Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[wdleehi]

greg683x:
"And look, our star player Jaylen, who is also vice president of the players association, has openly said before that he wants to rapidly increase the amount of black coaches in the league regardless of whether they’re the most qualified or not. "

Frightening that Jaylen Brown would say something that stupid. In other words, getting more black faces on the sidelines is the priority above everything else, even if your team suffers the consequences of mediocre to poor coaching if, in fact, a team hires a lesser coach because of their skin color over a more accomplished candidate who is white. Brown is campaigning for affirmative action, which is an insult to blacks, at one of the highest levels of sport. The franchise should not be held hostage because one player would be unhappy if we fired an inferior coach because he is black. That's just crazy, but I could see Brad and Wyc doing it.

I have wondered all season what the players really think about Joe and his coaching. They have to have seen the difference in how they are playing now as opposed to last year. Joe's emphasis on offense and poor shot selection plays right into this team's worst tendencies. Both Tatum and Brown independently commented on our bad shot selection and over-reliance on 3's after they watched a game from home when they were injured. Several players made statements about their focus on playing strong defense in game 2 vs Philly and how important it was in the win.

What was JB's specific quote regarding black coaches?

Didn't have time to read the whole thing...but from my skim of the initial thrust, i think you need to read btwn the lines to attribute those exact feelings to JB.
It does read like he is playing both sides of the coin a bit...he can be a confusing speaker.

https://andscape.com/features/jaylen-brown-on-why-its-important-for-celtics-and-nba-to-hire-african-american-head-coaches/

They deserve to have a seat at the table too, especially in coaching positions, as well as in-office positions, ownership positions. Those are important as well, especially if they’re qualified.

It looks like he believes these people are qualified.   

[Amonkey]

greg683x:
"And look, our star player Jaylen, who is also vice president of the players association, has openly said before that he wants to rapidly increase the amount of black coaches in the league regardless of whether they’re the most qualified or not. "

Frightening that Jaylen Brown would say something that stupid. In other words, getting more black faces on the sidelines is the priority above everything else, even if your team suffers the consequences of mediocre to poor coaching if, in fact, a team hires a lesser coach because of their skin color over a more accomplished candidate who is white. Brown is campaigning for affirmative action, which is an insult to blacks, at one of the highest levels of sport. The franchise should not be held hostage because one player would be unhappy if we fired an inferior coach because he is black. That's just crazy, but I could see Brad and Wyc doing it.

I have wondered all season what the players really think about Joe and his coaching. They have to have seen the difference in how they are playing now as opposed to last year. Joe's emphasis on offense and poor shot selection plays right into this team's worst tendencies. Both Tatum and Brown independently commented on our bad shot selection and over-reliance on 3's after they watched a game from home when they were injured. Several players made statements about their focus on playing strong defense in game 2 vs Philly and how important it was in the win.

What was JB's specific quote regarding black coaches?

Didn't have time to read the whole thing...but from my skim of the initial thrust, i think you need to read btwn the lines to attribute those exact feelings to JB.
It does read like he is playing both sides of the coin a bit...he can be a confusing speaker.

https://andscape.com/features/jaylen-brown-on-why-its-important-for-celtics-and-nba-to-hire-african-american-head-coaches/

They deserve to have a seat at the table too, especially in coaching positions, as well as in-office positions, ownership positions. Those are important as well, especially if they’re qualified.

It looks like he believes these people are qualified.

That really changes the context of the conversation. On one hand, I see giving opportunities to become assistant coaches without having the full qualification if the person has the attributes to becoming a coach. I see it as drafting an inexperienced development young player like it's been done in many years. It doesn't mean you put them in as a starter right away. You go and put them overseas or in the G-League, let him develop his game a bit and see what you have. In coaching, it would be like coaching summer league and running some practices or offseason workouts.

You don't want to put coaches in there mainly due to race. That wouldn't bode well for anybody because if the coach is not talented or doesn't know what he's doing, the players will see through that and race won't matter in that debate.

[ozgod]

You can't even make this stuff up.

The layups were nice, but they did get the Celtics away from what they do best. They took 26 3-pointers, their second-lowest total over the last two years. “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team," Mazzulla said.

We lost last night because...  we didn't shoot enough threes! 

Not the 16 turnovers, not the atrocious defense.  In spite of the 58.7% shooting and easy layups, it's the lack of threes that cost us the game.

I swear, if I was Wyc I'd fire him today.

I'm reading this quote now, I'm starting to think this got taken out of context. I notice that the only quoted part attributed to Joe was “I don’t think 26 3s is a recipe for our success as a team." The first part seems to be actually Adam Himmelsbach's opinion (who tweeted that).

I just watched the post game of game 1, and noticed he used this same phrase and when he said that he didn't talk anything about layups, it was in the context that he was being asked on what should be emphasized to break the zone. The person asking the question seemed to be making allusions teams usually try to shoot over the zone (and that we should involve getting the ball into the middle more), and Joe countered with the quote above and that they should focus on staying in space and making quick decisions.

So I figure it was in the context of how to attack the zone defense and the understanding that the statement of shooting over the zone was not accurate on how the Celtics played given that they shot few 3s and it seemed to be used as an observation for lack of spacing.

He made other comments.  Reggie Miller said that Joe said the team should have been shooting twice as many threes as they did in Game 1.

Joe was specifically asked by someone (it sounds like Gary Washburn's voice) about the volume of threes this game vs last game and this is what he had to say. I also linked the Youtube video to that exact exchange so people don't have to listen to the whole presser.

Q: Joe, what have the last 14 hours been like for your team?
Joe: Angry, p---ed.
Q: Did you like that, did you like...
Joe: Yes.
Q: ...like what was going on with the last couple of...
Joe: Yes.
Q: Secondly, you don't smile much but you got to be happy with taking twice as many threes tonight as you did in Game 1.
Joe: By the middle of the third quarter, we’d shot more 3s than we did the entire game [before].
Q: Are you pleased with that?
Joe: I was pleased with the type of 3s that we take. Again, I don’t want to just come down and jack them up there for the sake of jacking them up there. I thought our defense led to energetic offense and I thought we did a great job of not passing up open ones and we still got good looks at the rim and so we just have to continue to find that balance of finding two on ones, finding the right time to shoot it...I thought the game was connected. We also only turned it over 7 times for 5 points and so...usually when you shoot open ones you have less tendency to turn it over, because defenses get better later in the shot clock and so we just managed the game well...our defensive presence led to our offense, a good offense led to our defense.

https://youtu.be/ozr8YLr8jks?t=134

[Vermont Green]

Joe: I was pleased with the type of 3s that we take. Again, I don’t want to just come down and jack them up there for the sake of jacking them up there. I thought our defense led to energetic offense and I thought we did a great job of not passing up open ones and we still got good looks at the rim and so we just have to continue to find that balance of finding two on ones, finding the right time to shoot it...I thought the game was connected. We also only turned it over 7 times for 5 points and so...usually when you shoot open ones you have less tendency to turn it over, because defenses get better later in the shot clock and so we just managed the game well...our defensive presence led to our offense, a good offense led to our defense.

This is a lot to unpack but it is all right in this paragraph.  He isn't saying he wants the team to jack up 3s just for the sake of jacking up 3s.  He liked the types of 3s they were able to get in game 2 vs. game 1.  This is very clear and very reasonable (and very different than the words some are trying to put in Joe's mouth).

Then he said that he felt the better defense let to "energetic offense".  Anyone disagree with that?  Anyone have a problem with that?  Of course not.

Then he said more or less what I have been saying, that part of the reason there were less turnovers was that they took the 3s when they were there over forcing it to the hoop.  Find the balance, go to the hoop when you can do it without turning it over, take the 3 when it is there.  This is all pretty obvious basketball.

Can we consider this resolved?  That Joe never said "take more 3s, defense doesn't matter".  Do people accept his clarification?  That it was always about defense and turnovers?

[Neurotic Guy]

Joe just called himself the worst coach ever. Prescience or sarcasm?

Celtics head coach Joe Mazzulla has been keeping tabs on all of the criticism lobbed his way this season.

Following Boston’s blowout win over the 76ers in Game 2 on Wednesday, Mazzulla closed out his press conference by inquiring about the lack of questions related to his adjustments against Philly.

“Nobody wants to ask about all the adjustments we made from Game 1 to Game 2?” Mazzulla said sarcastically.

Joe Mazzulla drops the mic to end his press conference.

"What, no one wants to ask about the adjustments we made from game one to game two?"

📹: @NCoitABC6 @ABC6 #BleedGreen #JohnstonJoe #NBA #NBAPlayoffs @HendrickenHawks @HendrickenHawks pic.twitter.com/a6YU2cPVK1

— Ian Steele (@IanSteeleABC6) May 4, 2023

Less than 24 hours after dropping the mic, Mazzulla was at it again with another closing statement following a Zoom conference with the media.

“I am the worst coach ever,” Mazzulla could be heard saying as he made his way off-camera on Thursday afternoon.

Joe Mazzulla wrapping his presser today: “I am the worst coach ever.”https://t.co/VEIOBVqdOl pic.twitter.com/xMdbvrWqqu

— Bobby Manning (@RealBobManning) May 4, 2023

Mazzulla has been a target of criticism this season when things have gone south for the Celtics. Granted, the first-year head coach has raised eyebrows at various points this year with his timeout decisions and late-game rotations.

But some of those faults are due to a lack of execution on the court, rather than miscues made by the 34-year-old Mazzulla.

After a disheartening Game 1 loss to the Sixers, Mazzulla and the Celtics orchestrated a 34-point victory over Philadelphia in Game 2 on Wednesday night.

While Mazzulla didn’t field any questions about the in-game tweaks made between Games 1 and 2 on Wednesday night, he elaborated a bit more on Thursday about the Celtics’ refined approach entering Boston’s lopsided victory.

“I thought the first adjustment we made was our mindset and our physicality — which I thought we just brought a different level of both of those things to the beginning of the game … and we sustained it throughout the entire game, which is something that we definitely talked about,” Mazzulla said Thursday, per CLNS Media. “I thought we did a better job in our shift activity, presenting help and getting out to shooters, doing both, not giving up a ton of catch-and-shoot threes.

“And I just thought we managed the game really well. Our half-court defense led to our offense, and then our offensive decision-making led to our ability to get back into defense. So we’ve continued to do those things. And then obviously, our guys are really good at communicating matchups and giving [James] Harden and [Joel] Embiid different looks.”

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/05/04/joe-mazzulla-criticism-coach-celtics-philadelphia-76ers/?p1=hp_secondary

While I applaud Joe that he finally finished out that he has figured out that adjustments can be made between games, it would be fantastic if someone told him they he can make them during a game.
As I’ve said before, I like the guy, but he needs to get better if he wants to stay. I don’t think it’s a good look for him to be so defensive. Criticism is part of being a coach, or a player in pro sports. He better grow a thicker skin

Agreed. It’s not that some never grow out of it, but it’s a sign of coaching/spotlight immaturity to get defensive and throw out passive-aggressive remarks.  Not a great look for him and not encouraging. But then, he’s a young man and he’ll get better at managing emotions with experience.  Glad he was mad about the loss and glad he is emphasizing defense.

[gouki88]

I wasn't aware that he still chokes women. I thought he did that once. I guess I'm the idiot for not knowing this.

Joe is a rookie NBA head coach. I see no reason to try to compare him to guys that have been coaching for much longer.

Why should a championship contender settle for a poor coach just because he's a rookie?  Also, roomie coach Ime wasn't nearly this bad.

And, violent abusers don't get much forgiveness from me.  It's a sign he's a coward.

No arguments from me on abusing women. I guess its a semantics thing- I thought you were saying that he actively chokes women.

Eh, Udoka was heavily criticized when the results weren't good. I'm not sure what you want Brad to do at this point. Fire him during the Philly series?

I'm ok if they want to bring in a more experienced coach next year. Until then, I'm going to root for Joe during this playoff run.

I'm rooting for him, in the sense that he fumbles his way too a title.

But, I'd love to see the team fire him, even if he wins a title.  I just don't think you will ever be a good coach.  I don't think the team will do that, but barring that, I'd like to see the team bring in some top notch assistants.  Give me Vogel, Silas and Larranaga.

It would take a special kind of terrible behaviour to get fired in the off-season after you win a title.

Indifferent to Mazulla but this thread is an absolute bin fire.

Yeah, we would need to wait at least a season and then he could join the plethora of other championship coaches who get dumped.

[greg683x]

Great win. Gos Cs.  Best coach ever.  Let’s all just love each other. Lol

[ozgod]

Great win. Gos Cs.  Best coach ever.  Let’s all just love each other. Lol

At least till the next loss 

But we can enjoy the Kumbaya till then 

[tenn_smoothie]

Joe: I was pleased with the type of 3s that we take. Again, I don’t want to just come down and jack them up there for the sake of jacking them up there. I thought our defense led to energetic offense and I thought we did a great job of not passing up open ones and we still got good looks at the rim and so we just have to continue to find that balance of finding two on ones, finding the right time to shoot it...I thought the game was connected. We also only turned it over 7 times for 5 points and so...usually when you shoot open ones you have less tendency to turn it over, because defenses get better later in the shot clock and so we just managed the game well...our defensive presence led to our offense, a good offense led to our defense.

This is a lot to unpack but it is all right in this paragraph.  He isn't saying he wants the team to jack up 3s just for the sake of jacking up 3s.  He liked the types of 3s they were able to get in game 2 vs. game 1.  This is very clear and very reasonable (and very different than the words some are trying to put in Joe's mouth).

Woah. Nobody's putting words in his mouth. Joe has been making dumb comments all year. Comments that, along with the way the team plays, are indicative of a coach who is clueless.

I think it was one of the Hawks games after the 1st quarter, he said during the sideline interview in response to a question about how to reduce turnovers, "I like our pace, so we'll just keep that going." Huh ?

He has made constant comments during the season about the importance of not just making 3's, but about "3-point shooting rate" being the most important stat in basketball. His only criticism of the team after bad losses has often been, "we needed to shoot more 3's."

Don't bet me started about in-game coaching, stubborn with his timeouts when they are clearly needed, no changes or adjustments that are obvious even to fans, the Deer in Headlights look on the sideline.

Fans did not invent these, Joe said them and often doubled down when questioned about them.

Having said all that, the comments quoted above sound like a different coach.

[tenn_smoothie]

greg683x:
"And look, our star player Jaylen, who is also vice president of the players association, has openly said before that he wants to rapidly increase the amount of black coaches in the league regardless of whether they’re the most qualified or not. "

Frightening that Jaylen Brown would say something that stupid. In other words, getting more black faces on the sidelines is the priority above everything else, even if your team suffers the consequences of mediocre to poor coaching if, in fact, a team hires a lesser coach because of their skin color over a more accomplished candidate who is white. Brown is campaigning for affirmative action, which is an insult to blacks, at one of the highest levels of sport. The franchise should not be held hostage because one player would be unhappy if we fired an inferior coach because he is black. That's just crazy, but I could see Brad and Wyc doing it.

I have wondered all season what the players really think about Joe and his coaching. They have to have seen the difference in how they are playing now as opposed to last year. Joe's emphasis on offense and poor shot selection plays right into this team's worst tendencies. Both Tatum and Brown independently commented on our bad shot selection and over-reliance on 3's after they watched a game from home when they were injured. Several players made statements about their focus on playing strong defense in game 2 vs Philly and how important it was in the win.

What was JB's specific quote regarding black coaches?

Didn't have time to read the whole thing...but from my skim of the initial thrust, i think you need to read btwn the lines to attribute those exact feelings to JB.
It does read like he is playing both sides of the coin a bit...he can be a confusing speaker.

https://andscape.com/features/jaylen-brown-on-why-its-important-for-celtics-and-nba-to-hire-african-american-head-coaches/

Thanks for posting - It's important to make sure we aren't misrepresenting what they say.

It's important to not give condescending responses to valid points.

I am very much hoping Jaylen was misquoted or misunderstood.

[aefgogreen]

greg683x:
"And look, our star player Jaylen, who is also vice president of the players association, has openly said before that he wants to rapidly increase the amount of black coaches in the league regardless of whether they’re the most qualified or not. "

Frightening that Jaylen Brown would say something that stupid. In other words, getting more black faces on the sidelines is the priority above everything else, even if your team suffers the consequences of mediocre to poor coaching if, in fact, a team hires a lesser coach because of their skin color over a more accomplished candidate who is white. Brown is campaigning for affirmative action, which is an insult to blacks, at one of the highest levels of sport. The franchise should not be held hostage because one player would be unhappy if we fired an inferior coach because he is black. That's just crazy, but I could see Brad and Wyc doing it.

I have wondered all season what the players really think about Joe and his coaching. They have to have seen the difference in how they are playing now as opposed to last year. Joe's emphasis on offense and poor shot selection plays right into this team's worst tendencies. Both Tatum and Brown independently commented on our bad shot selection and over-reliance on 3's after they watched a game from home when they were injured. Several players made statements about their focus on playing strong defense in game 2 vs Philly and how important it was in the win.

What was JB's specific quote regarding black coaches?

Didn't have time to read the whole thing...but from my skim of the initial thrust, i think you need to read btwn the lines to attribute those exact feelings to JB.
It does read like he is playing both sides of the coin a bit...he can be a confusing speaker.

https://andscape.com/features/jaylen-brown-on-why-its-important-for-celtics-and-nba-to-hire-african-american-head-coaches/

Thanks for posting - It's important to make sure we aren't misrepresenting what they say.

It's important to not give condescending responses to valid points.

I am very much hoping Jaylen was misquoted or misunderstood.

Was the quote that was put up the one you were referring too or was there a different one?

[SparzWizard]

Why is this guy even coaching. Terrible execution down the stretch.

[Phantom255x]

He claims he doesn't call timeouts so the opposing defense doesn't get set, YET our own offense also looks like it has no clue what to do and is running around frantically. In OT, they ran that play too long and it's a late shot. SMH

[gouki88]

Joe is a complete ****ing clown. Totally out of his depth. His whole time-out philosophy is to ensure he has enough for close end of game sequences, right? Like a 1 point deficit with 20 seconds to go?

He’s at best in the bottom third of coaches in the league. And our F/O committed to him prematurely, with Nick Nurse hitting the open market. Excellent!

At least we’ve got some more passive aggressive bitterness to look forward to when the players will their way to victory in spite of his poor coaching. Who doesn’t love a coach acting like a 13 year-old?

He’s a complete amateur. We’ve given Philly life on multiple occasions now, and frankly would be served our comeuppance if we lose the series.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

FIRE THIS CLOWN NOW

NO THREES- ALLOWS 3

CALL TO FOR LAST SHOT-CALLS NO TO AND DUMB PLAYERS CANNOT EVEN GET OFF A SHOT