Author Topic: Losing Is A Team Effort  (Read 8356 times)

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Losing Is A Team Effort
« on: April 27, 2008, 01:36:25 AM »

Offline Bahku

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First of all, this one hurts ... it's hard to swallow losing to a team like the Hawks, not because they're bad, but because we are a much better team ... in every aspect ... they know it, and we know it. All we needed to do tonight was play our game, nothing fancy, just stick to the swarming D and attacking offense we've had all year. No tricks ... no secret weapons, just good solid roundball.

That said, this loss just can't be laid on one person's shoulders ... no way. Everyone is important when we win, and everyone is to blame when we lose .. period. It amazes me that there is so much MORE activity on this blog after a loss than following a win. I don't think it's a bad thing, just curious that people are so much quicker to lay blame than they are to share in the joy of a victory. So be it ... human nature.

There are those waiting to land on Doc ... those waiting to defend him. Many want to blame the refs, and just as many want to defer from them. Many see certain players as being at fault, and those players have plenty of people who'll stick up for them. It's just human nature, and it's really what makes this blog go 'round. But it can never be that simple.

Winning in the NBA is a complicated, coordinated effort, relying on many talents at every level, and depending on the cohesiveness of all those elements to work together like a tight unit ... one cog turning another in smooth tandem. It's very easy to get "comfortable" when things go so smoothly, and it's easy to take for granted just how much has to go right for a team like the Celtics to have a season like they have this year.

I think we fall victim to that just a bit ... I know I do, and we don't really grasp that symphony of human initiative, until it begins to come apart ... like tonight. Winning is easy to get used to, it's what a good team is supposed to do ... it's what we expect of these guys, and when it happens, it feels right ... like the world is spinning the way it should. It doesn't really stand out in our minds as much, because, after so much struggling that we as humans do in our daily lives, to see something we love functioning the way it should, we're more than ready to place it in that sometimes short column of: "Life Is Good" ... and let it set for a while.

That's OK ... we need those things to balance us out, and to placate the negative energies and distractions that our lives are continually plagued with. It's nice to have something fall quite nicely into that "ahhhh ..." basket ... it happens far too infrequently, and we relish it, as we should. But there is one price to pay for that "Life Is Good" item, and it's the ever-irritating and relentless "other side" of the coin. Tonight was one of those inevitable "tails" sides, that we often refer to as wake-up calls. While they're a bit hard to take sometimes, they're unfortunately just as natural, and just as necessary.

First element involved: the officiating. The refereeing tonight was horrible. I know, there are many out there who want to think that it's all the team's fault, and that the refs are not accountable for their actions ... good or bad, but that's wrong. They're human, like we are ... they make mistakes and they should be accountable for them. I watched tonight, trying as hard as I could to be objective, (and I'm sure I came up short there), and what I saw was this: the refs were literally looking for every chance they could get to catch the Celtics at something ... anything. It was NOT happening at the other end, however, and that inbalance is a flaw in the game.

If officiating is going to be as objective as it can be, then the refs have got to assess the play on both ends of the floor with the same criteria, and with the same tools. That wasn't happening tonight ... not remotely. They were searching diligently for every small crack in the Celtics behavior to take advantage of, and they expounded on each one, with as much favor given to the Hawks' advantage as possible. The Celtics, however, had to literally get mugged, or bloody, to get a call in their favor, and it was obvious.

To those who look to bail the refs out of their responsibility, you've got to remember: they are as much a part or an element of this game as the players are, are just as human, and are just as accountable for their mistakes and biases. If you think that the NBA and it's officiating staffs have absolutely no agenda to lengthen these series, (if at all possible), or to make the games closer and more "evenly matched", then you need to take a little closer look. It happens ... and that's part of what was going on tonight ... clearly.

Second element involved: the coaching. Doc has been great this year ... near to genius in some aspects, I feel, and he deserved to be coaching in the All-Star Game. But the rotation tonight, especially in the fourth quarter, was not right. There were players in at times when they shouldn't have been, combinations that made very little sense or headway, time-outs and plays called that were extremely questionable, and just plain poor decisions made. At a point in the game where energy and consistency was crucial, Doc had players in who have had very little time together, or very little effectiveness in their past performances.

Now, here we go into the dreaded "Don't Mess With Doc" category, as there are a bunch of fans ready to defend him to the teeth, and that's admirable. I, myself, will defend Doc as vehemently as anyone if I feel he's been attacked unjustly. But, though I don't like saying it, he was as much at fault tonight as all the other elements. He's human, people, and despite the fact he's getting paid a ton of bucks, (deservedly), and there's this godlike respect in this league for the "hands-off" rule afforded the coaches, he makes mistakes ... and he made some tonight. It's going to happen, no matter how much love he gets.

Here's the thing, though: It's OK ... he can take a little responsibility and accountability ... he's a big boy, and he'll be fine. He's messed up before, and he'll do it again, and to think he's somehow above the errors of everyone else, is naive' ... and a bit silly. Doc is a great coach, and we're lucky to have him, but he made some poor decisions tonight, and if you didn't see them, then I suggest you watch games a little more objectively from now on ... it happens in every one. Enough about Doc, he's part of the loss ... move on.

Third element: the team. OK ... the Celts stunk tonight, and even if those are words forbidden in the coaching staff's direction, I think I'm safe using them here. They had no energy, no life, very little cohesiveness, and poor defense over all. The thing that has gotten them to this point in the season, totally let them down tonight. They made poor shot selections, poor decisions on picks, were confused at times, and didn't communicate well. There were flashes of greatness here and there, but no consistency on either end of the floor, and very little clean execution. While I think the rotation was a little confusing to them as well, they've got to take their knocks here ... it wasn't pretty.

We don't need pretty, or even perfection ... but we DO need them to play with heart, and spirit, and energy, and execute like they've been executing all year. This is the playoffs, and they played tonight's game with the urgency of the pre-season ... or even less. It's great that they got angry toward the end of the game, because I think they'll use that on Monday in a positive fashion. But it was too little too late, and just a last gasp. We saw a team tonight who, despite all efforts to the contrary, played like a win was a "given", and the young, athletic, and hungry opponent, who played like they had nothing to lose, was more than obliged to take advantage ... and that they did.

Fourth element: the "unknown" factor. This was one of the strangest games I've seen in a long time. I mean, that building is the worst! I can not count the times in the past when that stupid shot clock, (or one of them), has "malfunctioned". I'd even go so far as to accuse them of doing it on purpose, if it weren't such an obvious tack, (and so hard to prove). It changed the momentum, took the air out of the C's sail, and gave a young, over-burdened team a blow at a time when they sorely needed it. I feel a bit "small" to even suggest such a thing, but it's there nonetheless ... hanging like a cloud over Violet Palmer, (sorry ... just a wishful little fantasy there!). There were multiple times in this game where there were those strange little interruptions, and whatever you wanna think, it DOES make a difference, and it can affect a team negatively.

There are other factors, too, that we're all very familiar with, that can affect a team in unseen ways, as well as the obvious ... the fans, travel schedule, being in a "hostile" environment, even the food they eat before the game. The point I'm trying to make is that it's NEVER just one thing, or one person, that wins a game ... it's a TEAM thing. Losing is just as much a team thing, and I think we're quick to forget that, in our frantic efforts to find an answer to something so troubling. It's normal ... it's human, and it's OK.

But we've got to keep that in mind just as much while assessing losses, as we do when analyzing wins. It's fine to defend a player when you feel he's being attacked unfairly, or the coach, or the refs ... that's a good thing, and it's expected. But it's just as normal and acceptable to criticize those same people, as long as we do so in a collective way, an objective way, and keep in mind that that person isn't the ONLY thing responsible. We're all in this together, and we're all just trying to find the answers to a question that doesn't have a single, obvious resolution.

Nothing is simple in life, and this game was not a loss attributable to any one factor. For whatever reasons, the odds were against us tonight. Many things failed us, and many factors went into this nightmare we call "defeat". So, when someone says they blame Doc, or another says it was the refs' fault, or someone else claims it was your favorite player, just remember that they're entitled to that view, and that the person they're talking about is as much a part of this loss, as they are an element to every win. Are some MORE responsible than others? Most likely, yes ... but that's a decision better left to the fates. We're in this together, folks ... and that's just where our beloved Celtics need us.

Tomorrow is another day ... and the sun WILL shine again. It's no fluke that this team is where it is, and if I know nothing else, I know that our boys will be doing everything they can to turn this thing around, and will be "rebounding" in a big way. If I were the Hawks, I'd be a bit worried that the glare in the eyes of Pierce and Garnett, or the curl in Ray's lip, or the furrow in Perk's brow, is meant for their eminent demise. Go Celtics!

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 02:40:50 AM by Bahku »
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Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2008, 04:37:19 AM »

Offline blueygreen

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I'm lazy and haven't watched the whole game, but I agree with the general principle that we can't absolve any party from blame but we can't solely focus blame on one party either. So I'll TP ya. From what I've watched so far, we just really seemed to slack off though, especially on the defensive end.

Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2008, 06:45:01 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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we didn't play good.  None of these games are going to be easy.  Detroit is down 2-1 to Philly.  The Celtics will adjust and hopefully win this series.  They should win it if they focus and try.

Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2008, 07:40:37 AM »

Offline Yakmanev

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Losing is also a coaching effort. Doc got completely outmatched on this one and God help us, from Mike Woodson.

We have Eddie House, one of the better 3 point shooters in the league. Why in the hell did he not play him instead of alien faced Cassell. I mean if nobody is hitting there shot why not try the sharp shooting 3 point shooter on the bench. Duh!

We ain't going nowhere with this coach.




Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2008, 08:20:23 AM »

Offline Bankshot

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Losing is also a coaching effort. Doc got completely outmatched on this one and God help us, from Mike Woodson.

We have Eddie House, one of the better 3 point shooters in the league. Why in the hell did he not play him instead of alien faced Cassell. I mean if nobody is hitting there shot why not try the sharp shooting 3 point shooter on the bench. Duh!

We ain't going nowhere with this coach.

Agreed. I knew Doc was going to pull this crap in the playoffs!  When asked why House didn't play he said he was only going to play 2 point guards (meaning the backup point guard who helped him to a 66-16 record is out and Cassell is in?) He also said that no adjustments needed to be made, they just need to play their game.  Sound familiar?  He said the same thing during the 2005 playoffs.  How did no adjustments work out for him then?

I didn't look at minutes, but it appeared that PP and Rondo sat a long time in the 4th quarter.  You don't sit one of your best players that long in the playoffs! 

And why is PJ playing ahead of both Powe and Baby?  I don't understand what the heck Doc is doing.  Why isn't he  using the rotations that got him the best record in the league?! >:(



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Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2008, 08:55:46 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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This game was the perfect storm: poor shooting, lackadaisical effort, selfish play on offense and defense, bad coaching, ridiculous technological malfunctions (seriously, what team doesn't have at least a temporary backup shot clock?), and terrible officiating (I'm still wondering how that drive to the basket by Ray was an offensive foul, for instance).

The good thing is, it would be pretty impossible for a game to go worse than this for the Celts, and they were still at least competitive.  We'll close this one out at home in Game 5.

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Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 09:10:52 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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TP4U Bahku, as always a very eloquent, insightful, thoughtful and objective(at least as objective as any of us diehards can be) piece. And I agree that when anything has failed to accomplsh a certain goal that it is a myriad of different things that contributed to that failure. Humanity is not math where there is only one or two variables and everything else is a constant. Everything is varable in life and that's why the score of every game is not exactly the same.

As for the external factors they definitely played a factor in this game. Basketball, maybe moree than any other sport is a game of momentum and going into the half the Celtics definitely owned the mo. But that shot clock fiasco just drained whatever coached up and internally psyched up energy and momentum that the players had coming out of the lockerroom. The momentum swung back into Atlanta's direction and was there long enough to secure a win.

As for the refereeing it was atrocius. Period. I don't want to discuss it further but I will. I rewatched the game because I missed a large chunck of the first half and I gotta say that I don't see the vehemence that went mostly in Violet Palmer's direction in the game thread. Both refs were equally atrocious and in the first half they were bad both ways. But that second half is another thing. What was a foul on one end just was not a foul on the other. How the league and the Director of Officials couldn't see this upon a review of this game would be beyond me. But sadly nothing will become of it.

Let's talk about Doc. As most of you already know I am a Doc supporter and I am glad that he decided to whittle down the rotation and sit Tony Allen. Eddie House is another matter. But not in the way that most are looking at it. I don't see it as a decision between Sam and Eddie. I think his mistake is in going with P. J. Brown over Eddie. IMO Sam and Eddie would make a pretty good backcourt to spell Rondo and Ray for 8-10 minutes per game. I also think that Brown has shown very little in the time he has been here and doesn't deserve the spot. Leon and Baby have and do.

Also, Doc had a bad game. The players were not ready to play the game as a whole and the second half at all. That falls on the coach. He got so caught up in the shot clock matter that he failed to see how it was effecting his team. At the very least he should have delegated some authority to Coach Thibodeau to keep the players together and go over the mental aspects of what they wanted to do in the second half. Big mistake. His substitutions were fairly in line with what he has been doing most of the season, although he did give Pierce a questionablely long rest in the second half, but maybe he knew something about Paul's health that we didn't and will never find out. Also he went too long with Cassell. 16 minutes for Sam is too much. This team needs Rondo out there 38-40 minutes a game.

Doc also infuriated me with his post game press conference. He had a rather similar one after a regular season loss and it was brought up on this site and I defended him. Not this time, this is the playoffs.

He just seemed rather laisse-faire about the outcome and was joking and laughing with the press at the end of the session. If Bill Belichick was a basketball coach I just couldn't envision him having this type of demeanor after a playoff loss. Different guys, sure, but Doc, this is the playoffs and you have never been to the second round. Take this setback a bit more to heart and never show this side of yourself after a bad game. It just sends the wrong message and encourages those detractors that will call for your head if the Celtics are eliminated.

Now the players. Except for Big Baby and Garnett, no one came to play. The defensive rotations were awful. The blitzes on the pick and roll horrible. The perimeter defense laughable. And the general effeort bad. On the offensive side I will say that Doc had this right. Everyone tried to win the game all by themselves. Selfish basketball all around. The threes that were clanking off the rim in the second half were for the most part ill advised and the absolute wrong way to get back in the game.

It was just a very poor effort from this group, something, as I said in the game thread, that I misjudged this team on. I thought they had a more consistent killer instinct than this effort showed yesterday. Bad, bad game for the players.

Now all of these things contributed to the loss but, without saying the percentage of each, this would be my ranking of what factors had the biggest effect on losing this game.

1.) The players - they should be held accountable for the effort they produced.
2.) Atlanta - give them credit they played a great game and had the shots dropping, even the tough ones with someone in their faces.
3.) The shot clock fiasco to start the second half - as I said, a momentum killer.
4.) Doc - bad handling of the shot clock problem and poor player preparation for the first half.
5.) The officials - as bad as it was this team has overcome horrible refs this year to pull out wins. I just think as bad as they were the referees just did not effect the outcome of the game as much as some would view it.
6.) The crowd and PA guy - the PA guy was incredibly lopsided in this counting down of the shot clock and was constantly urging crowd participation. And the crowd responded and kept the team invigorated. Good for them. I wish the Garden crowd appeared that raucous in game 1.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 09:24:30 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2008, 09:15:06 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I am most disappointed that no one (coach or player) stepped up and showed the leadership. 


That whole 3rd quarter delay, someone needed to get the players together and keep them mentally prep and their energy up.  Instead, they were just lounging around and shooting the breeze.   







And can there please be a set playoff rotation.  Stop the jerking players around.  Give them roles, and play those roles every game. 




The good, Boston will be up for the 2nd game in Atlanta, and the Boston crowd will have them up at home. 

Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2008, 09:25:22 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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And can there please be a set playoff rotation.  Stop the jerking players around.  Give them roles, and play those roles every game.

Yeah, I tend to agree.  This is one of the things Doc should have been using the last few games of the regular season to establish.  His supporters reassured us all that Doc would do so, and he didn't.  The supporters assured us that Atlanta would be a warm-up series where Doc could get his rotations in order, and that hasn't happened. 

I'm not blaming the loss on rotations, but that particular concern could bit us in a big, big way in potential later rounds of the playoffs.


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Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2008, 09:31:07 AM »

Offline Redz

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And can there please be a set playoff rotation.  Stop the jerking players around.  Give them roles, and play those roles every game.

Yeah, I tend to agree.  This is one of the things Doc should have been using the last few games of the regular season to establish.  His supporters reassured us all that Doc would do so, and he didn't.  The supporters assured us that Atlanta would be a warm-up series where Doc could get his rotations in order, and that hasn't happened. 

I'm not blaming the loss on rotations, but that particular concern could bit us in a big, big way in potential later rounds of the playoffs.


Seems to me there is a much firmer rotation than we've seen all season.  Just ask House & TA.  If you want to argue that the rotation Doc has stuck to didn't work well last night, then great, but I think there's been a pretty set rotation (with maybe the exception of Big Baby and Powe flip-flopping)
Yup

Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2008, 09:34:27 AM »

Offline Scott

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First off, great post Bahku, TP.

Quote
It's very easy to get "comfortable" when things go so smoothly, and it's easy to take for granted just how much has to go right for a team like the Celtics to have a season like they have this year.

I think we fall victim to that just a bit ... I know I do, and we don't really grasp that symphony of human initiative, until it begins to come apart ... like tonight.

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  After two victories by about 20 points it's very easy to fall into that comfort zone and become complacent.  And while I agree there were a multiple of factors, the biggest thing was that the Celtics didn't come out with any sense of urgency.  You cannot come into a game, especially a playoff game, and take an opponent for granted no matter who it is because it will come back and bite you.

I know a lot of us expected a sweep but I figured if we were going to lose one, this one would have been the one.  The Hawks played pretty poorly in the first two games and they have been shredded in the national media for not standing a chance.  Pretty much every analyst out there has called for an easy sweep. This was also their first playoff game at home for most of their players, and the first since 98-99 for the franchise.

So Atlanta had "bulletin board material" all around them.  They were hungry to prove to their fans, the media, and the Celtics that they are a playoff team and deserve to be there and that they cannot just be written off. 

That doesn’t sound like a team you want to come out flat against.  I am sure this will serve as a wake up call to the Celtics.

Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2008, 09:37:43 AM »

Offline Yakmanev

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Not to mention it's never good to have to play unnecessary games. And  Game 5 vs Atlanta is unnecessary!

I hope they don't start the "we've got a game to play with" mentality.

as far as rotations, If it ain't broke don't fix it. I see nothing wrong with going with what got you 66 wins.

So far PJ and Cassell have been big mistakes. VERY BIG! If it were me they would be nothing more than emergency injury backups.



Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2008, 09:48:28 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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And can there please be a set playoff rotation.  Stop the jerking players around.  Give them roles, and play those roles every game.

Yeah, I tend to agree.  This is one of the things Doc should have been using the last few games of the regular season to establish.  His supporters reassured us all that Doc would do so, and he didn't.  The supporters assured us that Atlanta would be a warm-up series where Doc could get his rotations in order, and that hasn't happened. 

I'm not blaming the loss on rotations, but that particular concern could bit us in a big, big way in potential later rounds of the playoffs.


Seems to me there is a much firmer rotation than we've seen all season.  Just ask House & TA.  If you want to argue that the rotation Doc has stuck to didn't work well last night, then great, but I think there's been a pretty set rotation (with maybe the exception of Big Baby and Powe flip-flopping)

Eh...  one game Powe plays 24 minutes, in another he plays 6.  In one game BBD gets 3 minutes, in another he gets 16.  There's that problem.  Another is that Doc's idea of a rotation is ridiculous.  If you're going to go away from what got you there all season, that's fine.  However, don't continue to play all 12 guys every game, and don't decide to suddenly give consistent (if limited) minutes to guys who didn't make much of a contribution (Brown) while limiting those of guys who were keys to the season (House, to some extent Powe).  Lastly, if Doc was going to go with this odd rotation that he's playing with now, wouldn't the regular season have been a good time to use it, rather than in the playoffs for the first time?

Doc is butchering the rotation / playing time in the playoffs, and unfortunately, it's leading to gripes.  Eddie House, for instance, suggested that his lack of playing time hasn't been explained to him by Doc.  That's not good coaching.

Again: it's not the reason for last night's loss (and maybe this should even be its own thread).  However, it's a concern going forward.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 10:01:10 AM by Roy Hobbs »

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Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2008, 09:56:00 AM »

Offline WedmanIsMyHero

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I was at a place last night where I could not listen to the coverage but could see the game.  I was worried Powe might be injured.  Powe is one of *the* most important Celtics according to the Hollinger ratings on ESPN, etc.  Why is Doc still screwing around with his minutes?

Re: Losing Is A Team Effort
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2008, 10:06:52 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't have a problem with last night's flip of minutes with Powe and Baby. One thing those two have shown is they can be wildly inconsistent, although less so for Powe in the second half of the season. Last night Powe showed nothing. Zip. Zero. He didn't have it.

So what's wrong with going to another option? Some would call it jerking around. I say it's foolhardy on Doc's part to continue to play a player in a game where he obviously is struggling or not giving it his all.

I hate P. J. Brown in the rotation and I think the rotation of 10 is too big, but if he must go with 10, Doc should be going with Eddie and not Brown. Have a little more confidence in Perk, Doc and play him more and that will make Brown unnecessary.

I think Redz is correct in that Doc seemed to take out his top 7 players at similar times as he usually does and play them about the same minutes. But that's not good enough. His best should be on the floor more in the playoffs, I mean isn't that the reason for cutting back there minutes during theseason and especially in the last 10 games.

All questionable stuff. And this from a Doc supporter. This stuff needs to be ironed out before Cleveland, Detroit and/or Orlando come to town.