Author Topic: 72-10 Bulls Vs. 66-16 Celtics  (Read 10998 times)

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Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2008, 03:20:35 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Dude didn't mean PJ alone is Amare. I meant that the Defense, Length and athletic Prowess of Perkins PJ and Garnett is better that Rodman Weddington and Longley.

Do you argue that?
Maybe.

Wennington was 7ft, Longley was 7'2"! Rodman was small, but we know how he can play defense. I remember some great epic battles against Mourning. Rodman was truly a nuisance.

Perk is 6'10". Brown 6'11', and I would say that KG is 7'. We also played Powe a bit, who is small, but athletic.

I'm now sure our athleticism is much better. Perk is strong. PJ is strong and a vet. I don't see a big disparity. Perk and PJ definitly hit people harder, and that helps. But Rodman can get his hits in.

The Bulls, btw, were the #1 defensive team and the #1 offensive teams in basketball. They could not play the #1 defensive team in the finals, because they could not play themselves.

Considering the Bulls had 2 guys coming off the bench who averaged 20 or more minutes per game in the playoffs, they didn't need a long rotation. If needed, they had a veteran 7 footer on the bench in Salley. And Kukoc, though not much of a defender, was 6'10". 7 foot James Edwards also played some in the playoffs at age 40, managing a foul ever 2.8 minutes!

With Jordan, Pippen, and Harper starting, that is also a decent sized and very athletic group. While Ron Harper wasn't as athletic as in his Clippers days, he was still 6'6". Pippen was 6-7, but we all know how long his arms were.

Looking back on the Bulls, it's impressive how their top 4 swing men (Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc and Harper) could all play the 1, 2, or 3 for extended minutes. I also forgot about their age. Similar to the Spurs. All veterans, though I suppose Kukoc spent many years playing first in Europe.

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2008, 04:00:45 AM »

Offline FanInTheSouth

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As much as it pains me to say this, but I think that the Bulls win this series in 6.  That Bulls team was excellent defensively, and they seemed to be able to turn up the intensity at will.  DMonster said something earlier about the new rules with hand checks and zones, etc, but I think that the hand checking rule would actually help Jordan out a lot.  The zone may have bothered him some, but by the time the finals rolled around Jordan would have figured out a way to get around that little problem. 

Another thing to consider is that particular Bulls team had 2 players from the top 50 of all time (including one that is widely considered the best ever), granted if the list was remade today, Garnett would probably be on that list (I don't think that Pierce would make it, sorry) but I still think there's a lot to be said for that.  Do you think that the Bulls would have blown a 20 pt lead midway through the 3rd quarter?  Also, Bulls would have the home court advantage based on their records.

The C's would definitely have a chance in this series, especially if we played D the way we were capable of playing, but I would have a hard time betting against MJ.

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 04:56:46 AM »

Offline EatSleepBreatheGreen

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Okay, heres a position by position  breakdown

PG: Ron Harper vs Rajon Rondo
Harper would post him all day but Rondo could blow by him on the other end. Result: PUSH

SG: Michael Jordan vs Ray Allen
Jordan would get his no matter who we put in front of him. Not to mention the star calls he might get. That would get us in fould trouble and make us put who? Tony Allen on him? Dont get me started on that. Ray would get his points too but overall Result: ADV BULLS

SF: Scottie Pippen vs Paul Pierce
Scottie was a very good def player, Pierce can and would be in this series. When it comes to Offense I see him having as much an advantage on Pippen as MJ has on Ray. Result: ADV CELTS

PF: Dennis Rodman vs Kevin Garnett
Dennis had the most dirty tricks in league history to get rebounds. Some antics included him poking players in the rear end with his finger(dirty b@st@rd). My only worry is that this is too much for KG to control his anger. Overall I think KG gets "decent" #s but not what we're used to seeing. RESULT:ADV CELTS

C: Luc Longley vs Kendrick Perkins
Luc had a lukewarm game. He was decent at best. I think Perkins would completely out muscle him put up 8ppg 8-9rpg n 2blks...I will take that all day. ADV: CELTS

Bench:
Only standouts with CHI is Kerr, Kukoc and Randy Brown(hes avg)...Our standouts are Posey, House, Allen, Powe. ADV: CELTS

That is my honest opinion. I watched the Bulls of that era, and they were responsible for getting me interested in basketball at all. I think their team had that swagger and intimidated teams(sort of how we are now), but their real strength was on offense. Yea MJ, Pipp,Harper and Ro[dang] were good Def players. But they were good individual def players. The celtics have a TEAM def mindset. The celts have 5 individuals focused on DEF at all times on the court. I think our Def is better and we could contain at least everyone but MIKE. Lets not forget to mention that at that time the coach for the Bulls was The Zen master Phil Jackson. The same guy running the same triangle offense we SHUT COMPLETELY DOWN last year. Overall I think it probably would have been one of the best matchups EVER in ANY sport. I tried my best to be completely un-biased, and in the END.....CELTICS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God I love waking up in the morning and lookin up at the sun shining in the bright GREEN sky. lol

Edit:[dang] i gotta get more posts under my name it says Patrick Obryant....EWWWWWWWWW I rather be Scal, lol

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 06:19:48 AM »

Offline davemonsterband

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And what I mean by that is Is jordan has 40 pierce Gets 30 or more.

Next you will say that Pippen's on pierce And mike's got ray.

Well Pippen Was great on D But is he that much better than defensively than Lebron, Prince, Artest, Kobe, or whoever else Pierce has torched in the past.

Either way the combined points of Allen And Pierce would be very similar to Jordan Pippens totals.

With all due respect...No.

Allen gets completely shut down by MJ, completely,,,lucky to hit double figures. 

Yes Pierce may have done well in some games against Kobe, Lebron, and Prince, but he was not guarding MJ on the other end.  Pippen would lock him up especially with Pierce be winded from guarding Jordan. 

Not to mention..who is guarding Pippen? Ray Ray,,,no way.  I am a die hard C's fan but the matchup of Ray and PP v. MJ and Pippen would not be "very similar totals"

And who D's up on KG? Fine, Jordan shuts down Ray, that means he has to more or less face guard him, Pip on Pierce, same thing, but that leaves the Ticket. I think you're forgetting he would HAVE TO be double teamed for the WHOLE game, Rodman would get absolutely punked so they'd have no choice, and that would leave guys like Ray and Paul open just like they are against any other team. And even that aside, KG could draw Rodman away from the basket and neutralize him somewhat on the boards, PF's of that era did not have KG's range, Perk would eat up those offensive boards. 

It was an expansion year as well, Toronto gave them some trouble but that was such a weak time for the NBA. The C's found themselves as a team in the Finals for the very first time and they showed it, so to me anything prior to the finals is a moot point because it took that long for them to finally find themselves as a team, the Bulls had that before the season already began, just like the undefeated Patriots. The C's won 66 games without true team cohesion, a new found starting PG, 2nd round draft picks, a guy playing with one leg, etc.

Let's not forget, the flippin' Sonics brought them to 6, they had somewhat of a similar lineup, GP/Rondo, Detlef/Paul, Kemp/KG, Hersey/Ray, and well, Sam's not comparable to anybody. The C's were far superior in every facet of the game and every position but PG, they had both a more potent offense and defense, true superstars, they relied on SHAWN KEMP, and Hersey Hawkins was playing with one foot in the grave.

Once the Bulls hit a somewhat of worthy opponent in the Finals with a blend of scoring and defense that could match them at both ends of the floor their aura of invincibility was gone, and against last year's C's they would have had their hands full. Before the Finals they played Miami, pathetic, Orlando who were defensively ill-equipped for the Bulls and the Knicks who were obviously past their prime with only 47 regular season wins.

I once again find this sort of thing sort of dumb to some degree, because every contender these days has 3 unbelievable players, back in the day they had one, maybe two if they were lucky. Patrick then who? Reggie Miller then who, Rick Smits? Shaq then Penny? The Bulls had sub par competition and they were ahead of their time, like everything to do with Michael Jordan once Bird and Magic were out of the league.

There are no true shutdown defenders anymore, there are guys that are capable but the fact you can't touch a guy added with floor spacing and three point shooting being such a well defined art now (don't forget the 3 pt line was shorter that season) teams like the Bulls who locked down with individual defenders would be exploited, that would apply to Michael as well. Saying he'd shut down Ray makes no sense, they couldn't shut down John Starks or Reggie Miller half the time, you can't just shut down a shooter when you have two other guys on the floor that command a double team, common sense.

The real question should be if the 72-10 Bulls got a full season in today's era and had to face the C's in the Finals who would win? And the would be 65 or so win Bulls, I think, would still lose, too many offensive weapons for the C's for them to handle.

Now, with today's cap and talent, that team would remedy the problem, THEN they'd probably win. They're a superstar short to beat a team like that of today's era IMO.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 06:42:10 AM by davemonsterband »
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Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 06:33:14 AM »

Offline bopna

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Okay, heres a position by position  breakdown

PG: Ron Harper vs Rajon Rondo
Harper would post him all day but Rondo could blow by him on the other end. Result: PUSH

SG: Michael Jordan vs Ray Allen
Jordan would get his no matter who we put in front of him. Not to mention the star calls he might get. That would get us in fould trouble and make us put who? Tony Allen on him? Dont get me started on that. Ray would get his points too but overall Result: ADV BULLS

SF: Scottie Pippen vs Paul Pierce
Scottie was a very good def player, Pierce can and would be in this series. When it comes to Offense I see him having as much an advantage on Pippen as MJ has on Ray. Result: ADV CELTS

PF: Dennis Rodman vs Kevin Garnett
Dennis had the most dirty tricks in league history to get rebounds. Some antics included him poking players in the rear end with his finger(dirty b@st@rd). My only worry is that this is too much for KG to control his anger. Overall I think KG gets "decent" #s but not what we're used to seeing. RESULT:ADV CELTS

C: Luc Longley vs Kendrick Perkins
Luc had a lukewarm game. He was decent at best. I think Perkins would completely out muscle him put up 8ppg 8-9rpg n 2blks...I will take that all day. ADV: CELTS

Bench:
Only standouts with CHI is Kerr, Kukoc and Randy Brown(hes avg)...Our standouts are Posey, House, Allen, Powe. ADV: CELTS

That is my honest opinion. I watched the Bulls of that era, and they were responsible for getting me interested in basketball at all. I think their team had that swagger and intimidated teams(sort of how we are now), but their real strength was on offense. Yea MJ, Pipp,Harper and Ro[dang] were good Def players. But they were good individual def players. The celtics have a TEAM def mindset. The celts have 5 individuals focused on DEF at all times on the court. I think our Def is better and we could contain at least everyone but MIKE. Lets not forget to mention that at that time the coach for the Bulls was The Zen master Phil Jackson. The same guy running the same triangle offense we SHUT COMPLETELY DOWN last year. Overall I think it probably would have been one of the best matchups EVER in ANY sport. I tried my best to be completely un-biased, and in the END.....CELTICS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God I love waking up in the morning and lookin up at the sun shining in the bright GREEN sky. lol

Edit:[dang] i gotta get more posts under my name it says Patrick Obryant....EWWWWWWWWW I rather be Scal, lol

[dang]ed right I think The Celtics can and would win a series with the Bulls...their 72-10 record was quite inflated considering expansion, quite frankly, that same Bulls team is not and will not do 72 wins in todays NBA. Im just surprised as to why we treat Mike like he is and his team is undefeatable, they are not and to my opinion has not seen a defense quite like when the Celtics did if we truly switch it on.....heck even that Bulls team is gonna struggle against the fakers of today(which we by the way destroyed in a finals series).


Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 07:24:37 AM »

Offline Celtics17

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I think the old Bulls could be compared favorably to last years Cavs except add Michael where Lebron is and oh man throw in Pippen. If you never saw Scottie Pippen play much then consider this. When both he and Michael were playing I always said Pippen was the best player in the league from 11 feet up meaning he played a game more above the rim then Michael, at least at times. Specifically, while Michael dunked far more then Scottie I still say he did not get as far above the rim as Scottie did on most of his plays.

IN case you were not aware of how good Scottie Pippen was on defense, he is probably the only player that I can think of who could have effectively guarded both MJ, Lebron, and Kobe. He was kind of like Posey in his length and flexibility but a much better defender and that is saying a lot. And, let's not forget that he could drop 30 on you any game although most games he didnt have to. Oh, and another thing, shutting down Kobe and shutting down MJ are nowhere near the same concept. MJ is the second best scorer the game has seen and Wilt didn't play for Chicago. Shutting him down or for that matter even slowing him down was not that easy.

All that being said, if the series was allowed to be a very physical one then our beloved C's would be very competitive. If you think Rodman would have gotten into Garnett's head what do you think Perkins would have done to Rodman in a physical series? For us I think BBD would be an X factor. He has the size, ability and attitude to "bother" Rodman. Rodman, wedding dress and all, should be regarded as one of the most "underrated" players in league history. There is a reason he has 5 rings and it's not just because he played with great players. I say the series goes 7 and despite BBD and Perkins attempted decapitation of MJ, the Bulls still win the series. Sorry guys but I saw every game of both series and it's just too hard to beat MJ.

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2008, 08:11:21 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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SF: Scottie Pippen vs Paul Pierce
Scottie was a very good def player, Pierce can and would be in this series. When it comes to Offense I see him having as much an advantage on Pippen as MJ has on Ray. Result: ADV CELTS

I think you're underrating Pippen, or underrating MJ.  The gap between Jordan and Ray is huge, whereas the gap between Pierce an Pippen, if there's a gap at all, is very close.


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Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2008, 08:12:35 AM »

Offline JBcat

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The Bulls swept 2 out of the 4 series that year (played the Knicks who were as tough as nails with Mason, Oakley and Ewing on that team, a very talented Magic team with Shaq, Penny before all the injuries, Nick Anderson before his career went downhill fast, Dennis Scott, and Horace Grant, and the Sonics after Kemp and Payton had a very good all around player in Schrempf a solid scorer in Hawkins and some decent role players) and the longest series was 6 in the finals whereas the Celtics struggled to find their way at times in their first year in the playoffs.   This Bulls team was very experienced in the playoffs and I think that has to factor in at least a little bit.

If we had the good aggressive Rondo maybe it would give us a shot.  Harper was very good defensively but only played about half the game so if Rondo was in the game against Kerr he could exploit that matchup.  

I remember Jordan's early years and once he got over the hump with his first title it was all over.  If he didn't step away from the game he could have won 8 straight titles!  As much as I love my Celtics I find it very hard to say they could beat maybe Jordan's best team.  Jordan just wouldn't let him happen.

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2008, 08:22:20 AM »

Offline MBz

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Picking Pierce over Pippen?  Come on now.  Pippen was a much better player.  He was a better ball handler, a better passer, maybe Pierce is a better scorer, but that's all he has on Pippen.  The defense isn't even close in my opinion.  This guy was a triple double threat every single night.  I just can't see comparing these two guys, Pippen might put up the points like Pierce, but he fills up the box score better and plays better defense.
do it

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2008, 08:31:19 AM »

Offline thecaptain34

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Bulls in 5 or 6...anyone who thinks KG would be our biggest strength never saw Dennis Rodman play. KG would get destroyed.
Pippen is a better defender by light years then Kobe, Lebron, Prince, Pierce and is actually bigger and longer than pierce...Pierce has always struggled with guys like that

do we even have to get into Ray Allen/MJ?


Re: 72-10 Bulls Vs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2008, 08:40:13 AM »

Offline Redz

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And we could even settle that question raised in another thread.

Does Rondo = BJ Armstrong?
Yup

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2008, 02:11:00 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Garnett get's Desroyed by Rodman?

You have got to be kidding me.

I liked Rodman's game too.  But come on.

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2008, 02:17:13 PM »

Offline thecaptain34

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Garnett get's Desroyed by Rodman?

You have got to be kidding me.

I liked Rodman's game too.  But come on.


Um, Dennis Rodman would beat the heck out of KG...He wouldnt score 20 a game but he'd get in KG's head and be really physical with him..If you really think last years celtics wouldve beaten MJ's greatest team in a 7 game series, you're just being a homer

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vrs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2008, 02:48:59 PM »

Offline EatSleepBreatheGreen

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I think you're underrating Pippen, or underrating MJ.  The gap between Jordan and Ray is huge, whereas the gap between Pierce an Pippen, if there's a gap at all, is very close.


Ok lets assume this game between the Celts and Bulls happens in TODAYS NBA(ticky tack fouls etc.) How many players back in that era could have gotten to line as much as Pierce does now? Pippen was a good defender because he didnt allow other SFs to post him, he was too big for that. But to say he had the lateral quickness to stay in front of pierce is nonsense. MJ is MJ. He probably would have guarded Ray Allen, but Jordans style of D, he gambles too much. That would leave Ray with a couple of WIDE open jumpers. Im not comparing our players to their players individually. Im comparing how we matchup.

Overall I still say we are wayyy too athletic and Defensive minded to allow the Bulls to beat us. I would say it would take all 7 games but we would still come out on top in the end.

Sidenote:Pippen is an alltime great, but his reputation is a TEE-BIT inflated because he played with THE ALL TIME GREAT. just my honest opinion.


Read this after posting:

There are no true shutdown defenders anymore, there are guys that are capable but the fact you can't touch a guy added with floor spacing and three point shooting being such a well defined art now (don't forget the 3 pt line was shorter that season) teams like the Bulls who locked down with individual defenders would be exploited, that would apply to Michael as well. Saying he'd shut down Ray makes no sense, they couldn't shut down John Starks or Reggie Miller half the time, you can't just shut down a shooter when you have two other guys on the floor that command a double team, common sense.

NUFF SAID!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 02:54:48 PM by EatSleepBreatheGreen »

Re: 72-10 Bulls Vs. 66-16 Celtics
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2008, 04:33:51 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'll chime in and try to keep it short.

Anyone who thinks shutting down Jordan would be the same as shutting down Kobe is a complete fool.  Probably been reading too much Jemima Hill. 

Jordan would abuse whoever was guarding him.  If he was guarding Ray, Ray would be shut down like he was in the Cavs series.

And if anyone could shut down Pierce it would have been Pippen.  Pippen was a better player and rather underrated... defensively he was one of the best.

The Malone/Rodman stuff is true as well. Rodman was great defensively.  I dunno that he'd shut down KG or anything.  KG plays a different kind of game...

I think what it boils down to is this...  that Bulls defense would have been as tough for us to deal with as the Pistons and Cavs defense were.   However... their offense was greater than any team we faced.   LeBron went for 35, 32 and 45 points against us in his last 3 games while averaging 26.7 points, 6.4 rebounds and 7.5 assists for the 7 game series.  But LeBron isn't MJ and LeBron didn't have a Scottie Pippen with him.   If Bron was able to come within 5 points of beating that Celtic team seemingly by himself... surely the 72 win Bulls team would have no trouble dealing with us.