Author Topic: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors  (Read 23106 times)

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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #90 on: April 09, 2018, 06:20:11 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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So you would give up Tatum in a trade for Leonard?

Here was the rumor/speculation that I heard:
Celtics get: Leonard. Spurs get: forward Marcus Morris, guard Terry Rozier, forward Jayson Tatum, forward Daniel Theis, 2019 top-eight protected first-round pick (from Boston, via Memphis). So, is that too steep of a price to pay for one of the NBA’s best players? Perhaps, and Leonard is just one year away from free agency. But such a deal would give Boston a starting lineup of Leonard, Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Jaylen Brown and Al Horford. If you ask us, that squad could rival — and even surpass — the Golden State Warriors’ star-studded unit.

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/04/should-celtics-offer-this-hypothetical-trade-for-spurs-kawhi-leonard/

4 players and a Memphis protected pick for Leonard?  Would you really do this trade?

As much as I love Brown, I'd swap Tatum with Brown in this scenario, and to make salaries work you'd probably have to add Yabusele to the deal. (Or Yabusele + Nader/Ojeyele INSTEAD of Theis)

Still a very risky trade, and not sure I'd do it, but that's about the ballpark in terms of a "reasonable" trade offer.

If another team like Sixers or Lakers can or wants to outbid that offer for Leonard, so be it.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #91 on: April 09, 2018, 06:53:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

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So you would give up Tatum in a trade for Leonard?

Here was the rumor/speculation that I heard:
Celtics get: Leonard. Spurs get: forward Marcus Morris, guard Terry Rozier, forward Jayson Tatum, forward Daniel Theis, 2019 top-eight protected first-round pick (from Boston, via Memphis). So, is that too steep of a price to pay for one of the NBA’s best players? Perhaps, and Leonard is just one year away from free agency. But such a deal would give Boston a starting lineup of Leonard, Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Jaylen Brown and Al Horford. If you ask us, that squad could rival — and even surpass — the Golden State Warriors’ star-studded unit.

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/04/should-celtics-offer-this-hypothetical-trade-for-spurs-kawhi-leonard/

4 players and a Memphis protected pick for Leonard?  Would you really do this trade?
That trade isn't able to happen. We would need to add more salary. Probably need to send Yabu too.

So

Tatum, Rozier, Morris, Theis and Yabusele plus a pick or picks

For

Kawhi.

No way. Too much.If I could trade just Tatum and picks, I woukd do it but given we would need to shred the roster and rotation to get him, I would pass.
so you wouldn't want to give up Tatum and the 3rd PG, the 4th swing, the 4th big man, and a guy who spent most of the year in the GLeague for Leonard.  That seems a bit strange to me.

So post-trade, you'd have a starting 5 of Irving, Hayward, Leonard, Horford, Baynes.  The team would have Smart, Brown, and Monroe as the first 3 off the bench.  It would still have its own 2018 1st, Larkin, Semi, Nader, and Bird/Allen, plus whatever free agents could be added for the deeper bench.

I just don't get why all of the deep bench players would somehow be a deal breaker.  I like Tatum, but if Tatum is even 90% the player Leonard is, he would be a huge homerun and the odds of that happening are small.  Leonard also fits the Irving/Hayward/Horford timeline so much better, that the team has to make that trade.
Kinda making some large assumptions on returning players, aren't you? You have Baynes, Monroe and Smart all returning. That's a HUGE assumption and pretty hard to do given what the Cs have to offer. It could be that none of the three return and you have Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Kawhi, Horford and nothing but scrubs. Where's the rebounding? Where is the depth? With Smart, Monroe and Baynes not returning you are actually trading your 6th, 7th, 8th and possibly 11th players in your rotation going out not the 3rd PG, the 4th swing, the 4th big man, and a guy who spent most of the year in the GLeague.
Monroe is the only questionable one on my mind.  Smart is restricted so Boston can match any offer and I don't see Haynes as having a market that would prove him out of Boston, though Monroe might he might not also.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #92 on: April 09, 2018, 07:12:28 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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So you would give up Tatum in a trade for Leonard?

Here was the rumor/speculation that I heard:
Celtics get: Leonard. Spurs get: forward Marcus Morris, guard Terry Rozier, forward Jayson Tatum, forward Daniel Theis, 2019 top-eight protected first-round pick (from Boston, via Memphis). So, is that too steep of a price to pay for one of the NBA’s best players? Perhaps, and Leonard is just one year away from free agency. But such a deal would give Boston a starting lineup of Leonard, Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Jaylen Brown and Al Horford. If you ask us, that squad could rival — and even surpass — the Golden State Warriors’ star-studded unit.

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/04/should-celtics-offer-this-hypothetical-trade-for-spurs-kawhi-leonard/

4 players and a Memphis protected pick for Leonard?  Would you really do this trade?
That trade isn't able to happen. We would need to add more salary. Probably need to send Yabu too.

So

Tatum, Rozier, Morris, Theis and Yabusele plus a pick or picks

For

Kawhi.

No way. Too much.If I could trade just Tatum and picks, I woukd do it but given we would need to shred the roster and rotation to get him, I would pass.
so you wouldn't want to give up Tatum and the 3rd PG, the 4th swing, the 4th big man, and a guy who spent most of the year in the GLeague for Leonard.  That seems a bit strange to me.

So post-trade, you'd have a starting 5 of Irving, Hayward, Leonard, Horford, Baynes.  The team would have Smart, Brown, and Monroe as the first 3 off the bench.  It would still have its own 2018 1st, Larkin, Semi, Nader, and Bird/Allen, plus whatever free agents could be added for the deeper bench.

I just don't get why all of the deep bench players would somehow be a deal breaker.  I like Tatum, but if Tatum is even 90% the player Leonard is, he would be a huge homerun and the odds of that happening are small.  Leonard also fits the Irving/Hayward/Horford timeline so much better, that the team has to make that trade.
Kinda making some large assumptions on returning players, aren't you? You have Baynes, Monroe and Smart all returning. That's a HUGE assumption and pretty hard to do given what the Cs have to offer. It could be that none of the three return and you have Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Kawhi, Horford and nothing but scrubs. Where's the rebounding? Where is the depth? With Smart, Monroe and Baynes not returning you are actually trading your 6th, 7th, 8th and possibly 11th players in your rotation going out not the 3rd PG, the 4th swing, the 4th big man, and a guy who spent most of the year in the GLeague.
Monroe is the only questionable one on my mind.  Smart is restricted so Boston can match any offer and I don't see Haynes as having a market that would prove him out of Boston, though Monroe might he might not also.

I don't think we can keep both Baynes and Monroe unfortunately, as much as I'd love to. I'm assuming one comes back though at least, and along with Theis that is still a pretty good front court (assuming Theis does as well as he did this year). Maybe they sign a cheap big w/vet. minimum OR draft one.

As for Smart, I think if Rozier gets dealt in the trade, they do everything they can to keep Smart, as you say. Truthfully, I don't see Smart's market being more than 10M/Year (if it's that high to begin with), and I'd gladly keep Smart at 4/40M with Bird Rights. Some projections say we could even keep him at 4/32M, but I'd think somewhere around 4/40M to 4/48M is the ballpark. Unless there's a team out there I don't know that loves Smart a ton and is willing to throw 15M/Year at him.

Also, I don't know if they'll be capped out for good or not, but maybe they find a way to keep Larkin on the cheap again for good depth? Otherwise, sign Jabari Bird to an NBA contract.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2018, 10:53:17 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Also, if you make the trade dealing away Tatum, how do you plan on paying Kyrie, Leonard, Hayward, and Horford?

Both Kyrie and Leonard's deals will be up in the same year right?  Do we lose Horford then.  Can we pay KI and KL both the super max?

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2018, 06:25:29 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Also, if you make the trade dealing away Tatum, how do you plan on paying Kyrie, Leonard, Hayward, and Horford?

Both Kyrie and Leonard's deals will be up in the same year right?  Do we lose Horford then.  Can we pay KI and KL both the super max?
neither is eligible for supermax in that scenarii as they were both traded.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2018, 07:12:31 AM »

Online Roy H.

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There’s a 26 year old two-time DPOY / 1st team All-NBAer who averages 26/6 while flirting with 50/40/90 on the market. Let that sink in.


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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2018, 07:28:30 AM »

Offline Eja117

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There’s a 26 year old two-time DPOY / 1st team All-NBAer who averages 26/6 while flirting with 50/40/90 on the market. Let that sink in.
We should consider why he's on the market.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2018, 07:36:31 AM »

Online Roy H.

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There’s a 26 year old two-time DPOY / 1st team All-NBAer who averages 26/6 while flirting with 50/40/90 on the market. Let that sink in.
We should consider why he's on the market.

Kyrie was on the market.

KG was on the market.


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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #98 on: April 10, 2018, 07:53:23 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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There’s a 26 year old two-time DPOY / 1st team All-NBAer who averages 26/6 while flirting with 50/40/90 on the market. Let that sink in.
Instead of giving up a potential young, cost controlled, superstar and the bench for Kawhi, does it make sense to just trade Hayward for him? Maybe Hayward and Rozier and pick(s) for Kawhi and Mills

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #99 on: April 10, 2018, 07:59:14 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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There’s a 26 year old two-time DPOY / 1st team All-NBAer who averages 26/6 while flirting with 50/40/90 on the market. Let that sink in.
We should consider why he's on the market.

Kyrie was on the market.

KG was on the market.
The reasons Kyrie and KG were on the market were well-known and understandable.  Kawhi is up for a designated veteran extension from one of the most well run and successful organizations.  If he were to force a trade at the cost of a lot of money, I think that means he's got a destination in mind which most likely isn't Boston. 

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #100 on: April 10, 2018, 07:59:58 AM »

Offline gouki88

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There’s a 26 year old two-time DPOY / 1st team All-NBAer who averages 26/6 while flirting with 50/40/90 on the market. Let that sink in.
Instead of giving up a potential young, cost controlled, superstar and the bench for Kawhi, does it make sense to just trade Hayward for him? Maybe Hayward and Rozier and pick(s) for Kawhi and Mills
Would be pretty hard for any future FA to commit to us long-term if we trade Hayward.

Also, I'd much rather run with a super top heavy big 3 of Kawhi/Kyrie/GH with one of Tatum/Brown (not sure which young guy you're referring to) and Al, than Kawhi and Kyrie with two young guns and Al, but with a much more solid bench.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #101 on: April 10, 2018, 08:03:02 AM »

Offline JBcat

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The problem with me is Tatum is not Al Jefferson or even maybe IT the centerpieces of the KG and Irving trades.

Tatum has a strong chance of being a very long time all star starting soon at only 20 now.  Jefferson was a flawed player, and I never really truly thought of him being an star every year.  Maybe once or twice but he never really got close to that.  Yes, IT was getting MVP votes his last year with us, but he had that hip injury going into the last year of his contract pushing age 30. There was the Nets pick too, but I don’t think most of us thought it would be a top 5 pick.

Plus Leonard just sat out the entire year which is a little worrisome.  I would not be shocked if Tatum is on par with Leonard within 3 years when Leonard hits age 30.  It’s a tough call for me, but I’m leaning towards keeping Tatum.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #102 on: April 10, 2018, 08:04:10 AM »

Offline Eja117

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There’s a 26 year old two-time DPOY / 1st team All-NBAer who averages 26/6 while flirting with 50/40/90 on the market. Let that sink in.
We should consider why he's on the market.

Kyrie was on the market.

KG was on the market.
I just don't think of them as diva quitters. I also do think of Tatum as an obvious future All NBA guy. And not distant future either. 

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #103 on: April 10, 2018, 08:10:02 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Kyrie is skipping the playoffs for what basically amounts to soreness. It’s an extremely reasonable decision, too.

I thought Kyrie was on schedule to return, but then came down with a bacterial infection and removing the screws became a very necessary decision. Was there a report that said the infection wasn't serious and he could have put off the removal of the screws?

I am not trying to put you on the spot - I just had a different understanding of what happened.

He could have put off the first surgery. He could have taken antibiotics to put off the second surgery. In each case, it was simply an issue of pain tolerance, rather than structural stability.  He didn’t get an infection due to the first surgery; it was pre-existing and wasn’t causing systemic issues. It was causing local site pain.

That’s what’s going on with Kawhi: pain that he doesn’t want to play through. Kevin McHale played through pain. So did IT. Can we blame players who don’t want to risk their future?

Of course.  Is Kawhi not being paid by the Spurs right now to play for them?  If you were a Spurs fan, you would be p---ed that he is basically ruining their chance of competing for the finals by not 'risking his future.'  He is punting on their season and it is really weird, to say the least.

And I think you give way to much credit to IT's situation last year.  He wanted badly to be the man for a playoff contender.  So he was going to play hurt, and no one was going to stop him, until he could barely run on the court.  I do not think many Cs fans would have held it against IT if he opted for labrum surgery during the season last year (at least then there is some more confidence he could return to a healthy state).

I also do not think Kyrie's situation is comparable.  It is not just about pain tolerance.  They tried an initial surgery to get him ready for the playoffs, to possibly reduce some of the pain.  From all reports thus far that seemed to work.  Unfortunately they found the possibility of a bone infection and so the screw procedure had to occur.  That second procedure was not done just because 'Kyrie cannot tolerate pain.'


Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #104 on: April 10, 2018, 09:10:15 AM »

Online Roy H.

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There’s a 26 year old two-time DPOY / 1st team All-NBAer who averages 26/6 while flirting with 50/40/90 on the market. Let that sink in.
Instead of giving up a potential young, cost controlled, superstar and the bench for Kawhi, does it make sense to just trade Hayward for him? Maybe Hayward and Rozier and pick(s) for Kawhi and Mills

Not to me. Hayward is better than Tatum, and a Kyrie / Brown / Hayward / Kawhi / Horford team is good enough to win multiple titles.

I’d consider dealing Kyrie, but it’s not my first preference. The thinking would be that Rozier is an excellent defender, making our lineup lethal defensively while still having a ton of offensive pop. 

Horford
Kawhi / Morris
Hayward / Tatum
Brown
Rozier / Smart





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