Gilbert Arenas goes off on Zion

[Monkhouse]

“OK, how about this: We see 27 and 14, but how did you actually get that? Did you post somebody up in college? Did you sit here with the left hand grab it, turn and face, get them in and dunk it? No? You got 12 points on fast break,” Arenas said. “You got 12 points sitting here [standing on the wing], you know, waiting for another player to do something and then you come in with the tomahawk. So when I say you dominated, your stats are dominating, but are you? At 6-6 power forward, which, you’re undersized, you’re 285. Sounds amazing, sounds great. But in reality, if I say well, he’s Westbrook’s height but he’s Shaq’s rookie weight, everybody’s like ooh, that’s not, ooh. Because that’s what he is. 6-6 285, you haven’t posted up at all. You didn’t post up in high school, it’s the lazy post up [simulates a lazy post up]. You know, you’re sitting here, because before all you would just have to do is just jump high, drop step and try to dunk on everybody. So you never learned the skill of backing down, two dribbles, none of it. When you go to the next level, what position do you play?

“So you have this great phenom player that has no true skill,” Arenas said. “And that’s what I said: You can dominate but not dominate. Because you’re going to go to another level where they’re going to make you a three. Do you know how to come off of pin-downs? Do you know how to run baseline curls? Do you pick and roll, pick and pop? No? You’re just Blake Griffining it. You know, you’re Blake Griffining it, waiting for track and field and you run in and dunk it. When I look at stuff like that it’s like, he’s going to train that kid one day and he’s going to sit there scratching his head, like, you’re going to be the No. 1 pick and I’m struggling with how you can’t do a majority of the stuff that other players can.”

What do you guys think?

[footey]

“OK, how about this: We see 27 and 14, but how did you actually get that? Did you post somebody up in college? Did you sit here with the left hand grab it, turn and face, get them in and dunk it? No? You got 12 points on fast break,” Arenas said. “You got 12 points sitting here [standing on the wing], you know, waiting for another player to do something and then you come in with the tomahawk. So when I say you dominated, your stats are dominating, but are you? At 6-6 power forward, which, you’re undersized, you’re 285. Sounds amazing, sounds great. But in reality, if I say well, he’s Westbrook’s height but he’s Shaq’s rookie weight, everybody’s like ooh, that’s not, ooh. Because that’s what he is. 6-6 285, you haven’t posted up at all. You didn’t post up in high school, it’s the lazy post up [simulates a lazy post up]. You know, you’re sitting here, because before all you would just have to do is just jump high, drop step and try to dunk on everybody. So you never learned the skill of backing down, two dribbles, none of it. When you go to the next level, what position do you play?

“So you have this great phenom player that has no true skill,” Arenas said. “And that’s what I said: You can dominate but not dominate. Because you’re going to go to another level where they’re going to make you a three. Do you know how to come off of pin-downs? Do you know how to run baseline curls? Do you pick and roll, pick and pop? No? You’re just Blake Griffining it. You know, you’re Blake Griffining it, waiting for track and field and you run in and dunk it. When I look at stuff like that it’s like, he’s going to train that kid one day and he’s going to sit there scratching his head, like, you’re going to be the No. 1 pick and I’m struggling with how you can’t do a majority of the stuff that other players can.”

What do you guys think?

Goes "in" or goes "off"??

[KGs Knee]

I mean, sure, Zion's weaknesses are easy to see.  But Gilbert just sounds like a disgruntled jerk who is still upset his own career didn't pan out how he thought it would.

[Monkhouse]

“OK, how about this: We see 27 and 14, but how did you actually get that? Did you post somebody up in college? Did you sit here with the left hand grab it, turn and face, get them in and dunk it? No? You got 12 points on fast break,” Arenas said. “You got 12 points sitting here [standing on the wing], you know, waiting for another player to do something and then you come in with the tomahawk. So when I say you dominated, your stats are dominating, but are you? At 6-6 power forward, which, you’re undersized, you’re 285. Sounds amazing, sounds great. But in reality, if I say well, he’s Westbrook’s height but he’s Shaq’s rookie weight, everybody’s like ooh, that’s not, ooh. Because that’s what he is. 6-6 285, you haven’t posted up at all. You didn’t post up in high school, it’s the lazy post up [simulates a lazy post up]. You know, you’re sitting here, because before all you would just have to do is just jump high, drop step and try to dunk on everybody. So you never learned the skill of backing down, two dribbles, none of it. When you go to the next level, what position do you play?

“So you have this great phenom player that has no true skill,” Arenas said. “And that’s what I said: You can dominate but not dominate. Because you’re going to go to another level where they’re going to make you a three. Do you know how to come off of pin-downs? Do you know how to run baseline curls? Do you pick and roll, pick and pop? No? You’re just Blake Griffining it. You know, you’re Blake Griffining it, waiting for track and field and you run in and dunk it. When I look at stuff like that it’s like, he’s going to train that kid one day and he’s going to sit there scratching his head, like, you’re going to be the No. 1 pick and I’m struggling with how you can’t do a majority of the stuff that other players can.”

What do you guys think?

Goes "in" or goes "off"??

Fixed.

I mean, sure, Zion's weaknesses are easy to see.  But Gilbert just sounds like a disgruntled jerk who is still upset his own career didn't pan out how he thought it would.

Some of his points are valid, and definitely concerns that have been prefaced.

Although, I believe Irving and Arenas both attended the same school....

Why?

Arenas probably thinks the Earth is flat as hard as he fell off the face of it the last 2 years.

And if Zion, should learn anything from Arenas... Don't bring any guns to the locker room. 

I do agree though with Arenas... Zion hasn't played one NBA game, and yet people are comparing him to Hall of Famers...

[KGs Knee]

“OK, how about this: We see 27 and 14, but how did you actually get that? Did you post somebody up in college? Did you sit here with the left hand grab it, turn and face, get them in and dunk it? No? You got 12 points on fast break,” Arenas said. “You got 12 points sitting here [standing on the wing], you know, waiting for another player to do something and then you come in with the tomahawk. So when I say you dominated, your stats are dominating, but are you? At 6-6 power forward, which, you’re undersized, you’re 285. Sounds amazing, sounds great. But in reality, if I say well, he’s Westbrook’s height but he’s Shaq’s rookie weight, everybody’s like ooh, that’s not, ooh. Because that’s what he is. 6-6 285, you haven’t posted up at all. You didn’t post up in high school, it’s the lazy post up [simulates a lazy post up]. You know, you’re sitting here, because before all you would just have to do is just jump high, drop step and try to dunk on everybody. So you never learned the skill of backing down, two dribbles, none of it. When you go to the next level, what position do you play?

“So you have this great phenom player that has no true skill,” Arenas said. “And that’s what I said: You can dominate but not dominate. Because you’re going to go to another level where they’re going to make you a three. Do you know how to come off of pin-downs? Do you know how to run baseline curls? Do you pick and roll, pick and pop? No? You’re just Blake Griffining it. You know, you’re Blake Griffining it, waiting for track and field and you run in and dunk it. When I look at stuff like that it’s like, he’s going to train that kid one day and he’s going to sit there scratching his head, like, you’re going to be the No. 1 pick and I’m struggling with how you can’t do a majority of the stuff that other players can.”

What do you guys think?

Goes "in" or goes "off"??

Fixed.

I mean, sure, Zion's weaknesses are easy to see.  But Gilbert just sounds like a disgruntled jerk who is still upset his own career didn't pan out how he thought it would.

Some of his points are valid, and definitely concerns that have been prefaced.

Although, I believe Irving and Arenas both attended the same school....

Why?

Arenas probably thinks the Earth is flat as hard as he fell off the face of it the last 2 years.

And if Zion, should learn anything from Arenas... Don't bring any guns to the locker room. 

I do agree though with Arenas... Zion hasn't played one NBA game, and yet people are comparing him to Hall of Famers...

I'm a huge Duke fan.  And, no, I wouldn't draft Zion #1 either, nor do I think Gilbert is wrong in everything he said.

But the tone here just stinks of having some sort of ax to grind.  Like what even prompted such harsh criticism?

[Roy H.]

I mean, sure, Zion's weaknesses are easy to see.  But Gilbert just sounds like a disgruntled jerk who is still upset his own career didn't pan out how he thought it would.

From second round pick to $141 million in salary: he might be disgruntled, but his career went just fine.

He’s just getting onto the hot take train. And honestly, unlike most hot takes, he provided a bit of analysis.

[Monkhouse]

“OK, how about this: We see 27 and 14, but how did you actually get that? Did you post somebody up in college? Did you sit here with the left hand grab it, turn and face, get them in and dunk it? No? You got 12 points on fast break,” Arenas said. “You got 12 points sitting here [standing on the wing], you know, waiting for another player to do something and then you come in with the tomahawk. So when I say you dominated, your stats are dominating, but are you? At 6-6 power forward, which, you’re undersized, you’re 285. Sounds amazing, sounds great. But in reality, if I say well, he’s Westbrook’s height but he’s Shaq’s rookie weight, everybody’s like ooh, that’s not, ooh. Because that’s what he is. 6-6 285, you haven’t posted up at all. You didn’t post up in high school, it’s the lazy post up [simulates a lazy post up]. You know, you’re sitting here, because before all you would just have to do is just jump high, drop step and try to dunk on everybody. So you never learned the skill of backing down, two dribbles, none of it. When you go to the next level, what position do you play?

“So you have this great phenom player that has no true skill,” Arenas said. “And that’s what I said: You can dominate but not dominate. Because you’re going to go to another level where they’re going to make you a three. Do you know how to come off of pin-downs? Do you know how to run baseline curls? Do you pick and roll, pick and pop? No? You’re just Blake Griffining it. You know, you’re Blake Griffining it, waiting for track and field and you run in and dunk it. When I look at stuff like that it’s like, he’s going to train that kid one day and he’s going to sit there scratching his head, like, you’re going to be the No. 1 pick and I’m struggling with how you can’t do a majority of the stuff that other players can.”

What do you guys think?

Goes "in" or goes "off"??

Fixed.

I mean, sure, Zion's weaknesses are easy to see.  But Gilbert just sounds like a disgruntled jerk who is still upset his own career didn't pan out how he thought it would.

Some of his points are valid, and definitely concerns that have been prefaced.

Although, I believe Irving and Arenas both attended the same school....

Why?

Arenas probably thinks the Earth is flat as hard as he fell off the face of it the last 2 years.

And if Zion, should learn anything from Arenas... Don't bring any guns to the locker room. 

I do agree though with Arenas... Zion hasn't played one NBA game, and yet people are comparing him to Hall of Famers...

I'm a huge Duke fan.  And, no, I wouldn't draft Zion #1 either, nor do I think Gilbert is wrong in everything he said.

But the tone here just stinks of having some sort of ax to grind.  Like what even prompted such harsh criticism?

No clue, but maybe it is because he just doesn't believe all the hype. Plus the bidding for Zion on his new shoe deal is probably going to eclipse LeBron's 90 million as a rookie.

That being said, who would you pick 1st?

[Sophomore]

I mean, sure, Zion's weaknesses are easy to see.  But Gilbert just sounds like a disgruntled jerk who is still upset his own career didn't pan out how he thought it would.

From second round pick to $141 million in salary: he might be disgruntled, but his career went just fine.

He’s just getting onto the hot take train. And honestly, unlike most hot takes, he provided a bit of analysis.

We'll see. I think Arenas is missing a lot. He's discounting the moves Williamson did make, some of which are very good for an 18-year old - especially playing against teams that are loaded to stop him and when his coach (for whatever reason) is running an incredibly basic set of actions. Arenas also ran down the 14 rebounds in his opening but never followed through. There were some tough, contested rebounds in there, at key points of the game. And, maybe no surprise, agent 0 forgot to talk about team defense, where Williamson not only blocked shots he also altered many more. In the last 10 minutes I counted three misses that were clearly due to ZW coming over to help - including one where he then collected the rebound.

It's a funny thing about Williamson; he doesn't actually look like a man among boys all that often. It's not like peak LBJ or Jordan. But the numbers at the end of the game are eye-popping and there are definitely flashes. I also wonder how he will play after a year of NBA conditioning and a reasonable minutes load - not 40 straight minutes - on a team where he's doubled every time he touches the ball...

My guess is that he's something like Blake Griffin in his first year. Blake was an all star.

 

[Big333223]

Sounds like Gilbert hasn't watched basketball since he "retired". The idea that Zion is going to be a 3 in the modern NBA seems far-fetched, as is the idea that he'll be asked to post up as a PF. In 2009, maybe those things wouldn't have been crazy but they still would've been shortsighted.

With Zion's combination of strength and coordination, I think he'll be fine.

[KGs Knee]

I mean, sure, Zion's weaknesses are easy to see.  But Gilbert just sounds like a disgruntled jerk who is still upset his own career didn't pan out how he thought it would.

From second round pick to $141 million in salary: he might be disgruntled, but his career went just fine.

He’s just getting onto the hot take train. And honestly, unlike most hot takes, he provided a bit of analysis.

We'll see. I think Arenas is missing a lot. He's discounting the moves Williamson did make, some of which are very good for an 18-year old - especially playing against teams that are loaded to stop him and when his coach (for whatever reason) is running an incredibly basic set of actions. Arenas also ran down the 14 rebounds in his opening but never followed through. There were some tough, contested rebounds in there, at key points of the game. And, maybe no surprise, agent 0 forgot to talk about team defense, where Williamson not only blocked shots he also altered many more. In the last 10 minutes I counted three misses that were clearly due to ZW coming over to help - including one where he then collected the rebound.

It's a funny thing about Williamson; he doesn't actually look like a man among boys all that often. It's not like peak LBJ or Jordan. But the numbers at the end of the game are eye-popping and there are definitely flashes. I also wonder how he will play after a year of NBA conditioning and a reasonable minutes load - not 40 straight minutes - on a team where he's doubled every time he touches the ball...

My guess is that he's something like Blake Griffin in his first year. Blake was an all star.

 

Krzyzewski had no choice, the team didn't have the right mix of talent to run anything more sophisticated.  Jones isn't that special with the ball in his hands, and Duke was an uncharacteristically mediocre at best three-point shooting team this year.  I could tell early in the season they weren't championship material unless Zion went on an epic run.  He almost did, but not quite.

That being said, who would you pick 1st?

I'm in the Morant camp.  He looks like he has the tools to be everything you'd want in a lead guard in today's NBA.  If Barrett had shown more as a freshman, being a wing, I'd like to think he would be the top choice (ideally, if you have the #1 pick you should hope that the best player in that draft is a wing).  But Barrett looks like a guy who could struggle to get to the rim off the dribble at the NBA level, and his shot mechanics are poor.  Zion does have the most theoretical upside, but I think it's more likely he's just 'good'.  I'm not convinced he can physically dominate at the NBA level the way he did in college.  Zion's path to stardom will be in his ability to get to the rim off the dribble, regardless of who switches onto him.  That's a tough task for a guy who isn't likely to command much respect as a perimeter shooter.

[gouki88]

Garbage analysis from Arenas. From misrepresenting the way Zion plays as "waiting for someone else to do something" to saying he's the same height as Russell Westbrook.

Gilbert just wants to be able to say 'I told you so' in case Zion doesn't pan out. Zion has many skills, including a very tight handle, elite finishing around the ring, great rebounding and versatile strong defence.

[Spicoli]

I hate when people say "Oh, player XXX won't be able to get that shot off in the NBA!" They must not have been paying attention because currently there is ZERO defense played in the NBA. A simple pick can get a ballhandler free and force the defense to scramble. Everyone is on the perimeter and other than Gobert and Capella, there's no resistance at the rim to speak of. Julius Randle is putting up numbers in the same fashion that Zion will put up numbers but Zion is 3x the athlete. I don't see any logic for not taking this guy first overall. He will succeed in this soft version of the NBA. I have zero doubts about that.

[SHAQATTACK]

Barkley is only like 6' 5 1/2 " , but he forced his way to the hoop and muscled him s way for many a rebound and put back

[Big333223]

Barkley is only like 6' 5 1/2 " , but he forced his way to the hoop and muscled him s way for many a rebound and put back

And did so in an era that prioritized size a lot more.

[Ogaju]

Barkley is only like 6' 5 1/2 " , but he forced his way to the hoop and muscled him s way for many a rebound and put back

And did so in an era that prioritized size a lot more.

Are we really going to call Barkley an overachiever did you see what size he played at?