If Lillard is available. Would you trade what it takes to obtain him?

[gouki88]

Tatum is firmly untouchable. You can no longer go "Brown or Tatum" as if their value is equal, because it is not.

That said, we've sort of been over this in another thread. Most of the apprehension comes down to money. Lillard is set to earn basically double what Brown is on, and is a considerable amount older than Jaylen Brown. I doubt we'd be able to get Portland to take Kemba too, let alone with Portland sending us a 1st round pick.

Lillard has to demand out for Portland to even consider trading him, but given his contract length and the fact that they fired Stotts I believe they will try and move McCollum for something and see where that takes them next year.

I dont get this notion Tatum is on another level vs Brown

How is this conclusion made? Bc Tatum is more popular on sm?

They are both all stars.  General stats are close

Imo Brown is a better and more engaged defender.  Tatum a more natural shooter. Though Brown has really improved in this area also

Tatum's value league-wide is considerably higher. It doesn't matter whether fans don't see much of a difference there, it's just the reality of the matter.

Tatum is 18 months younger, better at scoring, passing and rebounding, bigger and has a bigger star profile. The difference on defence is negligible for me. Tatum is a better team defender, Brown is a better 1v1 defender.

I semi disagree. I get the perception part

But Brown is more explosive. Elite explosiveness.  Due to this, his ceiling is a tad higher ...as he keeps expanding his game (another leap this season).

Tatum may have the edge.  Perception or not. But is not next level better imo

I don't think just because he's got a slight edge athletically his ceiling is higher. Tatum just scored 50+ points 4 times in 2 months. That is up there with Jordan, Kobe and Harden in terms of volume scoring from the wing. Tatum has more 50 point games than Brown has 40 point games. That right there is the difference - the difference between All-Star calibre and All-NBA calibre offence.

I have never cared for these massive volume scoring performances tbh

Booker hit 70 against the Celts... and they lost the game.

Does this mean Booker is a more gifted scorer than most players in the league?

I place a higher value on triple doubles (or close to it) + scoring output

Ok we are getting sidetracked with Tatum vs Brown

So you wouldnt trade Brown for Lillard??

I would think about it if they are willing to eat Walker contract

Celts need another boost to make the finals

We won every game Tatum scored 50+... Also the emboldened values Tatum too, considering he's the better rebounder and passer.

I would consider it depending on what we do with Walker, but as others have said I think we need to build a big 3 to be competitive. We don't have two top-5 level talents like the Lakers did last season

[Muzzy66]

Tatum is firmly untouchable. You can no longer go "Brown or Tatum" as if their value is equal, because it is not.

That said, we've sort of been over this in another thread. Most of the apprehension comes down to money. Lillard is set to earn basically double what Brown is on, and is a considerable amount older than Jaylen Brown. I doubt we'd be able to get Portland to take Kemba too, let alone with Portland sending us a 1st round pick.

Lillard has to demand out for Portland to even consider trading him, but given his contract length and the fact that they fired Stotts I believe they will try and move McCollum for something and see where that takes them next year.

I dont get this notion Tatum is on another level vs Brown

How is this conclusion made? Bc Tatum is more popular on sm?

They are both all stars.  General stats are close

Imo Brown is a better and more engaged defender.  Tatum a more natural shooter. Though Brown has really improved in this area also

Because he is.

Tatum is a better passer, better ball handler, better scorer, more versatile scorer, has more defensive versatility/upside due to his length, and had consistently proven to be more clutch.

He's put up three 50 point games this season (including one 60) while Jaylen has none.

All this is true despite the fact that Brown is a year older and has been in the league a year longer.  Compare Tatum's level right now vs Brown's level at the same point in his career (last season) and they aren't even in the same stratosphere.

Finally Brown is also coming off a season ending injury, while Tatum is not - not a super worrying injury, but something to consider regardelss.

There are many Celtics fans who think Brown is on par with or better then Tatum.  They are the only people on earth who think it.  The clear consensus around the league and social media seems to be that Tatum is the superior player.

Now I'm not saying there guys are like superstar vs role player - they are both excellent players, and the gap between them isn't massive.  But the gap is there, and it's significant.as far as trade appeal Tatum is unquestionable going to be a level above Brown.

That being said my response to this trade offer would be yes if it's Brown, no if it's Tatum.  I can really only think of one guy I'd consider trad in Ng for Tatum right now and that's Luka Donkic.

[SHAQATTACK]

Yo...triboy ...give up the crack pipe 

Not trading Tatterman

[Big333223]

It's hard to imagine. Trading Brown means the C's have Dame and Kemba and one less big wing defender? But Portland has no use for Kemba, probably, because they've probably learned by now that McCollym+small pg doesn't work. So I'm not sure what the deal is that both teams like.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

The trade out there would be Walker and some young prospects, draft picks, and draft swaps.

The Clippers and Lakers (and other teams) would have interest in Walker come playoff time as another scorer. Clippers would love to have him over Morris and Beverly right now. Walker is still a good player. The Blazers can manage his health for a year and then trade him at the deadline for other prospects and draft picks.

This is well in line for any deal teams have gotten for star players lately, and I would argue it's probably a better deal than any other offers that would be out there.

The Celtics just can't trade Brown or Tatum right as they are coming into their prime. All that patience would have been for nothing. But I would give Walker, and three of Timelord, Pritchard, Nesmith, and Langford with the 5 year draft picks and swaps.

[pearljammer10]

You do this trade if Lillard is available and Brown is the output.

Brown, Walker, Nesmith, and 2 first-round picks.

Make Portland throw another rotational piece in that package so they can come off the bench with the C's.

Lillard PG, pick up a cheap SG, Tatum/Parker at SF/PF, Williams C.

Championship contender.

We'd have a lot of work to do in order to become a championship contender with that line up above.

A few points on this thread:

• Tatum is better than Brown. Period. There's no discussion to be had. His trade value is also high. This by no means makes Brown a bad player. He is also an All-Star, but Tatum has the IT All NBA potential.
• We don't have what it takes to get Dame and Dam probably won't be traded
• Kemba Walker is going to be one of the most difficult pieces to trade in the NBA. I'd rather see us try and move Kemba and to a third team somewhere and get Kevin Love in return (because Cleveland won't want him). If we are going to have money on the books, Love is a better fit and fills a better need

[/list]

[LilRip]

Trading Brown for Dame doesn’t get us closer to being a contender. Only if you could trade for Dame without giving up either of the Jays does this truly move the needle. That said, that’s not happening.

However, where the Blazers are is where this team is looking like it’s headed for in the future: 2 allstar type players (dame/CJ), an impressive role player or 2 (melo/nurkic), a generally weak supporting cast, incredibly entertaining, always a tough out, never really a serious contender.

If we run it back, this is who we’ll be. C’s either need to find a gem or take a risk sooner or later.

[gouki88]

Trading Brown for Dame doesn’t get us closer to being a contender. Only if you could trade for Dame without giving up either of the Jays does this truly move the needle. That said, that’s not happening.

However, where the Blazers are is where this team is looking like it’s headed for in the future: 2 allstar type players (dame/CJ), an impressive role player or 2 (melo/nurkic), a generally weak supporting cast, incredibly entertaining, always a tough out, never really a serious contender.

If we run it back, this is who we’ll be. C’s either need to find a gem or take a risk sooner or later.

Kemba and Smart are significantly better than Melo and post-injury Nurkic, and this team has more often than not progressed to the ECF, rather than getting bounced in the first round more often than not. I think that's a key difference.

Tatum and Brown are significantly less flawed than Lillard and McCollum too. Wings with above average positional size and length who play good defence are more suited to playoff basketball than small guards who are bad defenders. This is the other key difference IMO.

[LilRip]

Trading Brown for Dame doesn’t get us closer to being a contender. Only if you could trade for Dame without giving up either of the Jays does this truly move the needle. That said, that’s not happening.

However, where the Blazers are is where this team is looking like it’s headed for in the future: 2 allstar type players (dame/CJ), an impressive role player or 2 (melo/nurkic), a generally weak supporting cast, incredibly entertaining, always a tough out, never really a serious contender.

If we run it back, this is who we’ll be. C’s either need to find a gem or take a risk sooner or later.

Kemba and Smart are significantly better than Melo and post-injury Nurkic, and this team has more often than not progressed to the ECF, rather than getting bounced in the first round more often than not. I think that's a key difference.

Tatum and Brown are significantly less flawed than Lillard and McCollum too. Wings with above average positional size and length who play good defence are more suited to playoff basketball than small guards who are bad defenders. This is the other key difference IMO.

You mean during the time when we had Hayward and/or Horford?

The C’s had so much talent before, that’s undeniable. But between losing Horford for nothing, losing Hayward for nothing, losing Kyrie for nothing and essentially “trading” Rozier for current-day post-injury Kemba... we’ve been hemorrhaging talent.

Not saying those specific 3 guys would’ve been the answer today (or 3yrs from now) but my point is, having that level of talent wins. Underdogs rarely win in the NBA.

[gouki88]

Trading Brown for Dame doesn’t get us closer to being a contender. Only if you could trade for Dame without giving up either of the Jays does this truly move the needle. That said, that’s not happening.

However, where the Blazers are is where this team is looking like it’s headed for in the future: 2 allstar type players (dame/CJ), an impressive role player or 2 (melo/nurkic), a generally weak supporting cast, incredibly entertaining, always a tough out, never really a serious contender.

If we run it back, this is who we’ll be. C’s either need to find a gem or take a risk sooner or later.

Kemba and Smart are significantly better than Melo and post-injury Nurkic, and this team has more often than not progressed to the ECF, rather than getting bounced in the first round more often than not. I think that's a key difference.

Tatum and Brown are significantly less flawed than Lillard and McCollum too. Wings with above average positional size and length who play good defence are more suited to playoff basketball than small guards who are bad defenders. This is the other key difference IMO.

You mean during the time when we had Hayward and/or Horford?

The C’s had so much talent before, that’s undeniable. But between losing Horford for nothing, losing Hayward for nothing, losing Kyrie for nothing and essentially “trading” Rozier for current-day post-injury Kemba... we’ve been hemorrhaging talent.

Not saying those specific 3 guys would’ve been the answer today (or 3yrs from now) but my point is, having that level of talent wins. Underdogs rarely win in the NBA.

Which playoff series wins did Hayward contribute to? I’m not trying to say we’re not in a precarious situation, but I think it would take considerable mismanagement to end up like Portland

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Here is the trade I came up with

Clippers receive: Walker
Clippers trade: Kennard, Beverly
They get a rotation player for two non-playoff rotation players that can create some shots and take pressure off Leonard and George.

Blazers trade: Lillard
Blazers receive: Kennard, Beverly, Pritchard, Rob Williams, Langford, 21 1st, 22 swap, 23 1st, 24 swap, 25 1st
They get the full package of draft picks/swaps, an local college hero (Pritchard), one exciting young prospect (Rob), one solid young prospect (Langford), and a rotation guard that could be packaged for another deal or could just be a solid guard for a rebuild team.

Celtics trade: Walker, Pritchard, Rob Williams, Langford, 21 1st, 22 swap, 23 1st, 24 swap, 25 1st
Celtics receive: Lillard
This value is in line with the top end of what other teams have gotten for their stars. It leaves the Celtics with a rotation of Lillard-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Thompson with a bench of Grant Williams, Nesmith, Kornet (resigned).

I'd love to resign Fournier as well, but we are talking about 10-15 million over the luxury tax line, without any other players. I think this is a championship team, which makes it worth it.

I'd target Olynyk, Milsap, Reddick, Ariza, Matthews, Danny Green, Cody Zeller, etc for veteran role players.

[tenn_smoothie]

Enough of the score-first point guards.

When will we learn that these type of guards are not a good fit for our current roster ?

[Irish Stew]

You do this trade if Lillard is available and Brown is the output.

Brown, Walker, Nesmith, and 2 first-round picks.

Make Portland throw another rotational piece in that package so they can come off the bench with the C's.

Lillard PG, pick up a cheap SG, Tatum/Parker at SF/PF, Williams C.

Championship contender.

We'd have a lot of work to do in order to become a championship contender with that line up above.

A few points on this thread:

• Tatum is better than Brown. Period. There's no discussion to be had. His trade value is also high. This by no means makes Brown a bad player. He is also an All-Star, but Tatum has the IT All NBA potential.
• We don't have what it takes to get Dame and Dam probably won't be traded
• Kemba Walker is going to be one of the most difficult pieces to trade in the NBA. I'd rather see us try and move Kemba and to a third team somewhere and get Kevin Love in return (because Cleveland won't want him). If we are going to have money on the books, Love is a better fit and fills a better need

[/list]

Agree on all three of your points, so:

Brian Robb suggested Walker for Porzingis. Porzingis has one year more than Walker left on his contract.

No Lillard, so how about Sexton? Not as good, but certainly an upgrade for us.

[Tr1boy]

You do this trade if Lillard is available and Brown is the output.

Brown, Walker, Nesmith, and 2 first-round picks.

Make Portland throw another rotational piece in that package so they can come off the bench with the C's.

Lillard PG, pick up a cheap SG, Tatum/Parker at SF/PF, Williams C.

Championship contender.

We'd have a lot of work to do in order to become a championship contender with that line up above.

A few points on this thread:

• Tatum is better than Brown. Period. There's no discussion to be had. His trade value is also high. This by no means makes Brown a bad player. He is also an All-Star, but Tatum has the IT All NBA potential.
• We don't have what it takes to get Dame and Dam probably won't be traded
• Kemba Walker is going to be one of the most difficult pieces to trade in the NBA. I'd rather see us try and move Kemba and to a third team somewhere and get Kevin Love in return (because Cleveland won't want him). If we are going to have money on the books, Love is a better fit and fills a better need

[/list]

Brian Robb suggested Walker for Porzingis. Porzingis has one year more than Walker left on his contract.

I'm sold

[gouki88]

You do this trade if Lillard is available and Brown is the output.

Brown, Walker, Nesmith, and 2 first-round picks.

Make Portland throw another rotational piece in that package so they can come off the bench with the C's.

Lillard PG, pick up a cheap SG, Tatum/Parker at SF/PF, Williams C.

Championship contender.

We'd have a lot of work to do in order to become a championship contender with that line up above.

A few points on this thread:

• Tatum is better than Brown. Period. There's no discussion to be had. His trade value is also high. This by no means makes Brown a bad player. He is also an All-Star, but Tatum has the IT All NBA potential.
• We don't have what it takes to get Dame and Dam probably won't be traded
• Kemba Walker is going to be one of the most difficult pieces to trade in the NBA. I'd rather see us try and move Kemba and to a third team somewhere and get Kevin Love in return (because Cleveland won't want him). If we are going to have money on the books, Love is a better fit and fills a better need

[/list]

Brian Robb suggested Walker for Porzingis. Porzingis has one year more than Walker left on his contract.

I'm sold

Really? After what Porzingis just showed in the playoffs? He's worse than Kemba and more injury-prone!