Author Topic: GP still hatin on Rondo  (Read 8791 times)

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Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2008, 04:30:27 PM »

Offline davemonsterband

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I'm with GP because if Rondo wasn't a C we wouldn't raise an eyebrow I don't think. He has a ton of flaws, I faith he'll remedy them, until he does, hammer away I says! The Glove sounds pretty out of it sometimes but he knows his ball, there's no denying that.
"The Best Revenge Is Massive Success"
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Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2008, 05:08:52 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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rondo can use this as motivation.  when he is aggressive, he is a great player with lots of potential and a definate "game changer".  but when he isnt aggressive, he can be contained and is sometimes a liability on the offensive end

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 05:37:40 PM »

Offline Dwnflfan

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What's really funny is how similar Rondo's stat lines are to Gary's first few years in the league.  Especially when you consider that Rondo is two years younger than Payton was at the time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoga01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

So if Rondo sucks Gary...
 :)

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 06:08:19 PM »

Offline rondilla

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just to play devil's advocate here, is anything GP said really that wrong.  The Big 3 do make Rondo better than he is (as they would with anyone).  Rondo is lucky to play with the Big 3 (as would anyone be).  And more importantly, Rondo is inconsistent, tentative, lacks a complete offensive game, etc.  Sure GP's tone is uncalled for, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong.

I disagree with the notion that the big 3 make Rondo better. It might be true in the sense that Rondo learns a lot playing with the big 3 and it seemed like Ray took him under his wing last year. But in terms of on court performance, that's not true and the stats back it up.

Last season, when one or more of the big 3 was out, Rondo averaged something like 15 points, 5 assists and 6 rebounds. And it wasn't that small of a sample size, it was something like 15-16 games. This year, in the game that KG was out Rondo got 15 points, 7 assists, 8 rebounds and 2 steals. So statistically, Rondo has performed better when one or more of the big 3 are out.

Why would this be the case? Well, when the big 3 are playing, it forces Rondo to play off the ball a lot since the big 3 handle the ball a lot themselves. This forces Rondo to shoot a lot of jumpers which is his weaknesses even though he is wide open. When one or more of the big 3 are out, he gets to have the ball in his hands much more often and be able to penetrate and create shots for himself or others, his main strength. So the idea that the big 3 make Rondo look better is a big myth IMO. That would be true if Rondo's game was like House's where he is a great shooter but can't create a shot for himself so the big 3 have to do it for him, but it's the opposite with Rondo.

I think that Paul, Kevin and Ray can make Rondo better, but not by a whole lot. He isn't like Eddie who needs someone else to set him up. His game is all about speed. Personally I think that the guy who helps Rondo the most is Garnett when Kevin sets the kid picks and works the give and go. Ray and Paul help to space the floor for Rajon, but apart from that they don't really enhance his game that much. They help, they just don't make or break him.

I can see that a lot of people are still banging away with the whole "aggression" thing. Rondo is doing better because he is being ALLOWED to keep the ball. It really isn't much more complicated than that. Our offense for the majority of the season was Rondo dribbling the ball up the court and giving it to Paul and Ray. Not making plays, not getting picks so that he could drive, not running the offense from the top. Those things happened.... on occasion, but mostly it was Paul and Ray running the offense. It seemed to me that Paul and Ray had to, at least once each game, look at an open Rondo and instead decide to turn the ball over. Some games it happened quite a bit. Rondo spectating while we played 4 on 5 basketball. An offensive nightmare. People, including the Celtics themselves, were talking about how our top ranked defense wasn't sharp enough, while our joke of an offense was getting shut down.

Rondo is being allowed to hold onto the ball now and run his offense, and we are scoring like crazy. It isn't an accident. It is really hard to "be aggressive" when you are standing in the weak side corner while your teammates are turning the ball over and refuse to pass it to you. I honestly don't know how he averaged as many assists as he did, he didn't get a whole lot of opportunities to get them.

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 06:30:54 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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What's really funny is how similar Rondo's stat lines are to Gary's first few years in the league.  Especially when you consider that Rondo is two years younger than Payton was at the time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoga01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

So if Rondo sucks Gary...
 :)

In the first few years, GP has better FG%, FT%, 50% more steals, twice the assists, twice the blocks.  Not a very convincing argument.
God bless and good night!


Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 07:40:40 PM »

Offline yupitsme

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GP must not watch the Rondo show.  :-\

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2008, 10:05:53 PM »

Offline housecall

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rondo can use this as motivation.  when he is aggressive, he is a great player with lots of potential and a definate "game changer".  but when he isnt aggressive, he can be contained and is sometimes a liability on the offensive end
tp for your comment,very well stated and is probably the closest to the truth ive read in awhile.

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2008, 10:14:01 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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rondo can use this as motivation.  when he is aggressive, he is a great player with lots of potential and a definate "game changer".  but when he isnt aggressive, he can be contained and is sometimes a liability on the offensive end
tp for your comment,very well stated and is probably the closest to the truth ive read in awhile.

thanks housecall, i appreciate it

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2008, 10:19:16 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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What's really funny is how similar Rondo's stat lines are to Gary's first few years in the league.  Especially when you consider that Rondo is two years younger than Payton was at the time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoga01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

So if Rondo sucks Gary...
 :)

In the first few years, GP has better FG%, FT%, 50% more steals, twice the assists, twice the blocks.  Not a very convincing argument.

In their second seasons, Rondo averaged more ppg (10.6 to 9.4), rpg (4.2 to 3.6), less turnovers per game (1.9 to 2.1), less fouls per game (2.4 to 3.1) and shot better from the field (49.2% to 45.1%) and from 3's (26.3% to 13%)..

Payton averaged more apg (6.2 to 5.1) and shot fts better (66.9% to 61.1%) He was slighty ahead in bpg (0.3 to 0.2) and spg (1.8 to 1.7), although I'd consider those two a wash.

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2008, 10:29:45 PM »

Offline ManUp

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GP just got a haters shout out from KG in the post game. lol

I guess it's common knowledge that GP doesn't like Rondo.

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2008, 11:32:14 AM »

Offline Dwnflfan

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What's really funny is how similar Rondo's stat lines are to Gary's first few years in the league.  Especially when you consider that Rondo is two years younger than Payton was at the time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoga01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

So if Rondo sucks Gary...
 :)

In the first few years, GP has better FG%, FT%, 50% more steals, twice the assists, twice the blocks.  Not a very convincing argument.

Talk about an unconvincing argument!

They have virtually identical FG %'s (GP 46.9% RR 46.7%).  The difference being 4 shots dropping for RR in his 1288 attempts  ::).  That also give GP credit for GP entire 3rd year while RR has played less than 20% of his.  My guess is RR is ahead of GP by the end of his 3rd year.

50% more steals???  You're not really just adding GP's 1st 3 years totals and comparing it to RR's first 3 are you?  You do realize that RR has only played 20% of his 3rd year right?  :o  Per game 1st 3 years (GP about 2.0  RR 1.7 so far)  If you use per/36 min  (GP about 2.3 RR 2.3).  The only difference is minutes played.

Blocks  Per game (GP 0.232  RR 0.135) You're right those two #'s are AT ALL comparable!   ::)

Win shares wise RR was more valuable his first two years than GP 9.5 WS to 7.3 and is on pace to be more valuable his 3rd year 9.5 projected to 7.7.

...and did I mention that GP was TWO YEAR OLDER while putting up these virtually identical #'s? 

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2008, 12:35:48 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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I was actually looking at the first two years.  I am not a Rondo hater by any means, but rather I was pointing out the futility in using the first two-years statistics of both players to make any comparison.

Just use your eyeballs.  Rondo clearly doesn't suck.  Period.

GP is just a curmudgeon (but GP was a better defender for what it's worth).
God bless and good night!


Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2008, 12:32:50 AM »

Offline Dwnflfan

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I was actually looking at the first two years.  I am not a Rondo hater by any means, but rather I was pointing out the futility in using the first two-years statistics of both players to make any comparison.

Just use your eyeballs.  Rondo clearly doesn't suck.  Period.

GP is just a curmudgeon (but GP was a better defender for what it's worth).

Sorry I misunderstood your tact but your #'s were still a bit off.

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2008, 07:05:04 PM »

Offline steved24

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sig test..

Re: GP still hatin on Rondo
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2008, 07:09:55 PM »

Offline crownsy

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“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion