Lakers vs. Celtics: Match-ups

[jblaze]

Whos going to guard Pierce? Kobe?

In that case, whos going to guard Ray Allen? Walton?? LOL 

[Thruthelookingglass]

Whos going to guard Pierce? Kobe?

In that case, whos going to guard Ray Allen? Walton?? LOL 

I think that Ray and Kobe may want a piece of each other this series.  Though Kobe is clearly the superior player, Ray had a lot of animosity for Kobe during his Sonics years.  I for one would like to see Ray get inspired by that matchup.

[BudweiserCeltic]

He'll fill the offensive stat sheet, not the defensive one, and that's where the C's will win this series: defense. The Lakers have no answer for Pierce, Garnett, or Ray Allen, and even Perk and Rage will be tough match-ups for them.

Kobe has almost always had trouble with the Truth, and has played some of his worst games against the Celtics, again, for the lack of D. I think this is the best match-up for the C's in the playoffs, and that they'll win it in five, (at the most).

How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Lakers having no answer for Pierce, Garnett, or Ray Allen?  Szcerbiak and Rip Hamilton did a fair job limiting Ray Allen.  Now you presume Ray Allen is suddenly going to go hogwild on Kobe Bryant, 1st Team All-Defense?  Ridiculous. 

Szcerbiak didn't stop Allen, the Cleveland defensive scheme did, and poor PG play during the series didn't help matter. They threw Allen off his rhythm, he started to struggle individually... but has since regained that rhythm. Rip Hamilton is a great defensive player on his own right, and he's a VERY dirty player, and Ray Allen did quite well against him still. Kobe Bryant, great defender, and I can see him stopping Allen for the most part, but you assumptions of what happened in the past series are completely off.

The Lakers limit opposing teams to a 45% fg pct.  That's better than the Cleveland Cavs.  The Celtics didn't exactly torch them on the offensive end, so how did you arrive at the conclusion that suddenly the Celtics offense is going to erupt?

Yeah, you're clearly looking at the wrong stats. Cleveland is holding opposing teams to lower fg% and needless to say in PPG. I don't know where you're looking your stats at, but I suggest you switch to some other place. People might not like Mike Brown as a coach, but he is a defensive genius, and no one can take that away from him.

Your team had trouble with the Atlanta Hawks.  The Lakers are as young, as athletic, and more experienced.  How did you conclude the Lakers are the best match-up?  Do you really believe Perkins is going to be tougher than Tim Duncan?  Do you think Rondo is going to be tougher than Allan Iverson, Deron Williams, or Tony Parker?  I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the Celtics supporting players don't faze the Lakers.

The Laker's are NOT as young and as athletic as the Hawks. Kobe is really the only one of comparable athletism there; you're way off. At the moment I'd argue that Perkins is a better defender than Tim Duncan just because Duncan is slower and not as good as he used to be on help defense.  Perkins has been a defensive beast and he'll bruise Gasol-softy quite good. Rondo is his own worst enemy, his struggles or success will have little to do with what the Lakers do, but on how he decides to perform.
    

[Ersatz]

I think we might see a lot of Pierce guarding Kobe and Kobe guarding Pierce in the fourth quarter. And I can't wait for that.

[RebusRankin]

I'll concede Kobe being a tough matchup and Odom being a wildcard.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

He'll fill the offensive stat sheet, not the defensive one, and that's where the C's will win this series: defense. The Lakers have no answer for Pierce, Garnett, or Ray Allen, and even Perk and Rage will be tough match-ups for them.

Kobe has almost always had trouble with the Truth, and has played some of his worst games against the Celtics, again, for the lack of D. I think this is the best match-up for the C's in the playoffs, and that they'll win it in five, (at the most).

How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Lakers having no answer for Pierce, Garnett, or Ray Allen?  Szcerbiak and Rip Hamilton did a fair job limiting Ray Allen.  Now you presume Ray Allen is suddenly going to go hogwild on Kobe Bryant, 1st Team All-Defense?  Ridiculous. 

Szcerbiak didn't stop Allen, the Cleveland defensive scheme did, and poor PG play during the series didn't help matter. They threw Allen off his rhythm, he started to struggle individually... but has since regained that rhythm. Rip Hamilton is a great defensive player on his own right, and he's a VERY dirty player, and Ray Allen did quite well against him still. Kobe Bryant, great defender, and I can see him stopping Allen for the most part, but you assumptions of what happened in the past series are completely off.

The Lakers limit opposing teams to a 45% fg pct.  That's better than the Cleveland Cavs.  The Celtics didn't exactly torch them on the offensive end, so how did you arrive at the conclusion that suddenly the Celtics offense is going to erupt?

Yeah, you're clearly looking at the wrong stats. Cleveland is holding opposing teams to lower fg% and needless to say in PPG. I don't know where you're looking your stats at, but I suggest you switch to some other place. People might not like Mike Brown as a coach, but he is a defensive genius, and no one can take that away from him.

Your team had trouble with the Atlanta Hawks.  The Lakers are as young, as athletic, and more experienced.  How did you conclude the Lakers are the best match-up?  Do you really believe Perkins is going to be tougher than Tim Duncan?  Do you think Rondo is going to be tougher than Allan Iverson, Deron Williams, or Tony Parker?  I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the Celtics supporting players don't faze the Lakers.

The Laker's are NOT as young and as athletic as the Hawks. Kobe is really the only one of comparable athletism there; you're way off. At the moment I'd argue that Perkins is a better defender than Tim Duncan just because Duncan is slower and not as good as he used to be on help defense.  Perkins has been a defensive beast and he'll bruise Gasol-softy quite good. Rondo is his own worst enemy, his struggles or success will have little to do with what the Lakers do, but on how he decides to perform.
    

Hawks                Lakers

Bibby          vs.   Fisher

Joe Johnson    vs.   Kobe

M. Williams    vs.   L. Odom

Josh Smith     vs.   Radmanovich

Horford        vs.   Gasol


Now the Lakers are BETTER but not younger and more ATHLETIC. That type of team, i.e. Hawks, Wizards, has given the Celtics trouble. The Lakers are not that type of team.

[greg_kite]

Phil Jackson is a master of finding the right matchups so if Doc can keep up with him at all I think the C's will win.  That's a big "if" though.

I think we'll see a lot of these lineups:
Fisher/Rondo, Vujacic/Allen, Kobe/Pierce, Odom/KG and Gasol/Perk and when Posey comes in it will switch to KG/Gasol, Posey/Odom.  The best thing for Doc to do would be to go big if they start playing Vujacic a lot.  Pierce at the 2 and Posey at the 3 against Kobe.  Unless Ariza can play a lot and play well the C's have the advantage at the wings, as long as Doc forces the matchups.

PG is a wash to me for the most part.  Rondo can blow by Fisher but Fisher can hit outside shots when Rondo doubles.  Their contributions will mostly offset.  Same with House/Cassell vs. Fahmah.  However, the Celtics have KG and Perk to cover for mistakes, can Odom and Gasol do the same thing?  I don't think so.  Rondo should be able to take it to the rim much easier than against Cleveland or even Atlanta.

The big guys are going to determine the series in my opinion.  Perk has to keep Gasol in check with his strength and length.  I don't think that's unreasonable.  What worries me is that Gasol played well in the World Championships so I can't tell if he's going to bring his game up or be a whiny softy when Perk pushes him around.  I also think they will have Gasol cover KG which means Perk can take advantage of Odom in the post.  Perk isn't exactly a scorer but any high percentage points from him will help.  He can score just as easily in the post against the weaker, lighter Gasol.  Gasol's speed and ball handling will be tough, but Perk has been very impressive so far in the playoffs.

KG might have trouble garding Odom, but he's the defensive player of the year and should be able to keep him in check.  Posey will take a few shots guarding Odom too.

What I'd like to see Doc try, even if it fails, is this lineup:  Allen, Pierce, Posey, KG, Perk.  If the Lakers don't press this is a team the Lakers can't match up with.  Allen vs Fisher give Ray the chance to shoot over a smaller guy.  Posey could cover Kobe and would free up Paul to score against whoever is covering him.  The spacing would be great, size mismatches would abound and the defense would be as good as any team they could put out there.  Ray could play the point since Fisher isn't a driver.  He could just stay home with Fisher and let everyone play man to man.  If Kobe decides to score against Posey in single coverage it would take his teammates out of the game and he would be going against one of the best wing defenders in the league.  

One other thing could be extremely important.  Generally the healthiest teams win the title.  Is Kobe's back still bothering him at all?  If he has to cover Pierce in the post, don't you think that it could?  Or if Posey does his trademark hard foul to a guy on a fast break?  

The last part of my novel comes to the playoffs so far.  The Hawks(JJ), Cavs(LeBron), Pistons(Hamilton) all had their strongest players at the wing and the C's still prevailed.  They've had lots of practice and I think that will help in this series.

Some of you might laugh, but when they made it past Cleveland I really thought that was the toughest team they would face.  It's pretty even now and the team that wants it more will win.  And I think that team is the Celtics.  GO CELTICS!!!!!!  BEAT L.A.!!!!!

[Chief]

I thought I saw on ESPN where Kobe will guard Rondo. They thought Kobe will roam on defense and then have more energy on offense. That's what I would do if I were Phil.

[BballTim]

He'll fill the offensive stat sheet, not the defensive one, and that's where the C's will win this series: defense. The Lakers have no answer for Pierce, Garnett, or Ray Allen, and even Perk and Rage will be tough match-ups for them.

Kobe has almost always had trouble with the Truth, and has played some of his worst games against the Celtics, again, for the lack of D. I think this is the best match-up for the C's in the playoffs, and that they'll win it in five, (at the most).

How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Lakers having no answer for Pierce, Garnett, or Ray Allen?  Szcerbiak and Rip Hamilton did a fair job limiting Ray Allen.  Now you presume Ray Allen is suddenly going to go hogwild on Kobe Bryant, 1st Team All-Defense?  Ridiculous. 

  Wally and Rip didn't limit Ray very much. He just missed his shots, the same shots he's started making again.

The Lakers limit opposing teams to a 45% fg pct.  That's better than the Cleveland Cavs.  The Celtics didn't exactly torch them on the offensive end, so how did you arrive at the conclusion that suddenly the Celtics offense is going to erupt?
   

  The Cavs had the 2nd best defense in the playoffs (behind us). The Pistons were 3rd.

  The Lakers scored 115 a game vs Denver, 110 a game vs Utah, and 93 a game vs San Antonio. We had a poor series vs Cleveland (84 a game) but got 92 a game vs Detroit. We're better defensively than SA and you're worse defensively than Detroit, so I don't see this as a mismatch offensively.

[Redz]

Just a suspicion here...Beyond the obvious Kobe nemesis, I think the guys I'm going to end up hating the most by the end of the series will be Fisher and Turiaf(in the sense that they will burn the Celtics when you least expect them to).  Vujacic will bug me more in the "Ginobili school of acting" sense.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Just a suspicion here...Beyond the obvious Kobe nemesis, I think the guys I'm going to end up hating the most by the end of the series will be Fisher and Turiaf(in the sense that they will burn the Celtics when you least expect them to).  Vujacic will bug me more in the "Ginobili school of acting" sense.

Along those lines, I'll hate Vujacic and Farmar if they start knocking down 3s with regularity. I think Turiaf will be ineffective against us.

[oneofthesedays]

Laker fan here.......my thoughts.

The Lakers have probably not faced a defense as tenacious as BOS's in the playoffs thus far.  Unlike the Spurs the Celtics have a good mix of old and young and won't have trouble running with the Lakers.  I don't see anyone on the Celtics stopping or even slowing down Kobe, consider that he shot > 50% against Bowen, but if they can stop everyone else that will be enough to beat the Lakers.  That being said, I actually think having Gasol instead of Bynum will make it far easier for the Lakers to score than they did the previous two matchups.  Gasol is someone that has to be guarded outside of the paint, so Garnett will definitely not be able to free lance like he did before.  Unless Garnett is on Odom, Perkins will probably have trouble staying in front of him considering how slow he is.  If the Lakers can get 20-30 pts from Kobe on efficient shooting, 15-20 each from Lamar and Pau, then they are going to win.

I don't worry one iota about the Celtic's offense.  They look like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off at times.  There is no PG advantage the Celtics have.  Rondo is a joke as far as running an offense is concerned.  He makes dumb decisions, has trouble finding the open man, has a horrid shot, and is really showing how young and inexperienced he is in these playoffs.  As a floor general he is perhaps one of the worst PG's I've seen in the playoffs thus far.  He sort of makes up for this with his defense, easily one of the best defensive PG's in the league.  Unfortunately for the Celtics the Lakers don't rely on the PG position to score points so his efforts will probably be wasted on Fisher/Farmar.  Garnett is another guy I worry little about since he has resorted to being a jumpshooter in the playoffs.  He's going to get his points no matter who we put on him, as long as he stays away from the paint and sticks to those midrange shots the Lakers are fine.  And we can all count on KG to pull his usual disappearing act in the clutch.  Pierce, of course, is the obvious worry.  Outside of Ariza and Kobe we don't really have anyone who can guard him effectively.  I expect him to be very big in this series.  As far as Jesus Shuttlesworth goes he has proven to be a non factor for the playoffs thus far.  Just stick a body on him and don't let him get open and he's pretty much useless.

I find it funny that nobody has mentioned the biggest matchup of all......Phil vs. Doc.  Phil is going to drink Doc's milkshake.  If you don't think coaching is going to be a significant factor in this series you really don't know much about playoff basketball.  So far you've been lucky to face POS coaches like Mike Woodson, Flip, and Mike Brown who haven't exploited Doc.   

[RebusRankin]

Hey oneofthesedays,

Ray's actually been a factor the last two games, Perkins isn't slow, KG has come up big all play-offs including in the clutch and Rondo has had big games all series.I suggest you watch some of the games before you comment.

[sk7326]

The big variable for Boston seems to be Rondo.  But really, it's Perk.  Laker fans can say Rondo is a poor floor general, but he does not have the Assists:Turnover ratio of a bad one.  He is young, but he has been fine for the most part.  Perk though has been the special sauce so often for this team in the postseason.  He was a tough, burly, energetic factor in every win in the Detroit series, and the two times he wasn't they lost.  The Lakers are exceedingly gifted athletically, but have not been hit in the mouth this postseason by a team of comparable athleticism.  San Antonio outside of their Big 3 are a very unathletic, slow team.  If Perk plays with the fire he did in his best spots against Detroit, the Celtics frontcourt defense is nearly airtight, as Perk, Garnett and Pierce represent elite defenders at each of their positions.

Kobe has to be taken off the table as a match up concern.  Only he can score 81 in a game.  That's life.  But the Celtics this season in their 2 meetings for what its worth, did a great job making him a volume shooter.  That will be the key here.  If Kobe is having a lot of 9-22, 11-29 sorts of games, then his points are not a big deal.  This is going to be another place where Perk's defense will be key.  It is tempting to call him slow, but you look at how hard he works, and how often in these series he is charged to show on a pick and roll and then recover to get his post man.  He is almost never behind the ball reversal.  Garnett of course has always been special at that art, but Perk is really really good at it.  The recovery time for Perk to find Gasol after showing on Kobe will be essential.

Put simply, Perk's best games have coincided with Boston's best games.  Things come easily to this team when he is playing to his ability.

[chibi]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Lakers having no answer for Pierce, Garnett, or Ray Allen?  Szcerbiak and Rip Hamilton did a fair job limiting Ray Allen.  Now you presume Ray Allen is suddenly going to go hogwild on Kobe Bryant, 1st Team All-Defense?  Ridiculous. 

Szcerbiak didn't stop Allen, the Cleveland defensive scheme did, and poor PG play during the series didn't help matter. They threw Allen off his rhythm, he started to struggle individually... but has since regained that rhythm. Rip Hamilton is a great defensive player on his own right, and he's a VERY dirty player, and Ray Allen did quite well against him still. Kobe Bryant, great defender, and I can see him stopping Allen for the most part, but you assumptions of what happened in the past series are completely off.

The Lakers limit opposing teams to a 45% fg pct.  That's better than the Cleveland Cavs.  The Celtics didn't exactly torch them on the offensive end, so how did you arrive at the conclusion that suddenly the Celtics offense is going to erupt?

Yeah, you're clearly looking at the wrong stats. Cleveland is holding opposing teams to lower fg% and needless to say in PPG. I don't know where you're looking your stats at, but I suggest you switch to some other place. People might not like Mike Brown as a coach, but he is a defensive genius, and no one can take that away from him.

Your team had trouble with the Atlanta Hawks.  The Lakers are as young, as athletic, and more experienced.  How did you conclude the Lakers are the best match-up?  Do you really believe Perkins is going to be tougher than Tim Duncan?  Do you think Rondo is going to be tougher than Allan Iverson, Deron Williams, or Tony Parker?  I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the Celtics supporting players don't faze the Lakers.

The Laker's are NOT as young and as athletic as the Hawks. Kobe is really the only one of comparable athletism there; you're way off. At the moment I'd argue that Perkins is a better defender than Tim Duncan just because Duncan is slower and not as good as he used to be on help defense.  Perkins has been a defensive beast and he'll bruise Gasol-softy quite good. Rondo is his own worst enemy, his struggles or success will have little to do with what the Lakers do, but on how he decides to perform.
    

[/quote]




Hawks                Lakers

Bibby          vs.   Fisher

Joe Johnson    vs.   Kobe

M. Williams    vs.   L. Odom

Josh Smith     vs.   Radmanovich

Horford        vs.   Gasol


Now the Lakers are BETTER but not younger and more ATHLETIC. That type of team, i.e. Hawks, Wizards, has given the Celtics trouble. The Lakers are not that type of team.

[/quote]

1.  With regard to the 45% fg pct, I'm looking at the season stats as opposed to the playoff numbers.  I thought they'd be more indicative of what the Lakers are capable of, since they are based on 82 games instead of 15.  For the playoffs, the Lakers are holding opponents to 43% fg pct.  

2.  You are right about the Lakers not being younger.  The avg age for the Hawks is 25.8; the avg age for the Lakers?  26.4
The Lakers are pretty athletic, with the exception of Luke Walton.  Since athleticism is kind of a vague concept I should have avoided throwing it in there.

3.  Any specific reasons why athletic teams like the Hawks and Wizards give the Celtics trouble?    

4.  And you say Perkins is better than Tim Duncan on defense?  Come on, Dino.  You're better than that!

5.  I hadn't thought of this before, but 1 reason for Allen's inconsistent play may be due to two factors.  The first is age; the second is having to expend a lot of energy guarding his man and having to go through picks and such.  It's harder to shoot jumpshots when you don't have your legs.  With that being said, he won't have to run around as much guarding Kobe, so he may be effective because he can conserve energy.