Author Topic: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups  (Read 31409 times)

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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #75 on: May 31, 2008, 11:02:23 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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Boston hasn't played teams that can shoot the 3?

Cleveland has Wally, Delonte West, Boobie Gibson, Damon Jones and even Lebron can hit them.
Detroit has Rip, Billups and Sheed.

Well, it's not a matter of shooting 3s; it's a matter of making them.  Detroit, Cleveland, and Atlanta aren't among the better 3pt shooting teams in the league; they're in the middle.  It isn't a weakness but it is not their strength.   

Detroit and Cleveland shot a similar percentage to the Lakers (Cavs were 2% worse, Detroit about .75 of a percent worse). Don't see the Lakers being drastically better than either team.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #76 on: May 31, 2008, 11:18:47 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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the player match-ups are not the biggest concern - the Celts are OK there.

it's the coaching match-up where we have the huge disadvantage. i despise Mr. Arrogant, but he'll kill Doc in this series with adjustments and in-game substitutions. Doc, of course, will be coaching by "feel."
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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #77 on: May 31, 2008, 11:21:07 PM »

Online hpantazo

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the player match-ups are not the biggest concern - the Celts are OK there.

it's the coaching match-up where we have the huge disadvantage. i despise Mr. Arrogant, but he'll kill Doc in this series with adjustments and in-game substitutions. Doc, of course, will be coaching by "feel."

This is where I'm hoping the ghost of Red comes through and whispers vital info into Doc's ear to keep Phil Jackson from further tarnishing Red's legacy.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #78 on: May 31, 2008, 11:47:18 PM »

Offline chibi

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Boston hasn't played teams that can shoot the 3?

Cleveland has Wally, Delonte West, Boobie Gibson, Damon Jones and even Lebron can hit them.
Detroit has Rip, Billups and Sheed.

Well, it's not a matter of shooting 3s; it's a matter of making them.  Detroit, Cleveland, and Atlanta aren't among the better 3pt shooting teams in the league; they're in the middle.  It isn't a weakness but it is not their strength.   

Detroit and Cleveland shot a similar percentage to the Lakers (Cavs were 2% worse, Detroit about .75 of a percent worse). Don't see the Lakers being drastically better than either team.

When the Lakers run the Triangle, you've got Kobe, Radmanovic, and Fisher standing at the 3pt arc on the strong side.  Gasol is in the post.  Do you see how that creates spacing, when you've got 2 starters shooting better than 40% and Kobe shooting 36% from the 3 point line?  Compare that to Cleveland, who features just 1 good 3pt shooter in the starting lineup.  (Lebron is shooting 32%)  The Lakers can maintain that spacing for the entire game because their reserves(Farmar, Vujacic, Walton) are also pretty good 3pt shooters.  Cleveland can't do that; Detroit can't do that.  Even though their is a minimal difference in their percentages, I'm sure you can see why the Lakers are drastically different from both those clubs.  

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #79 on: June 01, 2008, 12:42:08 AM »

Offline Celtics17

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We guarded Lebron and held him to a ridiculously low series fg percentage and I think we will do a similar number on the Kobe. If Kobe were on the Cavs and not the Lakers would we still be in the finals? Yes is my answer. We will hold Kobe to a mortal 25 for at least 2 games and another 2 he will score mid 30's but with 25-30 shots. One game he will go for close to 50 though. Perk will be a bigger factor in this series then most think. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that Perk is one of the best low post defenders in the game and I think he will also put up more points. Gasol is certainly not strong enough to handle Perk in the paint, at least not one on one. Pierce loves competing against Kobe and will do very well, even if the two are not matched up. KG will own Odom, the foreign guy or whoever they put on him and Ray Ray will have a few games where he lights the Lackers up for at least 20. Posey will defend Kobe, Odom and occasionally even Gasol. The national media is crazy for all picking the Lackers (kind of spelled like slackers but with an L) and we win this series in a hard fought battle in 7 in Boston. Go Celtics.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #80 on: June 01, 2008, 01:05:46 AM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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Man, our frontcourt should demolish theirs from points in the paint to rebounds. Gasol has always seemed to be a pretty inconsistent rebounder, and far from being an elite one. Perk should be able to body him fairly well and help keep his rebound numbers down to 6-10 a game. Then Odom on Garnett isn't even fair and I won't even go there.

Yea, they do have Kobe who's the best player on both teams but after that it's Garnett, Pierce, Allen, and then Gasol in that order. So while Kobe's gonna get his, like usual I fully expect Paul Pierce to get his as well, and I would FAR from shocked if we saw multiple 40 point games from both Pierce and Kobe.

Then talk about a terrible bench, man... Maybe I'm underrating them but come on... Turiaf? Walton? Sasha Vujacic? What a joke. If we get Sam Cassell a Ray Allen arm sleeve then it's really not even fair.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2008, 03:48:39 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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no i gotta give credit where credit is due. their bench has been more than solid all year for la. i give them that. ours hasnt been any slouch for most of the year but doc appears to be playing it much tighter in the postseason. the fact that la will probably go deeper into their bench to get scoring really isnt an issue for us because i dont think doc is gonna use the bench much anyway. my biggest concern is how doc will make adjustments. a big thing for us will be how perk plays. can he keep gasol off the offensive boards? can he get a few himself? can he force gasol into some tough guarded looks like he did for rasheed? i know la can hit the 3's and all but where they really can cut you to pieces is with their interior passing. the c's have to pack the paint for real on this one and squeeze gasol and odom inside give them nothing but jumpshots. if we can do this i think we have a good shot. but if gasol is getting easy looks at the rim we're boned.
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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2008, 05:24:36 AM »

Offline Bahku

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Most of this will hinge on whether or not they can stop Pierce, how intense we keep our defense, whether Rage can hit his shot, if our bench contributes significantly, if KG and Perk can contain Gasol, and how consistently Kobe can light it up. The main focus/key all revolves around Truth/defense and Kobe/offense ... I personally favor defense.
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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2008, 07:50:28 AM »

Offline celtics2

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There is absolutely no reason we don't beat LA. Defense will just have to be played at an extraordinary pace and skill that the Celts have shown they can do. Allen and Rondo will have to have figured out their problems. It will take a Supreme effort but can be done. Kobe is the best in the NBA by far and he will be on display. At best I give it a 50-50 chance of a Celtic Title. Home court keeps it barely possible.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #84 on: June 01, 2008, 08:14:07 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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the player match-ups are not the biggest concern - the Celts are OK there.

it's the coaching match-up where we have the huge disadvantage. i despise Mr. Arrogant, but he'll kill Doc in this series with adjustments and in-game substitutions. Doc, of course, will be coaching by "feel."

This is where I'm hoping the ghost of Red comes through and whispers vital info into Doc's ear to keep Phil Jackson from further tarnishing Red's legacy.

Doc would ignore it and would just tell the players to "play your game" over and over. ;)

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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #85 on: June 01, 2008, 11:02:49 AM »

Offline Oldschoolkid

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One of the best things we can do is MEKE Kobe play defense, if whoever he covers is on fire, and gets some good screens, Kobe will be sluggish. Having a tough defensive assignment changes your offense. Perk needs to be strong against Gasol, I hope Perk can see those alley-oops coming...they break your will....... KEEP a BODY on him!!! Posey.s "D" will be needed. PJ & Powe can help shut down LA's big men too...My one fear is how bad the C's react to the pic-and-roll, they are always lost........LA is too fast for "who's man is that" All you have to do is prevent the screen from happening, just stand in between your man and the guard as he walks to the key, then roll back down keeping your butt to the hoop....! I also think Eddie H can guard Fisher, and can shoot over him......Sam hasn't scored since.....? Eddie is a better passer and see's the court well, remember that dive...! Hey, Perk has shown some major life, if he can keep doing that....YOW!!!  The C's have really shown some character, heck they beat Detroit and SIX BLIND REFS!!!

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #86 on: June 01, 2008, 09:43:20 PM »

Offline chibi

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The Lakers like to push the tempo, so I'm curious about any observations you guys may have on teams you've played before that play up-tempo basketball.  Do the Celtics tweak their game a little against teams like Phoenix, Golden State, Utah, and Philadelphia?  If so, how so?  What do the Celtics do effectively against these teams?  And do some players play more minutes than others against such teams?  What's the rotation been like? 

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #87 on: June 01, 2008, 10:48:06 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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The Lakers like to push the tempo, so I'm curious about any observations you guys may have on teams you've played before that play up-tempo basketball.  Do the Celtics tweak their game a little against teams like Phoenix, Golden State, Utah, and Philadelphia?  If so, how so?  What do the Celtics do effectively against these teams?  And do some players play more minutes than others against such teams?  What's the rotation been like? 

We did quite well, and the games we lost had very little to do with the tempo as the Celtics can adapt quite easily to any type of tempo. It's all about running back on defense. Sure, some might have had some big games here and there, but for the most part we stopped most of them... plus the focus in the playoffs, defensive wise, rarely waivers.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2008, 10:51:25 PM »

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The Lakers like to push the tempo, so I'm curious about any observations you guys may have on teams you've played before that play up-tempo basketball.  Do the Celtics tweak their game a little against teams like Phoenix, Golden State, Utah, and Philadelphia?  If so, how so?  What do the Celtics do effectively against these teams?  And do some players play more minutes than others against such teams?  What's the rotation been like? 
Celtics are a much superior team when they push the basketball. It's when the C's don't run that they truly get into trouble.

Against previous speedsters teams the C's just run with them or milk the shot clock to slow the pace down. When they take time of the shot clock it nearly always backfires. The offense is based on passing and cutting like the Lakers, so having 14 seconds to work with instead of 19 seconds really limits the passing. A smart double team here or there can really limit the offense in a hurry. Also the point guards don't make nearly as good decisions when they're asked to slow it down.

The C's rebounding gives them a big advantage in being able to control the tempo. Nothing special they change on the backboards. C's like to send 5 men to boards (Rondo is a very good rebounder for his size, Ray is solid too) rather than have someone leak out. They run mostly off of turnovers ..... or quick outlet passes from mainly Perk.

Then there's the Ray Allen factor. Getting out into transition is the best way for the C's to get Ray Allen off. They've found it hard in the playoffs to regularly get Ray good looks in the halfcourt throughout games, an easy two here and there really helps him get his rhythm. Ray's decision making in the open court has fallen back from where it was in Seattle simply because the C's don't run as much as they should do .... so Ray is better as finisher in the open floor nowadays.

As for their track record against quick teams, it's been good. Largely due to their advantages in the paint. They pose some problems but not too many, the biggest is obviously less possessions against the C's halfcourt defense which limits the C's normal advantages. Also gives the opposition a few easier baskets which are hard to come by against Boston.

Utah is the only team with the mixture of the open court game and halfcourt dominance to compare to the Lakers team. They were the one team that was consistently able to create good shooting attemtpts in the halfcourt. Watching the games you legitimately felt that was never going to change no matter how many times the two sides played. The big difference was Deron Williams, he was too good for Rondo and gave their offense so many extra options. So different emphasis of attack which hurts the comparison. The Jazz's ability to move without the ball off the help defense and get shots close to the rim was a pain in the C's backside. That's something LA can do but sometimes get caught falling in love with their three pointer.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2008, 11:05:02 PM »

Offline chibi

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The Lakers like to push the tempo, so I'm curious about any observations you guys may have on teams you've played before that play up-tempo basketball.  Do the Celtics tweak their game a little against teams like Phoenix, Golden State, Utah, and Philadelphia?  If so, how so?  What do the Celtics do effectively against these teams?  And do some players play more minutes than others against such teams?  What's the rotation been like? 
Celtics are a much superior team when they push the basketball. It's when the C's don't run that they truly get into trouble.

Against previous speedsters teams the C's just run with them or milk the shot clock to slow the pace down. When they take time of the shot clock it nearly always backfires. The offense is based on passing and cutting like the Lakers, so having 14 seconds to work with instead of 19 seconds really limits the passing. A smart double team here or there can really limit the offense in a hurry. Also the point guards don't make nearly as good decisions when they're asked to slow it down.

The C's rebounding gives them a big advantage in being able to control the tempo. Nothing special they change on the backboards. C's like to send 5 men to boards (Rondo is a very good rebounder for his size, Ray is solid too) rather than have someone leak out. They run mostly off of turnovers ..... or quick outlet passes from mainly Perk.

Then there's the Ray Allen factor. Getting out into transition is the best way for the C's to get Ray Allen off. They've found it hard in the playoffs to regularly get Ray good looks in the halfcourt throughout games, an easy two here and there really helps him get his rhythm. Ray's decision making in the open court has fallen back from where it was in Seattle simply because the C's don't run as much as they should do .... so Ray is better as finisher in the open floor nowadays.

As for their track record against quick teams, it's been good. Largely due to their advantages in the paint. They pose some problems but not too many, the biggest is obviously less possessions against the C's halfcourt defense which limits the C's normal advantages. Also gives the opposition a few easier baskets which are hard to come by against Boston.

Utah is the only team with the mixture of the open court game and halfcourt dominance to compare to the Lakers team. They were the one team that was consistently able to create good shooting attemtpts in the halfcourt. Watching the games you legitimately felt that was never going to change no matter how many times the two sides played. The big difference was Deron Williams, he was too good for Rondo and gave their offense so many extra options. So different emphasis of attack which hurts the comparison. The Jazz's ability to move without the ball off the help defense and get shots close to the rim was a pain in the C's backside. That's something LA can do but sometimes get caught falling in love with their three pointer.

Thanks that very insightful.  The Lakere *are* also at their best when they move and cut.  One concern I have for this series is that the Lakers won't move purposefully without the ball; it will be difficult enough because the Celtics deny passes exceedingly well.  Worst-case scenario for the Lakers is that Kobe becomes frustrated and isolated; and he will not get anywhere going 1 on 5 vs. this Celtics defense, a la Lebron James.