Celtics (13-4) at Nets (9-9) Game #18 11/29/19

[NKY fan]

Danny needs to make some trades. We have decent top 5 players but everything else is garbage. Just package some or most  of the smaller contracts plus some of the picks and bring good players ... is it that difficult .. if he doesn’t make any trades we are looking at 3 more underwhelming rookies next year.

Is it that difficult? Yes. One, its early in the season, a lot of players cannot even be traded yet. Two, it is never guaranteed that any trade you proposed will be agreed to by any team. Three, the team is over the cap, salary matching is difficult, esp trading multiple players for one. Three, as it is early in the season, its still hard to grasp what the real holes of the team are. Hayward isnt playing, what may be a weakness now wont appear to be that important when he plays. Four, there's really no deal out there that would move the needle. If you want a gamechanger, packaging these small contracts wont net one.

Please think it through before spouting nonsense like "is it that difficult"

I’m aware of all 3 or 4 issues you pointed and they can be worked around after December 15 or January 15...
Also overreacting by some of us fans is completely normal after a team that is missing their 3 best players outplay the Celtics from start to finish

[NKY fan]

Danny needs to make some trades. We have decent top 5 players but everything else is garbage. Just package some or most  of the smaller contracts plus some of the picks and bring good players ... is it that difficult .. if he doesn’t make any trades we are looking at 3 more underwhelming rookies next year.

Easier said than done.   If we’re not trading Kemba, Tatum, Smart, Brown, or Hayward, then what are we really offering?  What we need to do is to play Robert Williams more.  Sure he is making mistakes but we need him to work that out in games.   We need Kanter to teach him how to work in the low post and Theis to help him work on positioning.  Kanter is too slow to be effective against athletic centers and Theis is too weak to be effective against strong centers.  Against strong athletic centers like Allan and Jordan today, a guy like Theis is useless.  Williams has the strength and athleticism to be everything we need.  Scal talked about how Kanter was giving up lob dunks today vs Brookly because of how he plays off his man but Williams wasn’t giving them up.  Kanter has to play off his man in space because he can’t move fast enough latterly to stay on his man if he makes a quick move, but williams can. Williams can also switch effectively because of his quickness.  I really don’t know if Kanter is really any better than williams on the court.  I get that Kanter has nice post moves, but think williams could score in the post just by turning and dunking over people even from a few feet out he has so much bounce.  As for the draft, and looking at  looking at 3 more underwhelming rookies next year, I think you’re way off the mark there, https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/, has Memphis sitting at 8 which would convey the pick.  Vernon Carey is sitting at 6 which maybe with in the realm of realistic trade up possibilities.  We have our own on Milwalkies pick to move.  Maybe those with one of Edwards or Waters can move up from the 7-9 range to the 5-6 range and a legit shot at Vernon Carey.  Also, currently sitting at 12 is N'Faly Dante who has drawn comparison to Al Horford and would be another solid choice for a big.  Dante is legitimately within the Memphis pick range so no wishing on a start needed there.

Vernon Carey Jr. was UNSTOPPABLE tonight! Duke vs Cal Highlights!
31 points 12 rebs and 4 blocks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0xtWpxwgKM

Class of 2020 Center N'Faly Dante Summer Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV0joRRKkPc

I don’t disagree with you have stated. Nice post actually. I don’t argue that there are nice prospects in the draft the problem is who makes the picks. Also Kanter + Theis + Langford make more than $13M combined that should be good for matching some good players salaries

that much salary gets you Larry Nance Jr. or Mason Plumlee, not exactly  moving the needle.

Isn’t it enough for Tristan Thompson or Valanciunas?

You don't trade away a lottery prospect before he can even play some games for a rental like Thompson or someone who isn't all that much better than Enes Kanter, who you are sending out in the trade, like Valanciunas. That's bad roster management, IMO.

You're basically making a trade to simply make a trade. Neither of those guys are worth trading Langford for. Clearly, Celtic management has a much higher opinion of Langford than some fans, mostly because the fans haven't been able to see Langford play healthy so assume he sucks, which is just not very wise, in my book.

I don’t think Langford will get consistent playing time the next 3-4 years for obvious reasons.
Thompson and valanciunas were starters on championship teams something theis and kanter can only dream about

[LilRip]

After watching the game, my assessment is:

1. Theis is the best PnR defending big we have, but the problem is his worst matchups seem to be active high energy bigs down low (like a Jarrett Allen or DJ). Ironically, I think Kanter would feast on Theis too, if we played against him.
2. Kanter is terrible at defending the PnR and the perimeter. Just slow footed and bad positioning.

CBS was put in a tough spot. Either you let BKN’s bigs beat you by dominating you inside with energy, or you let the guards beat you with the PnR game.

Not to say we couldn’t win the game. We have a much better team overall than BKN. A few of Kemba’s wide open threes go down (Deandre wasn’t contesting any of those shots off the pick) or we complete a couple more catches (lots of fumbles and TO’s down the stretch) and we win the game.

But it is a problem nonetheless. I hope RW3 grows up real quick as he probably has the best chance at being our best big.

[Surferdad]

...We have a much better team overall than BKN. A few of Kemba’s wide open threes go down (Deandre wasn’t contesting any of those shots off the pick) or we complete a couple more catches (lots of fumbles and TO’s down the stretch) and we win the game.
...

Agree.  The team has to look at both games together and learn lessons. (Tatum himself said after this one that they happened to pull out the Bos game but it could have gone the other way.)  A 5-point loss means they only needed a few less turnovers, or a few more made shots, or a bit better perimeter defense, etc. and we'd be talking about how they handled Nets for 2 wins in a row.

I get nothing specific from this game that suggests they need a trade any time soon.  They just need to play better.

[makaveli]

one thing i noticed about jaylen is that he tends to overhelp a lot.

just a easy thing to chaneg but a huge difference it makes

[Chief]

Grant Williams lack of size killed us in the fourth.   He did not rebound well and can't guard a Jarret  Allen type.   

Lack of Effort across the board today.   We played cute and at the end what we gave in the fourth was not enough.

We had 19 TO's and we are not the kind of team that can give those up and win.

CBS loves to put Grant at the 5. Imo, that's bad coaching.

[ChillyWilly]

I don't put a lot of weight in Brad Stevens close early season losses. Brooklyn played their 9 man rotation Brad as usual trotted out 12 guys.

He uses early season to see who he can trust. Watching Celtics in Nov and Dec can be fustrating if every win matters to you.

Or maybe I just drink the Brad kool-aid

[bopna]

Grant Williams lack of size killed us in the fourth.   He did not rebound well and can't guard a Jarret  Allen type.   

Lack of Effort across the board today.   We played cute and at the end what we gave in the fourth was not enough.

We had 19 TO's and we are not the kind of team that can give those up and win.

CBS loves to put Grant at the 5. Imo, that's bad coaching.

I agree..

Grant first of all is just too short and second, he's not sunk a single three to save his life.. Meaning he ain't no threat at all.

Grant and Carsen should be demoted to the F-league and bring back Tremont..

Can't believe this team is not getting anything from its rookies...specially Langford aka J. R.  Giddens but injury prone... Lol.

[greenrunsdeep41]

When we can go 5 out with Kemba, Smart, Jaylen, Jayson, Gordon - We win games like last night because no one can defend that line up.

Imagine that group instead of the one with Grant, I call timeouts because im too afraid to make a mistake, Williams.

[Surferdad]

Grant Williams lack of size killed us in the fourth.   He did not rebound well and can't guard a Jarret  Allen type.   

Lack of Effort across the board today.   We played cute and at the end what we gave in the fourth was not enough.

We had 19 TO's and we are not the kind of team that can give those up and win.

CBS loves to put Grant at the 5. Imo, that's bad coaching.

I agree..

Grant first of all is just too short and second, he's not sunk a single three to save his life.. Meaning he ain't no threat at all.

Grant and Carsen should be demoted to the F-league and bring back Tremont..

Can't believe this team is not getting anything from its rookies...specially Langford aka J. R.  Giddens but injury prone... Lol.

I disagree with both bopna and Chief.  First of all, I guess you guys did not notice how poor Kanter's rotations were, leading to easy dunks by Allen and Jordan.  That's why Brad put in Grant who at least knows how to play defense (even if he's a bit short).  Secondly, no one expects Kanter and RWIII to hit three's, so why ask Grant to do that?

Look, I get it: It was a very frustrating game.  However, any notion that this loss is on Brad (or Ainge for roster construction) is misguided.  They lost because the players did not put out the required effort and were not good enough to hit shots.  They admitted as much it themselves in post-game interviews.

[nickagneta]

Grant Williams lack of size killed us in the fourth.   He did not rebound well and can't guard a Jarret  Allen type.   

Lack of Effort across the board today.   We played cute and at the end what we gave in the fourth was not enough.

We had 19 TO's and we are not the kind of team that can give those up and win.

CBS loves to put Grant at the 5. Imo, that's bad coaching.

I agree..

Grant first of all is just too short and second, he's not sunk a single three to save his life.. Meaning he ain't no threat at all.

Grant and Carsen should be demoted to the F-league and bring back Tremont..

Can't believe this team is not getting anything from its rookies...specially Langford aka J. R.  Giddens but injury prone... Lol.

I disagree with both bopna and Chief.  First of all, I guess you guys did not notice how poor Kanter's rotations were.  That's why Brad put in Grant who at least know how to play defense (even if he's a bit short).  Secondly, no one expects Kanter and RWIII to hit three's, so why ask Grant to do that?

Look, I get it: It was a very frustrating game.  However, any notion that this loss is on Brad (or Ainge for roster construction) is misguided.  They lost because the players did not put out the required effort and were not good enough to hit shots.  They admitted as much it themselves in post-game interviews.

It's all said and good that the players took responsibility for their lack of effort and quality play, but Stevens did not put this team into the best position to win or a position to maximize the abilities of the players either.

Stevens inexplicably had Brown sitting in the corner all day and ran almost no offense for or through him. His touches and time of possession for this game were down close to 30% on his season average and down even more than that when compared to recent games.

Then there is the complete non use of Theis in the second half. He is their best overall center option. Maybe he was hurting, who knows? Stevens did say he was available but obviously Theis was benched.

And then there was the using of Semi, Williams, Williams, Edwards, Kanter and a massively struggling of late and in this game, Smart, to create offense over Brown all game and Kemba in the first half. Brown and Walker are two of your best and most efficient scorers and neither were used as such for an entire half.

Yeah, the players had a bad game but so did the coach. He has as much blame for this game, if not moreso, as the players.