Courtney Lee Shutting Down Ray Allen

[rayallen1934]

A large part of Ray's value in Boston (and in Miami) is that you have to know where he is at all times, which limits a team's ability to double team other players, and helps space the floor. It worked in Boston and it will work in Miami. If you had the choice between having a player help on a LeBron drive or sticking with Ray, which do you choose? I think most teams are going to opt for the former and leave Ray with open shot after open shot. He won't beat a team by himself, but he will help his team, which is kind of the point of basketball.

Ray is going to hurt us next year if he is healthy. Simple as that. The only thing that can stop Ray is Ray and his 38 year old body trying to play yet another 82 game season. This time coming off surgery. Remember that he is rehabbing more then training this season.

But with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh on the court defenses have bigger fish to fry then Ray Allen. He will get his looks. I am still a little unsold on Spoelstra's ability to utilize Ray the way we did or his desire to do so.

I just don't know how involved Ray will be in the offense. I see him getting a decent amount of open 3 looks but Miami always gets that. A combo of Mike Miller, James Jones, and Shane Battier is a pretty darn good 3 point shooting.

Isn't Miller and Jones some of the highest percentages over the past couple years? I mean ray is a better ball player but unless he is highly featured in their offense how much more is he going to be bring offensively?

I just don't see a gigantic difference in any of those guys standing in the corner waiting to get the ball kicked out to them. If you go by the percentages there just isn't a big difference.

How many times has Mike Miller scored 15+ last season, how about Battier, how about Jones


This is the problem with board members. Ray Allen might be considered just a shooter, but if he is healthy he is still a scorer.

The guy is not out there like Mike Miller who can barely move anymore or hasnt seen the basket up close in like 5 years

Ray Allen can still drive, dish, get to the basket, and hit mid range shots from anywhere

This is not Mike Miller, Shane Battier, or Jones.....This is Ray Allen

And if you want to keep telling yourself lies like Ray Allen is no better than Novak, then continue to do so.

That's funny that you mentioned Steve Novak the guy who dropped 25 points and 8 3' on us last season.


Yeah Ray Allen will have some of those games but very few IMO has with Miami. I just don't see him getting many more shots or plays than some of those other layers on that team.

If he's draining those shots it will suck but it sucks whenever any other 3 point shooter is doing it.

What type of role do you see Ray really having with them? I mean it is clearly going to be severely limited compared to what it was with the Celtics. His shot attempts could be cut in half.

He's going from a team with the best ball movement in the league, probably the most selfless team who knew eachother in and out to a brand new system where the ball mainly "sticks" to 2 players.

Yea so did Shane Battier. You know what they have in common? Paul Pierce was guarding them, or suppossed to be.

The Celtics had the best ball movement teams? Really? they had one of the worst offensive scoring in the league. They struggled a lot.

You want to blame Ray for that? Fine. Blame Ray.

I think Ray did what was asked of him. He ran around screens and obviously cannot create too much at all nowadays.

But I think the offense was built that way, and it worked, this team was a winner with that strategy.

Same could be said for Rondo not learning how to shoot an open jumper 6 years into the league.

I love Rondo's game, but I truly think its pathetic how he has not improved his jump shooting mentality one bit, he has Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and even Garnett and still cant solidify any type of jump shooting mentality.

That really gears our offense to the "waiting" game, and i think played a huge part in the way Doc had to run the offense of picks and screens.

When your man sits back 10 feet, you need other ways to get open.

Many say Rondo was the reason Ray was so good and continued to shoot well,


Well same can be said about Rondo, as in Ray really helped Rondo by allowing this guy to have clear vision almost every set play in the half court...he had nobody blocking his view for god sakes...
and when Ray did recieve the ball off a screen Rondo was always left open as Ray often drew 2 guys and sometimes 3 off the screen allowing Rondo to be wide open, only to recieve the pass, hesitate completely and miss or pass up an easy shot, which all know he is known for.


Im sorry for giving the other side of the story since so many only want to hear how Rondo makes everybody superman around him.


If Bradley and Lee suck this year, and Terry is inconsistant, I guarantee Rondo's game suffers and so will the Celtics.

[CelticG1]

A large part of Ray's value in Boston (and in Miami) is that you have to know where he is at all times, which limits a team's ability to double team other players, and helps space the floor. It worked in Boston and it will work in Miami. If you had the choice between having a player help on a LeBron drive or sticking with Ray, which do you choose? I think most teams are going to opt for the former and leave Ray with open shot after open shot. He won't beat a team by himself, but he will help his team, which is kind of the point of basketball.

Ray is going to hurt us next year if he is healthy. Simple as that. The only thing that can stop Ray is Ray and his 38 year old body trying to play yet another 82 game season. This time coming off surgery. Remember that he is rehabbing more then training this season.

But with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh on the court defenses have bigger fish to fry then Ray Allen. He will get his looks. I am still a little unsold on Spoelstra's ability to utilize Ray the way we did or his desire to do so.

I just don't know how involved Ray will be in the offense. I see him getting a decent amount of open 3 looks but Miami always gets that. A combo of Mike Miller, James Jones, and Shane Battier is a pretty darn good 3 point shooting.

Isn't Miller and Jones some of the highest percentages over the past couple years? I mean ray is a better ball player but unless he is highly featured in their offense how much more is he going to be bring offensively?

I just don't see a gigantic difference in any of those guys standing in the corner waiting to get the ball kicked out to them. If you go by the percentages there just isn't a big difference.

How many times has Mike Miller scored 15+ last season, how about Battier, how about Jones


This is the problem with board members. Ray Allen might be considered just a shooter, but if he is healthy he is still a scorer.

The guy is not out there like Mike Miller who can barely move anymore or hasnt seen the basket up close in like 5 years

Ray Allen can still drive, dish, get to the basket, and hit mid range shots from anywhere

This is not Mike Miller, Shane Battier, or Jones.....This is Ray Allen

And if you want to keep telling yourself lies like Ray Allen is no better than Novak, then continue to do so.

That's funny that you mentioned Steve Novak the guy who dropped 25 points and 8 3' on us last season.


Yeah Ray Allen will have some of those games but very few IMO has with Miami. I just don't see him getting many more shots or plays than some of those other layers on that team.

If he's draining those shots it will suck but it sucks whenever any other 3 point shooter is doing it.

What type of role do you see Ray really having with them? I mean it is clearly going to be severely limited compared to what it was with the Celtics. His shot attempts could be cut in half.

He's going from a team with the best ball movement in the league, probably the most selfless team who knew eachother in and out to a brand new system where the ball mainly "sticks" to 2 players.

Yea so did Shane Battier. You know what they have in common? Paul Pierce was guarding them, or suppossed to be.

The Celtics had the best ball movement teams? Really? they had one of the worst offensive scoring in the league. They struggled a lot.

You want to blame Ray for that? Fine. Blame Ray.

I think Ray did what was asked of him. He ran around screens and obviously cannot create too much at all nowadays.

But I think the offense was built that way, and it worked, this team was a winner with that strategy.

Same could be said for Rondo not learning how to shoot an open jumper 6 years into the league.

I love Rondo's game, but I truly think its pathetic how he has not improved his jump shooting mentality one bit, he has Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and even Garnett and still cant solidify any type of jump shooting mentality.

That really gears our offense to the "waiting" game, and i think played a huge part in the way Doc had to run the offense of picks and screens.

When your man sits back 10 feet, you need other ways to get open.

Many say Rondo was the reason Ray was so good and continued to shoot well,


Well same can be said about Rondo, as in Ray really helped Rondo by allowing this guy to have clear vision almost every set play in the half court...he had nobody blocking his view for god sakes...
and when Ray did recieve the ball off a screen Rondo was always left open as Ray often drew 2 guys and sometimes 3 off the screen allowing Rondo to be wide open, only to recieve the pass, hesitate completely and miss or pass up an easy shot, which all know he is known for.


Im sorry for giving the other side of the story since so many only want to hear how Rondo makes everybody superman around him.


If Bradley and Lee suck this year, and Terry is inconsistant, I guarantee Rondo's game suffers and so will the Celtics.

Ha WOW that was a lot of rambling!

The one thing im still unclear about is are you a fan of Ray Allen?

[BballTim]

I love Rondo's game, but I truly think its pathetic how he has not improved his jump shooting mentality one bit, he has Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and even Garnett and still cant solidify any type of jump shooting mentality.

  If you're going to get on Rondo for not improving his shooting you should get on Ray for not improving his passing, ballhandling, rebounding or defense, especially playing next to players like KG and Rondo.

Well same can be said about Rondo, as in Ray really helped Rondo by allowing this guy to have clear vision almost every set play in the half court...he had nobody blocking his view for god sakes...
and when Ray did recieve the ball off a screen Rondo was always left open as Ray often drew 2 guys and sometimes 3 off the screen allowing Rondo to be wide open, only to recieve the pass, hesitate completely and miss or pass up an easy shot, which all know he is known for.

  That's a pretty good description if you stopped watching the team in 2009 or so. Ray doesn't draw 2 guys when he comes off of screens anymore, let alone 3.

If Bradley and Lee suck this year, and Terry is inconsistant, I guarantee Rondo's game suffers and so will the Celtics.

  Ray, Bradley and Pietrus combined to score about 12 points per 48 minutes on 37% shooting in the playoffs, and I doubt you'd be able to convince anyone that Rondo's game suffered from that. Good luck with your guarantee.

[bucknersrevenge]

A large part of Ray's value in Boston (and in Miami) is that you have to know where he is at all times, which limits a team's ability to double team other players, and helps space the floor. It worked in Boston and it will work in Miami. If you had the choice between having a player help on a LeBron drive or sticking with Ray, which do you choose? I think most teams are going to opt for the former and leave Ray with open shot after open shot. He won't beat a team by himself, but he will help his team, which is kind of the point of basketball.

Ray is going to hurt us next year if he is healthy. Simple as that. The only thing that can stop Ray is Ray and his 38 year old body trying to play yet another 82 game season. This time coming off surgery. Remember that he is rehabbing more then training this season.

But with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh on the court defenses have bigger fish to fry then Ray Allen. He will get his looks. I am still a little unsold on Spoelstra's ability to utilize Ray the way we did or his desire to do so.

I just don't know how involved Ray will be in the offense. I see him getting a decent amount of open 3 looks but Miami always gets that. A combo of Mike Miller, James Jones, and Shane Battier is a pretty darn good 3 point shooting.

Isn't Miller and Jones some of the highest percentages over the past couple years? I mean ray is a better ball player but unless he is highly featured in their offense how much more is he going to be bring offensively?

I just don't see a gigantic difference in any of those guys standing in the corner waiting to get the ball kicked out to them. If you go by the percentages there just isn't a big difference.

How many times has Mike Miller scored 15+ last season, how about Battier, how about Jones


This is the problem with board members. Ray Allen might be considered just a shooter, but if he is healthy he is still a scorer.

The guy is not out there like Mike Miller who can barely move anymore or hasnt seen the basket up close in like 5 years

Ray Allen can still drive, dish, get to the basket, and hit mid range shots from anywhere

This is not Mike Miller, Shane Battier, or Jones.....This is Ray Allen

And if you want to keep telling yourself lies like Ray Allen is no better than Novak, then continue to do so.

That's funny that you mentioned Steve Novak the guy who dropped 25 points and 8 3' on us last season.


Yeah Ray Allen will have some of those games but very few IMO has with Miami. I just don't see him getting many more shots or plays than some of those other layers on that team.

If he's draining those shots it will suck but it sucks whenever any other 3 point shooter is doing it.

What type of role do you see Ray really having with them? I mean it is clearly going to be severely limited compared to what it was with the Celtics. His shot attempts could be cut in half.

He's going from a team with the best ball movement in the league, probably the most selfless team who knew eachother in and out to a brand new system where the ball mainly "sticks" to 2 players.

Yea so did Shane Battier. You know what they have in common? Paul Pierce was guarding them, or suppossed to be.

The Celtics had the best ball movement teams? Really? they had one of the worst offensive scoring in the league. They struggled a lot.

You want to blame Ray for that? Fine. Blame Ray.

I think Ray did what was asked of him. He ran around screens and obviously cannot create too much at all nowadays.

But I think the offense was built that way, and it worked, this team was a winner with that strategy.

Same could be said for Rondo not learning how to shoot an open jumper 6 years into the league.

I love Rondo's game, but I truly think its pathetic how he has not improved his jump shooting mentality one bit, he has Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and even Garnett and still cant solidify any type of jump shooting mentality.

That really gears our offense to the "waiting" game, and i think played a huge part in the way Doc had to run the offense of picks and screens.

When your man sits back 10 feet, you need other ways to get open.

Many say Rondo was the reason Ray was so good and continued to shoot well,


Well same can be said about Rondo, as in Ray really helped Rondo by allowing this guy to have clear vision almost every set play in the half court...he had nobody blocking his view for god sakes...
and when Ray did recieve the ball off a screen Rondo was always left open as Ray often drew 2 guys and sometimes 3 off the screen allowing Rondo to be wide open, only to recieve the pass, hesitate completely and miss or pass up an easy shot, which all know he is known for.


Im sorry for giving the other side of the story since so many only want to hear how Rondo makes everybody superman around him.


If Bradley and Lee suck this year, and Terry is inconsistant, I guarantee Rondo's game suffers and so will the Celtics.

I'm wondering what does how Rondo performed last year have to do with the price of tea in China? Or furthermore what Ray Allen's role will be in Miami? Basically Ray is taking over Mike Miller's role as 1st guard off the bench. Ray will be taking Miller's shots. That's it. Miami is not opening up the offense to expand Ray's role. They just signed a better "Mike Miller" for 3M. That's it. Ray at this point is very good 3-point shooter but that's all he is. An older "Steve Novak". But of course no post from you seems to be complete without an attempt to deflect attention about who or what Ray is without trying to make some meandering conection to some flaw about Rondo. Rondo has nothing to do with how mimited Ray Allen's role is gonna be in Miami.

[Interceptor]

Basically Ray is taking over Mike Miller's role as 1st guard off the bench. Ray will be taking Miller's shots. That's it. Miami is not opening up the offense to expand Ray's role. They just signed a better "Mike Miller" for 3M. That's it. Ray at this point is very good 3-point shooter but that's all he is. An older "Steve Novak".

I don't know about this.

It's still the most likely scenario: Scumbag Allen as first guard off the bench. But Miami doesn't really need a PG, strictly speaking, given how good a passer that LBJ is. They could roll out Wade/Judas/LBJ/Bosh/whoever, or slide Bosh to C to have Chalmers out there instead, which puts Judas as the two in a starting role.

Wouldn't surprise me if this was Riley's pitch.

[bucknersrevenge]

Basically Ray is taking over Mike Miller's role as 1st guard off the bench. Ray will be taking Miller's shots. That's it. Miami is not opening up the offense to expand Ray's role. They just signed a better "Mike Miller" for 3M. That's it. Ray at this point is very good 3-point shooter but that's all he is. An older "Steve Novak".

I don't know about this.

It's still the most likely scenario: Scumbag Allen as first guard off the bench. But Miami doesn't really need a PG, strictly speaking, given how good a passer that LBJ is. They could roll out Wade/Judas/LBJ/Bosh/whoever, or slide Bosh to C to have Chalmers out there instead, which puts Judas as the two in a starting role.

Wouldn't surprise me if this was Riley's pitch.

I don't know if you were saying you were disagreeing with me but it doesn't sound like you are. I can tell you though I've read at least 1 article indicating Spo was going to be using exactly that lineup with Bosh at C and LBJ at the 4 with Allen at the 3 a lot next year.

[BballTim]

Basically Ray is taking over Mike Miller's role as 1st guard off the bench. Ray will be taking Miller's shots. That's it. Miami is not opening up the offense to expand Ray's role. They just signed a better "Mike Miller" for 3M. That's it. Ray at this point is very good 3-point shooter but that's all he is. An older "Steve Novak".

I don't know about this.

It's still the most likely scenario: Scumbag Allen as first guard off the bench. But Miami doesn't really need a PG, strictly speaking, given how good a passer that LBJ is. They could roll out Wade/Judas/LBJ/Bosh/whoever, or slide Bosh to C to have Chalmers out there instead, which puts Judas as the two in a starting role.

Wouldn't surprise me if this was Riley's pitch.

  Whether Ray starts or not he'll still be filling the Miller/Jones role on offense, standing outside the arc wating for LBJ or Wade to give him the ball when the defenses collapse on them.

[Celtics4ever]

Just place a defender in front of him and it should stop him.   He can't elevate or create his own shot, then that guy needs to go to the hole on the offense and take him to the rack.   I wonder who they will have setting picks for him.  We hid a lot of his short comings with picks here.   If it is Hasleem then they lost a lot of boards, I can't see his Highness or Dirty Boy setting them and Crybaby probably won't either.

[CelticsFan9]

A large part of Ray's value in Boston (and in Miami) is that you have to know where he is at all times, which limits a team's ability to double team other players, and helps space the floor. It worked in Boston and it will work in Miami. If you had the choice between having a player help on a LeBron drive or sticking with Ray, which do you choose? I think most teams are going to opt for the former and leave Ray with open shot after open shot. He won't beat a team by himself, but he will help his team, which is kind of the point of basketball.

Ray is going to hurt us next year if he is healthy. Simple as that. The only thing that can stop Ray is Ray and his 38 year old body trying to play yet another 82 game season. This time coming off surgery. Remember that he is rehabbing more then training this season.

But with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh on the court defenses have bigger fish to fry then Ray Allen. He will get his looks. I am still a little unsold on Spoelstra's ability to utilize Ray the way we did or his desire to do so.

I just don't know how involved Ray will be in the offense. I see him getting a decent amount of open 3 looks but Miami always gets that. A combo of Mike Miller, James Jones, and Shane Battier is a pretty darn good 3 point shooting.

Isn't Miller and Jones some of the highest percentages over the past couple years? I mean ray is a better ball player but unless he is highly featured in their offense how much more is he going to be bring offensively?

I just don't see a gigantic difference in any of those guys standing in the corner waiting to get the ball kicked out to them. If you go by the percentages there just isn't a big difference.

How many times has Mike Miller scored 15+ last season, how about Battier, how about Jones


This is the problem with board members. Ray Allen might be considered just a shooter, but if he is healthy he is still a scorer.

The guy is not out there like Mike Miller who can barely move anymore or hasnt seen the basket up close in like 5 years

Ray Allen can still drive, dish, get to the basket, and hit mid range shots from anywhere

This is not Mike Miller, Shane Battier, or Jones.....This is Ray Allen

And if you want to keep telling yourself lies like Ray Allen is no better than Novak, then continue to do so.

That's funny that you mentioned Steve Novak the guy who dropped 25 points and 8 3' on us last season.


Yeah Ray Allen will have some of those games but very few IMO has with Miami. I just don't see him getting many more shots or plays than some of those other layers on that team.

If he's draining those shots it will suck but it sucks whenever any other 3 point shooter is doing it.

What type of role do you see Ray really having with them? I mean it is clearly going to be severely limited compared to what it was with the Celtics. His shot attempts could be cut in half.

He's going from a team with the best ball movement in the league, probably the most selfless team who knew eachother in and out to a brand new system where the ball mainly "sticks" to 2 players.

Yea so did Shane Battier. You know what they have in common? Paul Pierce was guarding them, or suppossed to be.

The Celtics had the best ball movement teams? Really? they had one of the worst offensive scoring in the league. They struggled a lot.

You want to blame Ray for that? Fine. Blame Ray.

I think Ray did what was asked of him. He ran around screens and obviously cannot create too much at all nowadays.

But I think the offense was built that way, and it worked, this team was a winner with that strategy.

Same could be said for Rondo not learning how to shoot an open jumper 6 years into the league.

I love Rondo's game, but I truly think its pathetic how he has not improved his jump shooting mentality one bit, he has Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and even Garnett and still cant solidify any type of jump shooting mentality.

That really gears our offense to the "waiting" game, and i think played a huge part in the way Doc had to run the offense of picks and screens.

When your man sits back 10 feet, you need other ways to get open.

Many say Rondo was the reason Ray was so good and continued to shoot well,


Well same can be said about Rondo, as in Ray really helped Rondo by allowing this guy to have clear vision almost every set play in the half court...he had nobody blocking his view for god sakes...
and when Ray did recieve the ball off a screen Rondo was always left open as Ray often drew 2 guys and sometimes 3 off the screen allowing Rondo to be wide open, only to recieve the pass, hesitate completely and miss or pass up an easy shot, which all know he is known for.


Im sorry for giving the other side of the story since so many only want to hear how Rondo makes everybody superman around him.


If Bradley and Lee suck this year, and Terry is inconsistant, I guarantee Rondo's game suffers and so will the Celtics.

Didn't you say that when healthy Ray Allen is a good, versatile scorer?

Geez buddy, make up your mind.

[blastoidesroidsnoids]

does rondo cover ray if both he and wade are in

[rayallen1934]

does rondo cover ray if both he and wade are in

Rondo cannot guard a Ray Allen, Ray would just take him to the post downlow.

[indeedproceed]

does rondo cover ray if both he and wade are in

Rondo cannot guard a Ray Allen, Ray would just take him to the post downlow.

I tell you what, Ray Allen has a lot of memories for me..making Sasha cry, hitting that game winner in Charlotte, but the number one memory I have of him is his dominating post game.

Just an absolutely dominant post player. Just dominant.

[lightspeed5]

Basically Ray is taking over Mike Miller's role as 1st guard off the bench. Ray will be taking Miller's shots. That's it. Miami is not opening up the offense to expand Ray's role. They just signed a better "Mike Miller" for 3M. That's it. Ray at this point is very good 3-point shooter but that's all he is. An older "Steve Novak".

I don't know about this.

It's still the most likely scenario: Scumbag Allen as first guard off the bench. But Miami doesn't really need a PG, strictly speaking, given how good a passer that LBJ is. They could roll out Wade/Judas/LBJ/Bosh/whoever, or slide Bosh to C to have Chalmers out there instead, which puts Judas as the two in a starting role.

Wouldn't surprise me if this was Riley's pitch.

lebron cannot play full time point. its not happening. chalmers is starting...

[j804]

Basically Ray is taking over Mike Miller's role as 1st guard off the bench. Ray will be taking Miller's shots. That's it. Miami is not opening up the offense to expand Ray's role. They just signed a better "Mike Miller" for 3M. That's it. Ray at this point is very good 3-point shooter but that's all he is. An older "Steve Novak".

I don't know about this.

It's still the most likely scenario: Scumbag Allen as first guard off the bench. But Miami doesn't really need a PG, strictly speaking, given how good a passer that LBJ is. They could roll out Wade/Judas/LBJ/Bosh/whoever, or slide Bosh to C to have Chalmers out there instead, which puts Judas as the two in a starting role.

Wouldn't surprise me if this was Riley's pitch.

lebron cannot play full time point. its not happening. chalmers is starting...

yeah if it ain't broke don't fix it, expect them to still start Chalmers....as far Ray he's not just a 3pt shooter but well be ok without him probably even better. he wouldn't have even been good for the locker room after hearing how he really felt.

[BballTim]

does rondo cover ray if both he and wade are in

Rondo cannot guard a Ray Allen, Ray would just take him to the post downlow.

  I seriously doubt Miami's going to run a lot of plays with Ray in the post. He's there to spread the floor for LeBron and Wade.