Could Horford end up being the worst contract of offseason?

[RockinRyA]

Obviously 6 of 16 isn't very good but he did finish with 16 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and a block with just 1 turnover.  Pretty much everyone on the Sixers was atrocious yesterday also.  They just got whipped by the Mavs

This is really interesting to me. We have all seen you use on off stats for a bunch of single games to make a point. Here Horford has a second worst minus 22 and you rattle off his counting stats. That is really interesting

Some "fans" just love to critique the celtics and defend other teams.

[Moranis]

Obviously 6 of 16 isn't very good but he did finish with 16 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and a block with just 1 turnover.  Pretty much everyone on the Sixers was atrocious yesterday also.  They just got whipped by the Mavs

This is really interesting to me. We have all seen you use on off stats for a bunch of single games to make a point. Here Horford has a second worst minus 22 and you rattle off his counting stats. That is really interesting

The Sixers starters in that game were -19, -27, -18, -22, and then Scott who was -11, but played about 10 minutes (or more) less minutes than the other 4 starters.  In other words, they were all terrible.  If Horford was -22, but the other starters were all like -5, then there is something there, but in this game they were all atrocious and were all atrocious basically as a unit. 

As for my focus on on/off, I use those because they show a player's importance to the scoreboard more than any other individual stat.  If your team is significantly better when you are in the game then when you are on the bench, your value is clear.  Tatum has cooled off since his super elite start, but he still also by far the best on/off per 100 differential of the 6 regular starters at +10.4 which is down from his great start, but is still borderline elite.  In fact Brown, Smart, and Theis are all still negative in the on/off and Kemba and Gordon are both less than 1.  The fact that Tatum is still so much higher than the other starters after 37 games says a great deal about just how important Tatum actually is to the team.

[Fafnir]

Horford tried to set back the clock yesterday and launched 16 shots. Unfortunately he only hit 6 and was -22 for the game. Not what you want for 30 million

Eh that wasn't a Horford issue. I watched a good chunk of the second half and that game flipped completely in right at the start of the second half.

Mavericks came out with a ton more energy and aggression, and the 76ers couldn't get anything going on offense. Just a bunch of contested jumpers. Simmons in particular was a complete no show in the minutes I watched.

[Phantom255x]

Sixers fans are turning on Horford, but honestly I think Tobias Harris is the guy they should really regret signing. And yes, I'd argue he might be up there as one of the worst contracts of the off-season.

5 years, 180M.

Yeah, he may be averaging 19-20 PPG, but that's basically all he does. Doesn't play great defense either. And when he doesn't shoot well like last night, then he's a complete liability on the court. I'd argue Tatum and Brown are both already better than Tobias Harris this season lol. I've seen Middleton help lead the Bucks to wins even without Giannis. Tobias Harris at best seems like a #3 option (or #2 if Embiid's out).

[Roy H.]

I'd argue Tatum and Brown are both already better than Tobias Harris this season lol

I don’t think there’s any doubt.

[SHAQATTACK]

Sixers fans are turning on Horford, but honestly I think Tobias Harris is the guy they should really regret signing. And yes, I'd argue he might be up there as one of the worst contracts of the off-season.

5 years, 180M.

Yeah, he may be averaging 19-20 PPG, but that's basically all he does. Doesn't play great defense either. And when he doesn't shoot well like last night, then he's a complete liability on the court. I'd argue Tatum and Brown are both already better than Tobias Harris this season lol. I've seen Middleton help lead the Bucks to wins even without Giannis. Tobias Harris at best seems like a #3 option (or #2 if Embiid's out).

Butler /Riddick > Harris /Horford


They teally messed up letting JR and Jimmy go.  And every year of Als contract its gonna look worse.

[smokeablount]

Butler /Riddick > Harris /Horford

Butler/Reddick/Harris > Horford/Richardson/Harris

[Birdman]

Horford just don’t fit in 76ers lineup.. they using him different than what he did at Atl and Boston

[celticsclay]

He has lost a step on defense for sure. Contract is looking like a real albatross. We dodged a bullet

[nickagneta]

Horford was played almost exclusively by Brown and Grant Williams and though Al went for 9/9/4, Brown went for 32/9 and Grant had 5/3.

I will give Horford credit for playing better than Embiid last night, who appeared to call in the game from his hotel suite because he certainly didn't show up to play.

[KGs Knee]

This Sixers roster just does not fit.  It's hard to tell where the true value of some of these players lays this season.  None of their best players are being utilized appropriately.  I figured defense would carry them and Harris would find a way to be the closer the team needed, but he slinks into the background too often.

My guess is Jimmy Butler saw this from the inside and that is why he wanted no part of staying in Philly.  The guys there all seem to get in each other's way and look to be having as much fun as last year's Celtics.

Guess the grass ain't always greener, eh Al?

[Moranis]

This Sixers roster just does not fit.  It's hard to tell where the true value of some of these players lays this season.  None of their best players are being utilized appropriately.  I figured defense would carry them and Harris would find a way to be the closer the team needed, but he slinks into the background too often.

My guess is Jimmy Butler saw this from the inside and that is why he wanted no part of staying in Philly.  The guys there all seem to get in each other's way and look to be having as much fun as last year's Celtics.

Guess the grass ain't always greener, eh Al?

Embiid seems to be the problem.  He just doesn't fit well with most of the rest of the roster and given he misses so much time, it is hard to work through those issues.  He is their best and most valuable player though, so it is a tricky situation.  I do think they'd be better off moving on from him as the rest of that roster could work, especially if they get the right pieces for Embiid. 

[gouki88]

This Sixers roster just does not fit.  It's hard to tell where the true value of some of these players lays this season.  None of their best players are being utilized appropriately.  I figured defense would carry them and Harris would find a way to be the closer the team needed, but he slinks into the background too often.

My guess is Jimmy Butler saw this from the inside and that is why he wanted no part of staying in Philly.  The guys there all seem to get in each other's way and look to be having as much fun as last year's Celtics.

Guess the grass ain't always greener, eh Al?

Embiid seems to be the problem.  He just doesn't fit well with most of the rest of the roster and given he misses so much time, it is hard to work through those issues.  He is their best and most valuable player though, so it is a tricky situation.  I do think they'd be better off moving on from him as the rest of that roster could work, especially if they get the right pieces for Embiid.

Neither are necessarily real trade opportunities, but who do you think would fit their team better: KAT or Beal?

[celticsclay]

They gotta trade brown too

[Ogaju]

This Sixers roster just does not fit.  It's hard to tell where the true value of some of these players lays this season.  None of their best players are being utilized appropriately.  I figured defense would carry them and Harris would find a way to be the closer the team needed, but he slinks into the background too often.

My guess is Jimmy Butler saw this from the inside and that is why he wanted no part of staying in Philly.  The guys there all seem to get in each other's way and look to be having as much fun as last year's Celtics.

Guess the grass ain't always greener, eh Al?

Embiid seems to be the problem.  He just doesn't fit well with most of the rest of the roster and given he misses so much time, it is hard to work through those issues.  He is their best and most valuable player though, so it is a tricky situation.  I do think they'd be better off moving on from him as the rest of that roster could work, especially if they get the right pieces for Embiid.

Who takes Embiid?