Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa

[EJPLAYA]

Two Half players don't make a whole player like Ray Allen. Horrible idea.

[Mr October]

With this talk of trades and rebuilding, I'd like to offer an opinion/observation.

Most people blame the downfall on the Celtics on the fact that they held onto McHale and Parish too long. I disagree. I think that only delays the rebuilding process by a couple years.

What sank the C's into a long funk were all the bandaid contracts through trades and FA signings. Building through a core of Sherman Douglass, Dee Brown, Rick Fox, Xavier McDaniel, Dino Radja, Pervis Ellison, Travis Knight, etc. was not the answer. Non of those guys are/were studs to build around. The cap was destroyed for years to come.

[CoachBo]

One title and people want to rebuild again?

The basketball card crowd is obviously bored.

[Brickowski]

It'sbetter to trade a player a year too soon than a year too late.  In two years Ray Allen won't fetch nearly this much.

[BrickJames]

No.

[Bahku]

Double no.

[TradeProposalDude]

I don't usually respond to trade ideas because they are absurd and seemingly would never happen in real life.

However, this idea takes absurdity to a whole new level.

Why trade NBA champion Ray Allen? Are you kidding me? This guy deserved the FINALS MVP almost every bit as much as Paul Pierce did. You hear that? FINALS MVP. I know Barbosa is a good player, and Diaw has talent, and even with picks included... but for the love of God, you don't trade Ray Allen right after you win the championship. Especially when he was a critical factor to our success. And don't even get me started on the positives he brings from a leadership standpoint. Just ask Rondo - he said Ray motivated him to improve not only his jumper but overall game.

This is so crazy. People want to trade RAY ALLEN? Jesus (no pun intended).

[Bahku]

I don't usually respond to trade ideas because they are absurd and seemingly would never happen in real life.

However, this idea takes absurdity to a whole new level.

Why trade NBA champion Ray Allen? Are you kidding me? This guy deserved the FINALS MVP almost every bit as much as Paul Pierce did. You hear that? FINALS MVP. I know Barbosa is a good player, and Diaw has talent, and even with picks included... but for the love of God, you don't trade Ray Allen right after you win the championship. Especially when he was a critical factor to our success. And don't even get me started on the positives he brings from a leadership standpoint. Just ask Rondo - he said Ray motivated him to improve not only his jumper but overall game.

This is so crazy. People want to trade RAY ALLEN? Jesus (no pun intended).

Well said ... TP. Ray is so extremely valuable on so many levels ... I pray to God that he's a Celtic for the remainder of his career, and that number 20 will be hanging in the rafters of the Garden one day.

[Brickowski]

I don't usually respond to trade ideas because they are absurd and seemingly would never happen in real life.

However, this idea takes absurdity to a whole new level.

Why trade NBA champion Ray Allen? Are you kidding me? This guy deserved the FINALS MVP almost every bit as much as Paul Pierce did. You hear that? FINALS MVP. I know Barbosa is a good player, and Diaw has talent, and even with picks included... but for the love of God, you don't trade Ray Allen right after you win the championship. Especially when he was a critical factor to our success. And don't even get me started on the positives he brings from a leadership standpoint. Just ask Rondo - he said Ray motivated him to improve not only his jumper but overall game.

This is so crazy. People want to trade RAY ALLEN? Jesus (no pun intended).
 

Well said ... TP. Ray is so extremely valuable on so many levels ... I pray to God that he's a Celtic for the remainder of his career, and that number 20 will be hanging in the rafters of the Garden one day.

You are both 100% wrong.  I'll start with a history lesson.

It was very clear by 1989 or 1990 that the Bird-McHale-Parish Celtics were finished as a championship contender.  Bird had a bad back, Len Bias had overdosed and died, and draft choices like Michael Smith and Dee Brown were simply not talented enough.

McHale and Parish still had great value around the league, but the team refused to trade them when they had value.  What?  Trade Kevin McHale? That's preposterous, his number will be hanging from the rafters one day.  Same with Parish.

So, instead of moving these stars for younger players while the stars still had considerable trade value, they were kept, and what we saw was a slow decline culminating in those truly atrocious teams of 1995 and 1996, and a 21-year championship drought.

I'll repeat myself: it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.  The same issues will arise when Garnett and Pierce start to decline. I want to see the Celtics contend for the next 20 years, not just the next two.  And just because we are all basking in the glow of a championship is no reason not to think ahead.   

[Who]

I don't usually respond to trade ideas because they are absurd and seemingly would never happen in real life.

However, this idea takes absurdity to a whole new level.

Why trade NBA champion Ray Allen? Are you kidding me? This guy deserved the FINALS MVP almost every bit as much as Paul Pierce did. You hear that? FINALS MVP. I know Barbosa is a good player, and Diaw has talent, and even with picks included... but for the love of God, you don't trade Ray Allen right after you win the championship. Especially when he was a critical factor to our success. And don't even get me started on the positives he brings from a leadership standpoint. Just ask Rondo - he said Ray motivated him to improve not only his jumper but overall game.

This is so crazy. People want to trade RAY ALLEN? Jesus (no pun intended).
 

Well said ... TP. Ray is so extremely valuable on so many levels ... I pray to God that he's a Celtic for the remainder of his career, and that number 20 will be hanging in the rafters of the Garden one day.

You are both 100% wrong.  I'll start with a history lesson.

It was very clear by 1989 or 1990 that the Bird-McHale-Parish Celtics were finished as a championship contender.  Bird had a bad back, Len Bias had overdosed and died, and draft choices like Michael Smith and Dee Brown were simply not talented enough.

McHale and Parish still had great value around the league, but the team refused to trade them when they had value.  What?  Trade Kevin McHale? That's preposterous, his number will be hanging from the rafters one day.  Same with Parish.

So, instead of moving these stars for younger players while the stars still had considerable trade value, they were kept, and what we saw was a slow decline culminating in those truly atrocious teams of 1995 and 1996, and a 21-year championship drought.

I'll repeat myself: it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.  The same issues will arise when Garnett and Pierce start to decline. I want to see the Celtics contend for the next 20 years, not just the next two.  And just because we are all basking in the glow of a championship is no reason not to think ahead.   

With the salary cap and the added value of expiring contracts is it as important as before to trade early?

There's a very good chance that Ray Allen will have more value as an expiring deal than he does right now.

[TradeProposalDude]

You are both 100% wrong.  I'll start with a history lesson.

It was very clear by 1989 or 1990 that the Bird-McHale-Parish Celtics were finished as a championship contender.  Bird had a bad back, Len Bias had overdosed and died, and draft choices like Michael Smith and Dee Brown were simply not talented enough.

McHale and Parish still had great value around the league, but the team refused to trade them when they had value.  What?  Trade Kevin McHale? That's preposterous, his number will be hanging from the rafters one day.  Same with Parish.

So, instead of moving these stars for younger players while the stars still had considerable trade value, they were kept, and what we saw was a slow decline culminating in those truly atrocious teams of 1995 and 1996, and a 21-year championship drought.

I'll repeat myself: it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.  The same issues will arise when Garnett and Pierce start to decline. I want to see the Celtics contend for the next 20 years, not just the next two.  And just because we are all basking in the glow of a championship is no reason not to think ahead.   

I understand that argument, I just don't think Barbosa and Diaw are upgrades. If you are to trade Ray Allen, ideally you are looking for a star in return. Don't break the cardinal rule of "the team who gets the best player is the team who wins the trade."

Under your same rationale, the Celtics would never trade for KG and Ray Allen because trading for vet's would come back to haunt the Celtics as they approach the twilight of their careers.

Ray Allen, if I'm not mistaken, has only two years left on his deal. He is a pure shooter who is constantly being doubled or tripled so that he doesn't catch fire. Most of the time, this doesn't even work. Barbosa is a good shooter, but he just doesn't pose the same kind of threat that Ray does. That makes a big difference in terms of spreading the floor and finding people for open shots. Lastly, talent alone won't push a team over the top for the present, or future. Allen is a very good leader and the younger players have all attributed Allen's motivational approach to their success. Barbosa will never have that kind of impact.

[timepiece33]

I'll repeat myself: it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.  The same issues will arise when Garnett and Pierce start to decline. I want to see the Celtics contend for the next 20 years, not just the next two.  And just because we are all basking in the glow of a championship is no reason not to think ahead.   

And as many people have pointed out, this is a different era.   While I would be open trade Ray Allen, I also realize come next year ... we will have $20MM in expiring contracts to trade in a year where certain teams might be interested in selling a player to open up cap room to pursue LeBron or Wade.  IMO,that has a ton more value than an overpaid younger player and an undersized PG.

Would New Jersey trade Richard Jefferson and Marcus Williams for Ray Allen and Glenn Davis?  They are trying to clear Jefferson's contract to make a run after LeBron OR Dwayne Wade .... and guess what the difference in contracts allows them to do?

Would Chicago do a S/T that would include Luol Deng and Larry Hughes to clean up their roster and give them a veteran to help their young roster? 

[Brickowski]

I don't usually respond to trade ideas because they are absurd and seemingly would never happen in real life.

However, this idea takes absurdity to a whole new level.

Why trade NBA champion Ray Allen? Are you kidding me? This guy deserved the FINALS MVP almost every bit as much as Paul Pierce did. You hear that? FINALS MVP. I know Barbosa is a good player, and Diaw has talent, and even with picks included... but for the love of God, you don't trade Ray Allen right after you win the championship. Especially when he was a critical factor to our success. And don't even get me started on the positives he brings from a leadership standpoint. Just ask Rondo - he said Ray motivated him to improve not only his jumper but overall game.

This is so crazy. People want to trade RAY ALLEN? Jesus (no pun intended).
 

Well said ... TP. Ray is so extremely valuable on so many levels ... I pray to God that he's a Celtic for the remainder of his career, and that number 20 will be hanging in the rafters of the Garden one day.

You are both 100% wrong.  I'll start with a history lesson.

It was very clear by 1989 or 1990 that the Bird-McHale-Parish Celtics were finished as a championship contender.  Bird had a bad back, Len Bias had overdosed and died, and draft choices like Michael Smith and Dee Brown were simply not talented enough.

McHale and Parish still had great value around the league, but the team refused to trade them when they had value.  What?  Trade Kevin McHale? That's preposterous, his number will be hanging from the rafters one day.  Same with Parish.

So, instead of moving these stars for younger players while the stars still had considerable trade value, they were kept, and what we saw was a slow decline culminating in those truly atrocious teams of 1995 and 1996, and a 21-year championship drought.

I'll repeat myself: it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.  The same issues will arise when Garnett and Pierce start to decline. I want to see the Celtics contend for the next 20 years, not just the next two.  And just because we are all basking in the glow of a championship is no reason not to think ahead.   

With the salary cap and the added value of expiring contracts is it as important as before to trade early?

There's a very good chance that Ray Allen will have more value as an expiring deal than he does right now.

No, he won't.  Right now deal is short (2 years) and Ray still has great basketball value, particularly to a team like Phoenix looking to make a run with aging players like Shaquille O'Neal, Steve Nash and Grant Hill.

As for this being a different era, yes, but the principles are the same.  Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

Look at the JO trade to see what happens when you trade a player a year too late.  The Pacers coyuld have done much better ttrading him to the Lakers last July.  Certainly they could have gotten Bynum and Farmar.  As it is, they're getting a non-lotto pick (#17), a player with very serious medical issues (TJ Ford) and a bunch of crap.

[CoachBo]

There's simply no reason to trade Ray just to trade him, and dealing him for these two Phoenix players is exactly that: They don't improve the team, they add little to us defensively.

Come to me with an offer for Ray to improve the team and let's talk about it. This one doesn't improve our team at all.

[Brickowski]

Excuse me?  Diaw is an excellent defender-- better than Ray Allen.  And Diaw is 6-9 with a handle good enough to play sg. He's in is md 20's, as is Barbosa.  Is either guy as good as Ray Allen individually?  No.  But the team would be just as good.

The problem with this deal is that Phoenix probably wouldn't do it.