Anybody Else Worried and How I'd Fix It

[Celtics978Fan]

After some of the dust has settled and we're seeing how the Celtics are shaping up next season, I'm a little worried.  I think losing Smart and Grant Williams both are going to hurt us.  We've kind of lost of the abilities to defensive switch.  Smart being a player who could really guard 1-5 depending and never backed down.  Then as much as I'm not a fan of Grant Williams his defense was nice to have 5-3. 

I like the addition of Porzingis because what he can bring to the Celtics.  When healthy he could be our second best player on the team not just the third option.  Plus signing him to a 2 year extension I think was the right idea because gives flexibility in the long run.  The Brissett signing I believe was a nice little addition in hope to help some of the defensive lose between Smart and Williams.  Banton was a nice cheap pick up for a point guard specially since Pritchard has one foot out the door already. 

The Jaylen Brown extension I can't stand.  We overpaid a player in which we should have traded on draft day to the Blazers if that deal was legit.  Simons and the 3rd pick which would of been Scoot Henderson who I think could be the best player in this draft.  Plus would have given us the point guard of now and future, plus Simons as a starting shooting guard for less then half the price of Brown.   

After just looking at the rest of the NBA and seeing some teams get better and others get worse, it made me look at the Celtics right now and the future.  Right now I still think they're in need of another guard plus another big/wing.  Just because if Williams, Horford or Porzingis get hurt we're screwed.  So I started looking at come trade deadline, how we could improve our team now and in the future, plus not paying Jaylen Brown. 

The two trades I came up with I believe help all teams overall. 

#1
Celtics Trade - Malcolm Brogdon, 2 2nd
Spurs Trade - Keldon Johnson

The Spurs get a true veteran point guard to put next to Wembanyama.  Plus they have some young wing players making less money the Johnson.  The Celtics they do this to replace Jaylen Brown.  Johnson is younger, signed 4 years and pay goes down each year not up.  As of right now he's only averaging 4 less points then Brown and has more of a chance to improve with us even more.   

#2
Celtics Trade - Jaylen Brown
Hawks Trade - Clint Capela and Dejounte Murray

The Hawk do this to pair up with Young to have a true superstar duo.  This also puts the ball more in Youngs hand again since him and Murray seem to be going back and forth with that right now.  The Celtics now get a point guard to pair up with White in the guard positions.  Plus they've played well with each other alright with both being with the Spurs.  Capela becomes the extra on the trade for us to give us reinforcement this year and next, specially with who knows how long Horford will be playing.  Capela also gives us the ability to rest Porzingis, Williams and Horford some more in the push for the playoffs.


Always enjoy reading people who actually respond to post and think about what they say.  Not just a simple one line of, "This is stupid."
 

[Roy H.]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

[Celtics978Fan]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

Oh I would have loved that trade from Portland you put up even more.  I mainly wanted the trade with Portland because Jaylen isn't worth the money he just got paid.  I know it's all done by the CBA and all but no player is worth 52 million a year and going up to just shy of 70 million a year.  You can't build a legit team around 2 players making that kind of money.  That's why I would have rather Simons and Henderson all day over Brown.

[BitterJim]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

Oh I would have loved that trade from Portland you put up even more.  I mainly wanted the trade with Portland because Jaylen isn't worth the money he just got paid.  I know it's all done by the CBA and all but no player is worth 52 million a year and going up to just shy of 70 million a year.  You can't build a legit team around 2 players making that kind of money.  That's why I would have rather Simons and Henderson all day over Brown.

So then I assume you'd be looking to trade Henderson before his contract finishes? Because even a normal max for a player with less than 7 years experience in his FA year (2027) will be just shy of $50 million in year one. For a full 5 year contract you're looking at 5/$289, just $14 million shy of what Brown signed for. If he qualifies for a designated rookie extension, that becomes almost $60 million year one and 5/$346 overall.

If you want to argue that Brown getting 35% of the cap is too much, go ahead. But ignoring the reality of the increasing salary cap is just sticking your head in the sand. As long as the NBA keeps bringing in more money, the players are gonna get their share through increasing salaries. The numbers might make you uncomfortable, but that's the reality of NBA salaries going forward.

[action781]

That would be really shortsighted of the Spurs to trade us Keldon Johnson for Malcolm Brogdon.
They have a window that is farther out, more in line with Keldon and less so with Malcolm.
We have a window that is more near term, more in like with Malcolm and less so with Keldon.  (Although Keldon might just be better in a vacuum in the present, which is why it really doesn't make sense for the Spurs)
I think Spurs can get a veteran presence at point guard by giving up less than Keldon.

[ozgod]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

Oh I would have loved that trade from Portland you put up even more.  I mainly wanted the trade with Portland because Jaylen isn't worth the money he just got paid.  I know it's all done by the CBA and all but no player is worth 52 million a year and going up to just shy of 70 million a year.  You can't build a legit team around 2 players making that kind of money.  That's why I would have rather Simons and Henderson all day over Brown.

It's not so much the amount of money but the % of the salary cap. So the total impact on your salary cap of two (super) max contracts would be 70%, the same as it has been since this current CBA, whether that's $20m of a $58m salary cap in 2013-14, the year the Spurs won, or $46m of $131m this coming season. It's still the same % of the total cap. So what you're really telling Jaylen, and JT, and others when you put your offers to them, is what % of the cap their salary will take up. Because Jaylen met specific criteria he was eligible for 35%.

So any GM who wants to build a superteam or has to work out how to fill out a roster with 70% of the cap taken up by 2 max contracts, or 105% of the cap if you have 3 max contracts. So the GM has to make use of resigning players using Bird rights and using MLEs and vet minimums and rookie scale contracts working out how far over the luxury tax you want to go and whether you want to breach the second apron which introduces roster building penalties.

I'm no cap expert (everything I learned was from people here like Roy and Celtics2021 and BitterJim and others) but I'm guessing that's why players get overpaid all the time, because if you're over the cap and you let a player walk because you think he's not worth what he wants, you may not be able to replace him like-for-like if you are still over the cap after renouncing him. Or at best you replace a $20m-$30m player with a $5-10m one. At that point it's as much asset retention and asset management, having a fungible asset for trade, as "paying someone what they're really worth".

[Big333223]

Jaylen Brown was 9th in the league in scoring last season. He scores from everywhere on the floor. He defends 4 positions and can be trusted to switch onto centers when he has to. He's 26 years old which means he's only just now entering his prime and has a track record of work ethic and improving his game.

Fans need to catch up to the fact that Jaylen Brown is one of the best players in the NBA. He's considerably better than plenty of players who have gotten max contracts in the past.

I'm looking forward to watching this team. White/Brown/Tatum/Timelord/Porzingis with Pritchard/Brogdon/Brissett/Hauser/Horford is a team with a lot of size, shooting, versatility. The coaching staff has been beefed up and the best players will have the room to step into their leadership roles. This team feels, to me, like things have fallen into place.

[Silas]

Jaylen Brown was 9th in the league in scoring last season. He scores from everywhere on the floor. He defends 4 positions and can be trusted to switch onto centers when he has to. He's 26 years old which means he's only just now entering his prime and has a track record of work ethic and improving his game.

Fans need to catch up to the fact that Jaylen Brown is one of the best players in the NBA. He's considerably better than plenty of players who have gotten max contracts in the past.

I'm looking forward to watching this team. White/Brown/Tatum/Timelord/Porzingis with Pritchard/Brogdon/Brissett/Hauser/Horford is a team with a lot of size, shooting, versatility. The coaching staff has been beefed up and the best players will have the room to step into their leadership roles. This team feels, to me, like things have fallen into place.

I'm with you 100%.

[Celtics978Fan]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

Oh I would have loved that trade from Portland you put up even more.  I mainly wanted the trade with Portland because Jaylen isn't worth the money he just got paid.  I know it's all done by the CBA and all but no player is worth 52 million a year and going up to just shy of 70 million a year.  You can't build a legit team around 2 players making that kind of money.  That's why I would have rather Simons and Henderson all day over Brown.

So then I assume you'd be looking to trade Henderson before his contract finishes? Because even a normal max for a player with less than 7 years experience in his FA year (2027) will be just shy of $50 million in year one. For a full 5 year contract you're looking at 5/$289, just $14 million shy of what Brown signed for. If he qualifies for a designated rookie extension, that becomes almost $60 million year one and 5/$346 overall.

If you want to argue that Brown getting 35% of the cap is too much, go ahead. But ignoring the reality of the increasing salary cap is just sticking your head in the sand. As long as the NBA keeps bringing in more money, the players are gonna get their share through increasing salaries. The numbers might make you uncomfortable, but that's the reality of NBA salaries going forward.

Your assumption is wrong of wanting to trade Scoot Henderson before the contract ends.  I am arguing that 35% of the cap being to Jaylen Brown right now is going to be the problem.  Since I don't think Brown give us the amount of wins and a title chance to be worth that kind of money.  I rather have Simons and Henderson combined salary be less then what Brown makes to add more pieces to the roster.  The salary will keep going up and I know that but as the Celtics sit right now, I think Brown was an overpay since we don't have enough other pieces. 

[Celtics978Fan]

That would be really shortsighted of the Spurs to trade us Keldon Johnson for Malcolm Brogdon.
They have a window that is farther out, more in line with Keldon and less so with Malcolm.
We have a window that is more near term, more in like with Malcolm and less so with Keldon.  (Although Keldon might just be better in a vacuum in the present, which is why it really doesn't make sense for the Spurs)
I think Spurs can get a veteran presence at point guard by giving up less than Keldon.

I do think it might take more then Brogdon but I was more looking at the salary to match.  Honestly if these two trades I put together happened I'd be more then happy to give up a 1st round and multiple 2nds for Johnson.  I just know we heard a lot of Johnson could be available.   

[Neurotic Guy]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

Oh I would have loved that trade from Portland you put up even more.  I mainly wanted the trade with Portland because Jaylen isn't worth the money he just got paid.  I know it's all done by the CBA and all but no player is worth 52 million a year and going up to just shy of 70 million a year.  You can't build a legit team around 2 players making that kind of money.  That's why I would have rather Simons and Henderson all day over Brown.

So then I assume you'd be looking to trade Henderson before his contract finishes? Because even a normal max for a player with less than 7 years experience in his FA year (2027) will be just shy of $50 million in year one. For a full 5 year contract you're looking at 5/$289, just $14 million shy of what Brown signed for. If he qualifies for a designated rookie extension, that becomes almost $60 million year one and 5/$346 overall.

If you want to argue that Brown getting 35% of the cap is too much, go ahead. But ignoring the reality of the increasing salary cap is just sticking your head in the sand. As long as the NBA keeps bringing in more money, the players are gonna get their share through increasing salaries. The numbers might make you uncomfortable, but that's the reality of NBA salaries going forward.

Your assumption is wrong of wanting to trade Scoot Henderson before the contract ends.  I am arguing that 35% of the cap being to Jaylen Brown right now is going to be the problem.  Since I don't think Brown give us the amount of wins and a title chance to be worth that kind of money.  I rather have Simons and Henderson combined salary be less then what Brown makes to add more pieces to the roster.  The salary will keep going up and I know that but as the Celtics sit right now, I think Brown was an overpay since we don't have enough other pieces.

Not enough other pieces?  Take 2nd team all-NBA / all-star Brown out of the lineup:

White
Brogdon
Tatum
Porzingis
Rob/Al

Al/Rob
PP
Sam
Brisset
Walsh
Luke

This team without Brown is very good. 

[Celtics978Fan]

Jaylen Brown was 9th in the league in scoring last season. He scores from everywhere on the floor. He defends 4 positions and can be trusted to switch onto centers when he has to. He's 26 years old which means he's only just now entering his prime and has a track record of work ethic and improving his game.

Fans need to catch up to the fact that Jaylen Brown is one of the best players in the NBA. He's considerably better than plenty of players who have gotten max contracts in the past.

I'm looking forward to watching this team. White/Brown/Tatum/Timelord/Porzingis with Pritchard/Brogdon/Brissett/Hauser/Horford is a team with a lot of size, shooting, versatility. The coaching staff has been beefed up and the best players will have the room to step into their leadership roles. This team feels, to me, like things have fallen into place.

First from what I'm find Brown was not 9th in total scoring, he was 14th, with 1784 points on the year.  I agree that he's still young and could improve to be better, but I don't think he gets better because of being here with Tatum.  I think him and Tatum overlap to much and Tatum would excel even more with better pieces around him.   

If you taker the players I suggested in this trade, I think they'd play better as a team with Tatum.  Plus they'd cost less money, which means we can build an even better team as a whole.  Trading Malcolm Brogdon is #99 at 1000 points on the year.  So we'd get back, Keldon Johnson is #40 at 1385 points on the year.  Anfernee Simons is #49 at 1306 points on the year.  This isn't including what Scoot Henderson would get you on the year. 

[Who]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

Oh I would have loved that trade from Portland you put up even more.  I mainly wanted the trade with Portland because Jaylen isn't worth the money he just got paid.  I know it's all done by the CBA and all but no player is worth 52 million a year and going up to just shy of 70 million a year.  You can't build a legit team around 2 players making that kind of money.  That's why I would have rather Simons and Henderson all day over Brown.

So then I assume you'd be looking to trade Henderson before his contract finishes? Because even a normal max for a player with less than 7 years experience in his FA year (2027) will be just shy of $50 million in year one. For a full 5 year contract you're looking at 5/$289, just $14 million shy of what Brown signed for. If he qualifies for a designated rookie extension, that becomes almost $60 million year one and 5/$346 overall.

If you want to argue that Brown getting 35% of the cap is too much, go ahead. But ignoring the reality of the increasing salary cap is just sticking your head in the sand. As long as the NBA keeps bringing in more money, the players are gonna get their share through increasing salaries. The numbers might make you uncomfortable, but that's the reality of NBA salaries going forward.

Your assumption is wrong of wanting to trade Scoot Henderson before the contract ends.  I am arguing that 35% of the cap being to Jaylen Brown right now is going to be the problem.  Since I don't think Brown give us the amount of wins and a title chance to be worth that kind of money.  I rather have Simons and Henderson combined salary be less then what Brown makes to add more pieces to the roster.  The salary will keep going up and I know that but as the Celtics sit right now, I think Brown was an overpay since we don't have enough other pieces.

Not enough other pieces?  Take 2nd team all-NBA / all-star Brown out of the lineup:

White
Brogdon
Tatum
Porzingis
Rob/Al

Al/Rob
PP
Sam
Brisset
Walsh
Luke

This team without Brown is very good.

That team is a title contender without Jaylen Brown.

Brogdon and Porzingis can make up for most of Jaylen's lost scoring. Tatum gets to take an even bigger role on offense. That team is still a title contender without Jaylen Brown.

[Celtics978Fan]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

Oh I would have loved that trade from Portland you put up even more.  I mainly wanted the trade with Portland because Jaylen isn't worth the money he just got paid.  I know it's all done by the CBA and all but no player is worth 52 million a year and going up to just shy of 70 million a year.  You can't build a legit team around 2 players making that kind of money.  That's why I would have rather Simons and Henderson all day over Brown.

So then I assume you'd be looking to trade Henderson before his contract finishes? Because even a normal max for a player with less than 7 years experience in his FA year (2027) will be just shy of $50 million in year one. For a full 5 year contract you're looking at 5/$289, just $14 million shy of what Brown signed for. If he qualifies for a designated rookie extension, that becomes almost $60 million year one and 5/$346 overall.

If you want to argue that Brown getting 35% of the cap is too much, go ahead. But ignoring the reality of the increasing salary cap is just sticking your head in the sand. As long as the NBA keeps bringing in more money, the players are gonna get their share through increasing salaries. The numbers might make you uncomfortable, but that's the reality of NBA salaries going forward.

Your assumption is wrong of wanting to trade Scoot Henderson before the contract ends.  I am arguing that 35% of the cap being to Jaylen Brown right now is going to be the problem.  Since I don't think Brown give us the amount of wins and a title chance to be worth that kind of money.  I rather have Simons and Henderson combined salary be less then what Brown makes to add more pieces to the roster.  The salary will keep going up and I know that but as the Celtics sit right now, I think Brown was an overpay since we don't have enough other pieces.

Not enough other pieces?  Take 2nd team all-NBA / all-star Brown out of the lineup:

White
Brogdon
Tatum
Porzingis
Rob/Al

Al/Rob
PP
Sam
Brisset
Walsh
Luke

This team without Brown is very good.

This team without Brown how you put it is getting out the 1st round and anything else is a blessing.  Brogdon is an injury risk and wouldn't be able to play a full season as a starter.  Porzingis last year had one of his best years he's had but is a huge injury concern with his history.  Horford isn't getting any younger and was showing signs of it during the season and playoffs so he can't be a full time starter.  Robert Williams can't stay on the court we're finding out more and more.  Yes, he's a force when on the court but he's not on it enough.  That second unit gets laughed at by some of the other benches in the NBA. 

[Neurotic Guy]

The Portland trade would have been interesting.  That said, Scoot isn't ready.  I think it would have downgraded our chances in the present.  I think the only way the Celtics could have lived with that is if they were being overpaid.

For instance, JB for Simons + Sharpe + #3 + 2029 swap rights

Moot now.  No trades for one year.

Oh I would have loved that trade from Portland you put up even more.  I mainly wanted the trade with Portland because Jaylen isn't worth the money he just got paid.  I know it's all done by the CBA and all but no player is worth 52 million a year and going up to just shy of 70 million a year.  You can't build a legit team around 2 players making that kind of money.  That's why I would have rather Simons and Henderson all day over Brown.

So then I assume you'd be looking to trade Henderson before his contract finishes? Because even a normal max for a player with less than 7 years experience in his FA year (2027) will be just shy of $50 million in year one. For a full 5 year contract you're looking at 5/$289, just $14 million shy of what Brown signed for. If he qualifies for a designated rookie extension, that becomes almost $60 million year one and 5/$346 overall.

If you want to argue that Brown getting 35% of the cap is too much, go ahead. But ignoring the reality of the increasing salary cap is just sticking your head in the sand. As long as the NBA keeps bringing in more money, the players are gonna get their share through increasing salaries. The numbers might make you uncomfortable, but that's the reality of NBA salaries going forward.

Your assumption is wrong of wanting to trade Scoot Henderson before the contract ends.  I am arguing that 35% of the cap being to Jaylen Brown right now is going to be the problem.  Since I don't think Brown give us the amount of wins and a title chance to be worth that kind of money.  I rather have Simons and Henderson combined salary be less then what Brown makes to add more pieces to the roster.  The salary will keep going up and I know that but as the Celtics sit right now, I think Brown was an overpay since we don't have enough other pieces.

Not enough other pieces?  Take 2nd team all-NBA / all-star Brown out of the lineup:

White
Brogdon
Tatum
Porzingis
Rob/Al

Al/Rob
PP
Sam
Brisset
Walsh
Luke

This team without Brown is very good.

This team without Brown how you put it is getting out the 1st round and anything else is a blessing.  Brogdon is an injury risk and wouldn't be able to play a full season as a starter.  Porzingis last year had one of his best years he's had but is a huge injury concern with his history.  Horford isn't getting any younger and was showing signs of it during the season and playoffs so he can't be a full time starter.  Robert Williams can't stay on the court we're finding out more and more.  Yes, he's a force when on the court but he's not on it enough.  That second unit gets laughed at by some of the other benches in the NBA.

There’s always best case and worst case. If Rob, Malcom and KP are hurt come playoff time (and Al is bent over with age), they don’t even make the playoffs.  But I’m with Who - if this team without Brown is healthy in April, they contend.

Oh, then add Jaylen Brown.

EVERY team deals with injury threat. Khris Middleton is a concern annually, Sixers worry about Embiid’s stamina, A. Davis, Paul George, Kawhi….  And those are all stars. Every team has fragile rotation players.  Cs roster is a championship contender on paper, and thankfully Jaylen is still part of it.

Btw - I don’t think Brad is done. He’ll strengthen the roster soon or during the season.

Looking forward to:
Pritchard
Houser
Brissett
Walsh
I don’t have crazy expectations, but I think any/all could surprise. Glass half full.