Hayward for Turner Plus Revisited

[footey]

Good breakdown by Brian Robb where he weighs the pros/cons of consummating Sign and Trade of Hayward for Myles Turner plus maybe Dougie Buckets plus maybe some first round pick.

Robb basically concludes that, all considered, the Celtics were better off not doing that trade.
 
There was another thread on this topic a few months ago, so mods feel free to merge this in. I could not find it in the history.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2021/06/would-celtics-executing-myles-turner-trade-with-pacers-last-offseason-have-put-boston-in-a-better-spot-for-future.html

[Tr1boy]

Turner wouldn't have helped... he was injured for most of the year/playoffs

I'm not sure where is health is at, moving forward

Mcdermott probably helps a little/takes Fournier role. But is a UFA next season


End of the day, the trade wouldn't have mattered. Just like using the TPE to bring in Fournier didn't matter much

[Celtics4ever]

I think this trade could have helped if we got to use TT monies elsewhere.   Of course, Turner got hurt but if he had not and you used TT monies on a legit 4 or PG it would have helped.

[slamtheking]

I think this trade could have helped if we got to use TT monies elsewhere.   Of course, Turner got hurt but if he had not and you used TT monies on a legit 4 or PG it would have helped.

they covered in the article that "TT's money" wouldn't have been available to use.  The C's would have only had the taxpayer's MLE which was about 4 million less.

[Roy H.]

I think this trade could have helped if we got to use TT monies elsewhere.   Of course, Turner got hurt but if he had not and you used TT monies on a legit 4 or PG it would have helped.

Yeah.  Ideally we do the trade, and find a way to sign Millsap by adding a third year or something.

Turner / Timelord / Theis
Milsapp / (Tatum) / Williams
Brown / McDermott / Nesmith
Smart / Langford
Kemba / Teague / Pritchard

Of course, the entire thing turns on luck.  Does Turner stay healthy? Does Brown?  Does Kemba?

Does Indy still flop?  What are the protections on the pick?  Lottery protection would have hurt right now, but if it was only top 10 protected that #13 pick would be great.

[PhoSita]

Was it ever confirmed that Hayward would have gone to Indiana in a trade scenario instead of taking the huge contract from Charlotte?


Personally I never felt that Turner was worth the money.

[jambr380]

Was it ever confirmed that Hayward would have gone to Indiana in a trade scenario instead of taking the huge contract from Charlotte?

Personally I never felt that Turner was worth the money.

Nowhere that I've seen. It is fun to play the game of trading a FA in Hayward to a team offering the 3rd most money (behind CHA and us), but it really just is a game.

The deal was certainly intriguing - especially if it really did include a 1st - but this season still would have been a disaster with Covid/injuries. And we would now be headed for the repeater tax.

[Roy H.]

Was it ever confirmed that Hayward would have gone to Indiana in a trade scenario instead of taking the huge contract from Charlotte?

Personally I never felt that Turner was worth the money.

Nowhere that I've seen. It is fun to play the game of trading a FA in Hayward to a team offering the 3rd most money (behind CHA and us), but it really just is a game.

The deal was certainly intriguing - especially if it really did include a 1st - but this season still would have been a disaster with Covid/injuries. And we would now be headed for the repeater tax.

Why? 

Subtract Fournier and Thompson and we can fit Turner and McDermott.  We could have kept Theis over Kornet/Wagner, too.

[Vermont Green]

This has been mashed over pretty well but the article is a good summary.  I was not upset about how the Hayward deal went down.  In my mind, we got Thompson and maybe Teague instead.  Then we got a Fournier rental and we may get something else with the rest of the TPE.   I was and still am fine with that.  I never felt that Turner was all that good.  He would have been an improvement to our big rotation, he is better than Grant Williams, but I never understood all the fire Danny because he may have passed on Myles Turner (no one really knows what deal was on the table or whether Hayward wanted to go to Indiana).  And I still doubt that Indiana offered a first round pick, even heavily protected.  Why would they?

Some really criticized this non-trade, others I recall were critical that we let Hayward go in the first place.  I would rather have Fournier and Thompson for roughly $30M than Hayward, or at worst, it is a wash.  Hayward has durability issues.

Hayward
McDermott   Turner
Fournier       Thompson

Let's see what kind of money Fournier and McDermott get.  Thompson and Fournier may well end up being the best deal for us after all.

[Moranis]

His analysis only really works if the Celtics let Fournier walk this summer. 

[Roy H.]

One individual aspect of the trade that warrants discussion:  McDermott and four #2s, or Fournier plus the remainder of the TPE?

McDermott:  13.6 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.3 apg, .616 eFG%

Fournier (BOS): 13.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.3 apg, .576 eFG%

Obviously, Fournier was slowed by Covid.  However, it's interesting that the TPE was the prize of the Hayward trade, and the "throw in" in the proposed deal -- McDermott -- was equally productive as Fournier.

[nickagneta]

Let's remember, Kemba, Jaylen, Jayson and Smart all played with Turner on Team USA. If they didn't give Ainge rave reviews on Turner, Ainge wasn't going to want to pair him with those guys. I can't imagine they had great things to say about him because, based on some of the reporting, Ainge wasn't going to make the trade if Turner was involved and Pritchard wasn't going to make the trade unless Turner was involved. And then Hayward chose Charlotte, so the whole thing doesn't matter.

[Roy H.]

Too bad we couldn't do a Kemba + 1sts trade for Jrue, and then added Turner and McDermott.

Turner
Tatum
Brown
Smart
Jrue

The defensive versatility of that squad is amazing.  It's easy enough to build a quality bench, too.  Let's add Theis for T.J. McConnell into the original deal.  Sign Millsap by adding an extra year (player option). 

Turner / Timelord
Tatum / Millsap / Williams
Brown/ McDermott / Semi
Smart / Langford
Jrue / McConnell / Teague

[PhoSita]

Let's remember, Kemba, Jaylen, Jayson and Smart all played with Turner on Team USA. If they didn't give Ainge rave reviews on Turner, Ainge wasn't going to want to pair him with those guys. I can't imagine they had great things to say about him because, based on some of the reporting, Ainge wasn't going to make the trade if Turner was involved and Pritchard wasn't going to make the trade unless Turner was involved. And then Hayward chose Charlotte, so the whole thing doesn't matter.

Exactly this.

[td450]

This has been mashed over pretty well but the article is a good summary.  I was not upset about how the Hayward deal went down.  In my mind, we got Thompson and maybe Teague instead.  Then we got a Fournier rental and we may get something else with the rest of the TPE.   I was and still am fine with that.  I never felt that Turner was all that good.  He would have been an improvement to our big rotation, he is better than Grant Williams, but I never understood all the fire Danny because he may have passed on Myles Turner (no one really knows what deal was on the table or whether Hayward wanted to go to Indiana).  And I still doubt that Indiana offered a first round pick, even heavily protected.  Why would they?

Some really criticized this non-trade, others I recall were critical that we let Hayward go in the first place.  I would rather have Fournier and Thompson for roughly $30M than Hayward, or at worst, it is a wash.  Hayward has durability issues.

Hayward
McDermott   Turner
Fournier       Thompson

Let's see what kind of money Fournier and McDermott get.  Thompson and Fournier may well end up being the best deal for us after all.

I would agree that the only criticism I have or had was letting him go in the first place, and further back into resolving roles according to team priorities.

It seemed inevitable that Hayward wouldn't want to be a 4th option. Having three big two way wings that good was special. Hayward's constant injuries were a big problem, but they hadn't closed the door to anything. It was the core of a great team if it could come together properly, and it was worth playing out.