Sources: Cs/Kemba want a breakup (other sources contradict)

[ozgod]

If the Kemba for Aldridge rumor is true (and there is no reason to believe it isn't), then the Spurs could have had Kemba and his salary for essentially nothing (since they bought out Aldridge at this full salary anyway) and they still said no.  Pops has great respect for Kemba .... and he still said no.

That says a lot about Kemba's value.

Kemba's value last offseason had to be million times worse than this offseason. He still had 3 years left on his contract and he was having stem cell injections to see if he could really ever effectively play again. Now we know that he was able to get through a season putting up his career averages (and only improving towards the end of the season) w/o any setbacks on that knee. And he only has two seasons left on his contract.

And contrary to what shaqattack said above me, Kemba's demise is seemingly greatly exaggerated. We have no reason to believe that Kemba can't be a very productive player - at least through the end of his contract, but probably beyond, as well. He maybe on the shorter side, but he makes players work for their baskets. I'd rather someone need to shoot over my defensive player than go around him every time.

Nobody rational is saying he's done.

They are saying he doesn't fit this roster. They say he is 31 and his game probably won't age well. They are saying no one will want to pay $36M for him, that it will be very tough to trade him. They are saying he is a 20 ppg scorer of mediocre efficiency and he doesn't do much else very well.

But... he can score 20 ppg for an NBA roster. We know he isn't done.

This is how NBA teams fail. Give out a max contract, then watch that player be a poor fit and a poor return on the resources allocated.

I guess I am just an idiot, but can you please explain to me why he is a bad fit? We were 3rd in the EC and went to the ECF last season after losing Kyrie, Horford, Morris, and Rozier. Kemba and Kanter were really the only replacements for those players. He is a legit 3rd scorer who provides a skillset our bigger wings do not have and cannot learn (speed/agility). He is an incredible, positive, uplifting individual and a great mentor for the younger players on this team. He also chose to come to Boston as a FA at a very rocky time in our franchise's recent history.

I get it, he gets paid a little too much and he was load managed coming back from an injury in a condensed season. But he is supposed to play in b2bs moving forward and will finally get a full offseason of rest. People are desperate to get him off the team, but I am not sure what the end goal is here. The trade options that are being thrown around by and large make us a worse team - why do we want to be worse? Like, people talk about the Clippers being a good fit for Kemba, but they are built around two all-star wings, just like we are. Why would they want him and not us?

Here's the problem that a lot of people miss. The caliber of player that most people want as a 3rd scorer next to the Jays tends to cost money. Especially if you want someone who can take over a game if the Jays are struggling but otherwise play a supporting role moving the ball or distributing. You don't find the Haywards or Horfords lying around for $20m because other teams are willing to pay them more. For $20m you get players like Smart or Fournier, who are good at certain things (Smart D, Fournier shooting) but are not good in other things. To a large extent the market dictates what a player's market value is and GMs have to decide if they are willing to overpay in some cases.

Also, those types of players that you want to fit in a third scorer tend to want bigger roles, especially if they know that other teams are willing to give them bigger roles. Hayward signed with us coming from a No.1 role in Utah, he thought by coming here he would still have a major role as a No.2 to IT who wasn't a big ball handler anyway. Instead he ended up being a No.4 which everyone thought he was overpaid for when he was here (remember the calls to trade him because he wasn't scoring 20+ ppg "like a max player should", but then everyone missed when he left. Same with Horford, you had all the "Average Al" monikers and the jokes about an All Star averaging 12ppg. At least those players were professional when they were here but they didn't want to be here, sure money was likely a factor but satisfaction with the team was also a factor. It's rare to find players of that caliber who are willing to play second fiddle to guys who (at the time) hadn't even made it yet in the NBA. The Ray Allen types who are willing to play within themselves and accept lesser roles to try to win, kind of like Harden is doing with the Nets, he's decided he's going to be the No3 guy behind KD and Cryrie.

So even if a player's skillset matches what the Jays need for support they may not actually want to fill that role of being a 3rd string. That's my concern about Porzingis...from all accounts he's not happy with having to be a support player to Luka, who actually passes the ball a lot more than either of the Jays do. How would he be a good fit here from a chemistry point of view, other than being a stretch 4?

Finally, isn't it odd that we seem to be running out of players to match the Jays with? Cryrie, Gordon, Al and now Kemba. We're running out of "good fits". Either they don't want to play with the Jays, or they aren't "good fits" because they are overpaid. Strange.

[RockinRyA]

If the Kemba for Aldridge rumor is true (and there is no reason to believe it isn't), then the Spurs could have had Kemba and his salary for essentially nothing (since they bought out Aldridge at this full salary anyway) and they still said no.  Pops has great respect for Kemba .... and he still said no.

That says a lot about Kemba's value.

Kemba's value last offseason had to be million times worse than this offseason. He still had 3 years left on his contract and he was having stem cell injections to see if he could really ever effectively play again. Now we know that he was able to get through a season putting up his career averages (and only improving towards the end of the season) w/o any setbacks on that knee. And he only has two seasons left on his contract.

And contrary to what shaqattack said above me, Kemba's demise is seemingly greatly exaggerated. We have no reason to believe that Kemba can't be a very productive player - at least through the end of his contract, but probably beyond, as well. He maybe on the shorter side, but he makes players work for their baskets. I'd rather someone need to shoot over my defensive player than go around him every time.

Nobody rational is saying he's done.

They are saying he doesn't fit this roster. They say he is 31 and his game probably won't age well. They are saying no one will want to pay $36M for him, that it will be very tough to trade him. They are saying he is a 20 ppg scorer of mediocre efficiency and he doesn't do much else very well.

But... he can score 20 ppg for an NBA roster. We know he isn't done.

This is how NBA teams fail. Give out a max contract, then watch that player be a poor fit and a poor return on the resources allocated.

I guess I am just an idiot, but can you please explain to me why he is a bad fit? We were 3rd in the EC and went to the ECF last season after losing Kyrie, Horford, Morris, and Rozier. Kemba and Kanter were really the only replacements for those players. He is a legit 3rd scorer who provides a skillset our bigger wings do not have and cannot learn (speed/agility). He is an incredible, positive, uplifting individual and a great mentor for the younger players on this team. He also chose to come to Boston as a FA at a very rocky time in our franchise's recent history.

I get it, he gets paid a little too much and he was load managed coming back from an injury in a condensed season. But he is supposed to play in b2bs moving forward and will finally get a full offseason of rest. People are desperate to get him off the team, but I am not sure what the end goal is here. The trade options that are being thrown around by and large make us a worse team - why do we want to be worse? Like, people talk about the Clippers being a good fit for Kemba, but they are built around two all-star wings, just like we are. Why would they want him and not us?

Here's the problem that a lot of people miss. The caliber of player that most people want as a 3rd scorer next to the Jays tends to cost money. Especially if you want someone who can take over a game if the Jays are struggling but otherwise play a supporting role moving the ball or distributing. You don't find the Haywards or Horfords lying around for $20m because other teams are willing to pay them more. For $20m you get players like Smart or Fournier, who are good at certain things (Smart D, Fournier shooting) but are not good in other things. To a large extent the market dictates what a player's market value is and GMs have to decide if they are willing to overpay in some cases.

Also, those types of players that you want to fit in a third scorer tend to want bigger roles, especially if they know that other teams are willing to give them bigger roles. Hayward signed with us coming from a No.1 role in Utah, he thought by coming here he would still have a major role as a No.2 to IT who wasn't a big ball handler anyway. Instead he ended up being a No.4 which everyone thought he was overpaid for when he was here (remember the calls to trade him because he wasn't scoring 20+ ppg "like a max player should", but then everyone missed when he left. Same with Horford, you had all the "Average Al" monikers and the jokes about an All Star averaging 12ppg. At least those players were professional when they were here but they didn't want to be here, sure money was likely a factor but satisfaction with the team was also a factor. It's rare to find players of that caliber who are willing to play second fiddle to guys who (at the time) hadn't even made it yet in the NBA. The Ray Allen types who are willing to play within themselves and accept lesser roles to try to win, kind of like Harden is doing with the Nets, he's decided he's going to be the No3 guy behind KD and Cryrie.

So even if a player's skillset matches what the Jays need for support they may not actually want to fill that role of being a 3rd string. That's my concern about Porzingis...from all accounts he's not happy with having to be a support player to Luka, who actually passes the ball a lot more than either of the Jays do. How would he be a good fit here from a chemistry point of view, other than being a stretch 4?

Finally, isn't it odd that we seem to be running out of players to match the Jays with? Cryrie, Gordon, Al and now Kemba. We're running out of "good fits". Either they don't want to play with the Jays, or they aren't "good fits" because they are overpaid. Strange.

TP totally agree with everything here.

[Somebody]

If the Kemba for Aldridge rumor is true (and there is no reason to believe it isn't), then the Spurs could have had Kemba and his salary for essentially nothing (since they bought out Aldridge at this full salary anyway) and they still said no.  Pops has great respect for Kemba .... and he still said no.

That says a lot about Kemba's value.

Kemba's value last offseason had to be million times worse than this offseason. He still had 3 years left on his contract and he was having stem cell injections to see if he could really ever effectively play again. Now we know that he was able to get through a season putting up his career averages (and only improving towards the end of the season) w/o any setbacks on that knee. And he only has two seasons left on his contract.

And contrary to what shaqattack said above me, Kemba's demise is seemingly greatly exaggerated. We have no reason to believe that Kemba can't be a very productive player - at least through the end of his contract, but probably beyond, as well. He maybe on the shorter side, but he makes players work for their baskets. I'd rather someone need to shoot over my defensive player than go around him every time.

Nobody rational is saying he's done.

They are saying he doesn't fit this roster. They say he is 31 and his game probably won't age well. They are saying no one will want to pay $36M for him, that it will be very tough to trade him. They are saying he is a 20 ppg scorer of mediocre efficiency and he doesn't do much else very well.

But... he can score 20 ppg for an NBA roster. We know he isn't done.

This is how NBA teams fail. Give out a max contract, then watch that player be a poor fit and a poor return on the resources allocated.

I guess I am just an idiot, but can you please explain to me why he is a bad fit? We were 3rd in the EC and went to the ECF last season after losing Kyrie, Horford, Morris, and Rozier. Kemba and Kanter were really the only replacements for those players. He is a legit 3rd scorer who provides a skillset our bigger wings do not have and cannot learn (speed/agility). He is an incredible, positive, uplifting individual and a great mentor for the younger players on this team. He also chose to come to Boston as a FA at a very rocky time in our franchise's recent history.

I get it, he gets paid a little too much and he was load managed coming back from an injury in a condensed season. But he is supposed to play in b2bs moving forward and will finally get a full offseason of rest. People are desperate to get him off the team, but I am not sure what the end goal is here. The trade options that are being thrown around by and large make us a worse team - why do we want to be worse? Like, people talk about the Clippers being a good fit for Kemba, but they are built around two all-star wings, just like we are. Why would they want him and not us?

Here's the problem that a lot of people miss. The caliber of player that most people want as a 3rd scorer next to the Jays tends to cost money. Especially if you want someone who can take over a game if the Jays are struggling but otherwise play a supporting role moving the ball or distributing. You don't find the Haywards or Horfords lying around for $20m because other teams are willing to pay them more. For $20m you get players like Smart or Fournier, who are good at certain things (Smart D, Fournier shooting) but are not good in other things. To a large extent the market dictates what a player's market value is and GMs have to decide if they are willing to overpay in some cases.

Also, those types of players that you want to fit in a third scorer tend to want bigger roles, especially if they know that other teams are willing to give them bigger roles. Hayward signed with us coming from a No.1 role in Utah, he thought by coming here he would still have a major role as a No.2 to IT who wasn't a big ball handler anyway. Instead he ended up being a No.4 which everyone thought he was overpaid for when he was here (remember the calls to trade him because he wasn't scoring 20+ ppg "like a max player should", but then everyone missed when he left. Same with Horford, you had all the "Average Al" monikers and the jokes about an All Star averaging 12ppg. At least those players were professional when they were here but they didn't want to be here, sure money was likely a factor but satisfaction with the team was also a factor. It's rare to find players of that caliber who are willing to play second fiddle to guys who (at the time) hadn't even made it yet in the NBA. The Ray Allen types who are willing to play within themselves and accept lesser roles to try to win, kind of like Harden is doing with the Nets, he's decided he's going to be the No3 guy behind KD and Cryrie.

So even if a player's skillset matches what the Jays need for support they may not actually want to fill that role of being a 3rd string. That's my concern about Porzingis...from all accounts he's not happy with having to be a support player to Luka, who actually passes the ball a lot more than either of the Jays do. How would he be a good fit here from a chemistry point of view, other than being a stretch 4?

Finally, isn't it odd that we seem to be running out of players to match the Jays with? Cryrie, Gordon, Al and now Kemba. We're running out of "good fits". Either they don't want to play with the Jays, or they aren't "good fits" because they are overpaid. Strange.

I mean anyone who pays Fournier 20 million would be saddled with a terrible deal going forward, and there are some really solid players who fit well next to on-ball stars like Brogdon are being paid 20ish million per year. Btw I thought that Horford was a top 10-15 player when he was with us while Hayward was a nice top 40-50 player in the '19-'20 season, those were players I was willing to pay big money in order to keep (maybe not 120/4 for Hayward, but I definitely felt that Horford's deal wasn't that bad even factoring in his age).

And is it only me who thinks that Kemba is a great fit next to the Jays? He gives us a guy who we can really run the offence through with his ability to strain defences in the PnR and his willingness and ability to play off-ball (contrary to popular opinion, his passing is really nice imo and he has shown flashes of being a pretty good extra passer as well, then you have his shooting and ability to move off the ball a bit) complements the Jays pretty well when the latter are on the ball.

[Vermont Green]

Finally, isn't it odd that we seem to be running out of players to match the Jays with? Cryrie, Gordon, Al and now Kemba. We're running out of "good fits". Either they don't want to play with the Jays, or they aren't "good fits" because they are overpaid. Strange.

There is a lot that you broke down but I am going to add to this point.  I don't think the issue is finding the fit that "matches" the J's.  I think the issue is finding the fit that matches the roster.  I don't see Kemba as a bad fit, just not the best fit.  Same with Hayward.

Our two building blocks (Brown and Tatum) are essentially wings.  Great, good teams need good wings.  We have two of the best young wings in the league, Tatum probably can say best wings, leaving off the "young" category.  So if you have a team that already has two really good wings, is the best thing to add Gordon Hayward, another wing?  Certainly not at $30M.  It makes no sense from a roster standpoint.

Now Kemba is a shoot first, combo point guard, not a wing.  From a roster standpoint, he does add something different but if you were constructing an ideal roster, would your third max contract you add to your two all star wings be a shoot first combo guard?  No.  Maybe pay $10M for a Kemba Walker type (or Lou Williams type) to come off the bench but that would not be where you go for your third max.

No, what you would do is what they did in Miami with Wade and LeBron, you find a big like Chris Bosh.  That would be the best use of your third max contract.  Not Kemba Walker and not Gordon Hayward.  And I don't think it matters that the two wings we have are Brown and Tatum.  It is not about them.  It is about the roster.

On Kyrie, from a basketball standpoint, I don't think he is a bad fit, he is just a bad fit on any team because he has become a head case.  Horford, a younger version of him, would be a great fit with two really good wings.  I don't think anyone ever said he wasn't, he left as a UFA.  I don't want Horford back now due to his age but find a younger version and that would be a just about ideal.

[Celtics4ever]

And is it only me who thinks that Kemba is a great fit next to the Jays? He gives us a guy who we can really run the offence through with his ability to strain defences in the PnR and his willingness and ability to play off-ball (contrary to popular opinion, his passing is really nice imo and he has shown flashes of being a pretty good extra passer as well, then you have his shooting and ability to move off the ball a bit) complements the Jays pretty well when the latter are on the ball.

He is an ok passer,  he is not good on D.   And his health makes him an unreliable contributor.  Does anyone worry about him getting worse with age?  I know I do. 

Courtesy of statmuse 

The Boston Celtics had a record of 22-21 with Kemba Walker this season.
The Boston Celtics had a record of 14-15 without Kemba Walker this season.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/celtics-record-when-kemba-plays-2021
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2021-celtics-record-without-kemba

So as one can see his play is really marginally in terms of W and L.  I think he is third best player on the team.   With him we have a puncher's chance to win because he can heat it up.  But long term, is he a championship caliber guard?  He is not a max player in terms of his ability anymore but a  good player.

I fear we are stuck with him.

[michigan adam]

To combine the last few posts and summarize, Kemba is fine on this roster.  Better than fine if he was healthy. The issue is he is not healthy, and it will be unlikely to get better.  Given that, I would much prefer Hortford to Kemba at this point despite his age, as he is a better roster fit, at a position that is harder to find.  A 1 for 1 trade of Kemba for Hortford with no more than 1 or 2 second round pick sweetners would be fine with me.  KP would also be acceptable, with a much higher risk reward dynamic, and a likely need to sweeten a little more from dallas point of view.  KP healthy would be a great roster fit for the C's at that PF/C  position, but health is a big rick with those skinny 7+fters.

[CBS_Take a Report]

If the Kemba for Aldridge rumor is true (and there is no reason to believe it isn't), then the Spurs could have had Kemba and his salary for essentially nothing (since they bought out Aldridge at this full salary anyway) and they still said no.  Pops has great respect for Kemba .... and he still said no.

That says a lot about Kemba's value.

Kemba's value last offseason had to be million times worse than this offseason. He still had 3 years left on his contract and he was having stem cell injections to see if he could really ever effectively play again. Now we know that he was able to get through a season putting up his career averages (and only improving towards the end of the season) w/o any setbacks on that knee. And he only has two seasons left on his contract.

And contrary to what shaqattack said above me, Kemba's demise is seemingly greatly exaggerated. We have no reason to believe that Kemba can't be a very productive player - at least through the end of his contract, but probably beyond, as well. He maybe on the shorter side, but he makes players work for their baskets. I'd rather someone need to shoot over my defensive player than go around him every time.

Nobody rational is saying he's done.

They are saying he doesn't fit this roster. They say he is 31 and his game probably won't age well. They are saying no one will want to pay $36M for him, that it will be very tough to trade him. They are saying he is a 20 ppg scorer of mediocre efficiency and he doesn't do much else very well.

But... he can score 20 ppg for an NBA roster. We know he isn't done.

This is how NBA teams fail. Give out a max contract, then watch that player be a poor fit and a poor return on the resources allocated.

I guess I am just an idiot, but can you please explain to me why he is a bad fit? We were 3rd in the EC and went to the ECF last season after losing Kyrie, Horford, Morris, and Rozier. Kemba and Kanter were really the only replacements for those players. He is a legit 3rd scorer who provides a skillset our bigger wings do not have and cannot learn (speed/agility). He is an incredible, positive, uplifting individual and a great mentor for the younger players on this team. He also chose to come to Boston as a FA at a very rocky time in our franchise's recent history.

I get it, he gets paid a little too much and he was load managed coming back from an injury in a condensed season. But he is supposed to play in b2bs moving forward and will finally get a full offseason of rest. People are desperate to get him off the team, but I am not sure what the end goal is here. The trade options that are being thrown around by and large make us a worse team - why do we want to be worse? Like, people talk about the Clippers being a good fit for Kemba, but they are built around two all-star wings, just like we are. Why would they want him and not us?

Here's the problem that a lot of people miss. The caliber of player that most people want as a 3rd scorer next to the Jays tends to cost money. Especially if you want someone who can take over a game if the Jays are struggling but otherwise play a supporting role moving the ball or distributing. You don't find the Haywards or Horfords lying around for $20m because other teams are willing to pay them more. For $20m you get players like Smart or Fournier, who are good at certain things (Smart D, Fournier shooting) but are not good in other things. To a large extent the market dictates what a player's market value is and GMs have to decide if they are willing to overpay in some cases.

Also, those types of players that you want to fit in a third scorer tend to want bigger roles, especially if they know that other teams are willing to give them bigger roles. Hayward signed with us coming from a No.1 role in Utah, he thought by coming here he would still have a major role as a No.2 to IT who wasn't a big ball handler anyway. Instead he ended up being a No.4 which everyone thought he was overpaid for when he was here (remember the calls to trade him because he wasn't scoring 20+ ppg "like a max player should", but then everyone missed when he left. Same with Horford, you had all the "Average Al" monikers and the jokes about an All Star averaging 12ppg. At least those players were professional when they were here but they didn't want to be here, sure money was likely a factor but satisfaction with the team was also a factor. It's rare to find players of that caliber who are willing to play second fiddle to guys who (at the time) hadn't even made it yet in the NBA. The Ray Allen types who are willing to play within themselves and accept lesser roles to try to win, kind of like Harden is doing with the Nets, he's decided he's going to be the No3 guy behind KD and Cryrie.

So even if a player's skillset matches what the Jays need for support they may not actually want to fill that role of being a 3rd string. That's my concern about Porzingis...from all accounts he's not happy with having to be a support player to Luka, who actually passes the ball a lot more than either of the Jays do. How would he be a good fit here from a chemistry point of view, other than being a stretch 4?

Finally, isn't it odd that we seem to be running out of players to match the Jays with? Cryrie, Gordon, Al and now Kemba. We're running out of "good fits". Either they don't want to play with the Jays, or they aren't "good fits" because they are overpaid. Strange.

I mean anyone who pays Fournier 20 million would be saddled with a terrible deal going forward, and there are some really solid players who fit well next to on-ball stars like Brogdon are being paid 20ish million per year. Btw I thought that Horford was a top 10-15 player when he was with us while Hayward was a nice top 40-50 player in the '19-'20 season, those were players I was willing to pay big money in order to keep (maybe not 120/4 for Hayward, but I definitely felt that Horford's deal wasn't that bad even factoring in his age).

And is it only me who thinks that Kemba is a great fit next to the Jays? He gives us a guy who we can really run the offence through with his ability to strain defences in the PnR and his willingness and ability to play off-ball (contrary to popular opinion, his passing is really nice imo and he has shown flashes of being a pretty good extra passer as well, then you have his shooting and ability to move off the ball a bit) complements the Jays pretty well when the latter are on the ball.

Isn’t the problem with this logic that we are at the cap? It’s either we sign Fournier to a deal in the $15-20m range and maintain a solid scoring/shooting option off the bench OR we don’t? There are two benefits to doing this:

1. We keep the scoring weapon.
2. We keep the trade asset which allows us to go over the cap and match salaries for a larger returning salary.

We will only have the TPEs ($11m being our largest which expires in November) and the mid-level (~$9.6). You aren’t getting Brogdon for either amount.

I could see us resigning Fournier to a team friendly 4/60m contract and attempting to trade for an expiring veteran point guard via the TPE ($11m). Someone like Rondo ($7.5m) or George Hull ($10ish). This would be back up for Kemba load management and Pritchard continuing to grow. It is actually what Jeff Teague was meant to do. 

[Moranis]

If the Kemba for Aldridge rumor is true (and there is no reason to believe it isn't), then the Spurs could have had Kemba and his salary for essentially nothing (since they bought out Aldridge at this full salary anyway) and they still said no.  Pops has great respect for Kemba .... and he still said no.

That says a lot about Kemba's value.

Kemba's value last offseason had to be million times worse than this offseason. He still had 3 years left on his contract and he was having stem cell injections to see if he could really ever effectively play again. Now we know that he was able to get through a season putting up his career averages (and only improving towards the end of the season) w/o any setbacks on that knee. And he only has two seasons left on his contract.

And contrary to what shaqattack said above me, Kemba's demise is seemingly greatly exaggerated. We have no reason to believe that Kemba can't be a very productive player - at least through the end of his contract, but probably beyond, as well. He maybe on the shorter side, but he makes players work for their baskets. I'd rather someone need to shoot over my defensive player than go around him every time.

Nobody rational is saying he's done.

They are saying he doesn't fit this roster. They say he is 31 and his game probably won't age well. They are saying no one will want to pay $36M for him, that it will be very tough to trade him. They are saying he is a 20 ppg scorer of mediocre efficiency and he doesn't do much else very well.

But... he can score 20 ppg for an NBA roster. We know he isn't done.

This is how NBA teams fail. Give out a max contract, then watch that player be a poor fit and a poor return on the resources allocated.

I guess I am just an idiot, but can you please explain to me why he is a bad fit? We were 3rd in the EC and went to the ECF last season after losing Kyrie, Horford, Morris, and Rozier. Kemba and Kanter were really the only replacements for those players. He is a legit 3rd scorer who provides a skillset our bigger wings do not have and cannot learn (speed/agility). He is an incredible, positive, uplifting individual and a great mentor for the younger players on this team. He also chose to come to Boston as a FA at a very rocky time in our franchise's recent history.

I get it, he gets paid a little too much and he was load managed coming back from an injury in a condensed season. But he is supposed to play in b2bs moving forward and will finally get a full offseason of rest. People are desperate to get him off the team, but I am not sure what the end goal is here. The trade options that are being thrown around by and large make us a worse team - why do we want to be worse? Like, people talk about the Clippers being a good fit for Kemba, but they are built around two all-star wings, just like we are. Why would they want him and not us?

Here's the problem that a lot of people miss. The caliber of player that most people want as a 3rd scorer next to the Jays tends to cost money. Especially if you want someone who can take over a game if the Jays are struggling but otherwise play a supporting role moving the ball or distributing. You don't find the Haywards or Horfords lying around for $20m because other teams are willing to pay them more. For $20m you get players like Smart or Fournier, who are good at certain things (Smart D, Fournier shooting) but are not good in other things. To a large extent the market dictates what a player's market value is and GMs have to decide if they are willing to overpay in some cases.

Also, those types of players that you want to fit in a third scorer tend to want bigger roles, especially if they know that other teams are willing to give them bigger roles. Hayward signed with us coming from a No.1 role in Utah, he thought by coming here he would still have a major role as a No.2 to IT who wasn't a big ball handler anyway. Instead he ended up being a No.4 which everyone thought he was overpaid for when he was here (remember the calls to trade him because he wasn't scoring 20+ ppg "like a max player should", but then everyone missed when he left. Same with Horford, you had all the "Average Al" monikers and the jokes about an All Star averaging 12ppg. At least those players were professional when they were here but they didn't want to be here, sure money was likely a factor but satisfaction with the team was also a factor. It's rare to find players of that caliber who are willing to play second fiddle to guys who (at the time) hadn't even made it yet in the NBA. The Ray Allen types who are willing to play within themselves and accept lesser roles to try to win, kind of like Harden is doing with the Nets, he's decided he's going to be the No3 guy behind KD and Cryrie.

So even if a player's skillset matches what the Jays need for support they may not actually want to fill that role of being a 3rd string. That's my concern about Porzingis...from all accounts he's not happy with having to be a support player to Luka, who actually passes the ball a lot more than either of the Jays do. How would he be a good fit here from a chemistry point of view, other than being a stretch 4?

Finally, isn't it odd that we seem to be running out of players to match the Jays with? Cryrie, Gordon, Al and now Kemba. We're running out of "good fits". Either they don't want to play with the Jays, or they aren't "good fits" because they are overpaid. Strange.

I mean anyone who pays Fournier 20 million would be saddled with a terrible deal going forward, and there are some really solid players who fit well next to on-ball stars like Brogdon are being paid 20ish million per year. Btw I thought that Horford was a top 10-15 player when he was with us while Hayward was a nice top 40-50 player in the '19-'20 season, those were players I was willing to pay big money in order to keep (maybe not 120/4 for Hayward, but I definitely felt that Horford's deal wasn't that bad even factoring in his age).

And is it only me who thinks that Kemba is a great fit next to the Jays? He gives us a guy who we can really run the offence through with his ability to strain defences in the PnR and his willingness and ability to play off-ball (contrary to popular opinion, his passing is really nice imo and he has shown flashes of being a pretty good extra passer as well, then you have his shooting and ability to move off the ball a bit) complements the Jays pretty well when the latter are on the ball.

Isn’t the problem with this logic that we are at the cap? It’s either we sign Fournier to a deal in the $15-20m range and maintain a solid scoring/shooting option off the bench OR we don’t? There are two benefits to doing this:

1. We keep the scoring weapon.
2. We keep the trade asset which allows us to go over the cap and match salaries for a larger returning salary.

We will only have the TPEs ($11m being our largest which expires in November) and the mid-level (~$9.6). You aren’t getting Brogdon for either amount.

I could see us resigning Fournier to a team friendly 4/60m contract and attempting to trade for an expiring veteran point guard via the TPE ($11m). Someone like Rondo ($7.5m) or George Hull ($10ish). This would be back up for Kemba load management and Pritchard continuing to grow. It is actually what Jeff Teague was meant to do.

I think Somebody's point was, the team could have gone after Brogdon instead of Walker that summer.  I know I wanted Brogdon.  I thought he was a better fit (better defender and better shooter), he was younger, and he was cheaper.  I don't know if Brogdon makes Boston a contender, but I think the team would have been better with him, even if he is a lesser player than Walker, just because he makes far more sense as an off the ball 3rd scorer and defender.  Sometimes a team is better when they downgrade the talent but upgrade the fit.  The Sixers are the perfect example of this as they have less talented players in the rotation this year, but the roster fits together much better and better plays to the strength of the Embiid/Simmons duo.  Boston should absolutely be looking to do that, especially if it can drop salary in the process and set the team up better long term.   

[td450]

To combine the last few posts and summarize, Kemba is fine on this roster.  Better than fine if he was healthy. The issue is he is not healthy, and it will be unlikely to get better.  Given that, I would much prefer Hortford to Kemba at this point despite his age, as he is a better roster fit, at a position that is harder to find.  A 1 for 1 trade of Kemba for Hortford with no more than 1 or 2 second round pick sweetners would be fine with me.  KP would also be acceptable, with a much higher risk reward dynamic, and a likely need to sweeten a little more from dallas point of view.  KP healthy would be a great roster fit for the C's at that PF/C  position, but health is a big rick with those skinny 7+fters.

He is not fine. He is not a $36M contributor. Again, he might work out better with a team constructed with Hayward and/or Horford, because those two players can do some of the things Kemba isn't that good at. But, unfortunately for C's fans, that particular job isn't so appealing. Making Kemba a scoring 3rd option meant Hayward wasn't. We lost Hayward because of this.

[CBS_Take a Report]

Agreed on Brogdon over Walker.

The Kemba signing came as a shock by most. At least to me it did.

This team isn’t that lost. And I can still see us extracting value from Kemba. I’d rather us focus on the positives than the negatives.

Behind the obvious positives (Tatum/Brown/a healthy Timelord):

1. Fournier didn’t have time to get comfortable in our system (15 games) and still averaged 15. He also had a little bit of FU attitude in the playoffs.

2. Kemba showed signs of getting healthy.

3. Pritchard showed signs he could be a legit spark plug and ball handler off the bench. He is a regular season rotation guy and this theory was proven.

4. Nesmith showed signs he could also be a rotation guy and with comfort could be an outside scoring scoring threat and a decent defender.

[CBS_Take a Report]

To combine the last few posts and summarize, Kemba is fine on this roster.  Better than fine if he was healthy. The issue is he is not healthy, and it will be unlikely to get better.  Given that, I would much prefer Hortford to Kemba at this point despite his age, as he is a better roster fit, at a position that is harder to find.  A 1 for 1 trade of Kemba for Hortford with no more than 1 or 2 second round pick sweetners would be fine with me.  KP would also be acceptable, with a much higher risk reward dynamic, and a likely need to sweeten a little more from dallas point of view.  KP healthy would be a great roster fit for the C's at that PF/C  position, but health is a big rick with those skinny 7+fters.

He is not fine. He is not a $36M contributor. Again, he might work out better with a team constructed with Hayward and/or Horford, because those two players can do some of the things Kemba isn't that good at. But, unfortunately for C's fans, that particular job isn't so appealing. Making Kemba a scoring 3rd option meant Hayward wasn't. We lost Hayward because of this.

Let’s just call a spade a spade. The Kemba signing was a bad move for a multitude of reasons including health, fit, prioritization in our offense, cap management, etc.

They are two different players for sure but why can’t Kemba be our Chris Paul? I mean look at the construct of the Suns who are in the WCF:

Chris Paul (can Kemba perform similarly? 16.4ppg/8.9 apg/vet leadership) not on apg
Devin Booker (slight edge to Booker with Jaylen Brown given his 2 way capabilities)
Mikal Bridges (Evan Fournier = similar player)
Jae Crowder (give me Jayson Tatum)
Deandre Ayton (could Timelord contribute similarly with health)

Bench:

Cameron Payne (Marcus Smart)
Jevon Carter (Nesmith/Langford)
Dario Saric/Frank Kaminsky (Tristan Thompson/Grant Williams)

I just donuts see us as far away from being a contending team as most do. Sure Brooklyn exposed us. But we were depleted of Brown/Timelord.

[Goldstar88]

To combine the last few posts and summarize, Kemba is fine on this roster.  Better than fine if he was healthy. The issue is he is not healthy, and it will be unlikely to get better.  Given that, I would much prefer Hortford to Kemba at this point despite his age, as he is a better roster fit, at a position that is harder to find.  A 1 for 1 trade of Kemba for Hortford with no more than 1 or 2 second round pick sweetners would be fine with me.  KP would also be acceptable, with a much higher risk reward dynamic, and a likely need to sweeten a little more from dallas point of view.  KP healthy would be a great roster fit for the C's at that PF/C  position, but health is a big rick with those skinny 7+fters.

He is not fine. He is not a $36M contributor. Again, he might work out better with a team constructed with Hayward and/or Horford, because those two players can do some of the things Kemba isn't that good at. But, unfortunately for C's fans, that particular job isn't so appealing. Making Kemba a scoring 3rd option meant Hayward wasn't. We lost Hayward because of this.

Let’s just call a spade a spade. The Kemba signing was a bad move for a multitude of reasons including health, fit, prioritization in our offense, cap management, etc.

They are two different players for sure but why can’t Kemba be our Chris Paul? I mean look at the construct of the Suns who are in the WCF:

Chris Paul (can Kemba perform similarly? 16.4ppg/8.9 apg/vet leadership) not on apg
Devin Booker (slight edge to Booker with Jaylen Brown given his 2 way capabilities)
Mikal Bridges (Evan Fournier = similar player)
Jae Crowder (give me Jayson Tatum)
Deandre Ayton (could Timelord contribute similarly with health)

Bench:

Cameron Payne (Marcus Smart)
Jevon Carter (Nesmith/Langford)
Dario Saric/Frank Kaminsky (Tristan Thompson/Grant Williams)

I just donuts see us as far away from being a contending team as most do. Sure Brooklyn exposed us. But we were depleted of Brown/Timelord.

Is that a serious question? 

[td450]

To combine the last few posts and summarize, Kemba is fine on this roster.  Better than fine if he was healthy. The issue is he is not healthy, and it will be unlikely to get better.  Given that, I would much prefer Hortford to Kemba at this point despite his age, as he is a better roster fit, at a position that is harder to find.  A 1 for 1 trade of Kemba for Hortford with no more than 1 or 2 second round pick sweetners would be fine with me.  KP would also be acceptable, with a much higher risk reward dynamic, and a likely need to sweeten a little more from dallas point of view.  KP healthy would be a great roster fit for the C's at that PF/C  position, but health is a big rick with those skinny 7+fters.

He is not fine. He is not a $36M contributor. Again, he might work out better with a team constructed with Hayward and/or Horford, because those two players can do some of the things Kemba isn't that good at. But, unfortunately for C's fans, that particular job isn't so appealing. Making Kemba a scoring 3rd option meant Hayward wasn't. We lost Hayward because of this.

Let’s just call a spade a spade. The Kemba signing was a bad move for a multitude of reasons including health, fit, prioritization in our offense, cap management, etc.

They are two different players for sure but why can’t Kemba be our Chris Paul? I mean look at the construct of the Suns who are in the WCF:

Chris Paul (can Kemba perform similarly? 16.4ppg/8.9 apg/vet leadership) not on apg
Devin Booker (slight edge to Booker with Jaylen Brown given his 2 way capabilities)
Mikal Bridges (Evan Fournier = similar player)
Jae Crowder (give me Jayson Tatum)
Deandre Ayton (could Timelord contribute similarly with health)

Bench:

Cameron Payne (Marcus Smart)
Jevon Carter (Nesmith/Langford)
Dario Saric/Frank Kaminsky (Tristan Thompson/Grant Williams)

I just donuts see us as far away from being a contending team as most do. Sure Brooklyn exposed us. But we were depleted of Brown/Timelord.

We could have overpaid to get Halliburton in the last draft

We could have overpaid to obtain Aaron Gordon.

We can still overpay to get Wagner, or perhaps Scotty Barnes.

Who cares about one extra draft pick at this point. How long do we get 5 points and 3 rebounds out of the power forward slot before we fix it?

I'm sure there are other examples of moves that were realistic to do. There are options to improving, but we have to do it at some point. We don't need stars. We need complementary players, and they are there to be had. Good players who can do more than one thing.

[Somebody]

If the Kemba for Aldridge rumor is true (and there is no reason to believe it isn't), then the Spurs could have had Kemba and his salary for essentially nothing (since they bought out Aldridge at this full salary anyway) and they still said no.  Pops has great respect for Kemba .... and he still said no.

That says a lot about Kemba's value.

Kemba's value last offseason had to be million times worse than this offseason. He still had 3 years left on his contract and he was having stem cell injections to see if he could really ever effectively play again. Now we know that he was able to get through a season putting up his career averages (and only improving towards the end of the season) w/o any setbacks on that knee. And he only has two seasons left on his contract.

And contrary to what shaqattack said above me, Kemba's demise is seemingly greatly exaggerated. We have no reason to believe that Kemba can't be a very productive player - at least through the end of his contract, but probably beyond, as well. He maybe on the shorter side, but he makes players work for their baskets. I'd rather someone need to shoot over my defensive player than go around him every time.

Nobody rational is saying he's done.

They are saying he doesn't fit this roster. They say he is 31 and his game probably won't age well. They are saying no one will want to pay $36M for him, that it will be very tough to trade him. They are saying he is a 20 ppg scorer of mediocre efficiency and he doesn't do much else very well.

But... he can score 20 ppg for an NBA roster. We know he isn't done.

This is how NBA teams fail. Give out a max contract, then watch that player be a poor fit and a poor return on the resources allocated.

I guess I am just an idiot, but can you please explain to me why he is a bad fit? We were 3rd in the EC and went to the ECF last season after losing Kyrie, Horford, Morris, and Rozier. Kemba and Kanter were really the only replacements for those players. He is a legit 3rd scorer who provides a skillset our bigger wings do not have and cannot learn (speed/agility). He is an incredible, positive, uplifting individual and a great mentor for the younger players on this team. He also chose to come to Boston as a FA at a very rocky time in our franchise's recent history.

I get it, he gets paid a little too much and he was load managed coming back from an injury in a condensed season. But he is supposed to play in b2bs moving forward and will finally get a full offseason of rest. People are desperate to get him off the team, but I am not sure what the end goal is here. The trade options that are being thrown around by and large make us a worse team - why do we want to be worse? Like, people talk about the Clippers being a good fit for Kemba, but they are built around two all-star wings, just like we are. Why would they want him and not us?

Here's the problem that a lot of people miss. The caliber of player that most people want as a 3rd scorer next to the Jays tends to cost money. Especially if you want someone who can take over a game if the Jays are struggling but otherwise play a supporting role moving the ball or distributing. You don't find the Haywards or Horfords lying around for $20m because other teams are willing to pay them more. For $20m you get players like Smart or Fournier, who are good at certain things (Smart D, Fournier shooting) but are not good in other things. To a large extent the market dictates what a player's market value is and GMs have to decide if they are willing to overpay in some cases.

Also, those types of players that you want to fit in a third scorer tend to want bigger roles, especially if they know that other teams are willing to give them bigger roles. Hayward signed with us coming from a No.1 role in Utah, he thought by coming here he would still have a major role as a No.2 to IT who wasn't a big ball handler anyway. Instead he ended up being a No.4 which everyone thought he was overpaid for when he was here (remember the calls to trade him because he wasn't scoring 20+ ppg "like a max player should", but then everyone missed when he left. Same with Horford, you had all the "Average Al" monikers and the jokes about an All Star averaging 12ppg. At least those players were professional when they were here but they didn't want to be here, sure money was likely a factor but satisfaction with the team was also a factor. It's rare to find players of that caliber who are willing to play second fiddle to guys who (at the time) hadn't even made it yet in the NBA. The Ray Allen types who are willing to play within themselves and accept lesser roles to try to win, kind of like Harden is doing with the Nets, he's decided he's going to be the No3 guy behind KD and Cryrie.

So even if a player's skillset matches what the Jays need for support they may not actually want to fill that role of being a 3rd string. That's my concern about Porzingis...from all accounts he's not happy with having to be a support player to Luka, who actually passes the ball a lot more than either of the Jays do. How would he be a good fit here from a chemistry point of view, other than being a stretch 4?

Finally, isn't it odd that we seem to be running out of players to match the Jays with? Cryrie, Gordon, Al and now Kemba. We're running out of "good fits". Either they don't want to play with the Jays, or they aren't "good fits" because they are overpaid. Strange.

I mean anyone who pays Fournier 20 million would be saddled with a terrible deal going forward, and there are some really solid players who fit well next to on-ball stars like Brogdon are being paid 20ish million per year. Btw I thought that Horford was a top 10-15 player when he was with us while Hayward was a nice top 40-50 player in the '19-'20 season, those were players I was willing to pay big money in order to keep (maybe not 120/4 for Hayward, but I definitely felt that Horford's deal wasn't that bad even factoring in his age).

And is it only me who thinks that Kemba is a great fit next to the Jays? He gives us a guy who we can really run the offence through with his ability to strain defences in the PnR and his willingness and ability to play off-ball (contrary to popular opinion, his passing is really nice imo and he has shown flashes of being a pretty good extra passer as well, then you have his shooting and ability to move off the ball a bit) complements the Jays pretty well when the latter are on the ball.

Isn’t the problem with this logic that we are at the cap? It’s either we sign Fournier to a deal in the $15-20m range and maintain a solid scoring/shooting option off the bench OR we don’t? There are two benefits to doing this:

1. We keep the scoring weapon.
2. We keep the trade asset which allows us to go over the cap and match salaries for a larger returning salary.

We will only have the TPEs ($11m being our largest which expires in November) and the mid-level (~$9.6). You aren’t getting Brogdon for either amount.

I could see us resigning Fournier to a team friendly 4/60m contract and attempting to trade for an expiring veteran point guard via the TPE ($11m). Someone like Rondo ($7.5m) or George Hull ($10ish). This would be back up for Kemba load management and Pritchard continuing to grow. It is actually what Jeff Teague was meant to do.

60/4 for Fournier is hardly team-friendly lol - quality sixth men are getting contracts like 50/4 (and I'd rate the sixth man I'm talking about as a considerably better player than Fournier). Also the equation isn't exactly like this because Wyc isn't Joe Lacob when it comes to paying the tax, it's more like:

1. Let Fournier go and lose a nice bench piece who's not exactly irreplaceable
2. Re-sign Fournier and end up dumping a bunch of salary because paying him 15-20 million would put us around that much above the tax line

Although to be fair I think Fournier isn't getting that kind of offer unless the Knicks get really desperate. A deal between the MLE and 13 million is what he'd probably get this free agency, which we should sign him for even though it'd put us 9-13 million over the tax in a world where our owner has never been willing to pay more than that, even in the big three era (yes profits have increased exponentially nowadays, but the new CBA has owners taking a less favourable cut of revenues and player salaries skyrocket compared to the old CBA when Wyc paid the tax).

[Somebody]

If the Kemba for Aldridge rumor is true (and there is no reason to believe it isn't), then the Spurs could have had Kemba and his salary for essentially nothing (since they bought out Aldridge at this full salary anyway) and they still said no.  Pops has great respect for Kemba .... and he still said no.

That says a lot about Kemba's value.

Kemba's value last offseason had to be million times worse than this offseason. He still had 3 years left on his contract and he was having stem cell injections to see if he could really ever effectively play again. Now we know that he was able to get through a season putting up his career averages (and only improving towards the end of the season) w/o any setbacks on that knee. And he only has two seasons left on his contract.

And contrary to what shaqattack said above me, Kemba's demise is seemingly greatly exaggerated. We have no reason to believe that Kemba can't be a very productive player - at least through the end of his contract, but probably beyond, as well. He maybe on the shorter side, but he makes players work for their baskets. I'd rather someone need to shoot over my defensive player than go around him every time.

Nobody rational is saying he's done.

They are saying he doesn't fit this roster. They say he is 31 and his game probably won't age well. They are saying no one will want to pay $36M for him, that it will be very tough to trade him. They are saying he is a 20 ppg scorer of mediocre efficiency and he doesn't do much else very well.

But... he can score 20 ppg for an NBA roster. We know he isn't done.

This is how NBA teams fail. Give out a max contract, then watch that player be a poor fit and a poor return on the resources allocated.

I guess I am just an idiot, but can you please explain to me why he is a bad fit? We were 3rd in the EC and went to the ECF last season after losing Kyrie, Horford, Morris, and Rozier. Kemba and Kanter were really the only replacements for those players. He is a legit 3rd scorer who provides a skillset our bigger wings do not have and cannot learn (speed/agility). He is an incredible, positive, uplifting individual and a great mentor for the younger players on this team. He also chose to come to Boston as a FA at a very rocky time in our franchise's recent history.

I get it, he gets paid a little too much and he was load managed coming back from an injury in a condensed season. But he is supposed to play in b2bs moving forward and will finally get a full offseason of rest. People are desperate to get him off the team, but I am not sure what the end goal is here. The trade options that are being thrown around by and large make us a worse team - why do we want to be worse? Like, people talk about the Clippers being a good fit for Kemba, but they are built around two all-star wings, just like we are. Why would they want him and not us?

Here's the problem that a lot of people miss. The caliber of player that most people want as a 3rd scorer next to the Jays tends to cost money. Especially if you want someone who can take over a game if the Jays are struggling but otherwise play a supporting role moving the ball or distributing. You don't find the Haywards or Horfords lying around for $20m because other teams are willing to pay them more. For $20m you get players like Smart or Fournier, who are good at certain things (Smart D, Fournier shooting) but are not good in other things. To a large extent the market dictates what a player's market value is and GMs have to decide if they are willing to overpay in some cases.

Also, those types of players that you want to fit in a third scorer tend to want bigger roles, especially if they know that other teams are willing to give them bigger roles. Hayward signed with us coming from a No.1 role in Utah, he thought by coming here he would still have a major role as a No.2 to IT who wasn't a big ball handler anyway. Instead he ended up being a No.4 which everyone thought he was overpaid for when he was here (remember the calls to trade him because he wasn't scoring 20+ ppg "like a max player should", but then everyone missed when he left. Same with Horford, you had all the "Average Al" monikers and the jokes about an All Star averaging 12ppg. At least those players were professional when they were here but they didn't want to be here, sure money was likely a factor but satisfaction with the team was also a factor. It's rare to find players of that caliber who are willing to play second fiddle to guys who (at the time) hadn't even made it yet in the NBA. The Ray Allen types who are willing to play within themselves and accept lesser roles to try to win, kind of like Harden is doing with the Nets, he's decided he's going to be the No3 guy behind KD and Cryrie.

So even if a player's skillset matches what the Jays need for support they may not actually want to fill that role of being a 3rd string. That's my concern about Porzingis...from all accounts he's not happy with having to be a support player to Luka, who actually passes the ball a lot more than either of the Jays do. How would he be a good fit here from a chemistry point of view, other than being a stretch 4?

Finally, isn't it odd that we seem to be running out of players to match the Jays with? Cryrie, Gordon, Al and now Kemba. We're running out of "good fits". Either they don't want to play with the Jays, or they aren't "good fits" because they are overpaid. Strange.

I mean anyone who pays Fournier 20 million would be saddled with a terrible deal going forward, and there are some really solid players who fit well next to on-ball stars like Brogdon are being paid 20ish million per year. Btw I thought that Horford was a top 10-15 player when he was with us while Hayward was a nice top 40-50 player in the '19-'20 season, those were players I was willing to pay big money in order to keep (maybe not 120/4 for Hayward, but I definitely felt that Horford's deal wasn't that bad even factoring in his age).

And is it only me who thinks that Kemba is a great fit next to the Jays? He gives us a guy who we can really run the offence through with his ability to strain defences in the PnR and his willingness and ability to play off-ball (contrary to popular opinion, his passing is really nice imo and he has shown flashes of being a pretty good extra passer as well, then you have his shooting and ability to move off the ball a bit) complements the Jays pretty well when the latter are on the ball.

Isn’t the problem with this logic that we are at the cap? It’s either we sign Fournier to a deal in the $15-20m range and maintain a solid scoring/shooting option off the bench OR we don’t? There are two benefits to doing this:

1. We keep the scoring weapon.
2. We keep the trade asset which allows us to go over the cap and match salaries for a larger returning salary.

We will only have the TPEs ($11m being our largest which expires in November) and the mid-level (~$9.6). You aren’t getting Brogdon for either amount.

I could see us resigning Fournier to a team friendly 4/60m contract and attempting to trade for an expiring veteran point guard via the TPE ($11m). Someone like Rondo ($7.5m) or George Hull ($10ish). This would be back up for Kemba load management and Pritchard continuing to grow. It is actually what Jeff Teague was meant to do.

I think Somebody's point was, the team could have gone after Brogdon instead of Walker that summer.  I know I wanted Brogdon.  I thought he was a better fit (better defender and better shooter), he was younger, and he was cheaper.  I don't know if Brogdon makes Boston a contender, but I think the team would have been better with him, even if he is a lesser player than Walker, just because he makes far more sense as an off the ball 3rd scorer and defender.  Sometimes a team is better when they downgrade the talent but upgrade the fit.  The Sixers are the perfect example of this as they have less talented players in the rotation this year, but the roster fits together much better and better plays to the strength of the Embiid/Simmons duo.  Boston should absolutely be looking to do that, especially if it can drop salary in the process and set the team up better long term.   

Not exactly (I was mainly talking about how you can get quality players for 20M like Brogdon and Smart), but yeah I wanted Brogdon that summer after learning the contract he signed with the Pacers for the reasons you outlined above (although I do think that a healthy Kemba gives us a higher ceiling than what Brogdon can give us in the short term).