Chad Ford on SportsCenter talking about the Rondo Ray offer to Detroit

[CoachBo]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued.  

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

Pierce, Allen.

Posey was undervalued wildly.

I think you'd need only contrast the venom directed at Pierce, who played 100 games without competent relief, in the playoffs with the impassioned defense of Rondo at any suggestion that there's something he doesn't do well to see the difference.

[Fafnir]

You're quite correct. Plenty of folks here who still don't accurately value bench versatility.

I think the only thing we can infer about Rondo's value thus far is that other NBA GMs don't see it as high as some here on this blog do.

I think it comes down to his jump shot. The Celtics have come up with an excellent system to compensate for it, but not all coaches run that sort of system. D'Antoni would never play a PG who couldn't shoot for long stretches. Plus people fear he's just a product of the talent around him.

Those two will keep his trade value down. Now if only his agent would adjust his contract demands similarly  .

Probably some truth to that, although the system doesn't work with Garnett on the bench, as Orlando exploited Rondo pretty easily on the defensive end.

You mean they exploited him with their defense right? When I read that sentence it makes it seem like Alston/Johnson burned Rondo.

You are right that our whole team is vastly different without Garnett. Other teams have done that to Rondo before even with Garnett in effectively. That is why House/Cassell would see long stretches on the road in '08 playoffs.

[CoachBo]

With the defense primarily, although Rondo didn't play acceptably on the defensive end in that series, either.

[Fafnir]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued.  

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

Pierce, Allen.

Posey was undervalued wildly.

I think Pierce and Allen are both valued very highly. Individual posters might take issue with them, but as a whole they're valued justly.

I don't think Posey was undervalued by any means. How many "bring back Posey" threads did we see, and will continue to see? I think some tried to rationalize not signing him pretty hard, but that is not the same as undervaluing him.

Heck people argue that with Posey, Garnett's knee magically doesn't get damaged and we repeat  .

[Fafnir]

With the defense primarily, although Rondo didn't play acceptably on the defensive end in that series, either.

Until Rondo has any sort of pull up game any team with a big time shot blocker is going to give him trouble if they game plan properly.

I don't recall his defense being unacceptable though. He was called to roam so much by scheme that it made him look bad at times.

[CoachBo]

Well, Pierce collected a lot of undeserved venom in the playoffs from some of the same folks who can't accept the notion that Rondo does anything poorly.

As for Posey, you need only check today's postings to see that there are still some people who think you can win a title with five starters alone.

And I disagree with scheme. He roams on his own, and he turns his man loose far too often. Rivers remarked on several occasions during the series how poor the perimeter defense was.

[crownsy]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued.  

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

Pierce, Allen.

Posey was undervalued wildly.

I think you'd need only contrast the venom directed at Pierce, who played 100 games without competent relief, in the playoffs with the impassioned defense of Rondo at any suggestion that there's something he doesn't do well to see the difference.

I don't know of many people who undervalue paul pierce and ray allen around here.

Most of the trade heads who want to move ray want to do it because they think they can get NBA2k10 trades out of his contract, not because they undervalue him. If anything, they overvalue him in assuming that the receiving team will do backflips to aquire ray allen.

And i would say, judging by the response to and continued hammering of the Celtics for not resigning posey, he's quite highly valued too. I loved me some pose.

[crownsy]

Well, Pierce collected a lot of undeserved venom in the playoffs from some of the same folks who can't accept the notion that Rondo does anything poorly.

As for Posey, you need only check today's postings to see that there are still some people who think you can win a title with five starters alone.

And I disagree with scheme. He roams on his own, and he turns his man loose far too often. Rivers remarked on several occasions during the series how poor the perimeter defense was.

to your point on pose- that was one person in one post. there are countless posts by users a day on celticsblog, not all of them are going to be rational or agree with everyone else 100% of the time.

I would say a very, very, very high percentage of posters on this blog, especially ones that post often, value paul and ray quite highly, along with posey in 2008.

[KungPoweChicken]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued.  

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

Pierce, Allen.

Posey was undervalued wildly.

I think you'd need only contrast the venom directed at Pierce, who played 100 games without competent relief, in the playoffs with the impassioned defense of Rondo at any suggestion that there's something he doesn't do well to see the difference.

For all practical reasons, Rondo averaged a triple double while playing 41 minutes a night, yet Pierce's atrocious play is justified because he had no bench help? I don't see your rationale. Your claim that Rondo's defense was poor in the playoffs is not accurate. If Pierce played only as half as well as Rondo did in the Playoffs, we probably would have made it to the finals. Yes, even without KG.

[Fafnir]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued. 

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

Pierce, Allen.

Posey was undervalued wildly.

I think you'd need only contrast the venom directed at Pierce, who played 100 games without competent relief, in the playoffs with the impassioned defense of Rondo at any suggestion that there's something he doesn't do well to see the difference.

For all practical reasons, Rondo guy averaged a triple double while playing 41 minutes a night, yet Pierce's atrocious play is justified because he had no bench help? I don't see your rationale. If Pierce played only as half as well as Rondo did in the Playoffs, we probably would have made it to the finals. Yes, even without KG.

A triple double is over rated, on that I think everyone should agree. Such numbers don't mean anything in and of themselves.

Especially when in Game 6 and Game 7 the opposing team essentially didn't guard Rondo unless he was near the paint. Rondo is a great PG, but his one flaw hurts the team badly at times.

Pierce and Allen both could have played a lot better. But they also had doubles thrown at them all the time. Pierce in particular had Raefer and Johnson running at him the second he touched the ball at half court.

[timepiece33]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued.  

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

For years, I read one dumb Pierce trade proposal after another ... 85% of them giving him away from well below market value.

Now, I read the stuff about Ray and I see people going either extreme in 1 direction vs. extreme in another.

Ultimately, there is always 1 or 2 non scrubs that the fans gravitate towards talking about in trades.  This year it is Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo

[BballTim]

Well, Pierce collected a lot of undeserved venom in the playoffs from some of the same folks who can't accept the notion that Rondo does anything poorly.

  Again, these things go both ways. Kind of like blasting posters for criticizing an "exhausted" Pierce while at the same time criticizing very misstep by the player who's leading the league in minutes played in the playoffs.

And I disagree with scheme. He roams on his own, and he turns his man loose far too often. Rivers remarked on several occasions during the series how poor the perimeter defense was.

  I don't think he "roams on his own". People can talk all day long about how other teams cheat off of Rondo but the fact that the celts could employ a similar strategy is unfathomable.

[KungPoweChicken]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued. 

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

Pierce, Allen.

Posey was undervalued wildly.

I think you'd need only contrast the venom directed at Pierce, who played 100 games without competent relief, in the playoffs with the impassioned defense of Rondo at any suggestion that there's something he doesn't do well to see the difference.

For all practical reasons, Rondo guy averaged a triple double while playing 41 minutes a night, yet Pierce's atrocious play is justified because he had no bench help? I don't see your rationale. If Pierce played only as half as well as Rondo did in the Playoffs, we probably would have made it to the finals. Yes, even without KG.

A triple double is over rated, on that I think everyone should agree. Such numbers don't mean anything in and of themselves.

Especially when in Game 6 and Game 7 the opposing team essentially didn't guard Rondo unless he was near the paint. Rondo is a great PG, but his one flaw hurts the team badly at times.

Pierce and Allen both could have played a lot better. But they also had doubles thrown at them all the time. Pierce in particular had Raefer and Johnson running at him the second he touched the ball at half court.

See, I still don't understand why Rondo is flawed, yet Paul Pierce was just "double teamed and tired." Is it too much to ask of Celticsblog posters to admit that Paul Pierce stunk because he stunk? It's one excuse after another for Paul. Kobe Bryant gets double teamed all the time, that doesn't stop him from getting it done, and he has also played 34,531 minutes in his career. According to your logic, whenever Kobe or Paul misses a shot or a defensive assignment, they were just "tired or double teamed." What a crock! Paul Pierce played extremely poorly in the playoffs. End of story.

[BballTim]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued. 

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

Pierce, Allen.

Posey was undervalued wildly.

I think you'd need only contrast the venom directed at Pierce, who played 100 games without competent relief, in the playoffs with the impassioned defense of Rondo at any suggestion that there's something he doesn't do well to see the difference.

For all practical reasons, Rondo guy averaged a triple double while playing 41 minutes a night, yet Pierce's atrocious play is justified because he had no bench help? I don't see your rationale. If Pierce played only as half as well as Rondo did in the Playoffs, we probably would have made it to the finals. Yes, even without KG.

A triple double is over rated, on that I think everyone should agree. Such numbers don't mean anything in and of themselves.

Especially when in Game 6 and Game 7 the opposing team essentially didn't guard Rondo unless he was near the paint. Rondo is a great PG, but his one flaw hurts the team badly at times.

Pierce and Allen both could have played a lot better. But they also had doubles thrown at them all the time. Pierce in particular had Raefer and Johnson running at him the second he touched the ball at half court.

  The numbers in a triple double don't mean anything in and of themselves? I don't know that I'd go that far. Those extra 5-6 rebounds a game he got for us came in handy.

[Fafnir]

Interesting.

Appears that the NBA - and Celtics management - don't hold Rondo in the same esteem as the blog.

Well depends on the who you are talking about. A lot of people here think he should be untouchable. Others would move him for CP3/LeBron/Dwight and that is about it.

I think it is natural for any blog to over rate their subject team's players. Especially young ones that the team drafted and whom they have watched develop.

I believe it goes both ways.  You have either players that are overvalued OR undervalued. 

Who is undervalued on the C's team by most posters?

Pierce, Allen.

Posey was undervalued wildly.

I think you'd need only contrast the venom directed at Pierce, who played 100 games without competent relief, in the playoffs with the impassioned defense of Rondo at any suggestion that there's something he doesn't do well to see the difference.

For all practical reasons, Rondo guy averaged a triple double while playing 41 minutes a night, yet Pierce's atrocious play is justified because he had no bench help? I don't see your rationale. If Pierce played only as half as well as Rondo did in the Playoffs, we probably would have made it to the finals. Yes, even without KG.

A triple double is over rated, on that I think everyone should agree. Such numbers don't mean anything in and of themselves.

Especially when in Game 6 and Game 7 the opposing team essentially didn't guard Rondo unless he was near the paint. Rondo is a great PG, but his one flaw hurts the team badly at times.

Pierce and Allen both could have played a lot better. But they also had doubles thrown at them all the time. Pierce in particular had Raefer and Johnson running at him the second he touched the ball at half court.

  The numbers in a triple double don't mean anything in and of themselves? I don't know that I'd go that far. Those extra 5-6 rebounds a game he got for us came in handy.

What I mean is that just hitting double digits in three categories doesn't mean he played better than his overall performance would indicate. The extra rebounds are great but if he's had a bunch of turnovers and shoots poorly to get his assists/rebounds he still played a poor game overall.

Likewise you just because you only got to 8 or 9 rebounds doesn't mean some of his non triple double games weren't better than a few of his triple doubles.

I just dislike the veneration of a triple double.