Tobias Harris started following Marcus Smart on Twitter, C's players follow him

[GreenFaith1819]

I'd love Tobias in Green.

He and KLove would make a GREAT Forward combo.

Let's hope he's not following a guy who's about to be traded, LOL. SO MANY trade rumors/speculations - out there right now.

One thread (David Aldridge speculating), is that Marcus - Noel swap would fill a need for BOS and PHI. So with that being said, I hope Tobias isn't following Marcus to Philadelphia

Why would the sixers trade a big with  embid in limbo. Makes zero sense. They could have drafted Russell instead of trading for Smart. I don't see it. Would I make that trade, yes I would!

It's the Sixers.

They haven't made much sense in quite some time now.

[colincb]

I've looked deeper into the kid and determined my initial stance ("I hate his game") was too strong. I don't like that he isn't a great shooter, and I don't like that he's a tweener and I don't like how eager Orlando seems to be to unload him.

With this is mind. As I sai before. He is a very good target for us.

Orlando doesn't want to unload him. They just don't (and can't) pay him what he will get. Mario will be their SF now.

ORL can afford to pay him and probably should. Hezonja is a swing 2-3 who is more of a jump shooter and gets a very low number of FTs.

[walker834]

Or a deal has been made already.  Gerald Wallace, Avery Bradley and a couple draft picks.

If they did that trade, and could move Turner and KO they could be close to having the cap to sign 2 max free agents

Say Monroe and Millsap

PG: IT                    / Rozier            / Thorton
SG: Smart             / Young             / Hunter
SF: Harris              /Crowder
PF: Millsap            / Sully
 C: Monroe           /Zeller

Thats a very good young roster with tons of picks and cap space to come. Good foundation to attract Durant

That's what I was thinking before I edited it because I wasn't sure. It would give us room to add a guy like Monroe.  I just am not sure why Orlando would take on salary when they don't want to sign harris.  Wallace's contract expires but taking Wallace and Bradley might be a bit much. If they are getting picks maybe. We'd be like the hawks at that point. That would be a good team.

If that can be done by all means.  I'd really like that team.

[hpantazo]

It sounds like the Magic are willing to let him go if he signs a near max or max offer with someone:

"The Magic are reportedly interested in bringing back Harris but not at the price of a max or near-max contract, which is expected to be over $15 million per season. The Orlando franchise and Harris discussed a contract extension in the previous season but the Magic’s offer is reportedly in the $10 million to $11 million per season range."

http://www.ibtimes.com/celtics-pistons-reportedly-interested-orlando-magic-free-agent-forward-tobias-harris-1987039

[crimson_stallion]

It sounds like the Magic are willing to let him go if he signs a near max or max offer with someone:

Because they aren't clinically insane.

I really, really hope that Tobias Harris on a Max (or near max) contract isn't the best we can do this off-season.

He would potentially cost us 4x - 5x more than what we're paying turner, and there is no way in hell he's ever 2x the player.

Harris is without a doubt in my mind the single most overrated free agent on the market this year.  He's one of the worst defenders in the league at the SF spot, and is not even close to being a dominant offensive player - merely an 'above average'  one, and according to stats even that's debatable. 

He doesn't have much in the way of upside either.  He's already played 4 seasons as a pro, and over that time he has never (not once) averaged more than 17.7 Points Per 36 minutes or 36.4% from three (32.1% career average).  His career shooting percentages from midrange are below average, his career free throw rate (29%) is average and his scoring efficiency (0.22 Points Per FGA) is also extremely average.

Even if you look at his advanced stats, his offensive game is not even starting calibre (-0.32 Offensive RPM, 39th out of 87 active small forwards) and his defensive game is is bottom 10 at his position (-2.20 Defensive RPM, 77th out of 87 active Small Forwards) and his overall impact on the game is a significantly in the negative (-2.52 Overall Real Plus Minus, 57th out of 87 active Small Forwards).

There is absolutely nothing that is anything but average about this guy - he's not even a starting caliber talent, let alone a star...and his lack of improvement statistically on a per-36 basis (outside of three point percentage) suggests that his upside is also pretty limited.   

It's debatable if he's would even add wins over the guys we already have:

Evan Turner has an Overall RPM of -1.36 (-1.09 ORPM, -0.27 DRPM)
Jae Crowder has an Overall RPM of -0.44 (+0.62 ORPM, -1.06 DRPM)
Jonas Jerebko has an overall RPM of +2.59 (+0.93 ORPM, +1.66 DRPM)

I've been really pushing for Danny to go after some (ANY!!) big name free agent who might make us even the slightest bit improved as a team, but I have serious question marks as to whether this guy will improve us at all, because every statistical number i can see indicates to me that he's just as likely (if not more likely) to make us worse and that he's the grandest example of a guy who gets inflated numbers playing in a garbage team.

If we have even the slightest chance of making a run at ANY of the big name players out there who have a chance at being available, then pretty much anybody on the list below (at the 3, 4, 5) would give us a far bigger benefit than Harris would:

Draymond Green (+6.85 RPM)
Demarcus Cousins (+6.12 RPM)
Kris Middleton (+6.07 RPM)
Paul Millsap (+5.11 RPM)
Tyson Chandler (+4.59 RPM)
Deandre Jordan (+4.47 RPM)
Jimmy Butler (+4.31 RPM)
LaMarcus Aldridge (+4.05 RPM)
Kevin Love (+2.81 RPM)
Greg Monroe (+2.66 RPM)
Kenneth Faried (+2.17 RPM)
Thaddeus Young (+1.20 RPM)
Joakim Noah (+1.09 RPM)
Joe Johnson (+0.87 RPM)
Hassan Whiteside (+0.70 RPM)
Robin Lopez (+0.52 RPM)
Rudy Gay (+0.40 RPM)
Paul Pierce (+0.32 RPM)
Roy Hibbert (+0.01 RPM))

[manl_lui]

It sounds like the Magic are willing to let him go if he signs a near max or max offer with someone:

"The Magic are reportedly interested in bringing back Harris but not at the price of a max or near-max contract, which is expected to be over $15 million per season. The Orlando franchise and Harris discussed a contract extension in the previous season but the Magic’s offer is reportedly in the $10 million to $11 million per season range."

http://www.ibtimes.com/celtics-pistons-reportedly-interested-orlando-magic-free-agent-forward-tobias-harris-1987039

great offer him 11.5 mil 

[KG Living Legend]

I've looked deeper into the kid and determined my initial stance ("I hate his game") was too strong. I don't like that he isn't a great shooter, and I don't like that he's a tweeter and I don't like how eager Orlando seems to be to unload him.

With this is mind. As I sai before. He is a very good target for us.

I admittedly dont know much about Harris, so all I'm looking at is stats here.  I'd like you to explain exactly why you say he isnt a great shooter.  While his stats certainly dont make him look like an elite shooter, but a SF that shoots 46%, 36% from 3, and 79% from the line isnt bad.

I'd love someone to clarify if he is an actual tweener.  Does he play majority SF or majority PF?  ESPN has him listed as a SF, if thats where he plays the majority of the time, I dont see how you could call him a tweener. Also, judging form previous posts, hes been able to at least attempt to guard Lebron.   A bunch of other sites just have him listed as a forward.  If this is a guy thats going to want and command large minutes at the 4, it really is going to sour my interest in him.  I'm tired of us bring in small guys at the PF position


I can agree with you though, that the fact Orlando has all but come out and said theyre not gonna match any significant offer for him is a little troubling.  Though it's hard to tell if it's because Orlando feels they dont have enough talent yet to turn the corner and dont want to commit money to anyone thats not elite long term, or if they just think hes an overrated stat stuffer.

Harris is a three first and foremost, no doubt about that. Great athlete legit 6'7" without shoes, 37" vertical, it just so happens he has a Carmelo type body and strength, and btw post up is a big part of his game when little guys are on him, he's to quick for the big guys, and to strong down low for little guards and SF's.

[rondohondo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUlSNqQQTck

[Lucky17]

Actually, there is some doubt as to what Harris' current and future position in the NBA is. Zach Lowe has covered the Magic and Harris quite extensively, and reports that he somewhere between a 3 and a 4. Perhaps a 3.25.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/a-rabbit-in-the-hat-what-is-orlando-trying-to-do/

Not really surprised the Magic won't match a big offer, when Hezonja projects as a better shooter and Gordon as a better defender.

[Tr1boy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUlSNqQQTck

poor defense on Lebron. Crowder played better D on Lebron

[Forza Juventus]

I would be very happy if we signed Tobias Harris and it would make me a little less upset with our draft. He is a good and young player that fits a need and is a realistic target. I think we would have to sign and trade though to convince Orlando not to match.

[JBcat]

If we need to work with the Magic in a S&T to fit in the Rondo trade exemption for 12.9 mil and give a couple late first round or second round picks.  While we are at it do the same thing with the Prince trade exemption for Biyombo. 

[Smitty77]

It sounds like the Magic are willing to let him go if he signs a near max or max offer with someone:

Because they aren't clinically insane.

I really, really hope that Tobias Harris on a Max (or near max) contract isn't the best we can do this off-season.

He would potentially cost us 4x - 5x more than what we're paying turner, and there is no way in hell he's ever 2x the player.

Harris is without a doubt in my mind the single most overrated free agent on the market this year.  He's one of the worst defenders in the league at the SF spot, and is not even close to being a dominant offensive player - merely an 'above average'  one, and according to stats even that's debatable. 

He doesn't have much in the way of upside either.  He's already played 4 seasons as a pro, and over that time he has never (not once) averaged more than 17.7 Points Per 36 minutes or 36.4% from three (32.1% career average).  His career shooting percentages from midrange are below average, his career free throw rate (29%) is average and his scoring efficiency (0.22 Points Per FGA) is also extremely average.

Even if you look at his advanced stats, his offensive game is not even starting calibre (-0.32 Offensive RPM, 39th out of 87 active small forwards) and his defensive game is is bottom 10 at his position (-2.20 Defensive RPM, 77th out of 87 active Small Forwards) and his overall impact on the game is a significantly in the negative (-2.52 Overall Real Plus Minus, 57th out of 87 active Small Forwards).

There is absolutely nothing that is anything but average about this guy - he's not even a starting caliber talent, let alone a star...and his lack of improvement statistically on a per-36 basis (outside of three point percentage) suggests that his upside is also pretty limited.   

It's debatable if he's would even add wins over the guys we already have:

Evan Turner has an Overall RPM of -1.36 (-1.09 ORPM, -0.27 DRPM)
Jae Crowder has an Overall RPM of -0.44 (+0.62 ORPM, -1.06 DRPM)
Jonas Jerebko has an overall RPM of +2.59 (+0.93 ORPM, +1.66 DRPM)

I've been really pushing for Danny to go after some (ANY!!) big name free agent who might make us even the slightest bit improved as a team, but I have serious question marks as to whether this guy will improve us at all, because every statistical number i can see indicates to me that he's just as likely (if not more likely) to make us worse and that he's the grandest example of a guy who gets inflated numbers playing in a garbage team.

If we have even the slightest chance of making a run at ANY of the big name players out there who have a chance at being available, then pretty much anybody on the list below (at the 3, 4, 5) would give us a far bigger benefit than Harris would:

Draymond Green (+6.85 RPM)
Demarcus Cousins (+6.12 RPM)
Kris Middleton (+6.07 RPM)
Paul Millsap (+5.11 RPM)
Tyson Chandler (+4.59 RPM)
Deandre Jordan (+4.47 RPM)
Jimmy Butler (+4.31 RPM)
LaMarcus Aldridge (+4.05 RPM)
Kevin Love (+2.81 RPM)
Greg Monroe (+2.66 RPM)
Kenneth Faried (+2.17 RPM)
Thaddeus Young (+1.20 RPM)
Joakim Noah (+1.09 RPM)
Joe Johnson (+0.87 RPM)
Hassan Whiteside (+0.70 RPM)
Robin Lopez (+0.52 RPM)
Rudy Gay (+0.40 RPM)
Paul Pierce (+0.32 RPM)
Roy Hibbert (+0.01 RPM))

The only guys on that list on non-playoff teams are Cousins, Gay, and Farried.  The vast majority play on solid playoff teams.  And Sacramento won 4 more games than Orlando and Denver won 5 more!!

Smitty77

P.S. Did I mention that Harris was 22???:-))))))))))))))))))

[Lucky17]

If we need to work with the Magic in a S&T to fit in the Rondo trade exemption for 12.9 mil and give a couple late first round or second round picks.  While we are at it do the same thing with the Prince trade exemption for Biyombo. 

I think Harris gets an offer north of $13 mil/year on the market. New York, most likely.

[Sketch5]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUlSNqQQTck

poor defense on Lebron. Crowder played better D on Lebron

I wouldn't say poor defense. He stayed infront of him on the most part and made him take off balanced shots, even got a block. But Harris p---ed Lebron off and Lebron went ot hitting those fades and off balanced shots. Not many defenders can stop that.

He did get burned a couple times, but one of them he showed him left and know one stepted up to help. Plus it's Lebron, he's going to burn everyone in the league. Heck he scored 45 on Pierce, was that poor D or just good O.

I'm not saying Harris is a lock down defender, he needs some work, and needs to fight more threw screens. But I LOVE him called Lebron out. Shows the kid has grit and doesn't bow down the the Queen like half the NBA.