Amir Johnson to Celtics

[kozlodoev]

Celtics must believe Johnson can play the 5 full time in today's smaller, quicker NBA.

I think so. I think he is an upgrade as a defender & rebounder over T.Zeller. I think Amir should start at center and Zeller should be the backup center. Both guys are superb cutting to the basket and rolling to the rim in PnRs.

Not to mention Amir shot 40% from 3 last year.

Nah. Meet your new starting frontcourt: Amir Johnson and Tyler Zeller.

[Scintan]

Also I find it hilarious Jordan being idiotic and not taking our offer validates a lot of people here's idea that we have nothing of value to offer anyone.   He is a great GM after all.

a bunch of teams turned down that offer

Who else?

Miami,NY there was 1 more but can't remember now, i'll have to google it

Miami isn't interested in trading with us anyways for our pick.  Riley wouldn't trade with Ainge.

Not surprised we couldn't trade into the top 4.  That's virtually impossible to do ever.

And I'll be waiting.  Again, this is all being based off so little, it's funny.  Trading up is so hard to do because teams fall in love with their picks (as Ainge said).  Basing anything off Jordan not taking a good deal is just funny to me, especially trades we could make not on draft night to move up.

You asked for examples.  You got some, so there's no sense in moving the goalposts.  And blaming Jordan for not taking the offer is ludicrous.  You just have to flip the script to see how biased you're being.  If Boston really wanted a player there (and they did), they'd have preferred the player over the picks (and they did, which is why they offered up the picks), so there is no anti-Jordan high ground on this.

[Snakehead]

Also I find it hilarious Jordan being idiotic and not taking our offer validates a lot of people here's idea that we have nothing of value to offer anyone.   He is a great GM after all.

a bunch of teams turned down that offer

Who else?

Miami,NY there was 1 more but can't remember now, i'll have to google it

Miami isn't interested in trading with us anyways for our pick.  Riley wouldn't trade with Ainge.

Not surprised we couldn't trade into the top 4.  That's virtually impossible to do ever.

And I'll be waiting.  Again, this is all being based off so little, it's funny.  Trading up is so hard to do because teams fall in love with their picks (as Ainge said).  Basing anything off Jordan not taking a good deal is just funny to me, especially trades we could make not on draft night to move up.

You asked for examples.  You got some.  And blaming Jordan for not taking the offer is ludicrous.  You just have to flip the script to see how biased you're being.  If Boston really wanted a player there (and they did), they'd have preferred the player over the picks (and they did, which is why they offered up the picks), so there is no anti-Jordan high ground on this.

I got one example besides Jordan (Knicks with a top 5 pick, again impossible) and trading up on draft night is its own animal that's separate from trading at all other times.  So no, but thanks.

[LarBrd33]

snore

What would you do in Ainge's shoes? You're always very dismissive on all the moves we make, but the Sixers and Hinkie could do no wrong. So it'd be nice for you to provide an alternatve, with some actual names.

"Don't expect any big moves"

*Free agency starts*

"This offseason is boring"

*troll complete*

Edit: I think we can ease up on the accusations of him being a Sixers fan though. He's obviously a Celts fan.

I'm not sure about that. He posts a lot, but is he really a fan of the team or any of it's players?

Eddie20... fair point... Yes, I'm a lifelong fan of the Boston Celtics.  No, I'm not that big of a fan of the scrubs on the team right now.  I'm not rushing to the store to buy my Amir Johnson jersey.     I have a right to be disgruntled right now.  This team is irrelevant right now.  This roster isn't even remotely close to contending.   We have whiffed on every attempt to make a significant improvement for two years straight.  It's a tad depressing.   I'm not one for denial.   I wasn't a big fan of the Pierce/Walker treadmill teams either, but there were always some delusional fans who thought we were capable of upsetting the Shaq/Kobe teams if we just managed to sneak into the Finals.  I wasn't one of those people.  That team was mediocre.  This team might not even be mediocre.   We were below .500 last season.  I see a below .500 roster right now.

Okay, but you're absolutely in love with the Sixers.

Eddie... are you going to just keep saying this over and over again?    The frequent accusation makes me think you might be projecting your own emotions here.  Are you a closet 76er fan?  Do you want to tell me how you really feel, buddy?  It's ok... let it all out man...  you have a shoulder to cry on here.

I'm not sure if you're slow or just intentionally ignoring me when I continually respond to your trolling.   It's gotten to the point where people send me PM's asking me of I'm really a 76ers fan.  Seriously?   

To recap:

- I liked Noel well before he was on the 76ers... so did a lot of people here.
- I liked Embiid well before he was on the 76ers... as did Danny Ainge.  He tried to trade up for him.
- I liked Okafor well before he was on the 76ers... as did Danny Ainge.  He tried to trade up for him.

They all ended up on Philly.    All three are better than every chip on our team.  It is what it is, man.    I have repeatedly admitted that I'm jealous of 76er fans.   When news comes out that we tried trading Marcus Smart + several other assets to get the #4 pick, it's depressing knowing Philly had #3.    When news comes out that we tried to give up 6 draft picks to trade up to #9... it's depressing knowing that Philly has three assets that are better than that pick.

I like what they have done there.   It was ballsy.   Most of it is luck... but they have gone all-in on trying to acquire players who have a chance to develop into franchise players.    I wish my own team had 1 cornerstone player.  Philly has 3.   

But to suggest I'm a Philly fan is to suggest I'm a Golden State Warriors fans.   Years ago I was begging for Danny Ainge to trade for Steph Curry... this is when Steph Curry was an injured player averaging 15 points.  I was fully on board with trading Rondo for him.   If i'm a 76ers fan, then I'm also a Golden State fans.   

Years prior, I argued that Chris Paul was a better point guard than Rajon Rondo.   I guess I'm a Clippers fan by your logic?   

Again, I don't believe that being a fan of the Boston Celtics requires me to be delusional.  Amir Johnson is a role player.  We just gave him 12 million dollars.   I'm not particularly excited about it.   If I wanted Amir Johnson on this team, I would have made a post about it... but had I done that, you would have labelled me a Raptors fan. 

Btw Eddie... if you wouldn't trade our entire roster/assets straight up for Philly's roster/assets... you're lying.

[mctyson]

Ok, I'm officially confused...

Firstly, I actually really like Amir Johnson - have liked him ever since the first few times we played him back in the big 3 days, when he used to frequently hurt us on both ends of the floor with his energy and versatility.

Secondly, I understand the fit:

1) Johnson can (at a stretch) play and defend three positions - from SF through to Center.

2) He is an extremely efficient and pretty versatile scorer (1.37 PTS Per FGA over his career) who can score inside (career 70.5% FG inside 3 feet, 53% of his offense) from midrange (46% from 3ft-10ft, 38% from 10ft-16ft, 40% from 16ft-3PT) and can hit the open three (career 34% and 41% last season)

3) He has decent court feel for a big (2.1 AST Per 36, 9.4% Assist Percentage, Assist/Turnover ratio >1.0)

4) He's a solid and versatile defender (career 1.0 Steals Per 36, 1.7 Blocks Per 36) with a positive defensive RPM (if you put faith that stuff - some people don't, but it's there anyway) and (according to what I've seen subjectively) he has the mobility and size/strength to guard three positions.

5) From what I've seen he's a high energy guy with a great motor

So, he's pretty close to the perfect support player and his versatility probably makes him an upgrade for us over Sully (who I think is getting traded anyway), Bass (who doesn't have three point range and doesn't rebound or block shots) and Zeller (who has  been pretty horrible defensively).

He's 28 years old so no upside there, but we're going in to 'win now' mode so that's not such a big deal..

But...

TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS?!?!??!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I just can't understand that given that:
a) It seems we are paying near-star money to a guy who is a fringe starter (albeit a good one)
b) Danny was just quoted specifically stating that the doesn't want to overplay or lower tier talent

1) I am almost certain he is a replacement for Bass, and is at worst his equal with better rebounding/defense and better 3 pt shooting.  People saying 'why not sign Bass cheap' don't realize that Bass might get $9M or more in this market (he made $7M last season) and is 2 years older.

2) This immediately makes Sullinger expendable.  I have a feeling teams have not been thrilled with Sully as a trade piece, but Danny had to ask a lot for him because of his age/potential and the fact that Bass might leave.  Then Danny would be forced to overpay for any PF to fill in.

3) If you think of Amir Johnson as a C, this makes total sense, and I am already seeing how he fits with Jerebko at the PF.  That is a 4/5 combo that can shoot 40% from 3.

4) There is NO REASON for people on this board to be freaking out about the $12M price tag on a 2 year deal.  That is a favorable contract.  How about 3 years of Brook Lopez at $20M per?  That's a freak out.

5) Yes this is a "win-now" move.  The current roster had a near .600 winning percentage in the 2nd half of last year.  The only team in the East that was better went to the NBA finals.  There is no reason to believe that the Celtics cannot be a 50-win team smart additions to their core, and maybe one trade either this summer or at the trade deadline.

I like this signing and the Jerebko re-sign.

APPPROVED.

[gpap]

I like this move.

I've always liked Johnson and been impressed with him from watching him play on the Raptors.

Nice pick-up.

[gpap]

TWELVE MILLION A YEAR FOR AMIR JOHNSON BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I don't get your point.

It's not a bad deal at all.

You can't acquire talent with food stamps. You have to actually spend the money.

[crimson_stallion]

i dont have answers, but the new market efficiency pushed by ainge and CBS seems to be having players who can play 2-3 positions and switch on offense and defense to create mismatches, maybe even dictate mismatches.

i am guessing here.  but i noticed last year that when the celtics defended later in the season, they were able to frequently switch one defender for another without a real mismatch appearing. bass to jerebko to crowder, not that much difference.

I agree and I do think this is a major driving force in the moves that Ainge has been making lately.

He seems to be constantly going after these specific criteria:
a) Guys who can score in a variety of ways on offense
b) Guys who can over multiple positions on defence
c) Guys with high motor and/or high IQ

Pretty much every move they have made in the past couple of years (aside from trading for Thomas, trading for Zeller and drafting Sully) has pretty much followed this pattern:

Trading out Rondo (no positional versatility, questionable motor)
Trading out Green (questionable motor)
Trade for Jerebko (versatile, can play multiple positions, high motor)
Trade for Crowder (versatile, can play multiple positions, high motor)
Drafting Smart (versatile, can play multiple positions, high motor)
Drafting Olynyk (versatile, can play multiple positions, high IQ)
Drafting Rozier (versatile, can play multiple positions, high motor)
Drafting Hunter (versatile, can play multiple positions, high IQ)
Drafting Mickey (versatile, can plays multiple positions, high motor)

If this is true, then it seems logical that the move I've been predicting all along (trading out any of Sully, Bradley and Zeller) may not be far away because they are probably the only three guys on the roster who really don't have that much positional versatility (Bradley can't play PG offensively, Sully can't defend wings, Zeller can really only play center).

CBS knows more than me and is maybe making due until a super star arrives. but getting johnson makes sense from the "switchable parts" perspective and seems to follow a pattern.

I am on board with the superstar concept also.

I really feel like a trade is coming, possible for reasonably big name player, but I could be wrong. 

Either way Amir Johnson's versatility puts Danny in a strong position as a recruiter, because he can go after talented big men without having to worry about fit - Johnson is versatile enough that he can fit alongside anybody from Kevin Love to Greg Monroe to Deandre Jordan.

Danny might no even forsee a deal happening this season, but if he can't make one happen then he might be looking for versatile guys that make it easier for him to make deals throughout the season (or next season).

Look on the bright side - Cleveland is apparently close to reaching a 5 year $80M deal for Tristan Thompson...

I'd take Amir Johnson @ $24M/2 ($12M / Year) over Tristan Thompson @ $80M/5 ($16M / Year) any day lol

Clevleand also just signed the injury prone (and much statistically declined) Love to $110M/5 ($22M / Year).  Of course Love is worth that if he plays at a high level and stays healthy, but there's certainly some risk to that not happening...and they are essentially financially crippled now for a LONG time....if things don't pan out with Love and Thompson they are closing in on Brooklyn Nets territory.

Doesn't increase the amount of sense I'm making from this Amir Johnson contract, but at least it makes me a bit happier knowing we aren't the only ones lol

[Scintan]

Also I find it hilarious Jordan being idiotic and not taking our offer validates a lot of people here's idea that we have nothing of value to offer anyone.   He is a great GM after all.

a bunch of teams turned down that offer

Who else?

Miami,NY there was 1 more but can't remember now, i'll have to google it

Miami isn't interested in trading with us anyways for our pick.  Riley wouldn't trade with Ainge.

Not surprised we couldn't trade into the top 4.  That's virtually impossible to do ever.

And I'll be waiting.  Again, this is all being based off so little, it's funny.  Trading up is so hard to do because teams fall in love with their picks (as Ainge said).  Basing anything off Jordan not taking a good deal is just funny to me, especially trades we could make not on draft night to move up.

You asked for examples.  You got some.  And blaming Jordan for not taking the offer is ludicrous.  You just have to flip the script to see how biased you're being.  If Boston really wanted a player there (and they did), they'd have preferred the player over the picks (and they did, which is why they offered up the picks), so there is no anti-Jordan high ground on this.

I got one example besides Jordan (Knicks with a top 5 pick, again impossible) and trading up on draft night is its own animal that's separate from trading at all other times.  So no, but thanks.

Trading has to make sense.  You have to have a team that values the picks more than the players, and a team that values the player more than the picks.  In this case, you had two teams that valued the players.  That doesn't make Jordan a fool, anymore than it makes Ainge a fool.  Though it's certainly valid to question talent evaluation issues, that's not the same as banging on a guy over not taking picks. 

Whenever you've got these kinds of situations, take yourself out of Celtics cheerleader mode, and put yourself into the opponent's position.  It helps to understand and evaluate decisions.


As for the other thing, yes, you were moving the goalposts.  It was obvious you were going to do that when you asked the question in the first place, since the question was such a set up.

[gpap]

2 years, $24 million.

No thank you.  He's never been a favorite of mine.

Why?

[SHAQATTACK]

Turrible

Turrible

Turrible


Amir is JUsT good enough

To help us

Get the one or two extra wins

That knocks. Us

Out of the Lottery.

[gpap]

I think this is a great pick up that everyone will overlook. His game is a perfect fit/mold for the way Stevens plays the game.

Much agreed my friend.

I think some people are still suck on this "but we have Sully and Olynyk" mind frame.

Amir is an upgrade IMO

[Eddie20]

snore

What would you do in Ainge's shoes? You're always very dismissive on all the moves we make, but the Sixers and Hinkie could do no wrong. So it'd be nice for you to provide an alternatve, with some actual names.

"Don't expect any big moves"

*Free agency starts*

"This offseason is boring"

*troll complete*

Edit: I think we can ease up on the accusations of him being a Sixers fan though. He's obviously a Celts fan.

I'm not sure about that. He posts a lot, but is he really a fan of the team or any of it's players?

Eddie20... fair point... Yes, I'm a lifelong fan of the Boston Celtics.  No, I'm not that big of a fan of the scrubs on the team right now.  I'm not rushing to the store to buy my Amir Johnson jersey.     I have a right to be disgruntled right now.  This team is irrelevant right now.  This roster isn't even remotely close to contending.   We have whiffed on every attempt to make a significant improvement for two years straight.  It's a tad depressing.   I'm not one for denial.   I wasn't a big fan of the Pierce/Walker treadmill teams either, but there were always some delusional fans who thought we were capable of upsetting the Shaq/Kobe teams if we just managed to sneak into the Finals.  I wasn't one of those people.  That team was mediocre.  This team might not even be mediocre.   We were below .500 last season.  I see a below .500 roster right now.

Okay, but you're absolutely in love with the Sixers.

Eddie... are you going to just keep saying this over and over again?    The frequent accusation makes me think you might be projecting your own emotions here.  Are you a closet 76er fan?  Do you want to tell me how you really feel, buddy?  It's ok... let it all out man...  you have a shoulder to cry on here.

I'm not sure if you're slow or just intentionally ignoring me when I continually respond to your trolling.   It's gotten to the point where people send me PM's asking me of I'm really a 76ers fan.  Seriously?   

To recap:

- I liked Noel well before he was on the 76ers... so did a lot of people here.
- I liked Embiid well before he was on the 76ers... as did Danny Ainge.  He tried to trade up for him.
- I liked Okafor well before he was on the 76ers... as did Danny Ainge.  He tried to trade up for him.

They all ended up on Philly.    All three are better than every chip on our team.  It is what it is, man.    I have repeatedly admitted that I'm jealous of 76er fans.   When news comes out that we tried trading Marcus Smart + several other assets to get the #4 pick, it's depressing knowing Philly had #3.    When news comes out that we tried to give up 6 draft picks to trade up to #9... it's depressing knowing that Philly has three assets that are better than that pick.

I like what they have done there.   It was ballsy.   Most of it is luck... but they have gone all-in on trying to acquire players who have a chance to develop into franchise players.    I wish my own team had 1 cornerstone player.  Philly has 3.   

But to suggest I'm a Philly fan is to suggest I'm a Golden State Warriors fans.   Years ago I was begging for Danny Ainge to trade for Steph Curry... this is when Steph Curry was an injured player averaging 15 points.  I was fully on board with trading Rondo for him.   If i'm a 76ers fan, then I'm also a Golden State fans.   

Years prior, I argued that Chris Paul was a better point guard than Rajon Rondo.   I guess I'm a Clippers fan by your logic?   

Again, I don't believe that being a fan of the Boston Celtics requires me to be delusional.  Amir Johnson is a role player.  We just gave him 12 million dollars.   I'm not particularly excited about it.   If I wanted Amir Johnson on this team, I would have made a post about it... but had I done that, you would have labelled me a Raptors fan. 

Btw Eddie... if you wouldn't trade our entire roster/assets straight up for Philly's roster/assets... you're lying.

Ok, cool. Good job. However, you seemed to have overlooked the rest of my post and failed to answer my questions.

However, the last time the Sixers had a better record than "our team" was during the 06-07 season. So since you know A LOT about both teams what year do you think the Sixers actually break that streak?

Keep in mind that we actually had the second best record in the east after the all-star break last season. This despite having an incredibly ridiculous roster turnover throughout the year. You were also the same guy that forecasted us to win 15 games. You remember, right?

BTW… it's ironic/funny that you call me a troll on a Celtics site for talking positively about the C's and negatively about the Sixers, while you do the exact opposite. Does that make any sense?

[BornReady]

Not sure what DA is doing
Also not sure what this means for olynyk/sully
As we are already resigning jerebko
So one of the has to move

Amid Johnson is an good player
But considering his decline in stats
I would have to think he could have gotten a discount rather than the 12mil price tag
Also I guess that may mean no Tobias Harris and Monroe

[Snakehead]

Also I find it hilarious Jordan being idiotic and not taking our offer validates a lot of people here's idea that we have nothing of value to offer anyone.   He is a great GM after all.

a bunch of teams turned down that offer

Who else?

Miami,NY there was 1 more but can't remember now, i'll have to google it

Miami isn't interested in trading with us anyways for our pick.  Riley wouldn't trade with Ainge.

Not surprised we couldn't trade into the top 4.  That's virtually impossible to do ever.

And I'll be waiting.  Again, this is all being based off so little, it's funny.  Trading up is so hard to do because teams fall in love with their picks (as Ainge said).  Basing anything off Jordan not taking a good deal is just funny to me, especially trades we could make not on draft night to move up.

You asked for examples.  You got some.  And blaming Jordan for not taking the offer is ludicrous.  You just have to flip the script to see how biased you're being.  If Boston really wanted a player there (and they did), they'd have preferred the player over the picks (and they did, which is why they offered up the picks), so there is no anti-Jordan high ground on this.

I got one example besides Jordan (Knicks with a top 5 pick, again impossible) and trading up on draft night is its own animal that's separate from trading at all other times.  So no, but thanks.

Trading has to make sense.  You have to have a team that values the picks more than the players, and a team that values the player more than the picks.  In this case, you had two teams that valued the players.  That doesn't make Jordan a fool, anymore than it makes Ainge a fool.  Though it's certainly valid to question talent evaluation issues, that's not the same as banging on a guy over not taking picks. 

Whenever you've got these kinds of situations, take yourself out of Celtics cheerleader mode, and put yourself into the opponent's position.  It helps to understand and evaluate decisions.


As for the other thing, yes, you were moving the goalposts.  It was obvious you were going to do that when you asked the question in the first place, since the question was such a set up.

They took Frank Kaminsky.  If you really think he is worth 4 firsts then... good luck.

And again, I didn't move the goalposts.  Trading on draft night has nothing to do with value of our assets in other scenarios.  Trading on draft night is totally different.  Hence why the judging of our assets based off 1) Jordan being a poor GM and 2) draft night trade ups, are short sighted and wrong.

If we waited a year, when Kaminsky looks exactly like he will (solid and that's all) and offered 4 firsts for him, he would be traded in a second.  That's the draft night effect.