The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston

[Celtics18]

I'm not sure I'm really interested in looking to sign free agents whose main concerns are the quantity and quality of the beaches and strip clubs.

Call me crazy. 

[indeedproceed]

Where is there any evidence to indicate that the Celtics can not get an expensive FA? There is none. None. Not one bit. Boston has not had money to spend on FA's in well, ever. Garnett did not want to come here because he was loyal. To a fault.

Watch a Celtics game. They are packed. Even now. Other teams say we have the best, most knowledgeable fans. No fan base salutes ex players like we do. I live in Houston where the team is one of the 4 or 5 best in the NBA and the folks here act like they barely exist. Sure the taxes and weather is great but if you are not JJ Watt they could care less.

You play well in Boston for the C's and you are a God for all time. You don't think that is not a draw? You win in Boston and you are put on the Rushmore of Rushmores. That matters as well. Trust me, next season with all that money we will snag somebody. If not you can rub my nose in it then.

I will never understand where the "nobody will come here" is coming from. We have no evidence to support the argument.

I've never tried to stop a moving locomotive with just my sheer man-strength. I don't know definitively that I can't do it, I've never tried it.

But that doesn't mean when someone says, "Hey, you there! You can't stop a locomotive with only your sheer man-strength!" that I shout back, "YOU CAN'T KNOW THAT! I'VE NEVER TRIED!"

[Celtics4ever]

Income tax in MA amounts to less than $800,000 per annum on a $15 million dollar contract. I am sure we're usually capable of beating other offers by 800k.

LOL Florida and Texas have no income tax, try beating that.

[puskas54_10]

1.I don't think the storied franchise cliche has much of a swaying effect.
25 years of mediocririty can erase a lot of appeal.
The new Big 3 era restored the celtics' renown, but Ainge quickly destroyed it.
Now people look at the celtics as a bottom feeder.

2. The weather. Don't underestimate the wheater effect. If you want to come to the Northeast, you go to New York, the biggest market with great night life.

3. Only way you get first tier free agents, if you overpay and even then he can say no. Better chance you settle for second or third tier guys while you overpay.

4. The best chance to bring a real star to Boston is to draft him.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm not sure I'm really interested in looking to sign free agents whose main concerns are the quantity and quality of the beaches and strip clubs.

Call me crazy.

This.^

Where is there any evidence to indicate that the Celtics can not get an expensive FA? There is none. None. Not one bit. Boston has not had money to spend on FA's in well, ever. Garnett did not want to come here because he was loyal. To a fault.

Watch a Celtics game. They are packed. Even now. Other teams say we have the best, most knowledgeable fans. No fan base salutes ex players like we do. I live in Houston where the team is one of the 4 or 5 best in the NBA and the folks here act like they barely exist. Sure the taxes and weather is great but if you are not JJ Watt they could care less.

You play well in Boston for the C's and you are a God for all time. You don't think that is not a draw? You win in Boston and you are put on the Rushmore of Rushmores. That matters as well. Trust me, next season with all that money we will snag somebody. If not you can rub my nose in it then.

I will never understand where the "nobody will come here" is coming from. We have no evidence to support the argument.

I've never tried to stop a moving locomotive with just my sheer man-strength. I don't know definitively that I can't do it, I've never tried it.

But that doesn't mean when someone says, "Hey, you there! You can't stop a locomotive with only your sheer man-strength!" that I shout back, "YOU CAN'T KNOW THAT! I'VE NEVER TRIED!"

So you're saying that Boston, for all intents and purposes, could never sign a big-name free agent, even if it had tons of money to offer. I disagree.

[Granath]

No this is actually fact. Name me one big name free agent that has ever decided to come to Boston? Please don't use KG resigning as an example either. It's embarrassing. The following desinations are a lot more desirable than a mod market like Boston for reasons of weather taxes or endorsements.

Lakers
Heat
Rockets
Mavericks
Clippers
Bulls
Knicks
Nets
Hawks
Spurs
Suns
Wizards
Cavs

Some teams on the list have not signed a big name free agent such as the Wizards or Hawks but with KD ear marked towards returning to Baltimore it puts them on here. Weather Geography Nightlife Endorsements and Money make up where a player wants to go. Boston will never get an elite FA. Everyone just needs to admit that and move on.

TP for half your post. Here's the rundown on the negative factors regarding FAs and Boston.

1. Taxes - Look at the states with no income tax - they're all highly desired by FAs because they keep about 5-7% more of their income.

2. Weather - Boston is beautiful, but the weather is lousy for about 4-5 months as compared to many other markets.

3. Roster - Currently, there isn't any reason for a top flight FA to sign with Boston because the roster isn't built to win now. By the way, I believe this to be true with or without Rondo.

4. Media Market - Boston is certainly a larger media market but there are bigger and you have to share it with 3 other professional sports teams, at least two of which are wildly popular. You're going to have to compete hard to get endorsement dollars. Plus, the Boston media is known for being a bunch of M****s and some players don't want to put up with that.

5. Cost of living - Boston is a fairly expensive city. Not as expensive as NY, LA or SF, but it's up there. Housing isn't cheap and transportation is a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..

I love Boston. It's one of my favorite cities. But I understand why some athletes are hesitant to come here.

But I also believe that Boston can attract a top FA if the roster is built correctly and the offer is right. Even if cb is right about the above list (and I'd argue that Cleveland is only popular because Lebron is there), that still puts Boston in middle of the pack in terms of desirability and that's not an insurmountable problem.

[ctrey]

Where is there any evidence to indicate that the Celtics can not get an expensive FA? There is none. None. Not one bit. Boston has not had money to spend on FA's in well, ever. Garnett did not want to come here because he was loyal. To a fault.

Watch a Celtics game. They are packed. Even now. Other teams say we have the best, most knowledgeable fans. No fan base salutes ex players like we do. I live in Houston where the team is one of the 4 or 5 best in the NBA and the folks here act like they barely exist. Sure the taxes and weather is great but if you are not JJ Watt they could care less.

You play well in Boston for the C's and you are a God for all time. You don't think that is not a draw? You win in Boston and you are put on the Rushmore of Rushmores. That matters as well. Trust me, next season with all that money we will snag somebody. If not you can rub my nose in it then.

I will never understand where the "nobody will come here" is coming from. We have no evidence to support the argument.

I've never tried to stop a moving locomotive with just my sheer man-strength. I don't know definitively that I can't do it, I've never tried it.

But that doesn't mean when someone says, "Hey, you there! You can't stop a locomotive with only your sheer man-strength!" that I shout back, "YOU CAN'T KNOW THAT! I'VE NEVER TRIED!"

The winner for most specious argument on Celticblog goes to this right here. Well thought out reply to my OP. Bravo.

[ctrey]

No this is actually fact. Name me one big name free agent that has ever decided to come to Boston? Please don't use KG resigning as an example either. It's embarrassing. The following desinations are a lot more desirable than a mod market like Boston for reasons of weather taxes or endorsements.

Lakers
Heat
Rockets
Mavericks
Clippers
Bulls
Knicks
Nets
Hawks
Spurs
Suns
Wizards
Cavs

Some teams on the list have not signed a big name free agent such as the Wizards or Hawks but with KD ear markedtowards returning to Baltimore it puts them on here. Weather Geography Nightlife Endorsements and Money make up where a player wants to go. Boston will never get an elite FA. Everyone just needs to admit that and move on.

Wow, that is quite a baseless rant. We have never had the cap room to even try to sign a big time FA. So the trope that the Celtics can not sign a big name FA has no basis in fact. None.

[GreenFaith1819]

Outside of my still-upset state of Rondo getting traded, I'm still optimistic about a big-time FA coming here.

I believe that Rondo would've been key in this happening, but of course I must move on from that.

As I've seen others post on here about roster construction, I'm hoping that perhaps someone can be drawn here based on tradition...that alone sounds silly to some players nowadays, but maybe if they spoke with KG, Paul, Ray or Rondo or even Perk they'd get some insight into just what it MEANS to play in BOS.

Tradition, and of course, this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GRFYDWsI9U

Four minutes, the BOS faithful chanted for BOS to rally them even in the face of a blowout - with the hope that we'd pull out game 7. We didn't of course, but the fans stood behind that team.

You just won't find THAT in many other places...TBH I don't see ANY other fan base doing that. LA/NY's fanbase would just as soon boo their players in the same setting.

If Danny is crazy enough to trade Rondo, then perhaps he is crazy (and cunning enough) to get someone else in here.

[86MaxwellSmart]

It's all about the Money...and The Celtics have NEVER had any cap space Money----some MLE money for sure---but never a Max Contract Slot for an Outside Free Agent.

[Surferdad]

Generally, we get old washed up players like Xavier MC Daniel or Wilkens looking for someone stupid enough to give them one last payday. Or we overpay for Dana Barros. Either way, history does not look good.

Add Jermaine O'Neal to that list (MLE) but again, he was a piece being added to a strong squad.

One other factor completely overlooked so far: Taxes. I believe Florida and Texas have no personal income tax. That is not chump change when you are raking in $15m plus per season. Rondo wanted to be in Houston or Dallas and possibly for this reason.

This. The income tax rates have to be a huge motivating factor in making these decisions, because we're talking about some large amounts of money coming out for taxes for alot of these players.

Income tax in MA amounts to less than $800,000 per annum on a $15 million dollar contract. I am sure we're usually capable of beating other offers by 800k.

Moreover, NY state has considerably higher rates, and that has never stopped their teams from attracting FAs. Same for California and its EXORBITANTLY high rates.

I see your point but I disagree with your implication that it is not a factor at all.  It is a real factor in that Boston has a 5-7% disadvantage right off the bat, then add that Boston does not have a bottomless pit of money to spend like some NY and LA sports franchises, and you can see why they have the ability to sign big name free agents in spite of the income tax. It is not a level playing field and Boston I simply at a disadvantage that cannot be denied. Then throw in a few other factors like a lousy roster (currently) with almost no hope of a big name free agent putting them into contention for a championship and it is very simply why the FA route is not a good one for the Celtics until they are a much better team.   

[Celtics4ever]

I think will make a run at one guy and tell him he can pick the other guy, hopefully, they agree to play together.   It's our best chance.

[greece66]

It's not like in the summer of 2016 it will be KD or nothing.
There are many decent, non-all star level players we might be interested in
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-salaries/nba-free-agents-2016-2017/

[hpantazo]

These are the major factors any potential max free agent will consider:

1) Chance to contend: we suck and have no star players, so unless we convince 2-3 stars to sign here at once, which we don't have the cap space for, we lose out here)

2) Media Exposure: We are pretty good in this category, although not LA or NY level, but close. Our media is a bit harsh though, but overall this is a strength.

3) Weather: We suck at this category. Enough said.

4) Taxes: see #3

5) Coach: Stevens seems to have a good rep but is no Phil Jackson, Pops, or even Doc, and his rep may take a hit this season with some unhappy vets.

So overall, looking at the 5 major categories FAs generally base decisions on, we won't be on most people's lists, never mind at the top.

[greece66]

These are the major factors any potential max free agent will consider:

1) Chance to contend: we suck and have no star players, so unless we convince 2-3 stars to sign here at once, which we don't have the cap space for, we lose out here)

2) Media Exposure: We are pretty good in this category, although not LA or NY level, but close. Our media is a bit harsh though, but overall this is a strength.

3) Weather: We suck at this category. Enough said.

4) Taxes: see #3

5) Coach: Stevens seems to have a good rep but is no Phil Jackson, Pops, or even Doc, and his rep may take a hit this season with some unhappy vets.

So overall, looking at the 5 major categories FAs generally base decisions on, we won't be on most people's lists, never mind at the top.

I do not think it is likely to happen, but in 2016, we'll have more than enough cap space