Heat (0-1) at Celtics (1-0) Round 1 Game #2 4/24/24

[SparzWizard]

Scooby nailed it 1000%. And don't forget about that 2020 playoff run. We just swept the 76ers and got off a grueling 7-game series with the Raptors. It just felt like the C's mailed it in against (yours truly) the 5-seeded Miami Heat.

These guys need to put on their big boy pants. All of these are mental (and inept coaching). They letting the Heat bully them even without Butler and Rozier. You can't just show up to the TD Garden and say "ahh we're just gonna play it easy tonight, we'll get 'em in Miami". These are the playoffs and you close out games as best as you can. The talent gap between these two teams are huge; there should be no excuses losing at home (where you've been so dominant the entire season) to this depleted team.

[mr. dee]

so basically a gutless soft team until they decide to get mad throw some chairs in the locker room and take charge.

I actually believe these players deserves at least a smack in the head.

[ScoobyDoo]

From Boston Garden Leprechaun:

"So basically a gutless soft team until they decide to get mad throw some chairs in the locker room and take charge".

No, I'm just saying the following:

Don't be the one getting punched, do the punching. Be the basketball aggressor, stop getting pushed around.

Stop choking every meaningful game (Cavs game 7, Warriors game 4. They let Golden State take our hearts out after that game 4 loss - we completely folded in games five and six - never showed up, because Tatum and Brown are basketball cowards. Hate to say it, but it's true and they should be being told that by the coach and the management. It's the psychological growth that's most required by them if we ever watn to win anything.

Don't lose game 2 against a depleted 8th seeded Miami team without Jimmy Butler. Just don't. You're up one game, you absolutely should maul them in game 2, but no, we come out like it's a preseason game.

I'm saying if Draymond Green is harassing you all the way to your own bench that should turn into an extremely heated exchange on the baseline. Tatum just kept walking with Draymond chirping in his ear. Why, because in basketball terms Draymond is a man and Tatum, for all his experience is still a basketball baby. It's the psychological part of the game that is killing Tatum and brown's chances of winning anything - it's not their talent.

I'm saying you don't just get up and walk down to take free throws when Caleb Martin takes you out in mid air. That "needs" to be, that "has' to become a very, very, very heated exchange with him about two inches from his nose. Take a technical  - make it a point to get a technical.

I'm saying, up one game in the first round of the NBA finals, you should come out incredibly p---ed off like a bear with a sore head and stomp all over the other team. But, we never, ever do - we come out like it doesn't matter - just another game, jack up some threes, see what happens - onto the next. That is not a championship mentality.

Have some toughness for god's sake - physically and mentally.

Show some grit. Stop with the terrible body language every time a play doesn't go your way - that is weakness, that is Charmin softness - massive softness - and that' the problem. No grind for these guys.

Show some ferocity - some energy.

You don't win championships - you have take it. Again I have very little belief that Tatum and Brown really understand this or can consistently push themselves to grind to a championship. None whatsoever.       

[scaryjerry]

so basically a gutless soft team until they decide to get mad throw some chairs in the locker room and take charge.

His post was 1000% accurate and the fans that keep defending them or making excuses simply don’t get it just like it seems they don’t.
They NEED to win the title this year, anything less is completely unacceptable and is going to start really tainting legacies/player trajectory.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

From Boston Garden Leprechaun:

"So basically a gutless soft team until they decide to get mad throw some chairs in the locker room and take charge".

No, I'm just saying the following:

Don't be the one getting punched, do the punching. Be the basketball aggressor, stop getting pushed around.

Stop choking every meaningful game (Cavs game 7, Warriors game 4. They let Golden State take our hearts out after that game 4 loss - we completely folded in games five and six - never showed up, because Tatum and Brown are basketball cowards. Hate to say it, but it's true and they should be being told that by the coach and the management. It's the psychological growth that's most required by them if we ever watn to win anything.

Don't lose game 2 against a depleted 8th seeded Miami team without Jimmy Butler. Just don't. You're up one game, you absolutely should maul them in game 2, but no, we come out like it's a preseason game.

I'm saying if Draymond Green is harassing you all the way to your own bench that should turn into an extremely heated exchange on the baseline. Tatum just kept walking with Draymond chirping in his ear. Why, because in basketball terms Draymond is a man and Tatum, for all his experience is still a basketball baby. It's the psychological part of the game that is killing Tatum and brown's chances of winning anything - it's not their talent.

I'm saying you don't just get up and walk down to take free throws when Caleb Martin takes you out in mid air. That "needs" to be, that "has' to become a very, very, very heated exchange with him about two inches from his nose. Take a technical  - make it a point to get a technical.

I'm saying, up one game in the first round of the NBA finals, you should come out incredibly p---ed off like a bear with a sore head and stomp all over the other team. But, we never, ever do - we come out like it doesn't matter - just another game, jack up some threes, see what happens - onto the next. That is not a championship mentality.

Have some toughness for god's sake - physically and mentally.

Show some grit. Stop with the terrible body language every time a play doesn't go your way - that is weakness, that is Charmin softness - massive softness - and that' the problem. No grind for these guys.

Show some ferocity - some energy.

You don't win championships - you have take it. Again I have very little belief that Tatum and Brown really understand this or can consistently push themselves to grind to a championship. None whatsoever.       

ugh. you just reminded we we shoulda been up 3-1 in the finals then we folded like  a cheap tent once we blew game 4. infuriating. all these players need to be called out by each other, the media. ownership. brad, etc. joe schmoe won't do it.

we really could use KG and THE TRUTH walking into that locker room and chewing these clowns out.

[celticinorlando]

Unfortunately, this is just who this team is. They don't have that killer instinct to break a team when you can. Atlanta, Philly, Miami, Miami again....they simply cannot be consistent enough to do this. The only time I think I have seen this core group do this was vs Brooklyn the year they swept them.

It is frustrating. It is predictable. It is redundant. It is exhausting.

It is a reflection of a coach that is somewhat not qualified to be coaching this team. It is a reflection of 2 "stars" that complain, whine and let the refs take them out of their games. Tatum is a soft player mentally. He wants to be Kobe but he is no killer like Kobe. Still feel like there is no strong leadership. I mean Al was the one trying to wake this team up in Game 2.

I expected Miami to get a game in the series. Spo is too good a coach. But I did not expect it would be game 2...in Boston. The playoff losses at home are just maddening. It has cost them real chances to win multiple titles.

We will have to wait and see what happens in Game 3. I will not be surprised if Miami wins. I will not be surprised if Boston wins big. But this team is exhausting. I so want to enjoy the journey. But the journey looks like many we have seen before and I am afraid the destination will be the same in the end.

It would be a real shame for this team to cost themselves another title because they cannot get out of their own way like times before. I was hopeful they have learned their lessons of playing with their food but it looks like they have not. Is there time to change that? Yes. But I am really apprehensive that we are going to see a team in Game 3 that struggles.

[ScoobyDoo]

Yeah, agreed with both posts Leprechaun and Orlando:

1. One things I thought Ime did was bring more grit and toughness out of them but he again could only take them so far - at the end of the day he can't make the plays on the floor, Brown and Tatum have to make the plays. It's like Russell told KG when KG asked him if he thought he could win a title in Boston. Russell said, "Yes you can, but you will need to put the entire team on your shoulder and take them there, and that includes Pierce, Allen, Rondo and Perkins, everyone".

Russell said this because he knows every great team has an indomitable force, the emotional and driving engine of of the team, the line in the sand guy, the ferocious no backing down guy. As tough as Pierce, perk and Rondo were, it was still KG that had to be the guy - it's the foxhole guy, the guy in the trenches.

Whos is that on our team? It's no one. Tatum and Brown are both too nice - and that's a compliment, they are both very impressive young guys, very, very solid people by all accounts. However, to win championships, basketball requires the following engine guys:

Bird
Magic (don['t let the smile fool you...)
Jordan
Duncan, and also Ginobli and Parker - all very nasty in their own relentless ways
Curry (again, don't let the smile fool you...) and definitely Draymond and Thompson in the Duncan, Ginobli, Parker model - all relentless.
Shaq/Kobe
Isaiah Thomas / Rodman / Dumars - very, very tough competitors
Joker and yes, Murray (Murray can be inconsistent, but he carries a dagger in his sleeve and he wants to use it when it matters...
Jimmy Butler has it
Freak is relentless
Kawhai Leonard
Lebron
Dwayne Wade

Does anyone think Tatum and brown play with the type of relentless attack mode focus of any of the above listed players?

If they find that they're capable of 4-5 championships over the next 8-10 years - but will they? When do they get p---ed off with losing - how many lesson losses, lost titles does it take until the flip switches...?

 

[SparzWizard]

If you're not p---ed after a playoff loss, then you certainly have issues (about the players). Who is happy and smiling after a playoff loss? Nobody should be happy after an L. Nowadays, I see these losing teams just walking to the other team and exchanging hugs and jerseys or getting up not doing anything to their face after some guy bullied you to the floor. At times I miss Grant Williams for these mental exchanges. This team needs a Dillon Brooks or Ron Artest...somebody who isn't afraid to get physical on opposing teams or throw elbows around.

[Who]

If you're not p---ed after a playoff loss, then you certainly have issues (about the players). Who is happy and smiling after a playoff loss? Nobody should be happy after an L. Nowadays, I see these losing teams just walking to the other team and exchanging hugs and jerseys or getting up not doing anything to their face after some guy bullied you to the floor. At times I miss Grant Williams for these mental exchanges. This team needs a Dillon Brooks or Ron Artest...somebody who isn't afraid to get physical on opposing teams or throw elbows around.

I think some of it here in Boston is the emphasis on the process instead of the moment.

The process deemphazises short term results and instead asks you to trust the long term plan and that over a long period of time that plan will be successful. Like the other night with giving MIA's bad shooters open 3s and daring them to beat you. Most of the time this will work but once in a while it will backfire. Trust the process. Do not freak out when it is not working. Trust the plan.

Stay steady. Do not get too high. Do not get too low. Trust the plans. Do not live in the moment. Trust the long term vision for the team.

This has become very popular in many teams and many sports. There is a lot to like about this approach but sometimes it goes to far an extreme. Too much emphasis on process and not enough on the moment. Ultimately sports is about the moment. Especially basketball. Basketball is all about individual situations (matchups, lineups, sets).

[smokeablount]

Well s***, if the other team shoots 54% from three on high volume then you're gonna lose.  That just is what it is.

Onto the next one.

Most optimistic take. Thanks. Yeah, 23-43 is difficult to defeat, especially when you are shooting a pedestrian 12-32.   33 point differential.  The downside of the take is -- they had way too many good looks.

This is the most important point, though. It wasn't like they were hitting super contested, difficult threes. We were gift wrapping them wide open threes of the PnR because of a poor defensive gameplan and lack of adjustments.

You can't claim a fluke when you're giving them wide open threes. They're still professional basketball players on a team that is known for three point shooting.

They're not going to shoot that well from 3 in three more games.  If they had gone 19-43, they would have shot an excellent 44% but lost the game.

“Miami now has four playoff games in the past two seasons with 50% shooting from three...against Boston. No other team has more than one...against anyone”

That’s what we said last time… and the time before… and…

[smokeablount]

Well s***, if the other team shoots 54% from three on high volume then you're gonna lose.  That just is what it is.

Onto the next one.

Most optimistic take. Thanks. Yeah, 23-43 is difficult to defeat, especially when you are shooting a pedestrian 12-32.   33 point differential.  The downside of the take is -- they had way too many good looks.

This is the most important point, though. It wasn't like they were hitting super contested, difficult threes. We were gift wrapping them wide open threes of the PnR because of a poor defensive gameplan and lack of adjustments.

You can't claim a fluke when you're giving them wide open threes. They're still professional basketball players on a team that is known for three point shooting.

They're not going to shoot that well from 3 in three more games.  If they had gone 19-43, they would have shot an excellent 44% but lost the game.

Very unlikely, but the difference is Spo will continue to adjust to get the most out of his inferior roster. The same simply cannot be said about Joe, who demonstrated complete futility when it came to making any kind of adjustment tonight.

In a 7-game series, a significant talent advantage almost always wins out regardless of coaching.  The Celts shot well from 3 and they took the ball to the basket a bunch.  Besides the Heat's unsustainable shooting, Porzingis had a really bad night.  Now Jaylen's freethrow shooting might cost us in a close game.  Spo might just try a hack-a-Shaw on him.

Except in this specific matchup of Tatum Heat vs Butler Celtics which is what is relevant here, where the less talented team wins a majority of the time (2020, 2023, just not 2022).

I’m not panicked. If they can’t win this series they were never doing anything. Let’s see how game 3 goes. But ultimately, I don’t at this stage of life have the time to invest in franchises where I feel I can see the mistakes holding us back, but key people in charge of the team can’t/won’t.

[Who]

I’m not panicked. If they can’t win this series they were never doing anything. Let’s see how game 3 goes.

Losing a game is a long way from losing a series.

[smokeablount]

I’m not panicked. If they can’t win this series they were never doing anything. Let’s see how game 3 goes.

Losing a game is a long way from losing a series.

Agreed. But the Heat can beat us in this series. They’ve proven it in years past. Still, I expect to win in 5-6 and don’t think it has to be a bad thing. But the whole “they won’t shoot like this again” routine is patently false at this point except perhaps in classic broken clock style.

[tenn_smoothie]

What bothers me as much as anything is the lack of push-back when there is a confrontation on the court.

Scooby mentioned a couple,
Draymond Green during finals taunting Tatum with no response.
Draymond Green during finals walking into the middle of our huddle during a timeout.
"Oh well, that's just Dray, he always like that, he cool." Of course, Cedric Maxwell was the only Celtic to come back on Green.
Maybe the worst Celtic villain since John Y. Brown, Kyrie Irving, walks around the Boston Garden blowing incense to "purify" the place.
Then after the game and a win over the Celts, Irving makes a special trip back out to the center circle to step on our hallowed logo, designed by Red's brother, no less to show his disdain for the franchise he damaged.
Caleb Martin makes what should have been called a flagrant, dirty foul knocking Tatum down hard and somehow Jayson thinks acting cool about it is the best way to handle it. "They'll know better next time, I'll really be non-chalant then. I might even just run back on defense to show how little I care".
All three of these opponents should have been knocked on their ass at some point by a Celtics player.

Can you imagine .......... how Garnett, Posey, Bird, Max, DJ, Cowens, Silas, Russell, Satch, Heinhson would have responded ?

This current Celtics team is so frustrating and demoralizing to be a fan for sometimes, a lot of times actually.
Probably the most talented team in the league, but very lean on the competitive side and mentally dumb basketball players.
Add in a clearly incompetent coach and you have the ingredients for a disaster. If the Celts fail to win the title again this year, Brad is going to have to make some changes ....... or maybe it's ownership that needs to step in and make the changes.

[SparzWizard]

What bothers me as much as anything is the lack of push-back when there is a confrontation on the court.

Scooby mentioned a couple,
Draymond Green during finals taunting Tatum with no response.
Draymond Green during finals walking into the middle of our huddle during a timeout.
"Oh well, that's just Dray, he always like that, he cool." Of course, Cedric Maxwell was the only Celtic to come back on Green.
Maybe the worst Celtic villain since John Y. Brown, Kyrie Irving, walks around the Boston Garden blowing incense to "purify" the place.
Then after the game and a win over the Celts, Irving makes a special trip back out to the center circle to step on our hallowed logo, designed by Red's brother, no less to show his disdain for the franchise he damaged.
Caleb Martin makes what should have been called a flagrant, dirty foul knocking Tatum down hard and somehow Jayson thinks acting cool about it is the best way to handle it. "They'll know better next time, I'll really be non-chalant then. I might even just run back on defense to show how little I care".
All three of these opponents should have been knocked on their ass at some point by a Celtics player.

Can you imagine .......... how Garnett, Posey, Bird, Max, DJ, Cowens, Silas, Russell, Satch, Heinhson would have responded ?

Garnett would have whooped the other team and take 'em to the dumpster fire. Remember him nailing Zaza Pachulia during that Hawks/Celtics 2008 playoff series? Set that hard pick and yanked Zaza out. Those two kept going at each other in that series.

The Jays, the Kristaps, the Holidays, the Whites they all missing that Celtic culture. They need a little franchise history lesson.