Author Topic: Grant Williams(merged threads)  (Read 36777 times)

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Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #135 on: January 26, 2020, 12:01:57 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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I think Grant Williams will be playing in the NBA for a very long time.

But I don't think using GWill as a Center is a good idea.

Celts will not win a lot of playoff games if majority of his minutes are at Center.

You don't really give up do you? Yet another thread you are steering to talk about your propaganda.
Slow start or not the shooting percentage is still affected by the slow start.

But you implied that he is STILL shooting poorly by using his season stats. He isn't anymore, given how he has shot recently. In the same way that at march last year, Marcus Morris isn't shooting decently anymore despite his stats being above average. It was skewed by his hot start last season.

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #136 on: January 26, 2020, 12:23:01 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #137 on: January 26, 2020, 12:58:27 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
Yeah, 100% agree. He’s one of those guys that I just want to be around forever. He seems to be strong of body and mind.

If one of Romeo or Carsen can prove to be a serviceable guy I think 2019 will be quite a hit. I think Tremont will be a really solid guy too, might only be a career backup but I like what he does.
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #138 on: January 26, 2020, 10:47:27 AM »

Offline bopna

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
Yeah, 100% agree. He’s one of those guys that I just want to be around forever. He seems to be strong of body and mind.

If one of Romeo or Carsen can prove to be a serviceable guy I think 2019 will be quite a hit. I think Tremont will be a really solid guy too, might only be a career backup but I like what he does.

Romeo is a bust... I will not be posting on Celticsblog anymore if he is still with the team after his rookie contract.

He will take the Terry Rozier route.. That if ever he does make a good account of himself, it will be with another team... So Danny better trade him for Bertans or something.

I see a better future for Tacko tbh.

The only rookie that will stay with these draftees will be Grant but that's because he is a role player.

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #139 on: January 26, 2020, 11:27:42 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
Yeah, 100% agree. He’s one of those guys that I just want to be around forever. He seems to be strong of body and mind.

If one of Romeo or Carsen can prove to be a serviceable guy I think 2019 will be quite a hit. I think Tremont will be a really solid guy too, might only be a career backup but I like what he does.

Romeo is a bust... I will not be posting on Celticsblog anymore if he is still with the team after his rookie contract.

He will take the Terry Rozier route.. That if ever he does make a good account of himself, it will be with another team... So Danny better trade him for Bertans or something.

I see a better future for Tacko tbh.

The only rookie that will stay with these draftees will be Grant but that's because he is a role player.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. That's assuming this isn't just hyperbole and bluster, which it probably is.
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SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf / Tom Chambers / Buck Williams
C: Ben Wallace / Andrew Bynum

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #140 on: January 26, 2020, 11:49:50 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Uh, Durant wasn't a passer at Tatum's age either. The difference between those two players isn't their passing. How many more assists do you think Durant was averaging in his third year?

The difference is Durant was getting to the line 6 more times and also just a superior shooter.
I mean how many third year players were averaging 29.55 points per 75 possession at +6.4% TS and -1.6 TOV%? Durant is an exception for a prospect with MVP potential lol, most young players with MVP potential are good at scoring and passing but Durant happened to be transcendent at scoring and average to below average at passing, Tatum's nowhere near that package.
Right which is why your statement that "he's no Durant" more of a Pierce/George while complaining about his passing was really strange. FWIW he's not far off where George/Pierce were in their third years. Not much daylight between him and Pierce and George is just a tick above them both.

http://bkref.com/tiny/JoLEO

I just disagree with you about his passing, he's not been a ball stopper this year at all. He hasn't taken the leap to being a play maker, but he's made real progress with his passing.
And I simply disagree with your take that he's close to George/Pierce when it comes to passing, assists aren't the only measure of passing ability (ntm that he's 1.425 assists behind George per 75 possessions, but hey he's only a tick behind, a near 50% gap isn't that much!). Now you could argue that both of them carried a larger playmaking role than Tatum to inflate their assist totals (Pierce's assists per 75 is more impressive than Tatum's due to the deadball era not being as assist friendly compared to the pace and space game of today), but imo Tatum can't complete some of the passes they made even if he was thrust into an on ball role, Pierce and George simply made more advanced reads and didn't miss easy passing looks at such a worrying rate in their third years.

Btw I didn't accuse him of being a ball stopper, I said that he has this tendency to pound the ball and lock into a scoring mode when he has to break his man down 1 on 1 (he generally doesn't hold onto the ball for too long), which when combined with his subpar court vision/lack of advanced passing makes him quite a bit behind 3rd year Pierce and George as a passer even though he has time on his side.
Completely random aside, but why do you use per-75 possessions over per-100? Is it to keep the raw numbers less gaudy and more in line with realism?
Iirc it's more in line with the average amount of offensive possessions for an average team, so yeah you're not far off.

Currently NBA teams are averaging between 98.9 (Charlotte) and 106.8 (Milwaukee) possessions per game.

Boston is 21st in the league, at 101.9 per game.

You might recall the old NBA proverb: ‘A possession is a point’.

It’s supposed to be more in line with the number of possessions a player would play - not a team.

It’s the analogue of per-36 for production - fewer than the 48 minutes in a game but in line with what a player might average. Per-36 is falling out of vogue because (a) no one plays 36 mpg any more, and (b) per-possession better adjusts for pace.

Yeah, but I'm still not a big fan of the "per-75" semantic.  I'd rather they just use per-possession or per-100 because all the same criticisms that apply to per-36 also apply to per-75.  I.E., just as not every player plays 36 minutes in a game, not every player plays 75 possessions either.
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Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #141 on: January 26, 2020, 12:48:19 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Uh, Durant wasn't a passer at Tatum's age either. The difference between those two players isn't their passing. How many more assists do you think Durant was averaging in his third year?

The difference is Durant was getting to the line 6 more times and also just a superior shooter.
I mean how many third year players were averaging 29.55 points per 75 possession at +6.4% TS and -1.6 TOV%? Durant is an exception for a prospect with MVP potential lol, most young players with MVP potential are good at scoring and passing but Durant happened to be transcendent at scoring and average to below average at passing, Tatum's nowhere near that package.
Right which is why your statement that "he's no Durant" more of a Pierce/George while complaining about his passing was really strange. FWIW he's not far off where George/Pierce were in their third years. Not much daylight between him and Pierce and George is just a tick above them both.

http://bkref.com/tiny/JoLEO

I just disagree with you about his passing, he's not been a ball stopper this year at all. He hasn't taken the leap to being a play maker, but he's made real progress with his passing.
And I simply disagree with your take that he's close to George/Pierce when it comes to passing, assists aren't the only measure of passing ability (ntm that he's 1.425 assists behind George per 75 possessions, but hey he's only a tick behind, a near 50% gap isn't that much!). Now you could argue that both of them carried a larger playmaking role than Tatum to inflate their assist totals (Pierce's assists per 75 is more impressive than Tatum's due to the deadball era not being as assist friendly compared to the pace and space game of today), but imo Tatum can't complete some of the passes they made even if he was thrust into an on ball role, Pierce and George simply made more advanced reads and didn't miss easy passing looks at such a worrying rate in their third years.

Btw I didn't accuse him of being a ball stopper, I said that he has this tendency to pound the ball and lock into a scoring mode when he has to break his man down 1 on 1 (he generally doesn't hold onto the ball for too long), which when combined with his subpar court vision/lack of advanced passing makes him quite a bit behind 3rd year Pierce and George as a passer even though he has time on his side.
Completely random aside, but why do you use per-75 possessions over per-100? Is it to keep the raw numbers less gaudy and more in line with realism?
Iirc it's more in line with the average amount of offensive possessions for an average team, so yeah you're not far off.

Currently NBA teams are averaging between 98.9 (Charlotte) and 106.8 (Milwaukee) possessions per game.

Boston is 21st in the league, at 101.9 per game.

You might recall the old NBA proverb: ‘A possession is a point’.

It’s supposed to be more in line with the number of possessions a player would play - not a team.

It’s the analogue of per-36 for production - fewer than the 48 minutes in a game but in line with what a player might average. Per-36 is falling out of vogue because (a) no one plays 36 mpg any more, and (b) per-possession better adjusts for pace.

Oh. All very logical.

Per-36 is adjusting everyone to “star’s minutes”, rather than “starter’s minutes”, I suppose.

I would suggest adjusting everyone to an analogue of per-32, which would be something like .667x100, or i.e. per 67 possessions.

John Hollinger did a study a few years ago demonstrating that mostly getting more minutes doesn’t hurt a player’s relative production. I don’t remember if that was on a possession basis (probably; he invented the PER stat), or what exactly he was measuring.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 12:58:45 PM by Hoopvortex »
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #142 on: January 26, 2020, 02:06:15 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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I think Grant Williams will be playing in the NBA for a very long time.

But I don't think using GWill as a Center is a good idea.

Celts will not win a lot of playoff games if majority of his minutes are at Center.

I think that the results are not too bad - encouraging, in fact, and amazing when you consider that he’s undersized and a 21-year old rookie.

You’re right to point out that the playoffs are different; if he’s going to be effective in that role he’ll need plenty of reps in the regular season.

Interesting when they have him doing it: very often, to close quarters; in the Orlando game, finishing the 3rd and opening the 4th. The team was +4 in those minutes, fwiw.

Also a fascinating insight into the coaches’ thinking: in those minutes he was paired with Ojeleye, who is almost exactly the same weight and height, and shares the same lack of great length. Playing these two together has been going on since pre-season, off and on but frequently.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #143 on: January 26, 2020, 02:47:23 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
Yeah, 100% agree. He’s one of those guys that I just want to be around forever. He seems to be strong of body and mind.

If one of Romeo or Carsen can prove to be a serviceable guy I think 2019 will be quite a hit. I think Tremont will be a really solid guy too, might only be a career backup but I like what he does.

Romeo is a bust... I will not be posting on Celticsblog anymore if he is still with the team after his rookie contract.

He will take the Terry Rozier route.. That if ever he does make a good account of himself, it will be with another team... So Danny better trade him for Bertans or something.

I see a better future for Tacko tbh.

The only rookie that will stay with these draftees will be Grant but that's because he is a role player.

I’m surprised that you are already calling Romeo a bust. I’d say he’s got star upside. He’s got an excellent first step and burst off the floor, good touch on the jump shot and feel for the game. Good length, has real promise as a defender. Needs a year working on his body, but the elements are in place.

Terry Rozier is not a bust, and I would remind you that Rozier was part of getting Kemba Walker. You’re right to suggest that if Romeo’s game comes together it might not be with the Celtics - not a problem, is it?

Just how young Langford is going to break into the rotation is not at all clear. But a lot can happen over the course of a rookie contract (Hayward is up this off-season, for instance), so in my opinion Boston could do a lot worse than hanging onto him and developing his game.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #144 on: January 26, 2020, 03:23:20 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
Yeah, 100% agree. He’s one of those guys that I just want to be around forever. He seems to be strong of body and mind.

If one of Romeo or Carsen can prove to be a serviceable guy I think 2019 will be quite a hit. I think Tremont will be a really solid guy too, might only be a career backup but I like what he does.

Romeo is a bust... I will not be posting on Celticsblog anymore if he is still with the team after his rookie contract.

He will take the Terry Rozier route.. That if ever he does make a good account of himself, it will be with another team... So Danny better trade him for Bertans or something.

I see a better future for Tacko tbh.

The only rookie that will stay with these draftees will be Grant but that's because he is a role player.

I’m surprised that you are already calling Romeo a bust. I’d say he’s got star upside. He’s got an excellent first step and burst off the floor, good touch on the jump shot and feel for the game. Good length, has real promise as a defender. Needs a year working on his body, but the elements are in place.

Terry Rozier is not a bust, and I would remind you that Rozier was part of getting Kemba Walker. You’re right to suggest that if Romeo’s game comes together it might not be with the Celtics - not a problem, is it?

Just how young Langford is going to break into the rotation is not at all clear. But a lot can happen over the course of a rookie contract (Hayward is up this off-season, for instance), so in my opinion Boston could do a lot worse than hanging onto him and developing his game.
Few things:

1. Don't be surprised by bopna's "Langford is a bust" hot take. He has been riding that since preseason, I think.

2. I don't think Ainge had to trade Rozier to obtain Kemba. I think the story was Ainge was trying to work a three way sign and trade but the 3rd team(Nets?Sixers?) backed out and Ainge went through with the double sign and trade anyway even though he could have just signed Kemba. Ainge did Rozier and the Hornets a very large favor.

3. I think Romeo could get regular rotational minutes as soon as next year if Hayward or Smart are no longer on the team. If Hayward and Smart are on the team, Romeo could still hoover up all of Wanamaker's and Green's minutes, as both may have moved on to other teams next year. That's kinda like inconsistent rotational minutes, which is still a lot of minutes. Romeo should have ample opportunity to grow, develop and play next year and beyond. Ainge has already said he sees Romeo as a future 20 PPG scorer.

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #145 on: January 26, 2020, 04:44:14 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
Yeah, 100% agree. He’s one of those guys that I just want to be around forever. He seems to be strong of body and mind.

If one of Romeo or Carsen can prove to be a serviceable guy I think 2019 will be quite a hit. I think Tremont will be a really solid guy too, might only be a career backup but I like what he does.

Romeo is a bust... I will not be posting on Celticsblog anymore if he is still with the team after his rookie contract.

He will take the Terry Rozier route.. That if ever he does make a good account of himself, it will be with another team... So Danny better trade him for Bertans or something.

I see a better future for Tacko tbh.

The only rookie that will stay with these draftees will be Grant but that's because he is a role player.

I’m surprised that you are already calling Romeo a bust. I’d say he’s got star upside. He’s got an excellent first step and burst off the floor, good touch on the jump shot and feel for the game. Good length, has real promise as a defender. Needs a year working on his body, but the elements are in place.

Terry Rozier is not a bust, and I would remind you that Rozier was part of getting Kemba Walker. You’re right to suggest that if Romeo’s game comes together it might not be with the Celtics - not a problem, is it?

Just how young Langford is going to break into the rotation is not at all clear. But a lot can happen over the course of a rookie contract (Hayward is up this off-season, for instance), so in my opinion Boston could do a lot worse than hanging onto him and developing his game.
Few things:

1. Don't be surprised by bopna's "Langford is a bust" hot take. He has been riding that since preseason, I think.

2. I don't think Ainge had to trade Rozier to obtain Kemba. I think the story was Ainge was trying to work a three way sign and trade but the 3rd team(Nets?Sixers?) backed out and Ainge went through with the double sign and trade anyway even though he could have just signed Kemba. Ainge did Rozier and the Hornets a very large favor.

3. I think Romeo could get regular rotational minutes as soon as next year if Hayward or Smart are no longer on the team. If Hayward and Smart are on the team, Romeo could still hoover up all of Wanamaker's and Green's minutes, as both may have moved on to other teams next year. That's kinda like inconsistent rotational minutes, which is still a lot of minutes. Romeo should have ample opportunity to grow, develop and play next year and beyond. Ainge has already said he sees Romeo as a future 20 PPG scorer.

Agree with this down the line. I don’t know if Romeo will put it together, but it certainly seems to me that he could - and that taking minutes from Wanamaker or Green makes a lot of sense. If he can stay healthy, I can see 15 mins a game next year. It’s a shame he lost this year, but he’s still awfully young.

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #146 on: January 26, 2020, 05:08:16 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
Yeah, 100% agree. He’s one of those guys that I just want to be around forever. He seems to be strong of body and mind.

If one of Romeo or Carsen can prove to be a serviceable guy I think 2019 will be quite a hit. I think Tremont will be a really solid guy too, might only be a career backup but I like what he does.

Romeo is a bust... I will not be posting on Celticsblog anymore if he is still with the team after his rookie contract.

He will take the Terry Rozier route.. That if ever he does make a good account of himself, it will be with another team... So Danny better trade him for Bertans or something.

I see a better future for Tacko tbh.

The only rookie that will stay with these draftees will be Grant but that's because he is a role player.

I’m surprised that you are already calling Romeo a bust. I’d say he’s got star upside. He’s got an excellent first step and burst off the floor, good touch on the jump shot and feel for the game. Good length, has real promise as a defender. Needs a year working on his body, but the elements are in place.

Terry Rozier is not a bust, and I would remind you that Rozier was part of getting Kemba Walker. You’re right to suggest that if Romeo’s game comes together it might not be with the Celtics - not a problem, is it?

Just how young Langford is going to break into the rotation is not at all clear. But a lot can happen over the course of a rookie contract (Hayward is up this off-season, for instance), so in my opinion Boston could do a lot worse than hanging onto him and developing his game.
Few things:

1. Don't be surprised by bopna's "Langford is a bust" hot take. He has been riding that since preseason, I think.

2. I don't think Ainge had to trade Rozier to obtain Kemba. I think the story was Ainge was trying to work a three way sign and trade but the 3rd team(Nets?Sixers?) backed out and Ainge went through with the double sign and trade anyway even though he could have just signed Kemba. Ainge did Rozier and the Hornets a very large favor.

3. I think Romeo could get regular rotational minutes as soon as next year if Hayward or Smart are no longer on the team. If Hayward and Smart are on the team, Romeo could still hoover up all of Wanamaker's and Green's minutes, as both may have moved on to other teams next year. That's kinda like inconsistent rotational minutes, which is still a lot of minutes. Romeo should have ample opportunity to grow, develop and play next year and beyond. Ainge has already said he sees Romeo as a future 20 PPG scorer.
Hey, at least he's let go of "Hayward is Evan Turner 2.0" ;D

Maybe it just takes overwhelming evidence to the contrary for him to change his tune
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #147 on: January 27, 2020, 10:51:30 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.
Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

I do, too. Also have faith that he’ll get the turnovers under control.

I think Grant Williams is a Celtic. I love the ferocious, physical defense - already plays it like a veteran. He’s a born leader, mature at 21.  More than just a good passer, he moves the ball where it needs to go. He’s all about the team. He’s a connector, keeps it light in the locker room.

I predict a big step up in year two.

People are underestimating the Boston Celtics’ 2019 draft.
Yeah, 100% agree. He’s one of those guys that I just want to be around forever. He seems to be strong of body and mind.

If one of Romeo or Carsen can prove to be a serviceable guy I think 2019 will be quite a hit. I think Tremont will be a really solid guy too, might only be a career backup but I like what he does.

Romeo is a bust... I will not be posting on Celticsblog anymore if he is still with the team after his rookie contract.

He will take the Terry Rozier route.. That if ever he does make a good account of himself, it will be with another team... So Danny better trade him for Bertans or something.

I see a better future for Tacko tbh.

The only rookie that will stay with these draftees will be Grant but that's because he is a role player.

I’m surprised that you are already calling Romeo a bust. I’d say he’s got star upside. He’s got an excellent first step and burst off the floor, good touch on the jump shot and feel for the game. Good length, has real promise as a defender. Needs a year working on his body, but the elements are in place.

Terry Rozier is not a bust, and I would remind you that Rozier was part of getting Kemba Walker. You’re right to suggest that if Romeo’s game comes together it might not be with the Celtics - not a problem, is it?

Just how young Langford is going to break into the rotation is not at all clear. But a lot can happen over the course of a rookie contract (Hayward is up this off-season, for instance), so in my opinion Boston could do a lot worse than hanging onto him and developing his game.
Few things:

1. Don't be surprised by bopna's "Langford is a bust" hot take. He has been riding that since preseason, I think.

2. I don't think Ainge had to trade Rozier to obtain Kemba. I think the story was Ainge was trying to work a three way sign and trade but the 3rd team(Nets?Sixers?) backed out and Ainge went through with the double sign and trade anyway even though he could have just signed Kemba. Ainge did Rozier and the Hornets a very large favor.

3. I think Romeo could get regular rotational minutes as soon as next year if Hayward or Smart are no longer on the team. If Hayward and Smart are on the team, Romeo could still hoover up all of Wanamaker's and Green's minutes, as both may have moved on to other teams next year. That's kinda like inconsistent rotational minutes, which is still a lot of minutes. Romeo should have ample opportunity to grow, develop and play next year and beyond. Ainge has already said he sees Romeo as a future 20 PPG scorer.
Didn't the sign and trade allow Boston to use more or larger exceptions to help fill out the roster?  I seem to recall us being able to sign Kemba either way, but that the sign and trade opened up more money some how (it was also as you say a favor to Rozier).  I could be misremembering that though.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #148 on: January 27, 2020, 11:18:49 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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FWIW when Grant is on the Floor we do somewhat better (78.1 to 77.1) on the defensive glass than when he's off. Even as he individually has poor DREB%

His per minute box outs on the defensive glass are second best of our rotation players, Theis is number one.

So while he definitely doesn't go get rebounds at the rate you'd like it seems that he contributes reasonably well as to team rebounding. Make sense given his limited size and leaping ability, tries to make space for the wings and guards to crash down and clean up the glass. (which is the scheme all year since we play a wing at PF a lot)

Re: When are we going to start talking about Grant Williams’ shooting?
« Reply #149 on: January 27, 2020, 11:34:06 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I want Grant Williams to be a Celtic for a long time. I've got a feeling he's gonna contribute to a contender's success during his career.