Poll: Irving and Hayward, or KG and Ray

[blink]

KG completely changed the culture of the team.  Neither KI or GH is going to do that.

Not for the better.

Oh I disagree.  We were immeasurably better once we got KG.  If he hadn't have gotten injured we might have three peated.  He made everyone on the team better.

The day KG walked in we had a championship mentality and it really didn't change until the last year he was here right before he was traded.

I know, I was agreeing with you.  I said KI and GH won't change the culture for the better when figuring in the subtraction of Bradley, IT, and Crowder.  Plus Irving can be moody.

Oh my bad, I read what you wrote the other way.  After all of the signings and trades, the one guys who really hurts to lose for me was Bradley.  He was my fav player the last few years.  That one was a gut punch. 

[moiso]

KG completely changed the culture of the team.  Neither KI or GH is going to do that.

Not for the better.

Oh I disagree.  We were immeasurably better once we got KG.  If he hadn't have gotten injured we might have three peated.  He made everyone on the team better.

The day KG walked in we had a championship mentality and it really didn't change until the last year he was here right before he was traded.

I know, I was agreeing with you.  I said KI and GH won't change the culture for the better when figuring in the subtraction of Bradley, IT, and Crowder.  Plus Irving can be moody.

Oh my bad, I read what you wrote the other way.  After all of the signings and trades, the one guys who really hurts to lose for me was Bradley.  He was my fav player the last few years.  That one was a gut punch.

Yeah, those 3 were all great competitors.  Bradley was a great teammate and competitor.

[crimson_stallion]

Are you insane? 

In their primes KG was a 24/14/5 guy and a top 3 defender in the league, and Ray Allen was a 26 PPG scorer and possibly the best shooter in the entire NBA.

I can understand comparing Kyrie to Ray, but comparing KG to Hayward?  Man, that's borderline insulting to KG.

Not even in his own dreams is Hayward even close to KG.

Well to be a little more fair, Hayward is in his prime and KG never did better than 19 and 9 on the Celtics.  His second best year was like 16 and 8.  But he is a legend and Hayward is not yet.  And KG absolutely instantly changed the culture.

Yeah but KG had already proved that he was a 22-24 point, 12-14 rebound, 5-6 assist guy back in Minnesota when he was a #1 option.  When he put up 19/9 in Boston it was as a second option - he willingly took a back seat to Pierce because he was always a bit Lebron-like (unselfish to a fault).  His game didn't drop off, he just deferred more to others. He also won DPOTY in Boston and was among league leaders most of his career in both rebounding and blocks.

Hayward by comparison averaged 22 / 5 / 3  last year in Utah as the #1 option, and don't be surprised of those numbers drop next year when he's playing second fiddle to Kyrie.  Hayward also didn't rank among league leaders in any other categories, and is nowhere near the defensive player KG was.  Scoring output is literally the only single area in which Hayward can even begin to compete with KG - Kevin destroys him in every single other category (except 3PT shooting of course).

As I said Hayward is a very good player - but it's very clear that this offense is his top talent, and he doesn't really do anything else at an elite level.  KG was an elite scorer, passer (for a big), rebounder and defender.

[crimson_stallion]

Are you insane? 

In their primes KG was a 24/14/5 guy and a top 3 defender in the league, and Ray Allen was a 26 PPG scorer and possibly the best shooter in the entire NBA.

I can understand comparing Kyrie to Ray, but comparing KG to Hayward?  Man, that's borderline insulting to KG.

Not even in his own dreams is Hayward even close to KG.

 Nobody is factoring age. I guarantee Hayward and can Irving win two rings together. And Irving will be here for 7 years at least and Hayward probably the same.

 This is huge people. 7 prime years vs About two prime years. Now if KG we're 25 this would be a  no contest, but he wasn't he be was 31.

I wouldn't guarantee Kyrie and Hayward can win two rings together.  Kyrie hasn't even shown he can win a playoff game without Lebron, and last season was the first All-Star calibre season we've seen yet by Hayward (and he was motivated by it being a contract year).  We don't really know what we get from those two guys yet...

Also Hayward is 27-28 years old, so he does not have 7 prime years.  He has about 4 or 5 prime years..and will spend most of those prime years facing up against this nightmare of a Warriors team.

KG only dropped off as hard as he did because of injuries.  If not for that (which can haunt any player at any age) I would take a 31 year old KG over a 27 year old Gordon Hayward any day.

[KG Living Legend]

Are you insane? 

In their primes KG was a 24/14/5 guy and a top 3 defender in the league, and Ray Allen was a 26 PPG scorer and possibly the best shooter in the entire NBA.

I can understand comparing Kyrie to Ray, but comparing KG to Hayward?  Man, that's borderline insulting to KG.

Not even in his own dreams is Hayward even close to KG.

 Nobody is factoring age. I guarantee Hayward and can Irving win two rings together. And Irving will be here for 7 years at least and Hayward probably the same.

 This is huge people. 7 prime years vs About two prime years. Now if KG we're 25 this would be a  no contest, but he wasn't he be was 31.

I wouldn't guarantee Kyrie and Hayward can win two rings together.  Kyrie hasn't even shown he can win a playoff game without Lebron, and last season was the first All-Star calibre season we've seen yet by Hayward (and he was motivated by it being a contract year).  We don't really know what we get from those two guys yet...

Also Hayward is 27-28 years old, so he does not have 7 prime years.  He has about 4 or 5 prime years..and will spend most of those prime years facing up against this nightmare of a Warriors team.

KG only dropped off as hard as he did because of injuries.  If not for that (which can haunt any player at any age) I would take a 31 year old KG over a 27 year old Gordon Hayward any day.

 The fact that Irving and Hayward will have 5 prime years together is huge. Tatum and Brown and Smart plus another veteran or top five pick.

 They have two years left with Thompson and he's very likely gone to receive his last big paycheck at 29. I think they win the next two years in a row.

 At that point in two years Durant will be 30 and Curry is 31. At this point we are competing for the title every year.

 

[RockinRyA]

Irving and Hayward alone do not match KG's overall impact.

[mr. dee]

Re-up  this thread once Kyrie and Hayward wins with this current core.

[Greyman]

KG and Ray. I will change if Irving and Hayward can help the Celtics beat GSW.

[Roy H.]

I guarantee Hayward and can Irving win two rings together.

I would take that bet.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Apples and oranges comparison to me. thanks

[tazzmaniac]

I guarantee Hayward and can Irving win two rings together.

I would take that bet.

Me too.  No guarantee Irving doesn't leave in free agency in two years.  If the Warriors keep winning, I think their owner will keep their core together even with the huge luxury tax he'd be paying. 

[azzenfrost]

KG. Always.

[ederson]

KG. Always.

I wanted to post exactly the same.....

Unless the alternative includes Larry then it's KG whatever the other option and whoever is with him

[Sophomore]

Is that the right comp?

Shouldn't it be Irving and Hayward vs. Pierce and Allen?  I think that's about even, but I like Irving and Hayward better. Pierce over Hayward by a bit, but Irving should be a lot better than Ray. About the same shooting, but on another planet creating his own shot.

(If you really want to daydream, add Anthony Davis and KG to the comparison  ).

[Dino Pitino]

I think Kyrie, Gordon, Horford-from-the-playoffs is a decent overall approximation of Pierce, Ray, KG-post-injury.