Who would you rather have? Wally/ Delonte or Ray Allen

[LB3533]

I've seen a full season with both Wally and West and in truth, a full season of Wally is like 50-60 games LOL.

I've seen a full season with Ray Allen and I'll tell you which season was better and more enjoyable....it was certainly the season with less tats.

[CoachCowens]

if we didnt acquire ray, then we would never have landed kg!

But if you think in Hypothetical terms with hindsight being 20/20. I wonder if KG is thinking, I wish I came over and the C's kept Wally Delonte and the pick. Sure Ray Allen is the best player of that lot but he is getting older by the day and his contract is a killer. The C's window looks shorter and shorter.

hypotheticals arent real.  my previous statement is factual.  kg himself stated that he agreed to come here after the celts landed ray allen to go alongside pierce. 

I wasn't debating that hypotheticals are real. Not arguing what KG said either. Just saying, Looking at it now I think KG would have been better off with Wally(2009 expiring contract), West and the number 5 pick. Unless there is still something physically wrong with Ray's ankles that is hampering him this season. He just doesn't have that quickness that allowed him to get separation in past years.     

[Celtic]

Ray Allen by a whisker.
I'm not here to defend the original poster, but to some others who are jumping on him with comments like "anyone who doesn't think Ray Allen is better than Wally doesn't know basketball"(paraphrase), maybe he's basing it on the present and not on reputation?  Because for the last couple of games Wally has been better.
NO, I don't want Wally back, but if he's healthy he's a good fit for Cleveland.  I just wish Allen(and PP, and Rondo, and Sam) would all play just a little bit better and end this series.

I made the "anyone who doesn't think Ray Allen is better than Wally doesn't know basketball" and I stand by it. Yes, Wally has killed Ray in this series, but this series does not a player make. Ray has accomplished so much more in his career, and has accomplished more this season. The question wasn't who has been better this season, but rather who would I rather have on my team. To me this is a no-brainer, one is an elite scorer in the NBA capable of changing a game at any time, and one is a spot up shooter who is the 3rd option on any team in the league at best.

[guava_wrench]

I was very surprised the Sonics were able to get a top 5 pick for Ray Allen at his age and with his contract. C's have passed on a lot of talent to take a small window shot with this group. We passed on the CP3/Pierce draft day trade a few yr ago, pased on Brandon Roy and traded the pick, traded this past yr's lottery pick, and traded Al Jefferson. personally, i would have gone the other way and made the Pierce trade. I think a CP3/jefferson/Roy trio would have set us up better, and imo would have been more exciting.

Ray Allen was probably worth a top 5 pick when he was on the Bucks. That Ray Allen would have been great to have. And honestly I'd of loved to of had a younger KG too. he's about to lose something really quick too.

You can't be serious - "probably worth a top 5 pick when he was on the Bucks"?

He would have been worth way more than a single lottery pick. The guy is an 8 time all star and you are talking about his prime.

I think I have to discount your whole post based on that alone. Your credibility is shot.

It also isn't very insightful to say, "looking back, I would have made all of these moves...", especially without mentioning all the silly moves you also would have made at the time. Are you going to pretend you wanted Jefferson when he was drafted? Even if you truly wanted the PP trade and to keep Roy, how would you have known that Jefferson was the way to go?

The silliest posts are the 'should have done X' posts where people pretend they knew all along all the moves that should have been done.

[Roy Hobbs]

Did anyone actually read the first post in this thread, or just the title?

[jack]

Didn't mean to create any hostility.  All that I'm saying is that this team will eventually reach it's peak sooner rather than later.  I would definitely look into trading some salary for not only picks but other commodities if available.  I would rather be a team like San Antonio or Detroit who compete every year, not a one hit wonder like Miami. The salary cap is always going to be a major issue, but that is why GM's have to be creative.  Who ever thought the Gasol deal could have been done.  There is always a GM looking for a quick fix and maybe would want Allen.  It's just there are alot of free agents out there now who will take less money to play with KG and Pierce than in the past.

[Who]

Didn't mean to create any hostility.  All that I'm saying is that this team will eventually reach it's peak sooner rather than later.  I would definitely look into trading some salary for not only picks but other commodities if available.  I would rather be a team like San Antonio or Detroit who compete every year, not a one hit wonder like Miami. The salary cap is always going to be a major issue, but that is why GM's have to be creative.  Who ever thought the Gasol deal could have been done.  There is always a GM looking for a quick fix and maybe would want Allen.  It's just there are alot of free agents out there now who will take less money to play with KG and Pierce than in the past.

Teams that look for quick fixes in the 33 year old variety rarely give up a large bounty. They're the Dallas' of the world, the not quite contenders that do not have good enough trading assets to get a good deal done. Good role players might be the heights you're looking at. It'd be very tough, probably impossible, for Ray to be upgraded in a trade.

When his contract gets closer to expiring it'll be a different scenario. Teams won't be trading for his talent but his contract. He'll have more trade value then.

Until then holding onto Ray is very likely the best option the Celtics have.

[Frontierboy]

I would trade Rondo for West straight up..... West has the same hussle and defense as Rondo and is a better shooter.

When I watch him play for Cleveland, he looks like he doesn't want to be ther and is just playing well to get a better contract next year with the Celtics....

I hope West is back with the C's next year.... probably to replace House ( since it's obvios that House won't be back next year)

[Jointhebombsquad]

if im a janitorial crew at any basketball facility in america, i want wally.
that guy mops the floors better than any 3 man crew ive ever seen.

[crownsy]

I would trade Rondo for West straight up..... West has the same hussle and defense as Rondo and is a better shooter.

When I watch him play for Cleveland, he looks like he doesn't want to be ther and is just playing well to get a better contract next year with the Celtics....

I hope West is back with the C's next year.... probably to replace House ( since it's obvios that House won't be back next year)

wow...just wow... you'd trade one of the fastest players in with a huge upside  who is;

-a much better defender
-a much better passer
- much better at driving
-younger
- better player by 5 times than delonte was at 21
-not injury prone (delonte picks up nagging injuries liek its his job)

stright up for dwest? i mean, i like dwest, but he's a backup...

wow... i bet donnie walsh wishes you were a gm

[crownsy]

Didn't mean to create any hostility.  All that I'm saying is that this team will eventually reach it's peak sooner rather than later.  I would definitely look into trading some salary for not only picks but other commodities if available.  I would rather be a team like San Antonio or Detroit who compete every year, not a one hit wonder like Miami. The salary cap is always going to be a major issue, but that is why GM's have to be creative.  Who ever thought the Gasol deal could have been done.  There is always a GM looking for a quick fix and maybe would want Allen.  It's just there are alot of free agents out there now who will take less money to play with KG and Pierce than in the past.

understood, but as me and roy have tried to point out, thats not how the cap works.

you would have to find a team who, right before free agency was willing to trade 17 million in expiring contracts to make the deal work. Why would they not just keep the cap room and go after the free agents you covet themselves? people seem to forget sometimes that in the real world, theres a gm on the other side who isn't going to sell you the farm just because your the celtics.

(of course, i wish this was true. as i said, my line up of dwight howard, KG, pierce, Ray allen, and rondo with posey off the bench is pretty sweet in NBA2k8. Thanks orlando, TA perk and the trade override button! )

and, even if you got rid of allen, you're missing that we would still be WELL OVER the salary cap. teams over the cap cannot make offers to free agents. so, you'd have to move pierce or KG too to be eligable to go out and offer to free agents.

I suppose you could work some kind of crazy sign and trade with a team, but im not sure there's a team out there who is going to take this phoen call;

"what? sign and trade our best free agent for ray allen? sure, im looking to completly nuke my salary cap and team for the next 5 years even though i could just a) try to resign my free agent B) go after a free agent with my upcoming cap space, lets make a deal"

well, mabey memphis, but they don't have anyone we want 

[pearljammer10]

What? Ray Allen without a doubt.

[Moranis]

If you are going to play this game, play it to the end.


1) no Ray Allen

then

2) KG does not want to come to Boston.  No KG


therefore


3) Pierce demands a trade.  No Pierce.

Or another way to look at it.

C's take Jianlian with the 5th pick.

C's trade Ratliff and Green to Memphis for Gasol.

C's with a young core of Gasol, Jefferson, Rondo, Perkins, and Jianlian set themselves up for the next decade, rather than waste Pierce, KG, and Allen with a terrible coach.

[NicaraguanFan]

I would rephrase this question as follows: What would rather do at this time of the season: rooting for the team in order to win a playoffs series or hoping the Celtics get the highest pick in the draft?

NF.

[ponch]

I was very surprised the Sonics were able to get a top 5 pick for Ray Allen at his age and with his contract. C's have passed on a lot of talent to take a small window shot with this group. We passed on the CP3/Pierce draft day trade a few yr ago, pased on Brandon Roy and traded the pick, traded this past yr's lottery pick, and traded Al Jefferson. personally, i would have gone the other way and made the Pierce trade. I think a CP3/jefferson/Roy trio would have set us up better, and imo would have been more exciting.

Ray Allen was probably worth a top 5 pick when he was on the Bucks. That Ray Allen would have been great to have. And honestly I'd of loved to of had a younger KG too. he's about to lose something really quick too.

You can't be serious - "probably worth a top 5 pick when he was on the Bucks"?

He would have been worth way more than a single lottery pick. The guy is an 8 time all star and you are talking about his prime.

I think I have to discount your whole post based on that alone. Your credibility is shot.

It also isn't very insightful to say, "looking back, I would have made all of these moves...", especially without mentioning all the silly moves you also would have made at the time. Are you going to pretend you wanted Jefferson when he was drafted? Even if you truly wanted the PP trade and to keep Roy, how would you have known that Jefferson was the way to go?

The silliest posts are the 'should have done X' posts where people pretend they knew all along all the moves that should have been done.

I agree, this post is silly, as well as inaccurate.  First off the C's did not "pass on CP3".  By all accounts Ainge was rabid for him, but either Portland backed off, or Pierce let it be known he didn't want to go to Portland.  Also, who thought Brandon Roy was going to be the stud that he is.  He slipped to the 7th pick in the draft.  It was only his strong showing in the tourney that got him up that high.  He also had injury concerns, and had the reputation of being good at a lot of things, but not being great at anything.

Finally I agree with Guava Wrench.  Playing the "what if" game is pointless.  What if the C's had taken T-Mac with one of their 2 top picks in the Duncan Draft.  What if they had not exercised their Phoenix pick the year before and drafted Amare in the 02 draft.  What if they had held onto Joe Johnson.  There are always what-ifs.  And if you play that game enough, you can put together an Olympic All-Star team, but it's not reality.