Kyrie and Durant should be likable. Why aren’t they?

[perks-a-beast]

I remember a Mike Gorman interview where he was saying just how unfriendly of a person Kyrie is, and i wasnt the least bit shocked. He always struck me as a pseudo intellectual turd with a personality defect.

It doesn't surprise me that he and Durant gravitated towards eachother.

But Durant is someone i just feel bad for becasue he's clearly a very unhappy dude with self esteem and anger issues - just look at his DM's towards Michael Rappaport, or the burner social media accounts he's made to argue with teenagers, or the time he stone faced Peyton Manning for making a simple joke about him joining the Warriors at the ESPY's.

But i will agree, they both play an exqusitie game of basketball. True All-time greats.

[KG Living Legend]

Durant's a thin-skinned, rabbit-eared, petty person who didn't help himself by ditching OKC to go to GSW of all places.  Essentially, walking into championship the cheap way. 

Kyrie? Well, where do I even begin?

 Yeah, they have both hurt themselves many times, but Durant with how he acts online similar to a thirteen year old girl.

 I see what KGs knee us saying,  it appears that Kyrie  does care about humanity. It's just that everything is about him so it's hard to trust him.

[greg683x]

Kyries been pretty well covered here.

KD has always perplexed me.  Before he left OKC, I really viewed him as the kind of star the NBA should be modeling itself around.  When he originally resigned with OKC, instead of making a media spectacle of it, he just tweed that he resigned and that god is great.  A stark contrast to what Lebron has done.  Yeah him and Westbrook didnt get a long, but I mean, its Russell Westbrook.  He just seemed like an all around modest star for the most part.

Then he went to Golden State.  Ive never seen such a WWE like heel turn in a real sport like this ever.  Can anyone name anything remotely close???  I know some people will be quick to point out that Lebron was public enemy #1 when he went to Miami, but Lebron for the most part stayed who he was.  KD just seemed like the gloves came off and the whole charade was over, he just seemed to become the biggest jerk over night and not only did seem to not care about it, it looked like he embraced it.


A lot of people forget that Durant was VERY close to coming here.  I wonder how much his career trajectory and persona would be different if he came to boston

[celticsclay]

Contrast those two with Lebron.  Am I correct that that he’s generally perceived as less of a dink?

To most, I would agree.  However, the Clay Travis' of the world have been really pushing an anti-Lebron slant to a certain segment of society.

Yeah.  I think that LeBron is too reactionary in his politics sometimes, but I think his heart is probably in the right place.

I had really come around on Lebron a bit as a person as he entered the next stage of his career. However, it was hard to stomach his comments on China or his recent mistake posting the photo of the cop and potentially creating a very dangerous situation. On the flip side he has done a lot of geniunely good things for different communities.

[KG Living Legend]

 Here is the guy Cleveland drafted with our 8th pick Colin Sexton the PG we could have had instead of Kyrie Irvine.  He Elbows Durant in the face here looks like on purpose.

 https://youtu.be/Wsc8pLtZa3s

[PhoSita]

But Durant is someone i just feel bad for becasue he's clearly a very unhappy dude with self esteem and anger issues - just look at his DM's towards Michael Rappaport, or the burner social media accounts he's made to argue with teenagers, or the time he stone faced Peyton Manning for making a simple joke about him joining the Warriors at the ESPY's.

Right, I think more than the going to Golden State thing, the biggest factor in Durant being unlikable is that he's this super accomplished, incredibly talented superstar player.  Yet he seems to be deeply insecure.  When you get a glimpse of how he talks behind the scenes, he seems like a really petty and obnoxious person who can't handle criticism.

It's a really bad look on a person who has so much going right for him.

[Moranis]

Kyries been pretty well covered here.

KD has always perplexed me.  Before he left OKC, I really viewed him as the kind of star the NBA should be modeling itself around.  When he originally resigned with OKC, instead of making a media spectacle of it, he just tweed that he resigned and that god is great.  A stark contrast to what Lebron has done.  Yeah him and Westbrook didnt get a long, but I mean, its Russell Westbrook.  He just seemed like an all around modest star for the most part.

Then he went to Golden State.  Ive never seen such a WWE like heel turn in a real sport like this ever.  Can anyone name anything remotely close???  I know some people will be quick to point out that Lebron was public enemy #1 when he went to Miami, but Lebron for the most part stayed who he was.  KD just seemed like the gloves came off and the whole charade was over, he just seemed to become the biggest jerk over night and not only did seem to not care about it, it looked like he embraced it.


A lot of people forget that Durant was VERY close to coming here.  I wonder how much his career trajectory and persona would be different if he came to boston

I'd like to point out that James re-signed in Cleveland in much the same way Durant re-signed in Oklahoma City.  Contract wasn't as long, but they both made it past their rookie contracts.  Second free agency they both did it with a lot more fanfare.  Lebron with the tv show and Durant with him hosting teams out in the Hamptons. 

[action781]

What happened to these two?  I’m not sure if I am capable of articulating my points clearly here, but these two play some of the most beautiful basketball on the planet. Kyrie’s handle may be unrivaled, and Durant is the modern prototype for what a player should do on the court. 

And yet off the court, they are paranoid, surly, and quite frankly, dumb.  Perhaps it is recency bias, but I cannot remember a time when an All-NBA level player had such a stark contrast between his skillset / the beauty of his game and his personality.

Is it just social media that amplifies the stuff?  If Larry and magic played today, what media and social media pick a part all of their faults until they were hated?

(And no, guys like Iverson and Starbury don’t count for me. Neither played a particularly efficient or beautiful style of basketball.  KG is close, but his game and persona seemed to be perfectly congruent.)

When he was in the same age range as Kyrie, Kobe was just as unlikable.  He had a beautiful game, but in addition to the off-court issues, people thought he was a selfish hungo.  Then when he was questioned about that he went the opposite way and quit on his team, including in a freaking playoff game 7.  Then there's the drama with Shaq too.  IMO, the level of diva Kobe displayed especially earlier in his career probably surpassed that of Kyrie and Durant.

Maybe it's just immaturity and Kyrie & Durant will mature over the later years of their careers.

[Ilikesports17]

Contrast those two with Lebron.  Am I correct that that he’s generally perceived as less of a dink?

To most, I would agree.  However, the Clay Travis' of the world have been really pushing an anti-Lebron slant to a certain segment of society.

Yeah.  I think that LeBron is too reactionary in his politics sometimes, but I think his heart is probably in the right place.

I think that is a big difference.  Lebron is genuinely a good person whose heart is the right place.  He legitimately cares about his community and does so much good not only because he can but mostly because he really does want to give back and help those who came from where he came from but without the super human athletic gifts. 

To me, the bigger difference though is Lebron isn't a phoney.  He isn't a fake.  He is who he is.  Sure he crafts his image, but he doesn't create fake twitter accounts to argue with people.  He doesn't pontificate about things he knows little about to make sure everyone knows he is smart.  He is quite simply real.  That isn't Durant or Irving.  They are as phoney and fake as they came.  Durant, in particular, created this public image that is the exact opposite of who he actually is.  You could see it in Oklahoma City, but it only amplified in Golden State and has reached epic levels in Brooklyn.  Irving is really really odd, which I don't think makes him be all that likeable.  Couple that with how many times he has quit on his teams, including earlier this year, and he is just hard to like.  He isn't that eccentric uncle that everyone likes, he is the eccentric uncle that lives down the street in the run down house that just scares people.

It seems to me the Lebron take here started with I like lebron and worked backwards to figure out why.

Lebron has spent plenty of time talking about things he knows little about.

Lebron clearly wants to appear like a wise intellectual. The evidence there is his history of reading books in front of the camera at every opportunity and always being on the first page or when he bragged about how valuable reading Malcom X’s biography only to reveal through very light questioning that he hasn’t the faintest clue what was in the book.

All that said, Lebron’s manufactured wise man image just makes me laugh while Kyries self important word salads make me sick. Not sure why the difference.

[Kernewek]

Contrast those two with Lebron.  Am I correct that that he’s generally perceived as less of a dink?

To most, I would agree.  However, the Clay Travis' of the world have been really pushing an anti-Lebron slant to a certain segment of society.

Yeah.  I think that LeBron is too reactionary in his politics sometimes, but I think his heart is probably in the right place.

I think that is a big difference.  Lebron is genuinely a good person whose heart is the right place.  He legitimately cares about his community and does so much good not only because he can but mostly because he really does want to give back and help those who came from where he came from but without the super human athletic gifts. 

To me, the bigger difference though is Lebron isn't a phoney.  He isn't a fake.  He is who he is.  Sure he crafts his image, but he doesn't create fake twitter accounts to argue with people.  He doesn't pontificate about things he knows little about to make sure everyone knows he is smart.  He is quite simply real.  That isn't Durant or Irving.  They are as phoney and fake as they came.  Durant, in particular, created this public image that is the exact opposite of who he actually is.  You could see it in Oklahoma City, but it only amplified in Golden State and has reached epic levels in Brooklyn.  Irving is really really odd, which I don't think makes him be all that likeable.  Couple that with how many times he has quit on his teams, including earlier this year, and he is just hard to like.  He isn't that eccentric uncle that everyone likes, he is the eccentric uncle that lives down the street in the run down house that just scares people.

It seems to me the Lebron take here started with I like lebron and worked backwards to figure out why.

Lebron has spent plenty of time talking about things he knows little about.

Lebron clearly wants to appear like a wise intellectual. The evidence there is his history of reading books in front of the camera at every opportunity and always being on the first page or when he bragged about how valuable reading Malcom X’s biography only to reveal through very light questioning that he hasn’t the faintest clue what was in the book.

All that said, Lebron’s manufactured wise man image just makes me laugh while Kyries self important word salads make me sick. Not sure why the difference.

I can't read this post without thinking of the late Bill Hicks -  "Hey, whatcha readin' for"?

[Moranis]

Didn't want to create a new thread, but this article I think goes a long way in establishing why Lebron is generally more well liked than KD and Kyrie.  This is the type of thing he consistently does for at risk youth and as the article indicates he set up that program 10 years ago and has only expanded it and made it better.  Akron even established an actual school a few years back, which provides all kinds of services to families including housing for those at risk of homelessness.  To have that level of involvement and with a huge financial investment says a lot about who Lebron actually is as a person.  He genuinely cares.  I just don't get that impression from KD or Kyrie (or countless other players).

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2021/06/02/akron-schools-kids-lebron-james-i-promise-program-graduate-look-future-class-2021-graduation-rate/5189153001/?fbclid=IwAR2U_GXoBlRba9Vexe1qyiIXhwiziA2fOqNYI_JO-UTdDQ61mitxn1pwuuQ

[PhoSita]

One of the hosts on the Celtics reddit podcast put it really well:

Kyrie is a great, great basketball player.  He's extremely talented. 

He's not an honorable person.  You wouldn't want your friends, your family, or your co-workers to carry themselves or act like Kyrie does.  Hopefully, you wouldn't want to embody the kind of persona that Kyrie puts out for public consumption.

I think the same applies to KD. 

They are both really great basketball players.  But there's something lacking in who they are as people that makes it difficult to want to see them succeed.


I know that the counterargument would be something like -- we all loved Pierce, right?  Well, Pierce is not exactly a saint.  Same for Kevin Garnett.  He's a trash talking maniac.  But there's something about those guys, which I can't describe any other way than "charisma," that makes you want to follow them, to have them on your side. 

I think Kyrie and KD both lack that.  I also think there's a certain sullen, sulky pride to both Kyrie and KD, like they know they lack that charisma but they resent the fact that fans don't love them more, because they think their prowess on the court should be enough.  But it isn't, and it won't ever be.

[Who]

Kyrie Irving - he is a horse's ass. His game is entirely individualistic with little to no teamwork based contributions (it is a team sport). He frequently ignores his coaches ever since his rookie season. He doesn't treat his teammates well. He desires limelight / positive media attention but doesn't want the pressures / negative attention that come with it. He is "good times" sort of player who is only around and helps your team when things are rolling but quits when things are not going his way. Then throw in his bad media relations in which he comes across very poorly. Lot of bad things across the board.

Kevin Durant - KD is more simple. Nobody likes a sell out. Nobody likes someone who looks for the short cut to success. It is like a queue skipper. Everybody was working hard to reach their goal as have superstars before them. Then KD skips the queue and joins a 73 win team. A league MVP joining a 73 win team! He was respected before this. He was not respected after this. That simple. He is queue skipper. He did not do the work. This is similar to cheating - adjacent to cheating. It is ugly. Unpleasant. Perhaps even disgusting.

[PhoSita]

Kevin Durant - KD is more simple. Nobody likes a sell out. Nobody likes someone who looks for the short cut to success. It is like a queue skipper. Everybody was working hard to reach their goal as have superstars before them. Then KD skips the queue and joins a 73 win team. A league MVP joining a 73 win team! He was respected before this. He was not respected after this. That simple. He is queue skipper. He did not do the work. This is similar to cheating - adjacent to cheating. It is ugly. Unpleasant. Perhaps even disgusting.

The other thing is that KD has been revealed to be kind of petty / thin skinned / juvenile off the court, between his burner accounts and the way he goes back and forth with people in DMs that later become public.

KD seems to be weirdly very insecure and obnoxious to deal with on a personal level despite his success. It seems like he's probably rather quiet and laid back in person, but the way he acts online / over text etc shows some of what he's like underneath.  Passive aggressive.  Petulant.  Vindictive.


It's amazing because I remember when he was compared to Tim Duncan.

[gouki88]

Kevin Durant - KD is more simple. Nobody likes a sell out. Nobody likes someone who looks for the short cut to success. It is like a queue skipper. Everybody was working hard to reach their goal as have superstars before them. Then KD skips the queue and joins a 73 win team. A league MVP joining a 73 win team! He was respected before this. He was not respected after this. That simple. He is queue skipper. He did not do the work. This is similar to cheating - adjacent to cheating. It is ugly. Unpleasant. Perhaps even disgusting.

The other thing is that KD has been revealed to be kind of petty / thin skinned / juvenile off the court, between his burner accounts and the way he goes back and forth with people in DMs that later become public.

KD seems to be weirdly very insecure and obnoxious to deal with on a personal level despite his success. It seems like he's probably rather quiet and laid back in person, but the way he acts online / over text etc shows some of what he's like underneath.  Passive aggressive.  Petulant.  Vindictive.


It's amazing because I remember when he was compared to Tim Duncan.

Imagine if Tim Duncan had joined the '08 Lakers and started fighting with teenagers online.