Percentage of White Americans in NBA

[PosImpos]

Did anybody see the piece about this on ESPN with Jalen Rose and Jon Barry?

I thought it was pretty interesting, though it didn't really address the reasons for it as much as I would have liked.

The part that got me thinking the most was when Jon talked about how his brother won the Slam Dunk Contest and people kept saying stuff like "that's pretty impressive for a white guy."

I just thought, that's like somebody saying "Hey, I heard LeBron is investing his money in stocks and bonds.  That's remarkably responsible for a black guy!"  You'd get throw on your ass (physically and in terms of your reputation) if you said that.

Another somewhat shocking part was when Jon mentioned that Derek Fisher once said to him about Jason Williams - "When I am playing and I see a white guy is defending me, I know I have an advantage."  Try to tell me how a white guy would ever get away with a statement like that.  "When I am playing chess and I see a black guy as my opponent, I know I have an advantage."  I don't even have to explain why you'd get in trouble for that.

[Roy Hobbs]

A reminder to everyone:  tread lightly in this thread.  These are pretty emotionally charged issues.  Since ESPN is discussing the issue I guess it's relevant, but this generally isn't a topic we're in love with here.

As for some of the talk about stereotypes, here are some biggies from our own Larry Legend:

ESPN host Jim Gray asked Bird whether the NBA lacks enough white superstars.

"Well, I think so," said Bird, the Indiana Pacers' president of basketball operations. "You know, when I played, you had me and Kevin [McHale] and some others throughout the league. I think it's good for a fan base because, as we all know, the majority of the fans are white America. And if you just had a couple of white guys in there, you might get them a little excited. But it is a black man's game, and it will be forever. I mean, the greatest athletes in the world are African-American." . . .

"The one thing that always bothered me when I played in the NBA was I really got irritated when they put a white guy on me," Bird said. "I still don't understand why. A white guy would come out (and) I would always ask him: 'What, do you have a problem with your coach? Did your coach do this to you?' And he'd go, 'No,' and I'd say, 'Come on, you got a white guy coming out here to guard me; you got no chance.' ... For some reason, that always bothered me when I was playing against a white guy.

"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me -- red, yellow, black," Bird added. "I just didn't want a white guy guarding me. Because it's disrespect to my game."

Link.

I think that Larry is probably right that fan bases would hold a special place in their heart for a white superstar.  That's terrible to say, of course, but I think he's right about that.  Not all fans feel like that, and not even a majority, but I think there would be an impact.

As for the decline in the percentage of white American player, I would assume this is a product of either a smaller percentage of white Americans focusing on basketball now as compared to previously.  I think it's probably similar to why you're seeing a decline in the number of black Americans who play baseball; there simply aren't as many playing as youths now as there used to be.

[PosImpos]

Wow, it's pretty shocking that even Larry has such a clear bias against white players.  I mean, doesn't he understand the irony and hypocrisy of his taking offense to being guarded by a white guy?

Larry is right, though.  Young white Americans lack a star role model in the NBA, and star role models inspire kids to pursue the dream of playing in the NBA.  The closest you get, I guess, is Steve Nash, but he's not technically American.  There's also Dirk Nowitzki, but he is European.  Young black Americans have Michael Jordan, and they've had him for a long time.  I imagine that a lot of young black kids want to be "like Mike."  It used to be that young white Americans had Larry Bird, but now he's faded from the consciousness of most younger fans and players (largely because of MJ - the same thing has happened to Magic Johnson and plenty of other pre-MJ stars). 

Until there's a guy in the NBA who can be to young NBA fans what Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees are to young NFL fans, there won't be as many young white Americans trying to become great basketball players.

Personally I disagree with the idea that blacks are the greatest athletes in the world and it's their inherent athleticism that gets them into the NBA.

I think a big part of it is socio-economic and cultural issues.  Another part of it, I think, is that ethnically height is a factor - there aren't a whole lot of really tall white Americans (though there are plenty of tall white Europeans).  You can find great white American athletes in any number of sports (Michael Phelps for example), they just don't often have body types which are conducive to basketball.  Or, at least, they are more conducive to the sport they play.  Overseas the biggest sport competing with basketball is probably soccer, but in soccer it's difficult to play if you're really, really tall (besides goalie).  Which might be why very tall European players turn to basketball instead.

[Amonkey]

Can you put up a link to the article?  I can't find it anywhere.

[MattG12]

I'm watching this right now... I want McAlarney or whatever his name is on the Red Claws.

[fairweatherfan]

I think that Larry is probably right that fan bases would hold a special place in their heart for a white superstar.  That's terrible to say, of course, but I think he's right about that.  Not all fans feel like that, and not even a majority, but I think there would be an impact.

I think Larry is right too, but I don't think it's terrible to say so - all else being equal, people tend to prefer those that they see as similar to themselves, because when the player succeeds it's easier to vicariously feel like you've succeeded yourself.  Physical appearance is the easiest way to see similarity, and skin color is one of the most obvious physical characteristics.  Scal wouldn't be nearly as popular in Boston if he was black, or even if he was blond - not because of bigotry, but simply because being a pale redheaded guy makes him someone a lot of local fans can relate to (and because it makes him seem like an underdog, which people like too).  

It's the same reason people will usually be big supporters of a player who came from their hometown, even if they've never met the guy.  It's just human nature.  As long as preferring people like yourself doesn't lead to hating those who aren't, I think it's fine.

[dooyork]

I've always loved those comments from Larry.  He can really say whatever he wants, because he was the greatest and can back it up.  He had real swagger.

Back in the early days the majority of basketball players were Jewish, and commentators would come up with generalizations about Jewish people to explain why they were good at basketball.  The reality is, it's a city game because you don't need a large land area and a lot of people can join in quickly, and so it's played by youths in urban areas.  It's also true that fans will cheer more for white NBA players to succeed and become stars these days, because it's more rare, the odds are more stacked against it.  People love underdog stories.  Wherever one group is underrepresented, people will be happy when someone from that group succeeds.  That's why Rush Limbaugh was right that the media cheers for McNabb because of his race.  I do too, I like to see it when a black quarterback makes it, or a black golfer, or a white rapper becomes the best rapper out there.  The NFL has policies in place to get more black head coaches, because it's been traditionally a white field, so the NFL obviously feels the same way.  This is neither surprising nor sinister.  Millions of Americans of all colors were influenced to vote for Obama in part because of his race, since the previous 43 presidents were all white.  This isn't a bad thing, it's just reality, we cheer for people who seem to be outsiders or underdogs.

[dooyork]

people tend to prefer those that they see as similar to themselves, because when the player succeeds it's easier to vicariously feel like you've succeeded yourself.  Physical appearance is the easiest way to see similarity, and skin color is one of the most obvious physical characteristics.  Scal wouldn't be nearly as popular in Boston if he was black, or even if he was blond - not because of bigotry, but simply because being a pale redheaded guy makes him someone a lot of local fans can relate to

Thats a good point too, TP

[Amonkey]

I think that Larry is probably right that fan bases would hold a special place in their heart for a white superstar.  That's terrible to say, of course, but I think he's right about that.  Not all fans feel like that, and not even a majority, but I think there would be an impact.

I think Larry is right too, but I don't think it's terrible to say so - all else being equal, people tend to prefer those that they see as similar to themselves, because when the player succeeds it's easier to vicariously feel like you've succeeded yourself.  Physical appearance is the easiest way to see similarity, and skin color is one of the most obvious physical characteristics.  Scal wouldn't be nearly as popular in Boston if he was black, or even if he was blond - not because of bigotry, but simply because being a pale redheaded guy makes him someone a lot of local fans can relate to (and because it makes him seem like an underdog, which people like too). 

It's the same reason people will usually be big supporters of a player who came from their hometown, even if they've never met the guy.  It's just human nature.  As long as preferring people like yourself doesn't lead to hating those who aren't, I think it's fine.

I have to disagree with on this one.  Walter McCarty was a fan favorite and he was black.  Maybe our human nature is root for goofy, tall players that can shoot 3s.

[shiggins]

All of this is completely true.

Just look back a few years, and the whole country was very excited about both Adam Morrison and JJ Redick.  Both were regarded much higher then their actual ability, because I think White America did want to have a white superstar. 

All of this inherent athletic ability based on race is foolish in my opinion, but thats just me.  All of the science I was taught in school refuted that, but I really dont know.

Personally I'd love to see a white superstar, as I am very happy that Yao is an Asian superstar.  I love having Dirk as a European star.  I think it just adds to the game.  There has really not been a great American white superstar for a while.  All you little white kids out there start practicing harder!

[mgent]

A reminder to everyone:  tread lightly in this thread.  These are pretty emotionally charged issues.  Since ESPN is discussing the issue I guess it's relevant, but this generally isn't a topic we're in love with here.

As for some of the talk about stereotypes, here are some biggies from our own Larry Legend:

ESPN host Jim Gray asked Bird whether the NBA lacks enough white superstars.

"Well, I think so," said Bird, the Indiana Pacers' president of basketball operations. "You know, when I played, you had me and Kevin [McHale] and some others throughout the league. I think it's good for a fan base because, as we all know, the majority of the fans are white America. And if you just had a couple of white guys in there, you might get them a little excited. But it is a black man's game, and it will be forever. I mean, the greatest athletes in the world are African-American." . . .

"The one thing that always bothered me when I played in the NBA was I really got irritated when they put a white guy on me," Bird said. "I still don't understand why. A white guy would come out (and) I would always ask him: 'What, do you have a problem with your coach? Did your coach do this to you?' And he'd go, 'No,' and I'd say, 'Come on, you got a white guy coming out here to guard me; you got no chance.' ... For some reason, that always bothered me when I was playing against a white guy.

"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me -- red, yellow, black," Bird added. "I just didn't want a white guy guarding me. Because it's disrespect to my game."

Link.

I think that Larry is probably right that fan bases would hold a special place in their heart for a white superstar.  That's terrible to say, of course, but I think he's right about that.  Not all fans feel like that, and not even a majority, but I think there would be an impact.

As for the decline in the percentage of white American player, I would assume this is a product of either a smaller percentage of white Americans focusing on basketball now as compared to previously.  I think it's probably similar to why you're seeing a decline in the number of black Americans who play baseball; there simply aren't as many playing as youths now as there used to be.

He doesn't even have to be a superstar.  Look at how many fans Scal has.

[Amonkey]

By the way, don't look now but Milwaukee looks to be the most diversified team in the league.  They almost have a starting rotation of international players.

PG- Brandon Jennings (played in Italy)
SF- Carlos Delfino (Argentina)
PF- Ersan Ilyasova (Turkey)
C- Andrew Bogut (Australia)

Not to mention...
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute (Cameroon)
Franciso Elson (Netherlands)
Dan Gadzuric (Netherlands)
Roko Ukic (Yugoslavia)
Joe Alexander (Taiwan)

...wow, come to think about it, almost the entire team are foreigners.  The Americans are actually the minority.  Considering that 8 out 15 players were born outside USA.

[PosImpos]

By the way, don't look now but Milwaukee looks to be the most diversified team in the league.  They almost have a starting rotation of international players.

PG- Brandon Jennings (played in Italy)
SF- Carlos Delfino (Argentina)
PF- Ersan Ilyasova (Turkey)
C- Andrew Bogut (Australia)

Not to mention...
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute (Cameroon)
Franciso Elson (Netherlands)
Dan Gadzuric (Netherlands)
Roko Ukic (Yugoslavia)
Joe Alexander (Taiwan)

...wow, come to think about it, almost the entire team are foreigners.  The Americans are actually the minority.  Considering that 8 out 15 players were born outside USA.

Yeah, and they are a fairly physical team with solid defense.  Pretty much the anti-Raptors.  The Bucks really discredit the stereotype that foreign players are soft / don't play defense.

[dark_lord]

if you can play, you can play....regardless of what you look like or where ur from.

[Eja117]

I totally agree with DL

Personally I thought when I played guys at the Y they underrated me because I had all my natural teeth, no tatoos, a men's haircut, and spoke English (that didn't involve a swear every third word)

nothing could have made me happier. I love it when I'm underrated.

I think white guys tend to dominate snow sports and black guys tend to dominate warm weather sports.  I think it has to do with how bodies developed to deal with their environments. Then you throw various socio-economics into it and there you go.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions....non-issue. 

Larry probably felt like a poor guy who loved the game and excelled in it and probably felt like he had way more in common with Magic than say a Mike Dunleavy Jr and I don't blame him for a nano-second.