Author Topic: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan  (Read 15395 times)

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Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2012, 01:32:36 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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yeah that is the attitude, spend a first round pick on a project. I am sure Doc #18 has been elsuive. We are about the only team that will run our aging stars to the ground because we do not play rookies.

Folks like you would not have given Bradley or Steimsma a chance, and if DA had drafted DeAndre Jordan he probably would be out of the league by now.
Besides Stiemsma getting a lot of minutes (even with his foot injury) as a rookie, Semih Erden got plenty of minutes as a rookie. Semih played more with the Celtics as a rookie than he did last year with a horrible Cleveland team.

I think Doc just understands that some guys aren't going to work out and feel being drafted shouldn't guarantee minutes. Considering that we continue to see guys the Celtics didn't play see the court even less elsewhere (if they are even in the league), I think we need to limit who we talk about when we complain about young guys not getting minutes. I feel like the loudest complainers hide behind the shield of hypotheticals by focusing on guys we lack data on instead of focusing on how correct Doc has been when evaluating talents.

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2012, 04:01:23 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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Hmmm...I havent been on CB in a while.

Last time I took all of your pulses on Fab Melo it was: "Wait and see with this kid. He is a project, but a good gamble by Ainge"

I completely agreed with that sentiment.

Are more of you converting to full on believers in this kid? Did I miss something?

I did notice he really slimmed down since I last saw him at Syracuse. He has really good mobility and if he could just learn the defensive system quickly, he has a chance to carve out a role. That being said, it takes guys a long time to figure out the Celtics rotations. Steimsma got it eventually as a rookie but there were some significant growing pains and he was thrust into the role because of injuries.

We would have been better off with Wilcox over Steimer for that 10 minute per game role.

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2012, 04:39:35 PM »

Offline arambone

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"Are more of you converting to full on believers in this kid? Did I miss something?"

You look at the improvement he made from his freshman to sophomore seasons, where he got his first real minutes and became Big East DPOY and doubled his FT%.

Then you look at the buzz he got at the Combine based on improvement since the season ended.

Then you look at his Summer League performance, and see how he was moving faster than during his DPOY season, and how light on his feet he was.

He's now under Celtics tutelage, and he'll probably look even better at the start of training camp.

By the end of the pre-season, he will probably look night and day better than he was last season, which was night and day better than he was as a freshman. Certainly by the end of the 2012-13 season.

He's a long athletic 7' center in a league full of 6'10"-6'11" centers, or 7' stiffs.

He's got a nice looking jump shot with a fast enough release and a high release point. He'll get a couple post moves down that will be very difficult for the average center to block.

He may not ever be a dominant rebounder, but neither was Perk.
Melo already shows more offensive potential than Perk ever showed, as well as better court awareness and passing.

Perk was and is better at manning up the beefcake centers, but Melo is already a better shotblocker, and can move much better on help defense.

If Melo didn't come from a zone defense, and excel at it, I'd be much more concerned about his ability to pick up the Celtics' defense.

I think Doc was on board with this pick, and I also think Doc learned a couple things last year. One is that Doc knows he should have played Moore more during the regular season, so that he would have been more ready to play in the playoffs when he was needed.

The other thing I think Doc learned is that he could get decent contributions from big men without them completely understanding the defensive rotations. Steamer and Hollins were plugged right in there.

Melo is much more talented than either, and my hunch is that Doc will keep his expectations realistic. Everybody knows that Melo is no rocket scientist.

I could be wrong, but I think Doc will take the good with the bad to some extent, with the goal of making sure Melo is ready to really contribute during the playoffs.

I think Melo is already an elite shotblocker. We'll learn a whole lot during the pre-season as to whether or not Melo is ready to play with the big boys.

The biggest question is probably whether his mental lapses are still frequent enough to outweigh the positives that he brings.

Doc stressed to Rondo this year that he should trust his instincts and play instinctive ball more. Hopefully Melo gets the same guidance and confidence from Doc.


 

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2012, 05:05:39 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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i think melo will spend time in maine and potentially get a few minutes here and there if our front court is plagued with injuries (knock on wood).

Yeah, I imagine that has to be the plan.  It will likely be a very bad sign, if he needs to play anything more than garbage minutes.

We picked Collins up off the scrap heap. It seams like it'd be more of a bad sign if we were playing a scrap heap guy over Melo.

Rondo and KG can make Melo look pretty decent, good even.

I'm not opposed to a quick stint to Portland for a quick experiment after he gets a month or two with KG, but I think Melo will be in Boston most of the year, and contributing at that.

He's got the same shot blocking instincts as Stiemsma, with a lot more athleticism. Also, Melo comes from a zone defense, so he's already used to keeping his head on a swivel. Usually that is a skill that needs to be learned by young big men in the Boston defense. Melo has already shown the ability to play help defense at an elite level.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.  He has played at a high level, but that is still at the COLLEGE level.  It's hard to predict how his game will transfer to the pros.

Judging by the stats, Melo was a prolific shotblocker but his rebounding appears to be merely good rather than great.  Of course numbers can lie.  The 10 block game is an eyepopper but who were they playing against - Seton Hall.
http://philly.stats.com/cbk/players.asp?id=97405

All I know is that Danny saw fit to take Melo with a 1st round pick so he sees something in him.  You can't teach size, so hopefully Melo's natural athleticism and size will help him adjust to the NBA level.

Remember that Roy Hibbert was taken with the 17th overall pick.  Melo taken with the 21st.  Not that far apart.  And I don't think we'd mind having a Hibbert playing for us. 

Hibbert had more time to develop in college, going the full 4 years.  Melo is a little bit more raw, leaving after his sophmore season, but then again you can argue that he is getting pro conditioning/coaching earlier so it might be better for his development.

In any case we are talking about a very young player and a big man at that.  So we'll just have to wait and see how Melo pans out.  It will take time for Melo to grasp the celtics pro system and earn trust from Doc so that he can get some minutes.

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2012, 11:07:28 PM »

Offline billysan

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i think melo will spend time in maine and potentially get a few minutes here and there if our front court is plagued with injuries (knock on wood).

Yeah, I imagine that has to be the plan.  It will likely be a very bad sign, if he needs to play anything more than garbage minutes.

We picked Collins up off the scrap heap. It seams like it'd be more of a bad sign if we were playing a scrap heap guy over Melo.

Rondo and KG can make Melo look pretty decent, good even.

I'm not opposed to a quick stint to Portland for a quick experiment after he gets a month or two with KG, but I think Melo will be in Boston most of the year, and contributing at that.

He's got the same shot blocking instincts as Stiemsma, with a lot more athleticism. Also, Melo comes from a zone defense, so he's already used to keeping his head on a swivel. Usually that is a skill that needs to be learned by young big men in the Boston defense. Melo has already shown the ability to play help defense at an elite level.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.  He has played at a high level, but that is still at the COLLEGE level.  It's hard to predict how his game will transfer to the pros.

Judging by the stats, Melo was a prolific shotblocker but his rebounding appears to be merely good rather than great.  Of course numbers can lie.  The 10 block game is an eyepopper but who were they playing against - Seton Hall.
http://philly.stats.com/cbk/players.asp?id=97405

All I know is that Danny saw fit to take Melo with a 1st round pick so he sees something in him.  You can't teach size, so hopefully Melo's natural athleticism and size will help him adjust to the NBA level.

Remember that Roy Hibbert was taken with the 17th overall pick.  Melo taken with the 21st.  Not that far apart.  And I don't think we'd mind having a Hibbert playing for us. 

Hibbert had more time to develop in college, going the full 4 years.  Melo is a little bit more raw, leaving after his sophmore season, but then again you can argue that he is getting pro conditioning/coaching earlier so it might be better for his development.

In any case we are talking about a very young player and a big man at that.  So we'll just have to wait and see how Melo pans out.  It will take time for Melo to grasp the celtics pro system and earn trust from Doc so that he can get some minutes.
The fact that we signed a guy like Jason Collins could also mean that Danny and Doc have a lot of confidence that Melo will develop quickly and we only need a 'bridge' type guy for one year before he is able to contribute.

He (Melo) will certainly need a season to learn the Celtics system and develop his NBA game. This he will get by working a little with KG, a little with the coaching staff and a little in Maine.
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2012, 06:36:46 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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...  I wouldn't read too much into the Collins signing.  Collins is about as good a center as you're going to sign with the salary exemptions we had available to us.  Unless you wanted to commit the MLE to a big, you weren't going to get much better.

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2012, 07:54:40 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Could we let him get a few NBA minutes under his belt before we compare him to a solid NBA starting center?

Totally agree ... Give the guy a chance ...like Bradley who struggled early (NORMAL) not everybody is MJ or DOC J , if he isn't scoring 20 points a game right away people are ready to toss Fab under the bus...thats plain stupid.

Jordon BTW doesn't impress me , he is a ruffer/badboy version of Ryan Hollins ( super garbage man) ultimate NBA unskilled labor , leaping and running all over the court and getting very little done other than make a ton of stupid fouls.

Fab is going to have much better balanced game one day.

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2012, 08:01:11 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Could we let him get a few NBA minutes under his belt before we compare him to a solid NBA starting center?

Totally agree ... Give the guy a chance ...like Bradley who struggled early (NORMAL) not everybody is MJ or DOC J , if he isn't scoring 20 points a game right away people are ready to toss Fab under the bus...thats plain stupid.

Jordon BTW doesn't impress me , he is a ruffer/badboy version of Ryan Hollins ( super garbage man) ultimate NBA unskilled labor , leaping and running all over the court and getting very little done other than make a ton of stupid fouls.

Fab is going to have much better balanced game one day.

I think what he's trying to say is Fab might NOT be as good as them...I suppose you guys are seeing the same thing...but glass half full and glass half empty...

And I'm rooting for Fab.

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2012, 09:04:29 AM »

Offline Chris

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...  I wouldn't read too much into the Collins signing.  Collins is about as good a center as you're going to sign with the salary exemptions we had available to us.  Unless you wanted to commit the MLE to a big, you weren't going to get much better.

Yup.  And what he is, is a proven, and reliable low post defender.  He isn't a guy you want playing big minutes, because he is not great against every matchup.  But, if you are facing a team with a big, low post center, (such as Philly for instance), there are only a few guys in the league who are better than him against those types of matchups.

That is a very valuable pickup with the vet minimum.

Re: Melo vs DeAndre Jordan
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2012, 10:42:40 AM »

Offline arambone

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DeAndre Jordan shooting touch, lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut7nja5pJ9I