Where are Eddie House & TAllen

[Jon]

Has Eddie been better than Cassell?  Maybe in appearance, but the second unit has gotten by a lot this year on hustle plays against poorer second units.  That won't happen in the later round of the playoffs where a) there are better teams, and b) second units really don't exist as starters play most of the minutes.  Flat out, Cassell is a better player, regardless of performance on the C's this year, and Doc needs to try to get him up to speed for the Finals.  House can be easily pressure in a full court press; teams will exploit that in later rounds.  It doesn't matter what he could be doing against the Hawks. 

I see. Even though he hasn't produced well in the majority of his games, and the numbers don't back your statement up this year, Sam is better. Sam WAS better. There isn't one thing you can point to that Sam does better than House since he has been there. There are numerous things House does better. If you choose to remember the old Sam vs. focusing on what he currently brings then there isn't much to talk about.

As far as pressuring the ball, House hasn't had a problem with their second unit pg pressure for over a half a season. He now pushes the ball up the floor instead of getting trapped with it. Problem solved.

I am really not sure how people overlook all the negative things Sam does and just focus on that once upon a time he used to be a complete pg. Other than a couple games this year he has a net negative effect on the team. Sure he does a few things here and there well, but they don't offset the other. House has negatives too, but he has so many more positives that he is currently the better player of the two. Plain fact is that the big thing everyone says is Sams strength, his offense, is a bigger strength of House's.

Who's a better player may be debatable, who's more useful isn't.  Against the Hawks, House might actually be the better choice.  They're a poor defensive team who isn't nearly as good as the C's.  However, when we start playing the Detroits and Western powers in the later rounds, things won't be so easy.  A team like Detroit, particularly in a 7 game series, is going to eat Eddie House alive.  They already showed they can do that in the first game this season.

So maybe you're right, maybe Eddie House has outplayed Sam Cassell up to this point.  However, if we want to make sure that we have a point guard who can break a press on the floor at all times, then Doc is doing the right thing preparing Cassell for that situation in this series. 

[liam]

Has Eddie been better than Cassell?  Maybe in appearance, but the second unit has gotten by a lot this year on hustle plays against poorer second units.  That won't happen in the later round of the playoffs where a) there are better teams, and b) second units really don't exist as starters play most of the minutes.  Flat out, Cassell is a better player, regardless of performance on the C's this year, and Doc needs to try to get him up to speed for the Finals.  House can be easily pressure in a full court press; teams will exploit that in later rounds.  It doesn't matter what he could be doing against the Hawks. 

I see. Even though he hasn't produced well in the majority of his games, and the numbers don't back your statement up this year, Sam is better. Sam WAS better. There isn't one thing you can point to that Sam does better than House since he has been there. There are numerous things House does better. If you choose to remember the old Sam vs. focusing on what he currently brings then there isn't much to talk about.

As far as pressuring the ball, House hasn't had a problem with their second unit pg pressure for over a half a season. He now pushes the ball up the floor instead of getting trapped with it. Problem solved.

I am really not sure how people overlook all the negative things Sam does and just focus on that once upon a time he used to be a complete pg. Other than a couple games this year he has a net negative effect on the team. Sure he does a few things here and there well, but they don't offset the other. House has negatives too, but he has so many more positives that he is currently the better player of the two. Plain fact is that the big thing everyone says is Sams strength, his offense, is a bigger strength of House's.

Whose a better player may be debatable, who's is more useful isn't.  Against the Hawks, House might actually be the better choice.  They're a poor defensive team who isn't nearly as good as the C's.  However, when we start playing the Detroits and Western powers in the later rounds, things won't be so easy.  A team like Detroit, particularly in a 7 game series, is going to eat Eddie House alive.  They already showed they can do that in the first game this season.

So maybe you're right, maybe Eddie House has outplayed Sam Cassell up to this point.  However, if we want to make sure that we have a point guard who can break a press on the floor at all times, then Doc is doing the right thing preparing Cassell for that situation in this series. 

Good Points. Plus House already knows how to play with the team if we need him, Cassell needs the court time.

[EJPLAYA]

hehe true, i stuck to matchups though, for some reason that thread got me riled up to ridiculous degrees, and if there's any hard feelings i apologize 

but yea, I trust doc to stay on top of the matchups, and i'm right on board with you that i'd like to see more eddie over same vs both the wiz and cavs.

one lineup i wouldn't mind is the rondo sam lineup, that lineup gives us an intersting look. i wouldn't want to see it for long stretchs, but to get ray out for the final 2 minutes or so of a quarter, that wouldn't be a bad change up.

No hard feelings here! I agree actually with the Rondo/Cassell idea. The only time I truly thought he was playing at a level valuable to the team with us was that stretch he played as the two with Rondo at the point.

[EJPLAYA]

Has Eddie been better than Cassell?  Maybe in appearance, but the second unit has gotten by a lot this year on hustle plays against poorer second units.  That won't happen in the later round of the playoffs where a) there are better teams, and b) second units really don't exist as starters play most of the minutes.  Flat out, Cassell is a better player, regardless of performance on the C's this year, and Doc needs to try to get him up to speed for the Finals.  House can be easily pressure in a full court press; teams will exploit that in later rounds.  It doesn't matter what he could be doing against the Hawks. 

I see. Even though he hasn't produced well in the majority of his games, and the numbers don't back your statement up this year, Sam is better. Sam WAS better. There isn't one thing you can point to that Sam does better than House since he has been there. There are numerous things House does better. If you choose to remember the old Sam vs. focusing on what he currently brings then there isn't much to talk about.

As far as pressuring the ball, House hasn't had a problem with their second unit pg pressure for over a half a season. He now pushes the ball up the floor instead of getting trapped with it. Problem solved.

I am really not sure how people overlook all the negative things Sam does and just focus on that once upon a time he used to be a complete pg. Other than a couple games this year he has a net negative effect on the team. Sure he does a few things here and there well, but they don't offset the other. House has negatives too, but he has so many more positives that he is currently the better player of the two. Plain fact is that the big thing everyone says is Sams strength, his offense, is a bigger strength of House's.

Whose a better player may be debatable, who's is more useful isn't.  Against the Hawks, House might actually be the better choice.  They're a poor defensive team who isn't nearly as good as the C's.  However, when we start playing the Detroits and Western powers in the later rounds, things won't be so easy.  A team like Detroit, particularly in a 7 game series, is going to eat Eddie House alive.  They already showed they can do that in the first game this season.

So maybe you're right, maybe Eddie House has outplayed Sam Cassell up to this point.  However, if we want to make sure that we have a point guard who can break a press on the floor at all times, then Doc is doing the right thing preparing Cassell for that situation in this series. 

All right. Here's a question then. #1 is if the infamous Detroit game was such a big debacle, then how come House only had 1 turnover and KG and PP had 9 combined. It seems to me that the numbers don't quite back your statement. I am not saying they didn't press House well and he had some trouble that game bringing it up. What I am saying is that games 2-3 vs. Detroit they didn't press him because he did a better job pushing the ball up the floor with the pass vs. trying to dribble it up. Problem solved. THIS is why I don't agree with the whole House can't bring the ball up notion.

The second thought is that if Doc is content having Sam come in and just getting his own shot, then he needs no preparation for that. Sam is a veteran who has done this his whole career. If you are going to look for your shot the first, second, and third option, then getting used to and fitting in with your teammates is a non issue. No one needs practice to jack shots up at will. If he doesn't know how to play like that by now then he never will. Sam KNOWS how to fire it up. He could stay away from the game for 10 years and come right back in and launch shots.

Ride the horse that got you there. Especially if the one you're thinking about switching to is an old nag...

[BudweiserCeltic]

Has Eddie been better than Cassell?  Maybe in appearance, but the second unit has gotten by a lot this year on hustle plays against poorer second units.  That won't happen in the later round of the playoffs where a) there are better teams, and b) second units really don't exist as starters play most of the minutes.  Flat out, Cassell is a better player, regardless of performance on the C's this year, and Doc needs to try to get him up to speed for the Finals.  House can be easily pressure in a full court press; teams will exploit that in later rounds.  It doesn't matter what he could be doing against the Hawks. 

I see. Even though he hasn't produced well in the majority of his games, and the numbers don't back your statement up this year, Sam is better. Sam WAS better. There isn't one thing you can point to that Sam does better than House since he has been there. There are numerous things House does better. If you choose to remember the old Sam vs. focusing on what he currently brings then there isn't much to talk about.

As far as pressuring the ball, House hasn't had a problem with their second unit pg pressure for over a half a season. He now pushes the ball up the floor instead of getting trapped with it. Problem solved.

I am really not sure how people overlook all the negative things Sam does and just focus on that once upon a time he used to be a complete pg. Other than a couple games this year he has a net negative effect on the team. Sure he does a few things here and there well, but they don't offset the other. House has negatives too, but he has so many more positives that he is currently the better player of the two. Plain fact is that the big thing everyone says is Sams strength, his offense, is a bigger strength of House's.

Whose a better player may be debatable, who's is more useful isn't.  Against the Hawks, House might actually be the better choice.  They're a poor defensive team who isn't nearly as good as the C's.  However, when we start playing the Detroits and Western powers in the later rounds, things won't be so easy.  A team like Detroit, particularly in a 7 game series, is going to eat Eddie House alive.  They already showed they can do that in the first game this season.

So maybe you're right, maybe Eddie House has outplayed Sam Cassell up to this point.  However, if we want to make sure that we have a point guard who can break a press on the floor at all times, then Doc is doing the right thing preparing Cassell for that situation in this series. 

All right. Here's a question then. #1 is if the infamous Detroit game was such a big debacle, then how come House only had 1 turnover and KG and PP had 9 combined. It seems to me that the numbers don't quite back your statement. I am not saying they didn't press House well and he had some trouble that game bringing it up. What I am saying is that games 2-3 vs. Detroit they didn't press him because he did a better job pushing the ball up the floor with the pass vs. trying to dribble it up. Problem solved. THIS is why I don't agree with the whole House can't bring the ball up notion.

The second thought is that if Doc is content having Sam come in and just getting his own shot, then he needs no preparation for that. Sam is a veteran who has done this his whole career. If you are going to look for your shot the first, second, and third option, then getting used to and fitting in with your teammates is a non issue. No one needs practice to jack shots up at will. If he doesn't know how to play like that by now then he never will. Sam KNOWS how to fire it up. He could stay away from the game for 10 years and come right back in and launch shots.

Ride the horse that got you there. Especially if the one you're thinking about switching to is an old nag...

First of all, they handed the assignment of bringing the ball down to someone else than House because he was having trouble getting it to the half court.  Secondly, the main problem was the system that was being used to break the press.  That's the reason why they stopped pressing, not because House suddenly could handle the ball, but because the Celtics as a team were doing a better job breaking the press.  Also, Lindsay Hunter was injured for games 2 and 3. That's a HUGE factor.

[Jon]

Has Eddie been better than Cassell?  Maybe in appearance, but the second unit has gotten by a lot this year on hustle plays against poorer second units.  That won't happen in the later round of the playoffs where a) there are better teams, and b) second units really don't exist as starters play most of the minutes.  Flat out, Cassell is a better player, regardless of performance on the C's this year, and Doc needs to try to get him up to speed for the Finals.  House can be easily pressure in a full court press; teams will exploit that in later rounds.  It doesn't matter what he could be doing against the Hawks. 

I see. Even though he hasn't produced well in the majority of his games, and the numbers don't back your statement up this year, Sam is better. Sam WAS better. There isn't one thing you can point to that Sam does better than House since he has been there. There are numerous things House does better. If you choose to remember the old Sam vs. focusing on what he currently brings then there isn't much to talk about.

As far as pressuring the ball, House hasn't had a problem with their second unit pg pressure for over a half a season. He now pushes the ball up the floor instead of getting trapped with it. Problem solved.

I am really not sure how people overlook all the negative things Sam does and just focus on that once upon a time he used to be a complete pg. Other than a couple games this year he has a net negative effect on the team. Sure he does a few things here and there well, but they don't offset the other. House has negatives too, but he has so many more positives that he is currently the better player of the two. Plain fact is that the big thing everyone says is Sams strength, his offense, is a bigger strength of House's.

Whose a better player may be debatable, who's is more useful isn't.  Against the Hawks, House might actually be the better choice.  They're a poor defensive team who isn't nearly as good as the C's.  However, when we start playing the Detroits and Western powers in the later rounds, things won't be so easy.  A team like Detroit, particularly in a 7 game series, is going to eat Eddie House alive.  They already showed they can do that in the first game this season.

So maybe you're right, maybe Eddie House has outplayed Sam Cassell up to this point.  However, if we want to make sure that we have a point guard who can break a press on the floor at all times, then Doc is doing the right thing preparing Cassell for that situation in this series. 

All right. Here's a question then. #1 is if the infamous Detroit game was such a big debacle, then how come House only had 1 turnover and KG and PP had 9 combined. It seems to me that the numbers don't quite back your statement. I am not saying they didn't press House well and he had some trouble that game bringing it up. What I am saying is that games 2-3 vs. Detroit they didn't press him because he did a better job pushing the ball up the floor with the pass vs. trying to dribble it up. Problem solved. THIS is why I don't agree with the whole House can't bring the ball up notion.

The second thought is that if Doc is content having Sam come in and just getting his own shot, then he needs no preparation for that. Sam is a veteran who has done this his whole career. If you are going to look for your shot the first, second, and third option, then getting used to and fitting in with your teammates is a non issue. No one needs practice to jack shots up at will. If he doesn't know how to play like that by now then he never will. Sam KNOWS how to fire it up. He could stay away from the game for 10 years and come right back in and launch shots.

Ride the horse that got you there. Especially if the one you're thinking about switching to is an old nag...

First of all, they handed the assignment of bringing the ball down to someone else than House because he was having trouble getting it to the half court.  Secondly, the main problem was the system that was being used to break the press.  That's the reason why they stopped pressing, not because House suddenly could handle the ball, but because the Celtics as a team were doing a better job breaking the press.  Also, Lindsay Hunter was injured for games 2 and 3. That's a HUGE factor.

Exactly.  Plus, a seven game series is entirely different.  If House had trouble doing it all during the year, they'll certainly exploit that much more in a series. 

Regardless of what any of us think, it appears that Doc has made his choice.  Barring an injury or something else radical, Cassell will be the backup PG throughout the playoffs.

[Frontierboy]

I personally like where TA is right now...... on the bench where he should be.

Eddie, however, should be getting more minutes.  His minutes are actually going to Posey as Sam's minutes are actually down from the regular season.  The rotation needs to be:

Rondo--->Sam
Ray---> House
Pierce----> Posey
KG----> PJ
Kendrick----> Powe

That leaves Baby, TA, Scal, Pruitt warming the bench as it should be

[crownsy]

kendrick= pj. leon doesn't have the height to play center for long stretches. Leon is KG's backup at PF.

[RebusRankin]

I'm fine with the amount of time both have received thus far. To answer the question about the first Detroit game, Detroit got back in the end of the third/start of the fourth with House in at pg when he repeatedly couldn't break a press.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The other thing, if not mistaken, they've been using Paul Pierce as a SG through the series a couple of times, with Posey as the 3, Garnett/Powe/Davis at the 4, and Garnett/Perk/PJ at the 5.

[jay_jay54]

Like some teams,that have a set rotation,throughout the playoffs,Doc doesn't...he is adjusting to the game situation,it seems.I think House and TA will eventually see some playing time,depending on who  we are playing(game situation), who is not producing for the C's at that time.I see Doc.going by what he feels is working best for each series,so House im thinking will be in the rotation down the road.TA will probably get some playing time,if Sam,House are not effective.Just like BBD got some playing time in game 2,who expected that?I think its a game to game decision which subs are going to play the most amount of minutes.I see Doc.feeling it out as he goes alone,to who is HOT and who is not.Our bench is more interchangable than most,whereas we are a lot stronger and deeper bench wise than most teams.Doc has that flexibility of using more players .. .example:Hornets,very good team 1-8,but thats about it,whereas we are good probably 1-10 the least.   

[Jon]

I personally like where TA is right now...... on the bench where he should be.

Eddie, however, should be getting more minutes.  His minutes are actually going to Posey as Sam's minutes are actually down from the regular season.  The rotation needs to be:

Rondo--->Sam
Ray---> House
Pierce----> Posey
KG----> PJ
Kendrick----> Powe

That leaves Baby, TA, Scal, Pruitt warming the bench as it should be

But why give House the backup minutes at the SG spot when Posey can backup both  the SG/SF spot?  Posey's a superior defender, has much better size, and in my opinion, is the overall better player.  Plus, once we start playing real teams (i.e., not Atlanta), the minutes available backing up Allen and Pierce are going to be small.  Outside of not wanting to hurt House's feelings, I see no reason why he should be getting more minutes than he is now.  Both Cassell and Posey are better than him and are more than capable of playing the relatively small amount of minutes available at the 1, 2, and 3 spots that Rondo, Allen, and Pierce don't play.

This isn't Little League; everyone doesn't have to play.  These are grown men making a ton of money.  They can deal with sitting on the bench. 

[EJPLAYA]

I personally like where TA is right now...... on the bench where he should be.

Eddie, however, should be getting more minutes.  His minutes are actually going to Posey as Sam's minutes are actually down from the regular season.  The rotation needs to be:

Rondo--->Sam
Ray---> House
Pierce----> Posey
KG----> PJ
Kendrick----> Powe

That leaves Baby, TA, Scal, Pruitt warming the bench as it should be

But why give House the backup minutes at the SG spot when Posey can backup both  the SG/SF spot?  Posey's a superior defender, has much better size, and in my opinion, is the overall better player.  Plus, once we start playing real teams (i.e., not Atlanta), the minutes available backing up Allen and Pierce are going to be small.  Outside of not wanting to hurt House's feelings, I see no reason why he should be getting more minutes than he is now.  Both Cassell and Posey are better than him and are more than capable of playing the relatively small amount of minutes available at the 1, 2, and 3 spots that Rondo, Allen, and Pierce don't play.

This isn't Little League; everyone doesn't have to play.  These are grown men making a ton of money.  They can deal with sitting on the bench. 

The argument is that many of us don't feel Sam is better than House which you state in here like it is not in question. We think House brings more overall to the floor than Sam. I don't care about House's "feelings" other than I do want the guy to play for us next year. If Doc keeps him on the bench through the playoffs then there won't be a whole lot of positives in his mind about coming back. That would be a big loss. Guys who can shoot like House aren't out there much.

[kenmaine]

TA has earned his place on the bench, unfortunately. I like the guy, he's just too mistake prone.
E. House, on the other hand should probably be playing more. But so far, things are going so well that it's hard to complain about the rotation.
I have to agree that it's NOT a no-brainer that Cassell brings more than House. Yes, Sam is amazing one-on-one and at getting his shot, but House is probably better at every other aspect of the game. I know that's heresy, but it's my opinion based solely on watching them both play this year, not based on the past.
Anyway, it's pretty much a win-win situation for the C's. The bench is so deep and everyone can actually play.
Now we just have to get by the Sixers to get to the finals

[pearljammer10]

Let em rest until we need them...Them not playing hasnt hurt us yet.