Is Pierce a Top 5 All Time Celtic?

[birdwatcher]

Tommy Heinson should be up there somewhere!

Tommy & Russell did sooo much and won multiple championships as players and coaches. Glad a few people recognized Tommy--I'm not sure if the younger generation understands that Tommy is right up there as the consummate Celtic. As far as Pierce being top 5--surely not. But he may crack the top 10. Also--do you include KG or Ray on that list? How long do you need to be on the team to be considered for this list?

[MF Doom]

Tommy Heinson should be up there somewhere!

Tommy & Russell did sooo much and won multiple championships as players and coaches. Glad a few people recognized Tommy--I'm not sure if the younger generation understands that Tommy is right up there as the consummate Celtic. As far as Pierce being top 5--surely not. But he may crack the top 10. Also--do you include KG or Ray on that list? How long do you need to be on the team to be considered for this list?

Well I assumed the list was based on on court achievements. But if your basing your list on what an individual has contributed to the Celtics as an organization, than yeah Tommy would have to be in the top 3. He lives to be around this team. You'd have to add Red too of course though

[MF Doom]

Sorry i misunderstood what you wrote. I thought you said Tommy is in the top five. But yes I do agree he is definatley in the top ten

[Kuberski33]

I watched Havlicek quite a bit, and honestly I think Pierce stacks up very favorably with him.  But one thing about basketball is you need to assess where an individual player fits into the team concept.  Havlicek was the ultimate team player and maybe the best of all time at moving without the ball.  But put him in today's game and while I think he would certainly be a good player, he wouldn't be great.  Given the way teams rely on individual scorers so much in this era, a lot of what Havlicek brought to the table would be wasted.

Pierce is by far a better scorer, he's a better rebounder, and is close enough to Havlicek defensively that I really think you have to look at the context of the team they're playing on.

Honestly I think they're 5A and 5B. 

[footey]

I watched Havlicek quite a bit, and honestly I think Pierce stacks up very favorably with him.  But one thing about basketball is you need to assess where an individual player fits into the team concept.  Havlicek was the ultimate team player and maybe the best of all time at moving without the ball.  But put him in today's game and while I think he would certainly be a good player, he wouldn't be great.  Given the way teams rely on individual scorers so much in this era, a lot of what Havlicek brought to the table would be wasted.

Pierce is by far a better scorer, he's a better rebounder, and is close enough to Havlicek defensively that I really think you have to look at the context of the team they're playing on.

Honestly I think they're 5A and 5B. 

Well put. I agree with this. I too saw most of Havlicek's career (or at least listened to Johnny Most call play by play on it) and would agree with that Pierce was the better player overall.  I would rank Paul 5 and Hondo 6.

[Kuberski33]

1. Russell
2. Bird
3. Cousy
4. McHale
5A.Havlicek
5B.Pierce
6. Heinsohn
7. Cowens
8. DJ
9. Chief
10.Jo Jo White

Never saw Tommy play but I believe he won 9 titles in 10 sesaons.  That alone puts him on this list.  Cowens in his prime was terrific.  Never saw Sam Jones or Bill Sharman so I can't say for sure either isn't ahead of Jo Jo, so Jo Jo gets in there for that reason.  Originally had Paul Silas in Top 10 but he only played 4 seasons here.

I think you could arguably rank Cowens higher because he made a lousy team a contender.  They had Havlicek and Jo Jo the year before Cowens got there and stunk.  Cowens made them a top team.

[FatjohnReturns]

Pierce isnt even 1st on this team. Right now Kg and Rondo are carrying the C's. Pierce needs to get healthy. All time I dont know.

[Kuberski33]

Well put. I agree with this. I too saw most of Havlicek's career (or at least listened to Johnny Most call play by play on it) and would agree with that Pierce was the better player overall.  I would rank Paul 5 and Hondo 6.

Two reasons I put Havlicek at 5A - 1. To continue what I said about Hondo in today's game, the reverse applies to Pierce.  Put him in Havlicek's shoes (i.e. playing on those 60's & 70's Celtics teams and he isn't quite as effective a teammate as Havlicek was. Plus he'd have driven his coach (Tommy) nuts with trying to do it all himself at times and trying to go behind his back when he's double teamed. 2. I've always believed basketball is about the 5 man unit vs the superstar, so I'm partial to that era. But honestly, you're splitting hairs with those two.

[Andy Jick]

Too bad Reggie died so young.  He would have made the list...

It nearly makes me cry to think of what he and Bias could have become...

[PLamb]

Too bad Reggie died so young.  He would have made the list...

It nearly makes me cry to think of what he and Bias could have become...

You and me both

And my guess here is a bunch of others that can remember those times

Reggie was a better scoring version of Scottie Pippen, it's why he drove Jordan nuts when he had to be guarded by Reggie

Bias was LeBron without the elite passing skill

Imagine you will adding someone like LeBron to that 1986 squad and then the next year adding someone that played like Pippen and then let them blend with that talent

Your talking championships right up into the Jordan championship era

[vinnie]

I think Pierce is in the top 10. As for Havlicek versus Pierce, I don't think there is any contest there. Havlicek easily gets the nod for me. A far better two-way player than Pierce.

[sk7326]

in no particular order:

Bird, Russell, Havlicek have to be the top 3 ... the guys in line for the next two spots have to be

Sam Jones
Pierce
McHale
Cousy
Heinsohn (for lifetime achievement)
Cowens

Me?  I'd pick Cousy and Heinsohn and be done with it ...

Havlicek was not a better two way player than Pierce only because Pierce played in a much much much more defensively focused era than the other guys in the discussion played in.  It's not really close.  That said Pierce's attention at that end wavered - and he is now a great defender.

Havlicek's career is the among the most remarkable in a lot of ways in NBA history - how many guys hold that career of that quality for that length of time. 

[eat ur wheaties]

Pierce def top 10 all time, and looking at all time leaders, he ranks 3rd, 9th, and 7th in total points, boards, and assists respectively.  the only guy he played with that cracked top 10 in ANY of those cats was Antoine (10th in rebs).  he was the only guy worth a crap on nearly a decade of mediocre teams (at best).  if i had to make an all time C's roster, it would look like this:

Cousy
DJ
Bird
Hondo
Russell

Bench:
McHale
Pierce
Sam Jones
Cowens
Jojo White
Tommy
Parish
And of course, Red coaching
Honorable mention: See, the rafters

[DavorCroatiaFan]

1a. Russell
1b. Bird
3. Havlicek
4. Cousy
5. Cowens
6. McHale
7. Pierce
8. Jones
9. Parish
10.D.Johnson
11. White
12. Heinsohn