Author Topic: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas  (Read 4824 times)

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Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2021, 02:36:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

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"Celtics get: Kevin Love, Larry Nance Jr., Collin Sexton
Cavaliers get: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, 2021 first-round pick"

I saw this proposal on another site. It totally changes both teams but I'm not sure if either gets better and I would hate to see TIMELORD go!
we give up the 3 best players and a first?  was that the Cavs' site?
I've proposed something like Love and Sexton for Walker, Langford, 16.  I think that trade might have some legs and merit from both teams.  Potentially could send Walker to the Knicks, which makes even more sense.

BOS - Love, Sexton
NY - Walker, G. Williams
CLE - Knox, Langford, 16, 19

Boston would have to pay Sexton, which means a huge payroll for that 22-23 season until Love comes off the books, but that might be enough to avoid the tax this year and still keep Fournier.

I just think something like that has the chance to make Boston more cohesive next year and a lot better down the line if Sexton can learn how to reign it in a bit as he would have a chance to be a real legit 3rd star, plus Boston still keeps its two best young players in R. Williams and Nesmith as well as the veteran depth in Thompson, Smart, and Fournier.

Next year (bring back the 3 free agents, 1 open spot)

Smalls - Sexton, Pritchard, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Smart, Fournier, Nesmith
Swings - Tatum, Parker, Ojeleye
Bigs - Love, Williams, Thompson, Kornet

A lot of roster flexibility, where you can go bigger or smaller depending on matchups.  Generally a more talented team, and if Sexton can figure out, a chance to be a real contender when Tatum and Brown hit their apexes.

Collin Sexton is less of a passer than Kemba Walker, and he's not a defender either. While he is young and seems to be a more efficient scorer than Walker ever was, I don't see why we should continue to make the same mistakes over and over. We just don't need that type of point guard any more.
You upgrade the potential of the team whenever you can.  Boston has no real assets and no real way to add talent to the team.  That is a reasonable way to do it.  Maybe Sexton doesn't work out, but you have more time to figure it out.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2021, 08:59:44 PM »

Online slamtheking

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"Celtics get: Kevin Love, Larry Nance Jr., Collin Sexton
Cavaliers get: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, 2021 first-round pick"

I saw this proposal on another site. It totally changes both teams but I'm not sure if either gets better and I would hate to see TIMELORD go!
we give up the 3 best players and a first?  was that the Cavs' site?
I've proposed something like Love and Sexton for Walker, Langford, 16.  I think that trade might have some legs and merit from both teams.  Potentially could send Walker to the Knicks, which makes even more sense.

BOS - Love, Sexton
NY - Walker, G. Williams
CLE - Knox, Langford, 16, 19

Boston would have to pay Sexton, which means a huge payroll for that 22-23 season until Love comes off the books, but that might be enough to avoid the tax this year and still keep Fournier.

I just think something like that has the chance to make Boston more cohesive next year and a lot better down the line if Sexton can learn how to reign it in a bit as he would have a chance to be a real legit 3rd star, plus Boston still keeps its two best young players in R. Williams and Nesmith as well as the veteran depth in Thompson, Smart, and Fournier.

Next year (bring back the 3 free agents, 1 open spot)

Smalls - Sexton, Pritchard, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Smart, Fournier, Nesmith
Swings - Tatum, Parker, Ojeleye
Bigs - Love, Williams, Thompson, Kornet

A lot of roster flexibility, where you can go bigger or smaller depending on matchups.  Generally a more talented team, and if Sexton can figure out, a chance to be a real contender when Tatum and Brown hit their apexes.

Collin Sexton is less of a passer than Kemba Walker, and he's not a defender either. While he is young and seems to be a more efficient scorer than Walker ever was, I don't see why we should continue to make the same mistakes over and over. We just don't need that type of point guard any more.
You upgrade the potential of the team whenever you can.  Boston has no real assets and no real way to add talent to the team.  That is a reasonable way to do it.  Maybe Sexton doesn't work out, but you have more time to figure it out.
um, no, it's not.  that original deal stinks as does the one you're offering.  Love is toast in terms of being a reliable player and Sexton can only hope to become 80% of what Kemba became at his peak.  save the aggravation and just get to the conclusion Sexton isn't going to make this team any better.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2021, 12:59:29 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Kemba Walker could use the proverbial change of scenery. Reports indicate that he and the Celtics are headed for a mutual parting of ways, which is most likely to come via trade.

Unfortunately, Walker’s outsized contract – more than $73.6 million is owed to him over the next two years, and he will have a $37.6 million player option for 2022-23 – means that his suitors will be limited. But one NBA exec told A. Sherrod Blakely of the Boston Sports Journal that the New York Knicks are a possibility.

New York was involved in the rumors to sign Walker back in 2019, so they would’ve been willing to take the plunge on this kind of contract, anyway. Based on data from Spotrac, The Knicks have the NBA’s second-most “practical cap space” at more than $59.5 million, so they can certainly afford to absorb Walker’s deal for 1-2 years. Big man Julius Randle is the only other Knick that would imminently command a max contract.

As for matching the money, the Celtics and Knicks could find a way to figure that part out. The important part for Boston, in the first place, is that at least one team may be out there that is willing to take Walker and his contract off their hands.

Jaron May of 98.5 The Sports Hub mentioned the Knicks, but also the Dallas Mavericks and Oklahoma City Thunder, as potential trade partners for the Celtics and Walker in his Celtics Notebook on Monday.

I don't think the Celts will need to give up a 1st. Knicks were interested in signing Kemba in 2019

To Knicks:  Walker
To Celtics  2021 2nd round pick (32nd) and TPE

You should at least get to look at a couple of Knicks bench players for Kemba. Maybe Knox and Pelle?

Dont think you can obtain TPE with other players coming back

I guess can do separate deals. But Knicks roster looks empty next season

Just dumping Walker for a TPE seems extreme. He still has value.

Especially to a mid/low-tier team desperate to make the playoffs but not commit to a stupid Wiggins-type size/length deal. Candidates: New Orleans, Minny, Indiana, Orlando, Houston. Miami might even consider him - unlikely though.

I doubt NY does anything to annoy RJ Barrett, unless they talk to him and agree something.
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Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2021, 03:10:51 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Collin Sexton is less of a passer than Kemba Walker, and he's not a defender either. While he is young and seems to be a more efficient scorer than Walker ever was, I don't see why we should continue to make the same mistakes over and over. We just don't need that type of point guard any more.

Thank You. When will the Celtics figure out that a high-usage, score-first PG just does not fit this particular roster ?
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Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2021, 03:34:08 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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"Celtics get: Kevin Love, Larry Nance Jr., Collin Sexton
Cavaliers get: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, 2021 first-round pick"

I saw this proposal on another site. It totally changes both teams but I'm not sure if either gets better and I would hate to see TIMELORD go!
we give up the 3 best players and a first?  was that the Cavs' site?
I've proposed something like Love and Sexton for Walker, Langford, 16.  I think that trade might have some legs and merit from both teams.  Potentially could send Walker to the Knicks, which makes even more sense.

BOS - Love, Sexton
NY - Walker, G. Williams
CLE - Knox, Langford, 16, 19

Boston would have to pay Sexton, which means a huge payroll for that 22-23 season until Love comes off the books, but that might be enough to avoid the tax this year and still keep Fournier.

I just think something like that has the chance to make Boston more cohesive next year and a lot better down the line if Sexton can learn how to reign it in a bit as he would have a chance to be a real legit 3rd star, plus Boston still keeps its two best young players in R. Williams and Nesmith as well as the veteran depth in Thompson, Smart, and Fournier.

Next year (bring back the 3 free agents, 1 open spot)

Smalls - Sexton, Pritchard, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Smart, Fournier, Nesmith
Swings - Tatum, Parker, Ojeleye
Bigs - Love, Williams, Thompson, Kornet

A lot of roster flexibility, where you can go bigger or smaller depending on matchups.  Generally a more talented team, and if Sexton can figure out, a chance to be a real contender when Tatum and Brown hit their apexes.

Collin Sexton is less of a passer than Kemba Walker, and he's not a defender either. While he is young and seems to be a more efficient scorer than Walker ever was, I don't see why we should continue to make the same mistakes over and over. We just don't need that type of point guard any more.
You upgrade the potential of the team whenever you can.  Boston has no real assets and no real way to add talent to the team. That is a reasonable way to do it.  Maybe Sexton doesn't work out, but you have more time to figure it out.

How do you figure that?

Lets assume Tatum is untouchable. 

1. Jaylen Brown is a 24 year old All-Star with significant upside - guarantee he would have huge value throughout the league.  Entirely possible that there may be an opportunity to improve the team by moving Brown for a star with a skillset / play style that might better compliment Tatum.

2. Robert Williams is a young big who has flashed pretty significant potential, and I'm pretty confident that there would be a number of teams in the league who would value him pretty substantially.

3. Kemba is a proven All-Star calibre point guard who can score at a very high level, has high work ethic, and is a great locker room guy.  To the right teams I think his value is much higher then some people here speculate - even with the injury worries.

4. Pritchard has shown flashes of significant potential - not going to suggest he's a future star, but he looks to me like he could very well be a quality starter in this league for many years. He's also got great intangibles.  I would be surprised if he doesn't have decent value as a sweetner to a deal.

5. Tristan Thompson is a proven veteran with championship experience who plays a very focused role at a very high level - he's a solid defender with decent mobility and an elite rebounder who can also finish well around the rim.  Again, I think he has definite value to a lot of NBA teams who may see themselves as contenders in need of a piece or two. 

6.  Marcus Smart has unquestionable value as a defence/energy guy who can make a huge impact either as a starter or off the bench, and in the right situation could be the type of guy who puts a contending team over the top.   

7. Fournier is a quality scorer who's still pretty young, and could add value to a deal as a potential sign-and-trade candidate. 

Some people here also seem to insist Langford is a hot item - I beg to differ and think his going nowhere, but worth mentioning anyway. 

I think the Celtics are in a pretty nice place in terms of assets.  The team has talented young prospects that could appeal to upcoming teams, proven veterans that could appeal to contenders, scrubs on cheap deals that could be used for salary / roster spot filler, guys on mid-range contracts that could be used to make up salary for a big star move, guys who are All-Star or fringe All-Star talents. 

Tonnes of versatility there IMHO

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #65 on: June 18, 2021, 03:57:10 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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"Celtics get: Kevin Love, Larry Nance Jr., Collin Sexton
Cavaliers get: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, 2021 first-round pick"

I saw this proposal on another site. It totally changes both teams but I'm not sure if either gets better and I would hate to see TIMELORD go!
we give up the 3 best players and a first?  was that the Cavs' site?
I've proposed something like Love and Sexton for Walker, Langford, 16.  I think that trade might have some legs and merit from both teams.  Potentially could send Walker to the Knicks, which makes even more sense.

BOS - Love, Sexton
NY - Walker, G. Williams
CLE - Knox, Langford, 16, 19

Boston would have to pay Sexton, which means a huge payroll for that 22-23 season until Love comes off the books, but that might be enough to avoid the tax this year and still keep Fournier.

I just think something like that has the chance to make Boston more cohesive next year and a lot better down the line if Sexton can learn how to reign it in a bit as he would have a chance to be a real legit 3rd star, plus Boston still keeps its two best young players in R. Williams and Nesmith as well as the veteran depth in Thompson, Smart, and Fournier.

Next year (bring back the 3 free agents, 1 open spot)

Smalls - Sexton, Pritchard, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Smart, Fournier, Nesmith
Swings - Tatum, Parker, Ojeleye
Bigs - Love, Williams, Thompson, Kornet

A lot of roster flexibility, where you can go bigger or smaller depending on matchups.  Generally a more talented team, and if Sexton can figure out, a chance to be a real contender when Tatum and Brown hit their apexes.

I'm not a fan of that roster at all. 

Kevin Love is garbage right now (12 pts, 7 reb, 41% FG, atrocious defence) and the only way I see him having any value is if his contract gets bought out and he can be signed for a vet min as a backup big.  To make matters worse he creates a logjam at the center sport where we already have Williams and Thompson who need and deserve minutes.

Maybe he could be some use as a backup PF behind Tatum but at this point the thought of Kevin Love trying to defend the PF spot scares me a little. ..and that contract is so horrifying it makes Kemba look like a hot ticket. 

Sexton is zero upgrade over Kemba.  i'd suggest he's probably a downgrade to be honest (even with Kemba not 100%).

I would honestly rather have Kemba then Sexton and Love all day every day.  Just move Smart to the bench so we have a strong backup PG to help mitigate Kemba's health concerns and you're fine.

Smart, Ojeleye and Nesmith can all spend time at multiple positions. 

PG: Kemba, Smart, Pritchard
SG: Brown, Smart, Nesmith
SF: Fournier, Ojeleye, Nesmith
PF: Tatum, Parker, Ojeleye
C: Williams, Thompson, Kornet

I'd like a little more depth at the SG, SF and PF spots so you sign a couple of competent veteran free agents who can give you meaningful minutes at those spots and away you go.

I'd rather keep Kemba then give him away for nothing.  We're talking about Kemba Walker here - people are talking about him like he's Carsen Edwards on a $20M deal.  Even Derrick Rose has had value the llast couple of years, and his injury track record make's Kemba's look like child's play. 

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #66 on: June 18, 2021, 09:26:47 AM »

Offline Moranis

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"Celtics get: Kevin Love, Larry Nance Jr., Collin Sexton
Cavaliers get: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, 2021 first-round pick"

I saw this proposal on another site. It totally changes both teams but I'm not sure if either gets better and I would hate to see TIMELORD go!
we give up the 3 best players and a first?  was that the Cavs' site?
I've proposed something like Love and Sexton for Walker, Langford, 16.  I think that trade might have some legs and merit from both teams.  Potentially could send Walker to the Knicks, which makes even more sense.

BOS - Love, Sexton
NY - Walker, G. Williams
CLE - Knox, Langford, 16, 19

Boston would have to pay Sexton, which means a huge payroll for that 22-23 season until Love comes off the books, but that might be enough to avoid the tax this year and still keep Fournier.

I just think something like that has the chance to make Boston more cohesive next year and a lot better down the line if Sexton can learn how to reign it in a bit as he would have a chance to be a real legit 3rd star, plus Boston still keeps its two best young players in R. Williams and Nesmith as well as the veteran depth in Thompson, Smart, and Fournier.

Next year (bring back the 3 free agents, 1 open spot)

Smalls - Sexton, Pritchard, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Smart, Fournier, Nesmith
Swings - Tatum, Parker, Ojeleye
Bigs - Love, Williams, Thompson, Kornet

A lot of roster flexibility, where you can go bigger or smaller depending on matchups.  Generally a more talented team, and if Sexton can figure out, a chance to be a real contender when Tatum and Brown hit their apexes.

I'm not a fan of that roster at all. 

Kevin Love is garbage right now (12 pts, 7 reb, 41% FG, atrocious defence) and the only way I see him having any value is if his contract gets bought out and he can be signed for a vet min as a backup big.  To make matters worse he creates a logjam at the center sport where we already have Williams and Thompson who need and deserve minutes.

Maybe he could be some use as a backup PF behind Tatum but at this point the thought of Kevin Love trying to defend the PF spot scares me a little. ..and that contract is so horrifying it makes Kemba look like a hot ticket. 

Sexton is zero upgrade over Kemba.  i'd suggest he's probably a downgrade to be honest (even with Kemba not 100%).

I would honestly rather have Kemba then Sexton and Love all day every day.  Just move Smart to the bench so we have a strong backup PG to help mitigate Kemba's health concerns and you're fine.

Smart, Ojeleye and Nesmith can all spend time at multiple positions. 

PG: Kemba, Smart, Pritchard
SG: Brown, Smart, Nesmith
SF: Fournier, Ojeleye, Nesmith
PF: Tatum, Parker, Ojeleye
C: Williams, Thompson, Kornet

I'd like a little more depth at the SG, SF and PF spots so you sign a couple of competent veteran free agents who can give you meaningful minutes at those spots and away you go.

I'd rather keep Kemba then give him away for nothing.  We're talking about Kemba Walker here - people are talking about him like he's Carsen Edwards on a $20M deal.  Even Derrick Rose has had value the llast couple of years, and his injury track record make's Kemba's look like child's play.
One of these guys is 22 year old Colin Sexton's 3rd season and the other is Kemba Walker's absolute apex.

25.6 p, 5.9 a, 4.4 r, 1.2 s, 0.4 b, 2.6 t, 1.6 f, 49.4% 2P, 35.6% 3P, 84.4% FT (55.8 TS%)

24.3 p, 4.4 a, 3.1 r, 1.0 s, 0.2 b, 2.8 t, 2.6 f, 50.8% 2P, 37.1% 3P, 81.5% FT (57.3 TS%)

Again that is the absolute pre-injury apex for Walker vs. the 3rd year from a young player still years from his prime. 

This idea that Sexton won't continue to get better and won't be better than Walker going forward just doesn't seem like a position borne in reality as you could argue that Sexton is already better than Walker given his injury history.  Sexton certainly had a more efficient and better season last year and given he has improved every year while Walker is on the wrong side of 30 with a significant injury and injury history it just seems like betting on Sexton being better going forward is about as sure a thing as you will find.

Now I get Love is even more injury prone than Walker, but that trade is about acquiring a top 10 pick, that has performed well, and is still on his rookie contract.  Boston only has 2 players on the roster that could yield that sort of player in a trade without taking on a bad contract like Love.  If the goal is to actually win championships, then Boston has to make some pretty dramatic gambles because the squad as currently constructed is no where near contender status.  I have no idea if a trio of Tatum, Brown, and Sexton in a couple of seasons is a contender either, but it certainly has significantly better odds of getting there, then basically keeping the roster in tact.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #67 on: June 18, 2021, 09:29:30 AM »

Offline Moranis

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well I guess it is a moot point.  Walker traded to Thunder.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #68 on: June 18, 2021, 09:48:09 AM »

Offline boscel33

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well I guess it is a moot point.  Walker traded to Thunder.

Not quite moot, OKC was #3 in the list, except for a 2022 1st protected and we only got Al, nothing else.
While the early bird catches the worm, the second mouse gets the cheese!

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #69 on: June 18, 2021, 09:54:59 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

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3. Oklahoma City Thunder

Celtics receive: Al Horford

Mavericks receive: Kemba Walker, Celtics' 2022 first-round pick (lottery protected)

GM Brad did better than the suggestion nabbing Brown.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #70 on: June 18, 2021, 10:11:23 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Quote
3. Oklahoma City Thunder

Celtics receive: Al Horford

Mavericks receive: Kemba Walker, Celtics' 2022 first-round pick (lottery protected)

GM Brad did better than the suggestion nabbing Brown.

Also gave up a 1st this year and not next.  That might be beneficial as we are a young team and adding another into the mix may not be great.  We have JB, JT, PP, AN, and RL all under 25.  Now throw in RWill, Moses, and GWill, I can see the opportunity to give up the 1st.
While the early bird catches the worm, the second mouse gets the cheese!