The Chris Paul Effect

[RJ87]

We should have traded Kemba for CP3. A 3-way with the Knicks would have been a nice deal for all teams involved.

Celtics in: CP3
Knicks in: Kemba
Thunder in: Randle + pick(s) + filler(s)

We should have traded for all of the players. We should have traded for all of the draft picks in this year's draft. We should have signed all of the free agents.

[Somebody]

Think you mean “The Effect of Riding the Bubble-Suns Coattails”

It is very impressive though, I thought he was done when he had those hamstring injuries in Houston. Keeps changing his game to adjust to his declining athleticism. Reminds me of how D-Wade aged

Didn't Wade fall off a cliff after knee issues in 2013? Don't get me wrong, he still had a couple All-Star level seasons after that, but he wasn't aging like fine wine in his twilight years.

[Somebody]

How many Championships has he won?  How many finals has he made?

As much as I hated CP3, he made every team he went to into a playoff contenders. They were 1 game away from beating the Warriors in 2017. Thunder wasn't even suppose to make the playoffs last year and they almost made the second round.

People were just nuts on the Thunder not being a playoff contender last year - they had a collection of good role players in Shroeder, Gallo, Adams and SGA (SGA took a leap that season, but he was a decent role player for the Clippers in his rookie season) surrounding an All-Star/All-NBAish guard in CP3. It was impressive, but let's not make it sound like it was a LeBronian effort.

[gouki88]

How many Championships has he won?  How many finals has he made?

Pretending you need to have rings in order to positively impact winning is false and weird.

[gouki88]

Think you mean “The Effect of Riding the Bubble-Suns Coattails”

It is very impressive though, I thought he was done when he had those hamstring injuries in Houston. Keeps changing his game to adjust to his declining athleticism. Reminds me of how D-Wade aged

Didn't Wade fall off a cliff after knee issues in 2013? Don't get me wrong, he still had a couple All-Star level seasons after that, but he wasn't aging like fine wine in his twilight years.

I think when you look at guys of his era, like Melo (toast by 33), Baron Davis (retired by 33), Joe Johnson (toast by 33) and Deron Williams (toast by 30) among others to Wade (borderline All-Star at 35 - I'm disregarding his final AS appearance), it paints a pretty nice picture of how he aged. Obviously freaks like LBJ and Chris Paul have sort of distorted how ageing looks, but I think D-Wade was still a useful player even at 37

[RodyTur10]

I don't think Chris Paul has had that huge effect this time. Phoenix was a talented team that just needed to mature.
During the bubble the signs were already there going 8-0. I expect the Suns to make the playoffs, the question is whether Paul/Booker can be that elite backcourt to guide them to the Conference Finals.

[Goldstar88]

CP3 is turning 36 next month and he is still playing at an incredibly high level. Phoenix beat Utah last night and Paul had 29pts, 12ast, and 4reb while shooting 12-24 from the field and 3-7 from 3pt. Highest +/- on either team.

Suns are now only 2 games out of first in the West and they have the 2nd best record in all of basketball. Without him, I don’t see the Suns being any better than a 7-8 seed. Chris Paul should be getting serious Consideration for MVP.

[gouki88]

CP3 is turning 36 next month and he is still playing at an incredibly high level. Phoenix beat Utah last night and Paul had 29pts, 12ast, and 4reb while shooting 12-24 from the field and 3-7 from 3pt. Highest +/- on either team.

Suns are now only 2 games out of first in the West and they have the 2nd best record in all of basketball. Without him, I don’t see the Suns being any better than a 7-8 seed. Chris Paul should be getting serious Consideration for MVP.

Maybe in the literal sense of the term Most Valuable Player, but Chris Paul is a mile off the counting stats to be in MVP consideration, given guys like Jokic, Harden, Giannis, Doncic, Lillard and LeBron all average preposterous numbers

[Moranis]

CP3 is turning 36 next month and he is still playing at an incredibly high level. Phoenix beat Utah last night and Paul had 29pts, 12ast, and 4reb while shooting 12-24 from the field and 3-7 from 3pt. Highest +/- on either team.

Suns are now only 2 games out of first in the West and they have the 2nd best record in all of basketball. Without him, I don’t see the Suns being any better than a 7-8 seed. Chris Paul should be getting serious Consideration for MVP.

Maybe in the literal sense of the term Most Valuable Player, but Chris Paul is a mile off the counting stats to be in MVP consideration, given guys like Jokic, Harden, Giannis, Doncic, Lillard and LeBron all average preposterous numbers

And have their teams winning and are inarguably their team's best player.  I think you could make a reasonable argument that Booker is the Suns best and most valuable player.  Booker is obviously the #1 scorer and 2nd to Paul in apg.  In addition, Booker has a better on/off differential.  I know a lot of this board doesn't like on/off differential, but when you are talking about actual value I don't think there is a better metric than that to determine that.  Neither Booker nor Paul is particularly elite in that metric either, which is another reason why I don't think either is going to get serious MVP consideration. 

I think Embiid is going to win it now that he is back and the Sixers are winning again.  If he misses a bunch more games though, I think it will be Jokic.  I do think James has an outside shot if the Lakers keep stumbling and he comes back in a couple of weeks and the Lakers shoot back up the standings.  I think too many voters will hold Houston against Harden this year (and frankly Durant is better than him).  There is too much Giannis fatigue for him to win it this year (given the Bucks aren't running away in the East and there are others statistically close to him).  Lillard I just don't think is good enough (he isn't a top 5ish talent) and Dallas as a team hasn't been good enough for Doncic to be a real threat (though if they keep winning at a high rate, he will get back into the race).

So for me based on how I think the season will play out I'd have Embiid 1 with Jokic a very close 2. 

[Celtics4ever]

Didn't Wade fall off a cliff after knee issues in 2013? Don't get me wrong, he still had a couple All-Star level seasons after that, but he wasn't aging like fine wine in his twilight years.

Sometimes those later nods were out of respect not ability.   Here is a great example of that

Bryant was averaging 13.8 points, 6.3 assists, and 4.3 rebounds.[266] Despite being sidelined, he was voted by fans to start in his 16th All-Star game. Bryant did not feel he was deserving of the selection, and some likened it to a career achievement award for his past performance

But there is something in common between Wade and Kemba, they both give up their bodies to draw contact a lot.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Think you mean “The Effect of Riding the Bubble-Suns Coattails”

It is very impressive though, I thought he was done when he had those hamstring injuries in Houston. Keeps changing his game to adjust to his declining athleticism. Reminds me of how D-Wade aged

Didn't Wade fall off a cliff after knee issues in 2013? Don't get me wrong, he still had a couple All-Star level seasons after that, but he wasn't aging like fine wine in his twilight years.

2-Guards games are completely built on their athleticism. That's why Wade didn't age as well as guys like Kobe and Jordan who had more finesse and savviness in their game.

[Somebody]

Didn't Wade fall off a cliff after knee issues in 2013? Don't get me wrong, he still had a couple All-Star level seasons after that, but he wasn't aging like fine wine in his twilight years.

Sometimes those later nods were out of respect not ability.   Here is a great example of that

Bryant was averaging 13.8 points, 6.3 assists, and 4.3 rebounds.[266] Despite being sidelined, he was voted by fans to start in his 16th All-Star game. Bryant did not feel he was deserving of the selection, and some likened it to a career achievement award for his past performance

But there is something in common between Wade and Kemba, they both give up their bodies to draw contact a lot.

Yeah I've been banging on that drum for a while now. Wade did put up two solid campaigns in 2014 and 2015 that look like typical All-Star seasons though, which is different from Kobe's egregious selection.

[PhoSita]

Big sliding doors moment is back in 2012 when the Celts were real close to trading Rondo for CP3.

[Moranis]

Big sliding doors moment is back in 2012 when the Celts were real close to trading Rondo for CP3.

except it wasn't the C's that backed out of that.  nor was it the C's that backed out of a Rondo for Curry swap.  The simple reality is, the league knew what Rondo was and no one was going to give up a legit All NBA caliber player for him.

[PhoSita]

Big sliding doors moment is back in 2012 when the Celts were real close to trading Rondo for CP3.

except it wasn't the C's that backed out of that.  nor was it the C's that backed out of a Rondo for Curry swap.  The simple reality is, the league knew what Rondo was and no one was going to give up a legit All NBA caliber player for him.

As I recall the CP3 thing was pretty close, I think if anything there was a question as to whether CP3 wanted to be in Boston. 

At any rate, the point is that it was close to happening and if it had happened it would have been very interesting.