Give me your top 18 players in the NBA

[gouki88]

Interesting lists, especially since we may run a 2020/21 fantasy draft. You guys are leaking your draft boards for the first couple of rounds.

Smokescreen time

[Kiorrik]

Kind of baffled people still have Lebron so high... this is for like next season right? He isn’t going to make an all nba team this season and next year will be another year older

17ths in points
8th in assists
33rd in rebounds

Yeahhhh, doesn't quite seem LeBron-like, does it?

[gouki88]

Kind of baffled people still have Lebron so high... this is for like next season right? He isn’t going to make an all nba team this season and next year will be another year older

He's still an incredibly potent offensive force. I think he'll be able to recover pretty well from his ankle injury, but if he doesn't and this is the LeBron we have now he'll certainly be down a rung or two.

However, he'll have his pick of veteran role players and you never know when some player will force their way to LA, so he could still flourish as a playmaking offensive engine

[Moranis]

Kind of baffled people still have Lebron so high... this is for like next season right? He isn’t going to make an all nba team this season and next year will be another year older

He's still an incredibly potent offensive force. I think he'll be able to recover pretty well from his ankle injury, but if he doesn't and this is the LeBron we have now he'll certainly be down a rung or two.

However, he'll have his pick of veteran role players and you never know when some player will force their way to LA, so he could still flourish as a playmaking offensive engine

He was also the front runner for MVP this year before his ankle injury.  The real question is whether or not you think he will recover from the ankle injury as he was obviously a different player the last couple of weeks.  Was that him just not being fully recovered or is that the new normal?  I, and many other obviously, believe he will look a lot different once he is fully recovered.  However, it certainly isn't unreasonable to think that given his miles and age that he won't recover from the injury and the player we saw towards the end of the year will be much closer to what James will be.  That player is still very good, but obviously is no where near a top 5 player in the world.

[Smartacus]

Here's my list. Fun exercise, added a couple of notes to explain the choices

- Kevin Durant
- Nikola Jokic             (Hard to have the MVP out of the top 3)
- Kawhi Leonard
- Steph Curry            (I'd like to put him lower but scoring champ kept him at 4)
- James Harden
- Luka Doncic            (Rose from Round 1 in the playoffs)
- Giannis Antetokoumpo
- Lebron James
- Joel Embiid             (Injury concerns kill him)
- Damian Lillard
- Jayson Tatum
- Trae Young             (Arguably the biggest riser)
- Paul George           (May finally be finding consistency in the playoffs)
- Devin Booker
- Kyrie Irving
- Bradley Beal
- Zion Williamson
- Donovan Mitchell

Notable Exceptions
Anthony Davis - Brittle health has knocked him down
Karl Anthony Towns- Right on the cusp. Second half of the season was encouraging.
Rudy Gobert - I am not convinced that if you put him on a different team he would automatically be as successful, it may be a strange criteria but I am sticking too it.
Bam Adebayo and Jimmy Butler - Heat need to show more consistency.
Ben Simmons - I am higher on him than most. Easily top 5 defender in the league.
Julius Randle - Knocked out by an abysmal first round of the Playoffs

Knocking on the Door
DeAndre Ayton - Absolute matchup nightmare. I remember a time where big men were given a few years to develop before being written off.
Ja Morant - Started heating up toward the end of the year.
Michael Porter Jr - Great mix of scoring instincts and natural talent.
Anthony Edwards and Lamelo Ball - Seem like unique players. 

Edit 1: Kyrie In Simmons out.
Edit 2: Added notable exceptions and knocking on the door section

[footey]

1. Nikola Jokic
2. Giannis Antetokoumpo
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. LeBron James
6. James Harden
7. Joel Embiid
8. Steph Curry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Damian Lillard
11. Jayson Tatum
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Anthony Davis
14. Bradley Beal
15. Jimmy Butler
16. Paul George
17. Donovan Mitchell
18. Devin Booker

Taking into account recent performance and injury history, hence why LeBron and AD are lower than they traditionally are

Great list. Only flaw is listing GA number 2 (he isn't top 5 based on playoff performances) and neglecting Trae Young, who deserves over Butler or George IMO.

[Somebody]

Tier 1:
1. Big Chungus
2. Stephen Curry
3. Kawhi Leonard
4. Kevin Durant
5. LeBron James (think he'll more or less return to his previous form, but obviously a year older)
6. Anthony Davis (taking his 2020 campaign)
7. Joel Embiid (massive scoring bump lifts him into the inner circle to me)
8. Giannis Antetokounmpo
Tier 2:
8. Luka Doncic (I think his shot has dialed in, which puts him above Harden to me)
9. James Harden
10. Damian Lillard (does a tier 2.5 exist? I think his defence puts him somewhat in between Doncic/Harden and tier 3)
Tier 3:
11. Paul George
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Karl-Anthony Towns
14. Zion Williamson (ranking him here due to his insanely rapid growth, this guy might just go full Bakuri in a year or two with defence and crack tier 1)
15. Jayson Tatum
16. Jimmy Butler
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Mike Conley

[nickagneta]

So KGLL mentioned he would get back to us about why he asked people to do this and why 18?

Did he ghost us on the reasoning behind all this?

[gouki88]

1. Nikola Jokic
2. Giannis Antetokoumpo
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. LeBron James
6. James Harden
7. Joel Embiid
8. Steph Curry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Damian Lillard
11. Jayson Tatum
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Anthony Davis
14. Bradley Beal
15. Jimmy Butler
16. Paul George
17. Donovan Mitchell
18. Devin Booker

Taking into account recent performance and injury history, hence why LeBron and AD are lower than they traditionally are

Great list. Only flaw is listing GA number 2 (he isn't top 5 based on playoff performances) and neglecting Trae Young, who deserves over Butler or George IMO.

I don't think it's fair to punish Giannis based on his playoff performances because for the most part I don't think they're bad. The only one he really struggled in was against Toronto when Kawhi and Siakam were going at him.

I don't think I'm neglecting Trae. He just happens to be the worst defensive player in the league, and he's also quite an inefficient scorer. 6 good playoff games does not make him better than PG or Butler

[PhoSita]

Giannis is really amazing in a lot of ways but what he hasn't shown so far is the ability to take over games and will his team to victory.

He seems like he ought to be able to go off and just become unstoppable for stretches.  He ought to be like Shaq and just overpower teams with his size, either getting layups and dunks or getting to the line over and over.

He doesn't seem to have that gear.


Until he proves otherwise I'm thinking of Giannis as a guy in the Anthony Davis tier.  A superstar who puts up the numbers and is a monster matchup but who can't really be the guy primarily responsible for carrying your team in tough spots.

[Jvalin]

Giannis is really amazing in a lot of ways but what he hasn't shown so far is the ability to take over games and will his team to victory.

Giannis is amazing in the open court. Problem is, most meaningful games are won in the half court. It ain't just the NBA playoffs. He can't even dominate in FIBA games against clearly inferior opponents. For instance, Brazil clogged the paint in the 2019 FIBA World Cup. Giannis fouled out while trying to force his way into the paint.

If the Bucks wanna maximize Giannis' impact, they'd better improve their 3P%. They shot 20% from 3 in game 1 and 29.6% in game 2. Still think they can pull an upset, especially if Harden comes back. To a large extent, Kyrie and Harden cancel each other out. They are both ball dominant guards who are below average defenders. Imo, the Nets are a more balanced team when one of them is sitting out.

[Ogaju]

Giannis is really amazing in a lot of ways but what he hasn't shown so far is the ability to take over games and will his team to victory.

Giannis is amazing in the open court. Problem is, most meaningful games are won in the half court. It ain't just the NBA playoffs. He can't even dominate in FIBA games against clearly inferior opponents. For instance, Brazil clogged the paint in the 2019 FIBA World Cup. Giannis fouled out while trying to force his way into the paint.

If the Bucks wanna maximize Giannis' impact, they'd better improve their 3P%. They shot 20% from 3 in game 1 and 29.6% in game 2. Still think they can pull an upset, especially if Harden comes back. To a large extent, Kyrie and Harden cancel each other out. They are both ball dominant guards who are below average defenders. Imo, the Nets are a more balanced team when one of them is sitting out.

lol so you think the nets are better with Harden on the bench and not playing at all?

Regarding Giannis in FIBA games, clearly FIBA refs do not give star calls like NBA refs.

[pearljammer10]

1. Nikola Jokic
2. Kevin Durant
3. Giannis Antetokoumpo
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. LeBron James
6. James Harden
7. Steph Curry
8. Luka Doncic
9. Damian Lillard
10. Joel Embiid
11. Jayson Tatum
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Donovan Mitchell
14. Kyrie Irving
15. Anthony Davis
16. Bradley Beal
17. Jimmy Butler
18. Paul George

[Somebody]

1. Nikola Jokic
2. Giannis Antetokoumpo
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. LeBron James
6. James Harden
7. Joel Embiid
8. Steph Curry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Damian Lillard
11. Jayson Tatum
12. Rudy Gobert
13. Anthony Davis
14. Bradley Beal
15. Jimmy Butler
16. Paul George
17. Donovan Mitchell
18. Devin Booker

Taking into account recent performance and injury history, hence why LeBron and AD are lower than they traditionally are

Great list. Only flaw is listing GA number 2 (he isn't top 5 based on playoff performances) and neglecting Trae Young, who deserves over Butler or George IMO.

I don't think it's fair to punish Giannis based on his playoff performances because for the most part I don't think they're bad. The only one he really struggled in was against Toronto when Kawhi and Siakam were going at him.

I don't think I'm neglecting Trae. He just happens to be the worst defensive player in the league, and he's also quite an inefficient scorer. 6 good playoff games does not make him better than PG or Butler

I mean he's struggled mightily against the Heat in both the '20 and '21 playoffs, and he'll probably have another meh series against Brooklyn now that they've figured him out with defensive legends Blake Griffin, Nicolas Claxton, Kevin Durant and Bruce Brown.

[Somebody]

Giannis is really amazing in a lot of ways but what he hasn't shown so far is the ability to take over games and will his team to victory.

Giannis is amazing in the open court. Problem is, most meaningful games are won in the half court. It ain't just the NBA playoffs. He can't even dominate in FIBA games against clearly inferior opponents. For instance, Brazil clogged the paint in the 2019 FIBA World Cup. Giannis fouled out while trying to force his way into the paint.

If the Bucks wanna maximize Giannis' impact, they'd better improve their 3P%. They shot 20% from 3 in game 1 and 29.6% in game 2. Still think they can pull an upset, especially if Harden comes back. To a large extent, Kyrie and Harden cancel each other out. They are both ball dominant guards who are below average defenders. Imo, the Nets are a more balanced team when one of them is sitting out.

Giannis reminds me of a poor man's David Robinson who can't scale down his attack on better and better teams without losing a ton of offensive value. People rightfully slam the Admiral's struggles against stronger defences with strong big men who can move their feet well (eg. Hakeem, Malone, etc) and waves of organised help that can swarm him, but they forget that Robinson killed teams with weaker defences during his prime (he eventually struggled against weaker defences in a primary role as he got older, eg. the 2000 playoffs when Duncan got injured, but prime Robinson didn't have such issues) in the playoffs. Granted Giannis has amazingly never faced a weak defence in his playoff career until this series against Brooklyn, but game 2 and the second half of game 1 indicate that it's possible for a team with average to solid defenders to shut him down even when he has a very good supporting cast around him (Robinson never had capable offensive weapons around him during his prime and was asked to shoulder an incredibly heavy offensive load that wasn't ideal for his skillset).