Author Topic: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race  (Read 30574 times)

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Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2014, 06:21:02 PM »

Offline mgent

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Did he rev the engine to hit the guy or as a last attempt to push the car down the track to avoid him?  No one else was slowing down.  The kid walked right at that car in a turn on a dirt track where those cars were clearly showing signs of sliding around.



I have no clue what Stewart saw and could have done, but the guy has been in race car driving way to long to do something as stupid as to purposely run someone over.
According to physics, slowing down is always going to help you turn in less distance than hitting the accelerator, and that's without even taking into account how much friction you lose by hitting the accelerator (which is the only force available to turn you).   Centripetal acceleration is mass times velocity squared divided by the radius.  If you accelerate, then no matter what the radius of your circle has to increase.

Your front tires are still following the exact same path, all kicking your tail out does is help you carry more speed on the exit of the turn, which obviously didn't matter because the field is frozen before the caution even comes out (your position is reverted to where ever you were when you passed the last scoring loop before the caution comes out).

Drivers usually don't brake immediately unless they have to, they just coast.  They don't try to immediately reach pace speed, their main goal is just to be cautious and not hit anything.  And these are PROFESSIONAL drivers, they are as good at not hitting things as LeBron is at basketball.  I've never seen a driver hit anything bigger than a water bottle during a caution until now, other than the Daytona fire where Montoya's steering went out.

The fact that he was on gas is pretty solid evidence that he was trying to scare the kid (you're right, there's 0 chance he did it on purpose).

It's also worth pointing out, when he hopped out of the car he was WELL outside the race groove, where no car could go at full speed.  Where Tony hit him was incredible far up the track.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 06:31:55 PM by mgent »
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2014, 06:40:19 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I would brought the car  to a complete stop before I would have chanced hurting him.

Tony was bound to see him running around out in the traffic waving his arms

Caution flag is out , positions are frozen,  Tony has had a lap to back down his speed and regroup..but I'm afraid he hadn't cooled off ......buzzing the young man was a bad choice

Teaching people lessons with dangerous machines is a recipe for disaster .

The family has my prayers and sympathy .

« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 06:55:53 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2014, 06:44:06 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Tony Stewart seems like he was being reckless and an idiot (as he has a track record of doing) but I do think we can't excuse a driver for walking that close to any car and onto the driving area of the track.  It is an extremely dangerous and foolish thing to do.  I don't think that can be ignored when weighing what happened.

I'm not sure where blame should fall but I just have to say it wasn't cold blooded murder.  Ward was acting like a fool.  I don't mind competitors being fired up but there is a line to what is acceptable.
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Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2014, 06:48:03 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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kid was a fool for walking on the track, regardless of stewart's action (purposeful or accidental). if he didn't walk out there like a tough guy, he would be here today. thoughts with his family

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2014, 07:01:35 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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kid was a fool for walking on the track, regardless of stewart's action (purposeful or accidental). if he didn't walk out there like a tough guy, he would be here today. thoughts with his family

Two wrongs don't make a right.

The young man put his self in harms way ,  so , you as an experienced driver don't need to assist himor teach him a lesson at this him.  I didn't see any effort of Stewart to avoid a confrontation .

The video seemed to show just the opposite .

Only Tony know s for sure

He should have slowed , swerved low on the track , stopped.....instead you can obviously hear him as he gunned the motor.....not the the correct reaction of someone who CARES about the life in front of him.

Yes he sorry .....but it's too late now

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2014, 07:08:18 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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kid was a fool for walking on the track, regardless of stewart's action (purposeful or accidental). if he didn't walk out there like a tough guy, he would be here today. thoughts with his family

Two wrongs don't make a right.

The young man put his self in harms way ,  so , you as an experienced driver don't need to assist himor teach him a lesson at this him.  I didn't see any effort of Stewart to avoid a confrontation .

The video seemed to show just the opposite .

Only Tony know s for sure

He should have slowed , swerved low on the track , stopped.....instead you can obviously hear him as he gunned the motor.....not the the correct reaction of someone who CARES about the life in front of him.

shame on the kid for thinking nothing tragic could happen if he went out on the track like that.  again, regardless if stewarts actions were purposeful or accidental, if he didn't walk out on the track like a tough guy, he would be alive. 

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2014, 07:09:57 PM »

Offline BballTim

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kid was a fool for walking on the track, regardless of stewart's action (purposeful or accidental). if he didn't walk out there like a tough guy, he would be here today. thoughts with his family

  The kid was stupid, but it's likely Stewart intentionally did something that was reckless and resulted in someone's death. You can read online about people being much more stupid than Ward, up to asking people to shoot them  or shoot near them and the person who does so invariably gets arrested.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2014, 07:47:16 PM »

Offline staticcc

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I have raced on a similar dirt track before. Ward was stupid as hell to be doing that but Tony saw him FOR SURE and had time to react.

I haven't driven on dirt tracks, but just from my driving experience in general, isn't it premature to make that conclusion?  I would think that you'd need to have a better idea of the lighting conditions, what his windshield looked like in terms of visibility, his field of vision related to the vehicle in front of him, whether or not the driver's safety suit blended into his car from the angle Stewart was driving, where Stewart's attention was (i.e., was he focused on the wrecked car and the vehicles in front of him, rather than seeing the driver), etc., etc.

Maybe he saw him at the last second, and gunned his engine to try to rapidly change directions.  I don't know enough about racing, but I've read a number of people say that this is what is probable.

I don't think criminal charges will come from this, because it's impossible to tell what Stewart saw, or what his intent was.

Even on a dirt track , you can see at least 3 seconds in front of you based on my experience. That is enough time to lightly tap on the breaks and slow down or steer away from a guy walking on the track.

I guess it could be possible Tony was distracted with a car beside or behind him that prevented him from seeing Ward right away but barring any of that, he tried to scare the guy and disaster struck. Tony will get punished regardless. An accident is still manslaughter if I'm not mistaken. He still killed someone; the investigation will look into intent.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 07:56:25 PM by staticcc »
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Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2014, 08:16:21 PM »

Offline mgent

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I have raced on a similar dirt track before. Ward was stupid as hell to be doing that but Tony saw him FOR SURE and had time to react.

I haven't driven on dirt tracks, but just from my driving experience in general, isn't it premature to make that conclusion?  I would think that you'd need to have a better idea of the lighting conditions, what his windshield looked like in terms of visibility, his field of vision related to the vehicle in front of him, whether or not the driver's safety suit blended into his car from the angle Stewart was driving, where Stewart's attention was (i.e., was he focused on the wrecked car and the vehicles in front of him, rather than seeing the driver), etc., etc.

Maybe he saw him at the last second, and gunned his engine to try to rapidly change directions.  I don't know enough about racing, but I've read a number of people say that this is what is probable.

I don't think criminal charges will come from this, because it's impossible to tell what Stewart saw, or what his intent was.
1.  The amount of lighting going down on race tracks is usually way beyond necessary.  In one race this year almost half the lights on the track went out and all the drivers agreed it was fine to finish the race (take that Superbowl!),

2.  Do Sprint cars even have windshields?  I thought they just had rock cages.  No clue whether or not they allow tear-offs on the helmet visors though, which theoretically could get scratched. 

3.  Things are happening way too quick in the corner at those speeds to be looking at what's happening in straight in front of you, you're basically looking to the left the entire race trying to see what's coming up.  It's not uncommon to see the left side of a driver's eye completely bloodshot after long, difficult races.

4.  I guess there could have been so much camouflage that his suit blended in, but they're usually incredibly amazing at noticing movement.  They give each other the tiniest waves and signals (such as when they're crossing the track to take pit road), that they somehow see while driving 200-220 mph, but I can't see sitting in my living room on HD television.  He didn't just get out and stand there, I would guess he saw him waving and pointing at him almost as clearly as he could see a yellow flag waiving.

5.  When guys use the accelerator to help them turn, it's because their back wheels aren't lined up with their front wheels.  As you obviously know, correcting a turn is very different in RWD vs FWD.  If you're turning to the left and begin to spin out, THAT's when you hit the accelerator and turn the wheel right, opposite of where you want to go.  Despite sending your front wheels further up the track, it slides your rear wheels back to the left and re-aligns your wheels quicker than turning the wheel alone.  Now you're higher up the track than you were, but you have more traction and more lateral bite to keep throwing it left.

Making your car get loose (meaning your rear tires don't have as much traction as the front) is hardly the best way to turn in the shortest distance.  As you know, traction is the most important thing when turning, any friction used to accelerate or decelerate is friction that can't be used to turn you; and friction is the only force you get.  That's why you constantly hear drivers complain about their car being loose.  Like I said earlier, being a little loose can help you carry more speed throughout the turn by eliminating understeer, but it shouldn't be able to help you turn in less distance.  Under a green flag it doesn't matter, because the extra distance you're going by oversteering is made up by your extra speed.   But if a guy is about to hit the wall, he's letting off the gas, more throttle isn't going to do anything for him unless he had room to work with in the first place (which Tony didn't).  It's just going to make your butt hit the wall instead of your face.



Left is understeer (hitting the gas in a FWD causing less traction in the front than back) right is oversteer (hitting the gas in a RWD causing less traction in the back than front),  The red car straightens out much sooner than the blue one, meaning he has higher speed on the exit of the corner and can floor it down the straight-away sooner.  But that also means his entrance into the corner has to be slower (or else he does what the red car continues to do), and obviously it's worse for dodging things on the high side of the track.

Andddd, last but not least, Tony Stewart's radio was almost 100% certainly screaming in his ear that there was a caution and what it was for as soon as it happened.  There's even a good chance they told him he was getting out of his car and was angry (which they often do so the driver can avoid the person who is probably trying to someway do damage to his car in retaliation).
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2014, 08:20:35 PM »

Offline greg683x

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not to interrupt the discussion but what kind of cars were they driving???  I obviously dont watch racing, nascar, or any of that stuff but Ive never seen those cars before.  I only thought Tony Stewart did the stock car races so I was surprised to see these cars.
Greg

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2014, 09:16:32 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He was not waving his arms, he was pointing at him and tried to confront him when he was in the racing vehicle.   It almost look like he tried to punch the moving vehicle and Stewart hit the gas when this happened and it caused the vehicle to shift.  I only seen the tape once.

I am sure it is different on dirt but at 80 mph your going 117.3 feet per second,  the breaking deceleration would be 305 feet, Perception reaction distance would be 176 feet ( Stewart's might be less as  he is a skilled professional racer) and a total stopping distance of 481 feet.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/stopdistinfo.html

Guys who think he could have stopped on a dime are grossly in error.  Physics does not allow this folks.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2014, 10:06:05 PM »

Offline mgent

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I didn't say he was waving his arms.  I guess on further review that's not exactly a wave, but he put his arm up and down more than once which is what I was referring to.

I don't think anyone said he would have been able to stop on a dime, but everything about those cars down to the tiny wheelbases are designed to make the car turn on a dime.  In racing, you don't stop when there's a wreck, you dodge.  If he had brought it down to even 70 he probably could have avoided him no problem (assuming he was going 80, I have no clue).  Also are your numbers adjusted for weight (probably 1/3 of a passenger car) and race tires made specifically for that surface?
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2014, 10:39:19 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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wow. I donut think you can blame that on the driver though.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2014, 11:03:03 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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There's no way Stewart receives any punishment as there is no way to prove Tony intentionally hit him.  The guy broke track rules and was walking around on a live race track.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr hit and killed by Tony Stewart's car during race
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2014, 11:05:01 PM »

Offline AidaCelt

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For those saying you could hear the engine revving as he came around the corner, all well and good but there are other cars that go past without slowing and you can hear their engines rev too. By the looks of things, the lighting at the track was extremely poor and when you're driving in a RACE it wouldn't be easy to see a lunatic on the track walking towards your car. Especially as you're coming out of a turn.

As they say, guns don't kill ducklings, ducklings kill ducklings... this guy breached the ultimate rule of motor racing by walking out onto the track.

RIP to the young man!
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