Author Topic: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC  (Read 15768 times)

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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2010, 01:03:14 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Well, I think the success on the basketball court matched or exceeded the talent level. The problem is that the talent level hasn't really hit the point where it needs to be.

They are an ACC school and I'd be shocked if I saw a McD's all american had committed to BC. Finding Dudley, Smith, and Rice was awesome, but recruiting does need to get better.

Absolutely.  But unlike the NBA, the talent in college is brought in by the coaches.  Maybe the team might tie their hands a bit, but if coach K can put contenders on the floor year after year at Duke, then the right coach could bring in blue chippers to BC. 

The right coach would but I think it has to be a big name.  The problem is that BC isn't going to hire an established name as Skinner's replacement.  Its almost certain to be an "up & comer" and that will come on the relative "cheap".  The program isn't going to break the bank for a big name, IMO.

I am sure you are right.  But it doesn't mean keeping a guy who has been solid but mediocre for 12 years around longer makes sense.

Here's the thing.  I think they should've let him ride it out at least one more year.  This is an upperclassmen-laden team that should be pretty competitive next season.

They are only 2 seasons removed from an NCAA tournament appearance.  The guy has 7 NCAA appearances under his belt since he arrived at BC.  That's unprecedented for this program. 

There hasn't been any Final Fours or Elite 8s but the program has been fairly consistent over the past 13 years.  They joined the ACC and Skinner had them competitive right away which many people had doubted their ability to be.

If they didn't make the tournament next year, then I'd look into replacing him.  Overall, his tenure at BC is better than mediocre and I just think he should've been extended a little more leniency here. 


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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2010, 01:25:07 PM »

Offline jgod213

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Well, I think the success on the basketball court matched or exceeded the talent level. The problem is that the talent level hasn't really hit the point where it needs to be.

They are an ACC school and I'd be shocked if I saw a McD's all american had committed to BC. Finding Dudley, Smith, and Rice was awesome, but recruiting does need to get better.

Absolutely.  But unlike the NBA, the talent in college is brought in by the coaches.  Maybe the team might tie their hands a bit, but if coach K can put contenders on the floor year after year at Duke, then the right coach could bring in blue chippers to BC. 

The right coach would but I think it has to be a big name.  The problem is that BC isn't going to hire an established name as Skinner's replacement.  Its almost certain to be an "up & comer" and that will come on the relative "cheap".  The program isn't going to break the bank for a big name, IMO.

I am sure you are right.  But it doesn't mean keeping a guy who has been solid but mediocre for 12 years around longer makes sense.

Here's the thing.  I think they should've let him ride it out at least one more year.  This is an upperclassmen-laden team that should be pretty competitive next season.

They are only 2 seasons removed from an NCAA tournament appearance.  The guy has 7 NCAA appearances under his belt since he arrived at BC.  That's unprecedented for this program. 

There hasn't been any Final Fours or Elite 8s but the program has been fairly consistent over the past 13 years.  They joined the ACC and Skinner had them competitive right away which many people had doubted their ability to be.

If they didn't make the tournament next year, then I'd look into replacing him.  Overall, his tenure at BC is better than mediocre and I just think he should've been extended a little more leniency here. 

Isn't 12 years enough of a sample size? you either want him here or you want to move on, i don't think year 13 is the critical season that we use to ultimately judge the merits of Al Skinner.

I agree with you that it would be tough to pull a big name coach to BC, but i don't think it's impossible and it certainly should be looked into.  Any team that can say it plays in the ACC is an attractive destination for many many coaches.  Bruce Pearl's name has been thrown around.

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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2010, 01:42:54 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Well, I think the success on the basketball court matched or exceeded the talent level. The problem is that the talent level hasn't really hit the point where it needs to be.

They are an ACC school and I'd be shocked if I saw a McD's all american had committed to BC. Finding Dudley, Smith, and Rice was awesome, but recruiting does need to get better.

Absolutely.  But unlike the NBA, the talent in college is brought in by the coaches.  Maybe the team might tie their hands a bit, but if coach K can put contenders on the floor year after year at Duke, then the right coach could bring in blue chippers to BC. 

The right coach would but I think it has to be a big name.  The problem is that BC isn't going to hire an established name as Skinner's replacement.  Its almost certain to be an "up & comer" and that will come on the relative "cheap".  The program isn't going to break the bank for a big name, IMO.

I am sure you are right.  But it doesn't mean keeping a guy who has been solid but mediocre for 12 years around longer makes sense.

Here's the thing.  I think they should've let him ride it out at least one more year.  This is an upperclassmen-laden team that should be pretty competitive next season.

They are only 2 seasons removed from an NCAA tournament appearance.  The guy has 7 NCAA appearances under his belt since he arrived at BC.  That's unprecedented for this program. 

There hasn't been any Final Fours or Elite 8s but the program has been fairly consistent over the past 13 years.  They joined the ACC and Skinner had them competitive right away which many people had doubted their ability to be.

If they didn't make the tournament next year, then I'd look into replacing him.  Overall, his tenure at BC is better than mediocre and I just think he should've been extended a little more leniency here. 

Isn't 12 years enough of a sample size? you either want him here or you want to move on, i don't think year 13 is the critical season that we use to ultimately judge the merits of Al Skinner.

I agree with you that it would be tough to pull a big name coach to BC, but i don't think it's impossible and it certainly should be looked into.  Any team that can say it plays in the ACC is an attractive destination for many many coaches.  Bruce Pearl's name has been thrown around.

Well, then 7 NCAAs and 1 NIT in 12 years is a pretty good sample especially when you consider the history of the program before that.  This isn't just about next year but I do feel that he should've gotten another shot with those kids.  If he failed next year, then I think the murmurings of firing the guy would be a lot more merited.  Think it takes more than the most recent down year, IMO.  Like I mentioned earlier, I would've liked to have seen him get cut a little more slack. 


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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2010, 02:00:55 PM »

Offline jdpapa3

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I agree that firing in THIS particular offseason may have been a bad move when you consider the makeup of the roster. Unless they have a feasibly attainable big name in mind, it could really screw up the team's success(even if it's mild) in the short term.

Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2010, 02:16:11 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I am a BC alum and a long time eagles fan, here is my perspective on the Skinner firing.

Al Skinner in the past ran a great flex system because he could get undersized 4's and tweener 3-4's to come to his school. The flex is perfect for players like Danye Abrams and Craig Smith (big guys who can finish in around the hoop but would have problems getting their shots off one on one against a bigger players in the post) who would catch the other teams in switches and dominate the smaller defenders on them.

These burly 3/4 combos had been a staple of the Skinner days. However, recently Skinner has not been able to get these types of players and the team has suffered with his system for it.

I disagree that this move would be better made next year. They are much more likely to sign a good coach when he inherits a senior laiden athletic team. If Skinner was fired after next year the new coach would probably have to recruit and start a bunch of freshman. This team was not a fit for a flex team, a new coach could come in insitute their system with good players and use that to build on.

I loved Skinner but it was time for a change much in the same way it was time for Tom O'Brien to go. The team had plateaued under him and wasn't getting any better.

The problem with making the move now could cause a number of decent recruits bc signed to change their minds and maybe some of their good players to transfer. If this happens then I immediately change my opinion and wish Skinner had stayed.
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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2010, 02:36:29 PM »

Offline CoachCowens

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With the exception of BC hockey, I don't think BC sports are a "destination" program for ambitious coaches.  In the cases of football and basketball, its a "stepping stone" for coaches.  I know that may rub some BC fans the wrong way but its pretty much the reality of things.  You don't see coaches leaving big time college programs to come to BC.  Part of the problem is that BC is in a professional sports town and college sports will always be second-tier in that town.  The allure just isn't there and you can argue that the budget isn't, either.

TP, Exactly. The best they can hope is to get another Skinner type.   

Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2010, 02:59:09 PM »

Offline jgod213

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I loved Skinner but it was time for a change much in the same way it was time for Tom O'Brien to go. The team had plateaued under him and wasn't getting any better.

Well put.  I don't think that Al Skinner isn't a great coach, i just don't think that things were going to progress for the rest of his run here.  Any team that plays in the ACC should have an imposing home court advantage - particularly when they have very little competition (besides UConn) in New England in terms of college basketball.  This is just not the case in Conte Forum.  The program needs someone to engage the student body and local basketball fans in general in a more vocal and recognizable way then Skinner.  Could it backfire? sure, but if you find the right guy you can move the program to the next level.

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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2010, 03:37:20 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5041205

Lavin succeeds Roberts at St. John's

St. John's has hired ESPN analyst and former UCLA coach Steve Lavin to succeed Norm Roberts, a school spokesman said Tuesday.

Lavin has been with ESPN the past six years after being fired at UCLA in 2003. He coached the Bruins to the NCAA tournament six times in seven seasons, including one Elite Eight appearance and five trips to the Sweet 16. He inherits a team that could return 10 seniors for 2010-11.

St. John's has been searching for a big-name hire to increase the team's profile in the New York media market. The university made an overture to Florida's Billy Donovan and a formal offer to Georgia Tech's Paul Hewitt, who declined.

The Red Storm also interviewed former Boston college coach Al Skinner and former Siena coach Fran McCaffery, who took the Iowa job, and were interested in talking to Rhode Island's Jim Baron.

St. John's hasn't been to the NCAA tournament since 2002. The Red Storm has appeared in the NIT twice since that appearance, including earlier this month under Roberts.

This season, St. John's finished 17-16 overall and 6-12 in the Big East. After knocking off UConn and nearly upsetting Marquette in the Big East tournament, the Red Storm lost in the first round of the NIT at Memphis.

Coincidentally, the Red Storm has a home-and-home series signed for next season against UCLA, Lavin's former team.


Well we know Skinner and Baron won't be coaching at St. John's now.
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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2010, 04:48:42 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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A very well written article I believe on BC firing Skinner from the Globe.

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/gasper/2010/03/bc_out_of_place.html
BC out of place replacing Skinner

Mutual or not, Boston College's parting of ways with coach Al Skinner is a classic case of a college that doesn't know or understand its place in the hierarchy of big-time college hoops, an affliction that can also be described as UMass-itis.

The Eagles want someone sexier than Skinner -- on and off the court. Someone who is going to "sell" BC basketball. But what exactly is this new coach proselytizing?

It's not tradition -- Butler and George Mason have been to more Final Fours than BC. It's not fan interest -- Conte Forum will never be confused with Rupp Arena. It's not a superior education to every school in the Atlantic Coast Conference -- Duke is at the head of the class.

BC is not Duke. The Blue Devils are roundball royalty. BC is part of the proletariat. The Eagles program can experience intermittent periods of excellence and national competitiveness when they have the right coach, a few recruiting coups, and the stars align.

That happened in 2005-06, BC's inaugural ACC season, when Skinner led BC to the Sweet 16 and a school-record 28 victories with future NBAers Craig Smith and Jared Dudley. It happened in 1994 under Jim O'Brien, another loyal and successful coach run off by BC, who took the Eagles to the Elite Eight with Howard Eisley and Danya Abrams.

If you're BC and you push out the all-time winningest coach in the history of your program, the man who resurrected your program out of the shambles of the O'Brien admissions imbroglio, a coach who took you to the NCAA tournament seven times last decade and won 60 percent of his games, then you've either identified the next John Wooden or you're completely delusional about the potential of your program.

(A tip of the cap to BC, however, for holding off on the announcement long enough to let Skinner seek the St. John's job with some leverage.)

Look, last season wasn't fun for anyone associated with BC basketball, but a program of this ilk is going to have seasons like that in the ACC. It is inevitable and even acceptable if you understand your place in the cabal known as the NCAA.

A year removed from 22 wins, the Eagles limped to a 15-16 mark. The talent cupboard definitely looked a little bare without 2008-09 All-ACC guard Tyrese Rice, and it's fair to say that Skinner hasn't recruited as well since trusted assistant Bill Coen went across town to take over at Northeastern.

But even basketball bluebloods like North Carolina and iconic coaches like Roy Williams stumble once in a while. A year removed from winning a national title and with Tyler Hansbrough and Ty Lawson now playing in the pros, the Tar Heels tumbled to a 16-16 regular-season mark and a 5-11 ACC record. The Eagles actually finished a game better than UNC, which they beat during the season, in the ACC standings.

UNC got an invitation to the NIT because it's UNC. BC got to watch the NIT on TV because it's BC.

BC's administration and imperious athletic director Gene DeFilippo felt they could do better than Skinner. DeFilippo has put his stamp on BC athletics since taking over as AD in 1997, but one area he hasn't been able to do that is men's basketball. Skinner was hired five months before DeFilippo became the school's athletic director in 1997.

Some of the names reported to be potential successors to Skinner are intriguing. The Eagles have asked for permission to speak with Cornell coach Steve Donahue, who led the Big Red to its third straight Ivy League crown and first ever Sweet 16 appearance this season, and Richmond's Chris Mooney, who played at Princeton and employs the Princeton offense at Richmond, which won a share of the regular-season Atlantic 10 title.

But if the message is that what Skinner did in his 13 seasons, which included three regular-season Big East crowns, is not good enough, then BC is a no-win situation.

It's one thing to turn around a program in the Ivy League or the A-10. It's quite another to be expected to lift the one at The Heights to the apex of the ACC, especially when it is at a distinct geographical and talent-base disadvantage.

Unlike Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Maryland, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, BC is not going to be enticing highly rated recruits with tradition and NBA opportunity. The BC administration is never going to allow a coach to recruit one-and-dones like Kentucky's John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins. Good for them. 

Even Virginia, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Miami and Florida State have an advantage over BC because they can attempt to draw on fertile basketball talent in their backyards. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but from a Division 1 talent standpoint the state is an airball.

This lack of homegrown talent can't be underestimated. There are institutions of higher learning like BC that have honest to goodness student-athletes and either are or have been successful -- Duke, Stanford (with former coach Mike Montgomery), Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Villanova -- but all either have a warmer-weather campus, tradition, or tremendous local talent bases, with 'Nova (Philadelphia-New Jersey) and Georgetown (Baltimore-Washington) benefiting from the latter.

BC has none of those.

That's why the BC job has always been and will always remain a steppingstone to something better for the type of charismatic, capable, slick bench boss the Eagles now desire.

One reason that Skinner is BC's all-time winningest coach is that the other esteemed coaches in BC history didn't stay long enough to compile 247 wins.

The late Chuck Daly, Dr. Tom Davis, Gary Williams, all once coached at BC. None stuck around.

Skinner did because, unlike his ex-employer, he recognized his place.
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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2010, 05:05:57 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I don't see why academics is being mentioned as a hindrance for BC. Let's not exaggerate where they stand on the totem pole of strong universities.

Sometimes, players just aren't interested in schools. Sometimes they just aren't interested in certain coaches. There are a lot of schools out their trying to win.

I just hope St Johns can turn it around. It is tough remaining loyal to them. They have been a joke.

Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2010, 05:23:41 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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A very well written article I believe on BC firing Skinner from the Globe.

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/gasper/2010/03/bc_out_of_place.html
BC out of place replacing Skinner

Mutual or not, Boston College's parting of ways with coach Al Skinner is a classic case of a college that doesn't know or understand its place in the hierarchy of big-time college hoops, an affliction that can also be described as UMass-itis.

The Eagles want someone sexier than Skinner -- on and off the court. Someone who is going to "sell" BC basketball. But what exactly is this new coach proselytizing?

It's not tradition -- Butler and George Mason have been to more Final Fours than BC. It's not fan interest -- Conte Forum will never be confused with Rupp Arena. It's not a superior education to every school in the Atlantic Coast Conference -- Duke is at the head of the class.

BC is not Duke. The Blue Devils are roundball royalty. BC is part of the proletariat. The Eagles program can experience intermittent periods of excellence and national competitiveness when they have the right coach, a few recruiting coups, and the stars align.

That happened in 2005-06, BC's inaugural ACC season, when Skinner led BC to the Sweet 16 and a school-record 28 victories with future NBAers Craig Smith and Jared Dudley. It happened in 1994 under Jim O'Brien, another loyal and successful coach run off by BC, who took the Eagles to the Elite Eight with Howard Eisley and Danya Abrams.

If you're BC and you push out the all-time winningest coach in the history of your program, the man who resurrected your program out of the shambles of the O'Brien admissions imbroglio, a coach who took you to the NCAA tournament seven times last decade and won 60 percent of his games, then you've either identified the next John Wooden or you're completely delusional about the potential of your program.

(A tip of the cap to BC, however, for holding off on the announcement long enough to let Skinner seek the St. John's job with some leverage.)

Look, last season wasn't fun for anyone associated with BC basketball, but a program of this ilk is going to have seasons like that in the ACC. It is inevitable and even acceptable if you understand your place in the cabal known as the NCAA.

A year removed from 22 wins, the Eagles limped to a 15-16 mark. The talent cupboard definitely looked a little bare without 2008-09 All-ACC guard Tyrese Rice, and it's fair to say that Skinner hasn't recruited as well since trusted assistant Bill Coen went across town to take over at Northeastern.

But even basketball bluebloods like North Carolina and iconic coaches like Roy Williams stumble once in a while. A year removed from winning a national title and with Tyler Hansbrough and Ty Lawson now playing in the pros, the Tar Heels tumbled to a 16-16 regular-season mark and a 5-11 ACC record. The Eagles actually finished a game better than UNC, which they beat during the season, in the ACC standings.

UNC got an invitation to the NIT because it's UNC. BC got to watch the NIT on TV because it's BC.

BC's administration and imperious athletic director Gene DeFilippo felt they could do better than Skinner. DeFilippo has put his stamp on BC athletics since taking over as AD in 1997, but one area he hasn't been able to do that is men's basketball. Skinner was hired five months before DeFilippo became the school's athletic director in 1997.

Some of the names reported to be potential successors to Skinner are intriguing. The Eagles have asked for permission to speak with Cornell coach Steve Donahue, who led the Big Red to its third straight Ivy League crown and first ever Sweet 16 appearance this season, and Richmond's Chris Mooney, who played at Princeton and employs the Princeton offense at Richmond, which won a share of the regular-season Atlantic 10 title.

But if the message is that what Skinner did in his 13 seasons, which included three regular-season Big East crowns, is not good enough, then BC is a no-win situation.

It's one thing to turn around a program in the Ivy League or the A-10. It's quite another to be expected to lift the one at The Heights to the apex of the ACC, especially when it is at a distinct geographical and talent-base disadvantage.

Unlike Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Maryland, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, BC is not going to be enticing highly rated recruits with tradition and NBA opportunity. The BC administration is never going to allow a coach to recruit one-and-dones like Kentucky's John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins. Good for them. 

Even Virginia, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Miami and Florida State have an advantage over BC because they can attempt to draw on fertile basketball talent in their backyards. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but from a Division 1 talent standpoint the state is an airball.

This lack of homegrown talent can't be underestimated. There are institutions of higher learning like BC that have honest to goodness student-athletes and either are or have been successful -- Duke, Stanford (with former coach Mike Montgomery), Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Villanova -- but all either have a warmer-weather campus, tradition, or tremendous local talent bases, with 'Nova (Philadelphia-New Jersey) and Georgetown (Baltimore-Washington) benefiting from the latter.

BC has none of those.

That's why the BC job has always been and will always remain a steppingstone to something better for the type of charismatic, capable, slick bench boss the Eagles now desire.

One reason that Skinner is BC's all-time winningest coach is that the other esteemed coaches in BC history didn't stay long enough to compile 247 wins.

The late Chuck Daly, Dr. Tom Davis, Gary Williams, all once coached at BC. None stuck around.

Skinner did because, unlike his ex-employer, he recognized his place.


Have to say that I tend to agree with this.  I think Gasper did a pretty good job summing up the way I feel about this whole thing.


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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2010, 05:40:41 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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Bob Ryan on PTI says it was necessary that BC fire Al Skinner and that the program if they kept Skinner will stay in mediocrity and not improve.

Don't agree with Bob at all.  Like the article I posted, I believe that BC doesn't know it's place in college basketball.
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Re: Skinner possibly on his way out at BC
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2010, 05:46:11 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Bob Ryan on PTI says it was necessary that BC fire Al Skinner and that the program if they kept Skinner will stay in mediocrity and not improve.

Don't agree with Bob at all.  Like the article I posted, I believe that BC doesn't know it's place in college basketball.

If a program is lingering in mediocrity and not improving, I can certainly see it for being grounds for termination of the coach.

However, in this situation, I'm not sold on the timing of this and happen to think some other things were at the root of it. 


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