Derrick White extension?

[smokeablount]

Team has until 10/23 to extend White, sounds like they are having some conversations. He still has two years left.

https://www.celticsblog.com/platform/amp/2023/10/16/23919218/boston-celtics-derrick-white-contract-extension-brad-stevens

[Kernewek]

Seems like an absolute no brainer to me, a person with no responsibility towards balancing the team's cap or finances.

[smokeablount]

Seems like an absolute no brainer to me, a person with no responsibility towards balancing the team's cap or finances.

As a STH I would no doubt help finance this (ticket prices rose 18% this year), I’m also a known cheapskate… and it still seems like a no brainer. How can you not love DWhite?

[smokeablount]

The new spending penalties, second apron, etc might prevent teams from building up a super team these days. But the Celtics were already well underway on that course when these changes were announced. Too late to turn back now.

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster. If they just brought everyone back and spent money Warriors style, would there even be another team in the league capable of keeping up with our spending / bringing in this much high level talent?

We could have the highest bill and the most talent, and it would be difficult for another team to even be allowed to spend that much on good value contracts.

The Warriors are already at that stage, but are on the decline and not on the rise like the Celtics.

Just pondering the market at large. The Celtics have assembled the most talent and can resign everyone if they want, at a time when it is very difficult for the top teams to have good assets and room to maneuver below the 2nd apron when it comes to all star players.

[Donoghus]

Definite no brainer.  Get it done.

[Roy H.]

Nice article in the Athletic, which started about D.Lo but was mostly about White:

https://theathletic.com/4968732/2023/10/17/dangelo-russell-lakers-derrick-white-celtics/

“My inspiration has been Derrick White,” Russell said. “I want to be Derrick White. He doesn’t get a lot of credit for what he does. He makes all the winning plays. That’s who I want to be.” White said one of his friends texted him Russell’s comments late Sunday night. “I woke up to it and I was shocked, really,” White told The Athletic. “Obviously D-Lo’s an All-Star, has done a lot of great things in this league, a highly talented player. So it’s cool to get recognized like that, especially by a guy who’s done so much in the league like he has.” – via Jay King, Jovan Buha, Jovan Buha and Jay King @ The Athletic

[Vermont Green]

The new spending penalties, second apron, etc might prevent teams from building up a super team these days. But the Celtics were already well underway on that course when these changes were announced. Too late to turn back now.

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster. If they just brought everyone back and spent money Warriors style, would there even be another team in the league capable of keeping up with our spending / bringing in this much high level talent?

We could have the highest bill and the most talent, and it would be difficult for another team to even be allowed to spend that much on good value contracts.

The Warriors are already at that stage, but are on the decline and not on the rise like the Celtics.

Just pondering the market at large. The Celtics have assembled the most talent and can resign everyone if they want, at a time when it is very difficult for the top teams to have good assets and room to maneuver below the 2nd apron when it comes to all star players.

Yeah, in the "old days" a team could just extend a player like White to top dollar, like GSW did with Poole or MIA with Herro.  I questioned both of those signings, but that is what teams were doing to keep their players.  Now that Brogdon and Smart are both gone (of course Holiday is now here), it makes sense to  try and extend White. 

But I am not for overpaying for a player like White.  Poole ended up getting dumped for Chris Paul (considered a bad contract).  No one wanted Herro.  If White is signed to a fair contract, then we might be able to trade him for something of value down the road.  Overpay him and it limits your flexibility.  We are going to be over the second apron in any case.  Paying tax is paying tax but no need to be reckless about it.  But the worst thing is having a bad contract taking up space.

White is locked up this season and next.  If he will accept a fair, team friendly extension, great.  If not, it doesn't mean he is gone.  White has to decide.  Even worst case, the team friendly extension will set him for life.  If we wants to maximize earnings, totally his prerogative, then he can play out this contract and hit the FA market in 2 years.

It is true that if we lose White in 2 seasons, it will be hard to replace him via FA signings.  It would have to be a draft pick we develop or something like that.  So I do get that aspect of this.  It is a real advantage to be able to keep him even while over the second apron so it is not nothing to give up that advantage.

[Kernewek]

The new spending penalties, second apron, etc might prevent teams from building up a super team these days. But the Celtics were already well underway on that course when these changes were announced. Too late to turn back now.

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster. If they just brought everyone back and spent money Warriors style, would there even be another team in the league capable of keeping up with our spending / bringing in this much high level talent?

We could have the highest bill and the most talent, and it would be difficult for another team to even be allowed to spend that much on good value contracts.

The Warriors are already at that stage, but are on the decline and not on the rise like the Celtics.

Just pondering the market at large. The Celtics have assembled the most talent and can resign everyone if they want, at a time when it is very difficult for the top teams to have good assets and room to maneuver below the 2nd apron when it comes to all star players.

Yeah, in the "old days" a team could just extend a player like White to top dollar, like GSW did with Poole or MIA with Herro.  I questioned both of those signings, but that is what teams were doing to keep their players.  Now that Brogdon and Smart are both gone (of course Holiday is now here), it makes sense to  try and extend White. 

But I am not for overpaying for a player like White.  Poole ended up getting dumped for Chris Paul (considered a bad contract).  No one wanted Herro.  If White is signed to a fair contract, then we might be able to trade him for something of value down the road.  Overpay him and it limits your flexibility.  We are going to be over the second apron in any case.  Paying tax is paying tax but no need to be reckless about it.  But the worst thing is having a bad contract taking up space.

White is locked up this season and next.  If he will accept a fair, team friendly extension, great.  If not, it doesn't mean he is gone.  White has to decide.  Even worst case, the team friendly extension will set him for life.  If we wants to maximize earnings, totally his prerogative, then he can play out this contract and hit the FA market in 2 years.

It is true that if we lose White in 2 seasons, it will be hard to replace him via FA signings.  It would have to be a draft pick we develop or something like that.  So I do get that aspect of this.  It is a real advantage to be able to keep him even while over the second apron so it is not nothing to give up that advantage.

I put it to you that White is a fundamentally better player, and a better fit on any NBA team, than either Jordan Poole or Tyler Herro.

[Roy H.]

The new spending penalties, second apron, etc might prevent teams from building up a super team these days. But the Celtics were already well underway on that course when these changes were announced. Too late to turn back now.

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster. If they just brought everyone back and spent money Warriors style, would there even be another team in the league capable of keeping up with our spending / bringing in this much high level talent?

We could have the highest bill and the most talent, and it would be difficult for another team to even be allowed to spend that much on good value contracts.

The Warriors are already at that stage, but are on the decline and not on the rise like the Celtics.

Just pondering the market at large. The Celtics have assembled the most talent and can resign everyone if they want, at a time when it is very difficult for the top teams to have good assets and room to maneuver below the 2nd apron when it comes to all star players.

Yeah, in the "old days" a team could just extend a player like White to top dollar, like GSW did with Poole or MIA with Herro.  I questioned both of those signings, but that is what teams were doing to keep their players.  Now that Brogdon and Smart are both gone (of course Holiday is now here), it makes sense to  try and extend White. 

But I am not for overpaying for a player like White.  Poole ended up getting dumped for Chris Paul (considered a bad contract).  No one wanted Herro.  If White is signed to a fair contract, then we might be able to trade him for something of value down the road.  Overpay him and it limits your flexibility.  We are going to be over the second apron in any case.  Paying tax is paying tax but no need to be reckless about it.  But the worst thing is having a bad contract taking up space.

White is locked up this season and next.  If he will accept a fair, team friendly extension, great.  If not, it doesn't mean he is gone.  White has to decide.  Even worst case, the team friendly extension will set him for life.  If we wants to maximize earnings, totally his prerogative, then he can play out this contract and hit the FA market in 2 years.

It is true that if we lose White in 2 seasons, it will be hard to replace him via FA signings.  It would have to be a draft pick we develop or something like that.  So I do get that aspect of this.  It is a real advantage to be able to keep him even while over the second apron so it is not nothing to give up that advantage.

I put it to you that White is a fundamentally better player, and a better fit on any NBA team, than either Jordan Poole or Tyler Herro.

Ugh.  Long post lost due to an internet hiccup.  In short, I agree.  I'd also note that we won't have much flexibility either way.

[Vermont Green]

The new spending penalties, second apron, etc might prevent teams from building up a super team these days. But the Celtics were already well underway on that course when these changes were announced. Too late to turn back now.

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster. If they just brought everyone back and spent money Warriors style, would there even be another team in the league capable of keeping up with our spending / bringing in this much high level talent?

We could have the highest bill and the most talent, and it would be difficult for another team to even be allowed to spend that much on good value contracts.

The Warriors are already at that stage, but are on the decline and not on the rise like the Celtics.

Just pondering the market at large. The Celtics have assembled the most talent and can resign everyone if they want, at a time when it is very difficult for the top teams to have good assets and room to maneuver below the 2nd apron when it comes to all star players.

Yeah, in the "old days" a team could just extend a player like White to top dollar, like GSW did with Poole or MIA with Herro.  I questioned both of those signings, but that is what teams were doing to keep their players.  Now that Brogdon and Smart are both gone (of course Holiday is now here), it makes sense to  try and extend White. 

But I am not for overpaying for a player like White.  Poole ended up getting dumped for Chris Paul (considered a bad contract).  No one wanted Herro.  If White is signed to a fair contract, then we might be able to trade him for something of value down the road.  Overpay him and it limits your flexibility.  We are going to be over the second apron in any case.  Paying tax is paying tax but no need to be reckless about it.  But the worst thing is having a bad contract taking up space.

White is locked up this season and next.  If he will accept a fair, team friendly extension, great.  If not, it doesn't mean he is gone.  White has to decide.  Even worst case, the team friendly extension will set him for life.  If we wants to maximize earnings, totally his prerogative, then he can play out this contract and hit the FA market in 2 years.

It is true that if we lose White in 2 seasons, it will be hard to replace him via FA signings.  It would have to be a draft pick we develop or something like that.  So I do get that aspect of this.  It is a real advantage to be able to keep him even while over the second apron so it is not nothing to give up that advantage.

I put it to you that White is a fundamentally better player, and a better fit on any NBA team, than either Jordan Poole or Tyler Herro.

Ugh.  Long post lost due to an internet hiccup.  In short, I agree.  I'd also note that we won't have much flexibility either way.

I too would rather have White than either Herro or Poole but what does that mean regarding an extension?  I want to extend White but hold the line and don't overpay.  Are you suggesting that we should pay top dollar to keep him?

I know terms like "overpay" and "top dollar" are subjective.  We extended Porzingis at about $30M per (less than Jordan Poole got for example).  Poole's contract was about $32M average per year.  Are you saying go to $35M?  Do you want to pay White that much?  I think around $20M for say 3 additional seasons is about right.

I think White on a $35M per year contract is going to impact flexibility, it would have an opportunity cost.

[Moranis]

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster.

Not according to basically every publication that has ranked players. 

[Celtics2021]

The new spending penalties, second apron, etc might prevent teams from building up a super team these days. But the Celtics were already well underway on that course when these changes were announced. Too late to turn back now.

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster. If they just brought everyone back and spent money Warriors style, would there even be another team in the league capable of keeping up with our spending / bringing in this much high level talent?

We could have the highest bill and the most talent, and it would be difficult for another team to even be allowed to spend that much on good value contracts.

The Warriors are already at that stage, but are on the decline and not on the rise like the Celtics.

Just pondering the market at large. The Celtics have assembled the most talent and can resign everyone if they want, at a time when it is very difficult for the top teams to have good assets and room to maneuver below the 2nd apron when it comes to all star players.

Yeah, in the "old days" a team could just extend a player like White to top dollar, like GSW did with Poole or MIA with Herro.  I questioned both of those signings, but that is what teams were doing to keep their players.  Now that Brogdon and Smart are both gone (of course Holiday is now here), it makes sense to  try and extend White. 

But I am not for overpaying for a player like White.  Poole ended up getting dumped for Chris Paul (considered a bad contract).  No one wanted Herro.  If White is signed to a fair contract, then we might be able to trade him for something of value down the road.  Overpay him and it limits your flexibility.  We are going to be over the second apron in any case.  Paying tax is paying tax but no need to be reckless about it.  But the worst thing is having a bad contract taking up space.

White is locked up this season and next.  If he will accept a fair, team friendly extension, great.  If not, it doesn't mean he is gone.  White has to decide.  Even worst case, the team friendly extension will set him for life.  If we wants to maximize earnings, totally his prerogative, then he can play out this contract and hit the FA market in 2 years.

It is true that if we lose White in 2 seasons, it will be hard to replace him via FA signings.  It would have to be a draft pick we develop or something like that.  So I do get that aspect of this.  It is a real advantage to be able to keep him even while over the second apron so it is not nothing to give up that advantage.

I put it to you that White is a fundamentally better player, and a better fit on any NBA team, than either Jordan Poole or Tyler Herro.

Ugh.  Long post lost due to an internet hiccup.  In short, I agree.  I'd also note that we won't have much flexibility either way.

I too would rather have White than either Herro or Poole but what does that mean regarding an extension?  I want to extend White but hold the line and don't overpay.  Are you suggesting that we should pay top dollar to keep him?

I know terms like "overpay" and "top dollar" are subjective.  We extended Porzingis at about $30M per (less than Jordan Poole got for example).  Poole's contract was about $32M average per year.  Are you saying go to $35M?  Do you want to pay White that much?  I think around $20M for say 3 additional seasons is about right.

I think White on a $35M per year contract is going to impact flexibility, it would have an opportunity cost.

The most we can give White is 3 years, $76 million, which would start in the 2025-2026 season.  $20 million would be way too low — he makes about $18.5 million this season, and the cap/tax will be 15-20% higher than it is now when his extension kicks in.

[Surferdad]

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster.

Not according to basically every publication that has ranked players.

There is a list of ranked players, but is there a weighted average of top-6 by team? You need that in order to assess overall talent.

[SHAQATTACK]

The Celtics have the most talent #1-6 of any roster.

Not according to basically every publication that has ranked players.

Can I offer you a glass of “ green KoolAid “ ?   

[Vermont Green]

The most we can give White is 3 years, $76 million, which would start in the 2025-2026 season.  $20 million would be way too low — he makes about $18.5 million this season, and the cap/tax will be 15-20% higher than it is now when his extension kicks in.

OK, my quick math says that is about $25.3M per on average, starting at about $23M the first year, which would be 2025-26.  I am fine with that and would not be surprised if this is exactly what is being discussed.  If I was White, I would take this.  There is plenty of risk for White if he plays this out and becomes a UFA.  And for the Celtics, I feel this is plenty team-friendly enough that it is well worth the commitment.

This doesn't result in White becoming a base year compensation contract or anything like that (like Grant)?  No poison pill attached (like Pritchard)?  Is the only restriction that we can't trade him for a year (like Brown)?