Realistic Celtics Line-up w/ Cap Questions

[ummidkme]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to throw out a possible Cs lineup for 2017-18, while taking the cap implications for 2018-19 seriously. I began first by looking at Bernardoni's work (the link is also down below) while feeling that Option Five is the most likely road the Cs should take.

With that in mind I have the Cs trading Bradley, renouncing, Kelly Olynyk, waiving Tyler Zeller and Jordan Mickey, while also having James Young, Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, Gerald Green not return. I also use Pick #53 and/or Pick #56 to move up to pick Bam Adebayo, if necessary. Whatever is left over will be a draft-and-stash player. Also, it's good to note that the league is implementing 2-way players next (at a cost 275K). Below I go over possible options and how things get complicated due to changes in the luxury tax.

Depth Chart 2017-18

A. Team
Isaiah Thomas (6.2) / Markelle Fultz (7) / Demetrius Jackson (1.3)
Gordon Hayward (30.3) / Marcus Smart (4.5) / Terry Rozier (2)
Jae Crowder (6.7) / Jaylen Brown (5) / Abdel Nader (Projected 1.3)
JaMychal Green (12) / Guerschon Yabusele (2) / 2-way player (.275)
Al Horford (28) / Ante Zizic (1.6) / Pick # 37-Bam Adebayo (Projected 1.3)

Cap Space= $100 [Current=$109.4] Luxury Tax=$120

B. Team
Isaiah Thomas (6.2) / Markelle Fultz (7) / Demetrius Jackson (1.3)
Gordon Hayward (30.3) / Marcus Smart (4.5) / Terry Rozier (2)
Jae Crowder (6.7) / Jaylen Brown (5) / Abdel Nader (Projected 1.3)
Taj Gibson (5) / Guerschon Yabusele (2) / 2-way player (.275)
Al Horford (28) / Ante Zizic (1.6) / Pick # 37-Bam Adebayo (Projected 1.3)

Cap Space= $100 [Current=$102.4] Luxury Tax=$120

Although either lineup goes over the projected Cap Space for next year, we never get close to the Luxury Tax. I want to go over bigs (JaMychal Green, Dewayne Dedmon) or cheaper options (Taj Gibson, Andrew Bogut, Kyle O'Quinn, Donatas Motiejunas) in order to boost our front court depth. Things however get complicated if the Cs try to stay below luxury cap territory in 2018-19 given that things get ridiculously expensive the more you go over the cap. It was for this reason that I not retain Marcus Smart. Although I love his grit and hustle I think having additional front-court help (rebounders!) is necessary.**

Depth Chart 2018-19

A. Team
Isaiah Thomas (31) / Markelle Fultz (7) / Demetrius Jackson (1.3)
Jaylen Brown (5.1) / Terry Rozier (3) / 2-way player (.275)
Gordon Hayward (31) / Jae Crowder (7.3) / Abdel Nader (1.3)
Al Horford (28) / JaMychal Green (12) / Guerschon Yabusele (2)
Mohamed Bamba* C (5-7) / Ante Zizic (1.6) / Bam Adebayo (1.3)

Cap Space= $104 [Current=$138 to 140] Luxury Tax=$126 [$12-14 over luxury]

B. Team
Isaiah Thomas (31) / Markelle Fultz (7) / Demetrius Jackson (1.3)
Jaylen Brown (5.1) / Terry Rozier (3) / 2-way player (.275)
Gordon Hayward (31) / Jae Crowder (7.3) / Abdel Nader (1.3)
Al Horford (28) / Taj Gibson (5) / Guerschon Yabusele (2)
Mohamed Bamba* C (5-7) / Ante Zizic (1.6) / Bam Adebayo (1.3)

Cap Space= $104 [Current=$131 to 133] Luxury Tax=$126 [$5-7 over luxury]

Other Possible Prospects (Brooklyn Pick, 1-4)*: Mohamed Bamba C, Michael Porter PF, Deandre Ayton C, Luka Doncic SG

I've also added a C option for those who love Marcus Smart by substituting Terry Rozier. This would have further cap implications going into 2019-20 though and beyond as our players on rookie scale contract will also need to be paid.**

Depth Chart 2018-19

C. Team
Isaiah Thomas (31) / Markelle Fultz (7) / Demetrius Jackson (1.3)
Jaylen Brown (5.1) / Marcus Smart (12) / 2-way player (.275)
Gordon Hayward (31) / Jae Crowder (7.3) / Abdel Nader (1.3)
Al Horford (28) / JaMychal Green (12) / Guerschon Yabusele (2)
Mohamed Bamba* C (5-7) / Ante Zizic (1.6) / Bam Adebayo (1.3)

Cap Space= $104 [Current=$147 to 149] Luxury Tax=$126 [$21-23 over luxury]

C. Team
Isaiah Thomas (31) / Markelle Fultz (7) / Demetrius Jackson (1.3)
Jaylen Brown (5.1) / Marcus Smart (12) / 2-way player (.275)
Gordon Hayward (31) / Jae Crowder (7.3) / Abdel Nader (1.3)
Al Horford (28) / Taj Gibson (5) / Guerschon Yabusele (2)
Mohamed Bamba* C (5-7) / Ante Zizic (1.6) / Bam Adebayo (1.3)

Cap Space= $104 [Current=$140 to 142] Luxury Tax=$126 [$14-16 over luxury]


With all that being said what do you guys thinks? Are these possible options that keeps us competitive now (Thomas, Hayward, Horford), while building up the future (Fultz, Brown, Brooklyn 18 pick*), and keeping us as close to the luxury tax as possible. If so, which do you prefer? If not, what would be your preferred options?

A lot of salary cap implications were done using this great article by Ryan Bernardoni: http://www.celticshub.com/2017/05/26/looking-forward-celtics-future/

[Roy H.]

I appreciate the effort, but how are you adding Green?

We can't sign outside free agents unless it's via cap room or an "exception", in our case the $4.3 million room exception and the veterans minimum.

[ETNCeltics]

It's unrealistic to expect the Celts to go that far over the cap. Maybe one year, but repeat offender would be crippling, almost no one will go there, maybe the Knicks.

[saltlover]

I appreciate the effort, but how are you adding Green?

We can't sign outside free agents unless it's via cap room or an "exception", in our case the $4.3 million room exception and the veterans minimum.

The way you add Green (not that this is what the OP has done) is create Hayward space by letting Olynyk walk, moving Rozier and Jackson, and then sign-and-trading for Green after Hayward has signed, sending Memphis Avery Bradley.  $12 million is the right amount for Green, such that Bradley still fits into the trade rules for Memphis, since Green would only count for $6 million in outgoing salary, meaning Memphis could take back $9.1 million, just enough for AB.  And as AB can bring back just under $14 million, it works on the Celtics end too.

It'd probably require Hayward to take a couple hundred thousand less than the max, unless the salary cap is on the high side of the $101-102 million range.  It's an idea I came up with yesterday -- it requires Memphis to play along with the sign-and-trade, but I think they might.  AB is a great fit for that team.

[Roy H.]

I appreciate the effort, but how are you adding Green?

We can't sign outside free agents unless it's via cap room or an "exception", in our case the $4.3 million room exception and the veterans minimum.

The way you add Green (not that this is what the OP has done) is create Hayward space by letting Olynyk walk, moving Rozier and Jackson, and then sign-and-trading for Green after Hayward has signed, sending Memphis Avery Bradley.  $12 million is the right amount for Green, such that Bradley still fits into the trade rules for Memphis, since Green would only count for $6 million in outgoing salary, meaning Memphis could take back $9.1 million, just enough for AB.  And as AB can bring back just under $14 million, it works on the Celtics end too.

It'd probably require Hayward to take a couple hundred thousand less than the max, unless the salary cap is on the high side of the $101-102 million range.  It's an idea I came up with yesterday -- it requires Memphis to play along with the sign-and-trade, but I think they might.  AB is a great fit for that team.

Yeah, moves like that are certainly possible, and I'm starting to think that we're more likely to add an outside free agent rather than keeping KO. But, as you noted, the OP's method doesn't get us there.

I've got to confess, I haven't watched enough of Green. I just don't find the Grizzlies to be that appealing to watch, so I've got to rely on stats and scouting reports. Based on those, he seems like a good role player. Does he have upside, or are you basically hoping for 10/8 from him?

[saltlover]

I appreciate the effort, but how are you adding Green?

We can't sign outside free agents unless it's via cap room or an "exception", in our case the $4.3 million room exception and the veterans minimum.

The way you add Green (not that this is what the OP has done) is create Hayward space by letting Olynyk walk, moving Rozier and Jackson, and then sign-and-trading for Green after Hayward has signed, sending Memphis Avery Bradley.  $12 million is the right amount for Green, such that Bradley still fits into the trade rules for Memphis, since Green would only count for $6 million in outgoing salary, meaning Memphis could take back $9.1 million, just enough for AB.  And as AB can bring back just under $14 million, it works on the Celtics end too.

It'd probably require Hayward to take a couple hundred thousand less than the max, unless the salary cap is on the high side of the $101-102 million range.  It's an idea I came up with yesterday -- it requires Memphis to play along with the sign-and-trade, but I think they might.  AB is a great fit for that team.

Yeah, moves like that are certainly possible, and I'm starting to think that we're more likely to add an outside free agent rather than keeping KO. But, as you noted, the OP's method doesn't get us there.

I've got to confess, I haven't watched enough of Green. I just don't find the Grizzlies to be that appealing to watch, so I've got to rely on stats and scouting reports. Based on those, he seems like a good role player. Does he have upside, or are you basically hoping for 10/8 from him?

I don't think he has much upside in terms of growth to his game, but he's the type of role player we need at PF.  Strong rebounder, good 3-point shooting, and a good finisher at the rim.  I haven't seen completely enough of him either, but what I've seen makes me think he might be a better fit for this team than Olynyk.

[ummidkme]

I appreciate the effort, but how are you adding Green?

We can't sign outside free agents unless it's via cap room or an "exception", in our case the $4.3 million room exception and the veterans minimum.

The way you add Green (not that this is what the OP has done) is create Hayward space by letting Olynyk walk, moving Rozier and Jackson, and then sign-and-trading for Green after Hayward has signed, sending Memphis Avery Bradley.  $12 million is the right amount for Green, such that Bradley still fits into the trade rules for Memphis, since Green would only count for $6 million in outgoing salary, meaning Memphis could take back $9.1 million, just enough for AB.  And as AB can bring back just under $14 million, it works on the Celtics end too.

It'd probably require Hayward to take a couple hundred thousand less than the max, unless the salary cap is on the high side of the $101-102 million range.  It's an idea I came up with yesterday -- it requires Memphis to play along with the sign-and-trade, but I think they might.  AB is a great fit for that team.

Yeah, moves like that are certainly possible, and I'm starting to think that we're more likely to add an outside free agent rather than keeping KO. But, as you noted, the OP's method doesn't get us there.

I've got to confess, I haven't watched enough of Green. I just don't find the Grizzlies to be that appealing to watch, so I've got to rely on stats and scouting reports. Based on those, he seems like a good role player. Does he have upside, or are you basically hoping for 10/8 from him?

Thank you to everyone who has answered so far. I admit the addition of a rebounder or capable big (such as Green) is something that I was struggling to add given my limited understanding of cap and what is and is not possible via free agent signing. I do like saltlover's suggestion and have thus made a much more realistic Option D. Also, I am adding Green because I think he has a lot of upside in terms of fit alongside Horford as a rebounder as well as fitting Brad Steven's scheme (three point shooting and stretch big). So if possible we trade Bradley for Green, after Hayward has signed, by further releasing Jackson and Rozier or trading them for future assets.

Depth Chart 2017-18

D. Team
Isaiah Thomas (6.2) / Markelle Fultz (7) / 2-way player (.275)
Gordon Hayward (30.3) / Marcus Smart (4.5) / #56 or minimum vet signing (Gerald Green? 1.3)
Jae Crowder (6.7) / Jaylen Brown (5) / Abdel Nader (Projected 1.3)
JaMychal Green (12) / Guerschon Yabusele (2) / 2-way player (.275)
Al Horford (28) / Ante Zizic (1.6) / Pick # 37-Bam Adebayo (Projected 1.3)

Cap Space= $100 [Current=$107.8] Luxury Tax=$120 

Depth Chart 2018-19

D. Team
Isaiah Thomas (31) / Markelle Fultz (7) / 2-way player (.275)
Jaylen Brown (5.1) / #27 (Projected 1.4) / 2-way player (.275)
Gordon Hayward (31) / Jae Crowder (7.3) / Abdel Nader (1.3)
Al Horford (28) / JaMychal Green (12) / Guerschon Yabusele (2)
Mohamed Bamba* C (5-7) / Ante Zizic (1.6) / Bam Adebayo (1.3)

Cap Space= $104 [Current=$135.4 to 137.4] Luxury Tax=$126 [$9.4-11.4 over luxury]

I know with this option a lot of our guard depth has gone away, but even keeping Marcus Smart would put us way over the luxury tax.