Expect the unexpected.....which star could wear green in December?

[Monkhouse]

I've always wondered about the possibility of Kemba, Langford, and 2 first round picks + cap filler/sweeteners for Simmons.

But I just cannot see it happening.

1) 76ers would not only be the biggest laughingstock, trading with a division rival and losing out on another trade, but could you imagine if Stevens was able to tap into Simmon's true potential? Simmons is not 1A, no matter how you slice his game or his potential to be a top 10 player, (which I think he could be if his ego didn't get in the way,) he just isn't suited as an alpha. Embiid is the alpha, but he's not given the shots nor the ability to create offense since he isn't the best ball handling big, and is more of Hakeem mold.
Those players are championship caliber guys, but they need a solid foundation/team built around him. With Simmons, if he unlocks his potential, he'd would somewhat be like Lamar Odom/Draymond Green kind of guy minus the shooting. I'll disagree with people saying Simmon's defense isn't good. It's not good, it's elite.

[Krishna Narsu] Ben Simmons is the only player in the NBA to guard each position at least 10% of the time and hold the opposing player under their normal production (points per 100 poss) at all 5 positions

Granted, that was a year ago, I don't have advanced stats for him this year. But his numbers via boxscore on and off/overall Raptor has him as +2.3 and +2.2 on that respective side. He's an excellent versatile defender. I don't think he can guard the best 5's consistently, like Embiid, Jokic, or KAT, but then again most centers struggle against them anyways.

2) So why am I low on Simmons?

He just cannot shoot. And that's a huge problem. In the playoffs, teams like the Bucks, Heat, Lakers, and Rockets will pretty much zone him out of the game. I've seen his recent shooting videos, and he shoots exactly like LeBron. They both use a lot of their wrist strength. But the main difference? You have to respect LeBron's shot. Simmons? People just sag off him, and that creates way too much spacing issues. He also doesn't have any post moves at all other than his pump fake, and his baby hook.

And his offensive problems aren't just related to halfcourt, his offense in transition is in decline as well. Defenders know he doesn’t want to get fouled. I suspect losing JJ Reddick hurt them a lot more than they think. Most teams are content to cut off his passing lanes on the break and allow smaller or slower defenders to take him one-on-one to the rim. They can live with his awkward flip shots or running bank-shots.

[Monkhouse]

I always thought of Bradley Beal as an option, but I'm not giving up Brown for him, and I'd suspect that is exactly what the Wizards would want.

The duo of Brown & Tatum will be our future core along with Smart moving forward. I do keep some hope contained that Langford/Williams and Timelord can help expedite that process and make major advancements soon too.

EDIT: I remember reading someone on Reddit talk about Jaylen Brown/filler for Paskal Siakim, but I'd prefer to keep Brown over him. I think both are fantastic players, but Brown is just as good if not almost on the same level as Siakim, being 3 years younger.

[RodyTur10]

@ jambr380, keevsnick

I believe Hayward is our 3rd best player right now. Imo, he had a better season than Brown. Don't want us to trade him for cap relief. It would suck big time.

If we were to make a blockbuster deal (which I believe we won't), I'd rather we trade Kemba. The way I see it, he's a luxury, not a necessity. I mean, we already got Smart. I'd be perfectly happy with Smart as our starting PG.

I agree with you on this. Hayward has had a good season and trading him would surely not gain enough value in comparison with his on-court value. Overall Walker has been the 2nd best player on the Celtics, but the difference between him and Hayward may not be as large as general public would assume.

Also with Walker's athletism being a bigger factor to his level of play than it is for Hayward, a decline from his current All Star status is probably not far away. Especially considering the knee issues we've heard about.

Walker's greatest contribution to a team is his scoring ability, and now that Tatum has taken over as being a first scoring option his scoring prowess is more of a luxury than a necessity (as you mentioned). While Brown and Hayward are perfectly capable as serving as 2nd and 3rd option on offense.

What we see in playoff-matchups is that coaches take advantage of any mismatch they can create on the court. Sometimes it's a center who's too slow to chase wings on the perimeter and sometimes it's guards who are too undersized to defend wings in the post. Unfortunately Walker falls in that category. You can be sure that against the Raptors, Bucks or Heat, smart coaches like Nurse, Spoelstra or Budenholzer will attack Walker and make him a liability on the defensive end.

So there are a few good reasons to prefer Hayward over Walker. However some cons:

• On paper Smart/Brown should be an elite duo on defense, but stats don't show this
• Four go-to offensive options for the Celtics are a luxury, but obviously also a big strength
• Trading a free agent so quick after signing him can further hurt the image of the Celtics
• I have the suspicion that Hayward is underperforming against the top teams in the NBA (going to look into more data)

Anyway, even though I asked for it, it's hard to come up with a trade with either Walker or Hayward that would bring back a star that would make sense for the Celtics roster and is realistic. I can see Gobert becoming available and maybe Philly will listen to offers for Simmons (although I doubt the Celtics would be first on their list as probable trading partners  ). Minnesota has given up assets to give Towns a co-star in Russell, so no chance that they will give up Towns anytime soon.

[Jvalin]

I am okay with keeping Hayward, but not at the expense of being in the luxury tax next year. Being able to restart the clock on the luxury tax would be enormous in terms of flexibility in the coming years. I feel as though people aren't seeing the long-term effects of this.

No one knows for sure what's going on with the cap. It seems certain that the early projections will be proven wrong. Unless we know the final figures, it's impossible to say whether it would be worth trading Hayward (assuming he opts in).

I think a player like Aaron Gordon would excel in the Cs line-up as a small-ball center.

If you ask me, Gordon ain't tall/long enough to play at the 5.

height without shoes: 6' 7.5''
wingspan: 6' 11.75''
standing reach: 8' 9''

Theis is 6'8'' as well, but he's rumored to have a huge wingspan which helps him a lot on both sides of the ball. Unfortunately, he never attended the combine, hence we don't have access to his exact measurements.

[keevsnick]

@ jambr380, keevsnick

I believe Hayward is our 3rd best player right now. Imo, he had a better season than Brown. Don't want us to trade him for cap relief. It would suck big time.

If we were to make a blockbuster deal (which I believe we won't), I'd rather we trade Kemba. The way I see it, he's a luxury, not a necessity. I mean, we already got Smart. I'd be perfectly happy with Smart as our starting PG.

I'll take Brown over Hayward any day moving forward. I would be willing to move Kemba for Simmons - I already fully backed your position above - but I am not sure that option is going to be on the table (PHI should do everything they can to hold on to Simmons and Embiid and try to figure the rest out).

I am okay with keeping Hayward, but not at the expense of being in the luxury tax next year. Being able to restart the clock on the luxury tax would be enormous in terms of flexibility in the coming years. I feel as though people aren't seeing the long-term effects of this.

The players I brought up are hardly salary dumps (and I doubt the Magic and Pacers would have any interest). I think a player like Aaron Gordon would excel in the Cs line-up as a small-ball center. The problem with Hayward is that he just isn't going to garner much interest as an expiring $34M contract. We do have picks, but they aren't exactly of the juicy variety anymore. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Ya Brown was just clearly better this year, just as efficient on higher volume and a far better defender. And thats before we factor in that Brown is 23 and Hayward is 30.

But this isnt a question about Brown vs Hayward. Its about the construction of the team going forward. What I think is most likely to  happen is Hayward opts in and the Celtics move forward and try to win it all next year. Thats certainly a good outcome. Still, I think IF there is a big move Hayward is almost certainly part of  it given his salary, age and positionally redundancy. I think it makes some sense to try and turn him into multiple 10-20 million dollar players to help with out depth going forward, or turn him into a high level defensive center because as much as I love Theis he has 1 year left on his deal. 

[Monkhouse]

These are some stars I can see possibly requesting a trade, I'm not saying they could wear green, but it is a probable chance.

Donovan Mitchell - I really like his game, but I fear his inability to adjust and make smarter reads will hinder him. Is he the go to guy? I don't know, but 24/4/4 are pretty excellent numbers. I'm probably creating some false narrative, but I don't know if Mitchell or Gobert can ever co-exist. Mitchell seems to want to take the shots, and while he's averaging 4.2 APG, he also sports USG rate of 30.5%, which is ranked 15th in the NBA.

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

James Harden - I know the Rockets built the team up to try to contend for the next 1-2 years, but how much more longer will Harden be able to stay with a team that hasn't made the Finals after two ugly losses in the WCF? People don't like Harden, I get it. I think he's one of the greatest scorers we've ever seen, and people don't like the fact that he 'flops,' or gets easy buckets. (Imagine that.) Even if he's a shot chucker by your arranged definition, he's still talented scoring guard that can be locked in on defense as evidenced in the playoffs, and is a skilled passer. You don't just win MVP, and possibly two, (I think he got robbed from Curry,) by not being a great player.

Bradley Beal - Wizards. Enough said.

Devin Booker - Suns. Enough said.

Jrue Holiday - Defensive guard that is just dynamite on that end, but he’s also grown so much on the offensive end that he’s become grossly underrated as a shot maker. He’s tough as nails, excellent soft touch, with a great creative mind at how he manages to contort himself into the lane. If he wasn't in the super stacked Western Conference, who knows how many All-Star berths he might've earned in the NBA? His defense as I mentioned before, is almost underrated at this point. He's given Lillard so much nightmares during that sweep in 2018, that Lillard literally said he spent the entire off-season working on his game. He's taken on a great leadership role, and Zion/Ingram/Ball have all sung nothing but praises about his awesome mentor-ship.

[Jvalin]

Anyway, even though I asked for it, it's hard to come up with a trade with either Walker or Hayward that would bring back a star that would make sense for the Celtics roster and is realistic. I can see Gobert becoming available and maybe Philly will listen to offers for Simmons (although I doubt the Celtics would be first on their list as probable trading partners  ). Minnesota has given up assets to give Towns a co-star in Russell, so no chance that they will give up Towns anytime soon.

There's also the option of trading Kemba for Bam like we did in the mock off season, but I don't think the Heat would pull the trigger in real life. Here was the trade we agreed upon, in case anyone thinks it may be a realistic possibility.

Boston in: Bam + Iggy + Olynyk
Miami in: Kemba + Theis + Time Lord + Moritz Wagner let's say a first round pick

Technically speaking, it would have to be 2 different trades. The Heat have a 7,533,867 TPE from the James Johnson trade. They absorb Time Lord's contract via this TPE.

[Monkhouse]

Anyway, even though I asked for it, it's hard to come up with a trade with either Walker or Hayward that would bring back a star that would make sense for the Celtics roster and is realistic. I can see Gobert becoming available and maybe Philly will listen to offers for Simmons (although I doubt the Celtics would be first on their list as probable trading partners  ). Minnesota has given up assets to give Towns a co-star in Russell, so no chance that they will give up Towns anytime soon.

There's also the option of trading Kemba for Bam like we did in the mock off season, but I don't think the Heat would pull the trigger in real life. Here was the trade we agreed upon, in case anyone thinks it may be a realistic possibility.

Boston in: Bam + Iggy + Olynyk
Miami in: Kemba + Theis + Time Lord + Moritz Wagner let's say a first round pick

Technically speaking, it would have to be 2 different trades. The Heat have a 7,533,867 TPE from the James Johnson trade. They absorb Time Lord's contract via this TPE.

We can only dream.

I'd say out of most players in the NBA, Bam seems to do one of the finest jobs at guarding Giannis.

Every time the Heat plays the Bucks, it just ends up being one of the most scrappiest fights with scores ending up like 94-89 lol.

If we had a core of Smart, Bam, Brown & Tatum? That's a dynasty.

[Jvalin]

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

CP3 for Kemba straight up is a valid trade, salary-wise.

https://tradenba.com/trades/uxUhDOznq

Would you guys consider it? Do you think the Thunder would consider it?

[Monkhouse]

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

CP3 for Kemba straight up is a valid trade, salary-wise.

https://tradenba.com/trades/uxUhDOznq

Would you guys consider it? Do you think the Thunder would consider it?

That contract is bonkers though lol. Way too much $$$.

I think the Thunder would agree to that trade. Paul has maybe 1 or 2 more solid to above average years. I think Walker's knee concerns are overblown, but I still don't know the full extent to the story. So who knows? I just don't see that happening.

[gouki88]

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

CP3 for Kemba straight up is a valid trade, salary-wise.

https://tradenba.com/trades/uxUhDOznq

Would you guys consider it? Do you think the Thunder would consider it?

That contract is bonkers though lol. Way too much $$$.

I think the Thunder would agree to that trade. Paul has maybe 1 or 2 more solid to above average years. I think Walker's knee concerns are overblown, but I still don't know the full extent to the story. So who knows? I just don't see that happening.

It’s a lot of money per year, but it’s not that long. I’d consider it if Kemba’s knee is a serious problem.

Also, I’m not necessarily opposed to Simmons on this team. I just think saying his shooting won’t hurt us because Giannis’ astronomically better shooting hasn’t hurt the Bucks is a lazy comparison.

[Jvalin]

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

CP3 for Kemba straight up is a valid trade, salary-wise.

https://tradenba.com/trades/uxUhDOznq

Would you guys consider it? Do you think the Thunder would consider it?

That contract is bonkers though lol. Way too much $$$.

Way too much $$$, but Kemba's contract runs for 1 more year. Right now, Paul > Kemba.

Not sure whether I'd pull the trigger. Just playing devil's advocate.

It might be worth considering CP3, especially if we can't avoid the tax next season.

[Monkhouse]

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

CP3 for Kemba straight up is a valid trade, salary-wise.

https://tradenba.com/trades/uxUhDOznq

Would you guys consider it? Do you think the Thunder would consider it?

That contract is bonkers though lol. Way too much $$$.

Way too much $$$, but Kemba's contract runs for 1 more year. Right now, Paul > Kemba.

Not sure whether I'd pull the trigger. Just playing devil's advocate.

It might be worth considering CP3, especially if we can't avoid the tax next season.

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

CP3 for Kemba straight up is a valid trade, salary-wise.

https://tradenba.com/trades/uxUhDOznq

Would you guys consider it? Do you think the Thunder would consider it?

That contract is bonkers though lol. Way too much $$$.

I think the Thunder would agree to that trade. Paul has maybe 1 or 2 more solid to above average years. I think Walker's knee concerns are overblown, but I still don't know the full extent to the story. So who knows? I just don't see that happening.

It’s a lot of money per year, but it’s not that long. I’d consider it if Kemba’s knee is a serious problem.

Also, I’m not necessarily opposed to Simmons on this team. I just think saying his shooting won’t hurt us because Giannis’ astronomically better shooting hasn’t hurt the Bucks is a lazy comparison.

I'm not opposed to Simmons either. He could fit well with our team, I still think he has some ego issues that he needs to resolve.

That being said, Walker for CP3 straight up? I'd probably do that. I love CP3, I grew up watching him during his tenure with NOLA. He was always amazing to witness, and I'm proud to say I've seen him several games ingame, and he never ceases to surprise us with his ball handling.

I'm certainly playing devils advocate here, but at first I was a huge fan of the signing, but now I'm sort of souring on it. I like Walker, and any time you can get a starting All-Star PG that doesn't mind playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle to a younger player, you should sign him. But I wonder if his knee issues were well documented by the Hornets organization, or they had some feeling he was going to eventually break down.

Honestly, I was more miffed at the fact Kyrie, who sort of was a free agent in the sense that he could dictate where he wanted to go, wanted to leave from such a historic franchise. Some players just can't take the heat. I didn't want him after that Bucks series either.

But in our motion offense, I prefer to have a more defensive minded passing point guard that can make 3's, and won't take away shots from the Jays or Hayward. And Smart fits that to a T. I think his impact is better off as a starter.

I really wanted Dorian-Finney Smith; he's been lights out and is a great defender along with his ridiculous underpaid contract of 3/12.

Oof. Mavericks really lucked out on getting him.

Even Jeff Green has been lights out for the Rockets. (Where was those numbers Uncle Snooze?)

__

I'm also going to play devils advocate ---

James Harden wants a trade out, yay or nay?

Let's assume he chooses Boston as one of his destination which limits his trade value somewhat --- and the Rockets definitely want a minimum of Jaylen Brown, Theis, and some draft picks as the starting conversation? What do y'all think?

[keevsnick]

Anyway, even though I asked for it, it's hard to come up with a trade with either Walker or Hayward that would bring back a star that would make sense for the Celtics roster and is realistic. I can see Gobert becoming available and maybe Philly will listen to offers for Simmons (although I doubt the Celtics would be first on their list as probable trading partners  ). Minnesota has given up assets to give Towns a co-star in Russell, so no chance that they will give up Towns anytime soon.

There's also the option of trading Kemba for Bam like we did in the mock off season, but I don't think the Heat would pull the trigger in real life. Here was the trade we agreed upon, in case anyone thinks it may be a realistic possibility.

Boston in: Bam + Iggy + Olynyk
Miami in: Kemba + Theis + Time Lord + Moritz Wagner let's say a first round pick

Technically speaking, it would have to be 2 different trades. The Heat have a 7,533,867 TPE from the James Johnson trade. They absorb Time Lord's contract via this TPE.

Ya the heat would never do it, partly because taking on Kemba means absorbing salary after next year which inhibits their ability to go after a max guy like Giannis in the summer 21.

But also Bam is 22, kemba is 30.

Paul adds money to out books, and I dont think the Thunder do that because the whole point of trading Paul is to wipe your books clean and get bad enough to get top picks. Kemba does neither of those things.

I can't see the sixers trading a 23 year old for a 30 year old, especially when most in the NBA already see Simmons as a better player. I mean if the sixers wanted to keep a 30 year old scoring with health issues they could have kept Butler 

[gouki88]

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

CP3 for Kemba straight up is a valid trade, salary-wise.

https://tradenba.com/trades/uxUhDOznq

Would you guys consider it? Do you think the Thunder would consider it?

That contract is bonkers though lol. Way too much $$$.

Way too much $$$, but Kemba's contract runs for 1 more year. Right now, Paul > Kemba.

Not sure whether I'd pull the trigger. Just playing devil's advocate.

It might be worth considering CP3, especially if we can't avoid the tax next season.

Chris Paul - If he wasn't getting paid over $40 million, he'd be a perfect fit on most teams. He's still showing us the reason why he was called Point God, and he is the ipso facto leader for that OKC. My only qualms with him is that his main pursuit is to win a ring. If he truly does win a ring, he's definitely up in that upper tier of superstars, and would be heralded as one of the greatest PG's ever, (Magic Johnson & Stockton takes that cake for me personally.)

CP3 for Kemba straight up is a valid trade, salary-wise.

https://tradenba.com/trades/uxUhDOznq

Would you guys consider it? Do you think the Thunder would consider it?

That contract is bonkers though lol. Way too much $$$.

I think the Thunder would agree to that trade. Paul has maybe 1 or 2 more solid to above average years. I think Walker's knee concerns are overblown, but I still don't know the full extent to the story. So who knows? I just don't see that happening.

It’s a lot of money per year, but it’s not that long. I’d consider it if Kemba’s knee is a serious problem.

Also, I’m not necessarily opposed to Simmons on this team. I just think saying his shooting won’t hurt us because Giannis’ astronomically better shooting hasn’t hurt the Bucks is a lazy comparison.

I'm not opposed to Simmons either. He could fit well with our team, I still think he has some ego issues that he needs to resolve.

That being said, Walker for CP3 straight up? I'd probably do that. I love CP3, I grew up watching him during his tenure with NOLA. He was always amazing to witness, and I'm proud to say I've seen him several games ingame, and he never ceases to surprise us with his ball handling.

I'm certainly playing devils advocate here, but at first I was a huge fan of the signing, but now I'm sort of souring on it. I like Walker, and any time you can get a starting All-Star PG that doesn't mind playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle to a younger player, you should sign him. But I wonder if his knee issues were well documented by the Hornets organization, or they had some feeling he was going to eventually break down.

Honestly, I was more miffed at the fact Kyrie, who sort of was a free agent in the sense that he could dictate where he wanted to go, wanted to leave from such a historic franchise. Some players just can't take the heat. I didn't want him after that Bucks series either.

But in our motion offense, I prefer to have a more defensive minded passing point guard that can make 3's, and won't take away shots from the Jays or Hayward. And Smart fits that to a T. I think his impact is better off as a starter.

I really wanted Dorian-Finney Smith; he's been lights out and is a great defender along with his ridiculous underpaid contract of 3/12.

Oof. Mavericks really lucked out on getting him.

Even Jeff Green has been lights out for the Rockets. (Where was those numbers Uncle Snooze?)

__

I'm also going to play devils advocate ---

James Harden wants a trade out, yay or nay?

Let's assume he chooses Boston as one of his destination which limits his trade value somewhat --- and the Rockets definitely want a minimum of Jaylen Brown, Theis, and some draft picks as the starting conversation? What do y'all think?

Man, that Harden one is tricky. I think he could definitely impede the development of Tatum, which is a big negative. But on the other hand, having Smart and Tatum cover his weaknesses defensively, Kemba and Tatum on the wings (I assume we’ve kept Kemba) shooting lights out, and a potential Clint Capela 2.0 in Timelord really seems like the perfect crew to maximise his ability.

Ultimately I probably say no because I despise Harden’s attitude, and I think Tatum can develop into a legit championship winning #1 option if he’s allowed to, which I think Harden stops.

Kemba for CP3 is probably a deal I would have to do. Paul is a better defender and passer, and is still a really solid shooter and scorer himself. He’d also make Brads life really easy. Kemba’s knee does concern me, but I want to give him a chance to prove his health before trading him. Would be terrible optics for Ainge given the IT debacle.