Author Topic: Nastia Was Robbed  (Read 20379 times)

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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2008, 09:26:44 AM »

Offline Fox40Kid

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I actually watched the Gold medal match last night.  It was a very exciting match.  But I will miss it as well.
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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2008, 07:45:10 PM »

Offline cordobes

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all i know is that i'm going to miss women's beach volleyball...

Are you following the indoor competition? I'm rooting hard for the US team - I get sucked into the Logan Tom worship bandwagon. I'm embarrassed to admit that, at first, it was mostly because she's gorgeous, but she's also an exciting player. They caused a major upset by unexpectedly destroying the Cubans in the semis yesterday. Funny team to watch.

Anyway, what I mean is: Logan Tom > Misty May or whoever in every single aspect. I strongly advice you to give it a try.

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Back to the thread: just out of curiosity, does any of you make the slightest idea of how to score a routine? Or has ever read the COP?

I strongly disagree with the notion the Liukin was robbed. I think that Yang Yilin (the bronze medalist) should have been the winner and it wasn't even that close: and I believe this is pretty consensual among gymnastics fans. She had the cleanest performance, I just don't see how did they scored them so low. Between Kexin and Liukin, I don't know, they're pretty close. That's why they got the same score, but by no means this means that Liukin was robbed (or that He would have been robbed if the tie-break has gone the other way). And personally, I don't agree with the fact that she has got the same start value as Kexin. He routine has a Li Ya combo, a Tkatchev into a Pak and a very difficult Jaeger. Liukin UB routine is pretty underwhelming, from my point of view. No breathtaking and exciting skills at all. But I'd say it really could've gone either way, not a robbery by any means.

Quote
(...)

The third tiebreak -- hang onto your hats, for your brains are about to explode --was the average of the three lowest of the four counting judges' deductions. This is where Liukin lost.

Trust me on this: It's a goofy solution. The final tally was arrived at by using the Polish, New Zealand and Brazilian judges' deductions for He, and the Australian, New Zealand and Bulgarian's deductions for Liukin. The Australian judge, Helen Colagiuri, must have been watching another competition. She scored He's execution three-tenths of a point higher than Liukin's, despite the step He took on her dismount. None of the other five judges scored He's execution higher than a tenth above Liukin, and two of the judges -- from Poland and Bulgaria -- had Liukin's execution score two-tenths higher than He's.

In other words, it's all in the eye of the beholder. Either that, or there's some big time politics involved. Either way, the judging in gymnastics at these Olympics has been wildly erratic at best.

Link.

So...  it's a ridiculous scoring system, and it seems like Nastia got screwed by one judge (Australia) who didn't know what she was doing.
- Roy Hobbs

These are fair points to bring up. Just my opinion:

1 - I don't like the tie-break rule as well, but I wouldn't call it a goofy solution. Is there a better one? In abstract, I don't see much of a problem with the "two medals" solution, but the fact is that things were getting pretty silly. The argument that people didn't know the rule is silly: it's written in the code and it was a matter of discussion when it was published, even among fans.

2 - Why do you say that the Australian judge didn't know what she was doing? Because of the 0.3 points differential? Well, another judge (the Polish, IIRC) gave Liukin a 0.2 differential relatively to Kexin, so I don't think that's much of an argument, unless you think that a 0.2 point differential is acceptable and a 0.3 one isn't. That Aussie judge, Helen Colagiuri, has already underscored Nastia in the past, but this doesn't mean she's biased against her, it's probably a matter of style. Liukin has some flaws and probably that judge values those flaws more than the average judge. It's her call. In this particular routine, I don't think Nastia was at her best: lots of leg separations, her Pak was very akward and she doesn't have Kexin's amplitude. And Helen gave her a 9.0, same as three other judges. Has she overscored Kexin? Again, I don't think it's fair to say that. I wouldn't score her so high, but I wouldn't say it's an egregious score.

So, if anyone was robbed in the Uneve was YYL. Anyway, I'd advise some of you to follow Nick's example. Gymnastics is a very subjective sport. There are always arguments over scoring (it's a big part of the sport, it's what fans do for most of the year anyway). Judges make mistakes? Sure. Are home gymnasts favored? In the past years, very, very slightly. In these Olympics, I don't think it was a factor. Are some gymnasts' scores boosted/screwed because they're performing in their supposedly best/worst event? Yes, this happens, and I think this is the main reason  why Yang didn't win the gold medal. Was there any kind of conspiracy or concerted effort to favor the Chinese gymnasts? That's laughable. I had no problems with the scores in these Olympics. I think SJ should have won the AA event and YYL the UB, but far worse has happened in the past. The judges did a great job and the gymnasts presented awesome routines and displayed great sportsmanship. Besides, the casual fan puts too much emphasis in the Olympics. Who cares if Nastia Liukin or Cheng Fei didn't dominate? They are the best gymnasts of their generation and missing Olympic Medals won't change that. Cheng has her name in a routine, in a century people will still say "oh, and perfectly executed Cheng Fei!". I'd take that over a Gold Medal everyday.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 07:50:28 PM by cordobes »

Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2008, 12:26:22 AM »

Offline Celtic

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Bob Costas just said that the IOC has stated new evidence has come to light that He Kexin is only 14, and is asking the Gymnastics federation to investigate. He also stated that the precedent has been set of stripping medals from teams involved in cheating, by the relay team that was stripped of its medal after one of the US runners admitted to doping.

Bye Bye cheating children, it's a strange scenario, she still did the gymnastics legitimately, it's just that her country chose to cheat and potentially ruin her Olympic experience, I hope she doesn't receive any repercussions for this.

Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2008, 03:51:54 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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I heard one of the funniest things I've ever heard this morning concerning the IOC and Kexin.  A news report said that the the IOC was investigating this to the fullest because the "reputation of the IOC is at stake".   ;D :D 


Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2008, 04:40:57 PM »

Offline Andrew Celtic Nation

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Yang Yilin had a performance that would seem to give her a greater medal than Bronze but honestly there must have been some imperfections the judges noticed because you can't tell me they wanted the tie between Kexin and Nastia to occur with the third tiebreaker deciding the gold medals, especially since Kexin is more at the center of the age controversies than Yilin.

Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2008, 07:57:54 PM »

Offline Andy Jick

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maybe this explains all of yao's injuries...he might actually be 45 years old.
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