KG's #5 going to the rafters!

[Moranis]

You really brought up the Lakers as having a better tradition in this conversation? 

The Lakers have been around as long and have nearly as many titles.  They also have a similar number of all time great players, but they don't honor role players with the greatest honor a franchise can give.  So yeah, the Lakers do that particular thing better than Boston.  Having your name and number in the rafters is the greatest thing a franchise can do for a player, it should be reserved for the best of the best and I'm sorry having guys like KC Jones up there, diminishes the honor.  It just does. 

[nickagneta]

K.C. Jones was the Marcus Smart of 8 title winning teams. If Smart helps the Celtics to win one or two titles in Boston by doing Marcus Smart type things, his number 36 would be retired. Well, KC did that not on one or two title teams he did it on 8 straight.

[Moranis]

K.C. Jones was the Marcus Smart of 8 title winning teams. If Smart helps the Celtics to win one or two titles in Boston by doing Marcus Smart type things, his number 36 would be retired. Well, KC did that not on one or two title teams he did it on 8 straight.

I just don't agree that the at absolute best the 5th best player and often 6th or 7th best player on every single team he was on should have his number retired.  It is the highest honor a franchise can give and you shouldn't give it to role players.

[Adelaide Celt]

Any model that makes the Celtics franchise more like the Lakers, I reject totally, out of hand. I could not care less how many retired numbers the Lakers have or how they honored their non-players. THE CELTICS ARE NOT THE LAKERS!!!

The Celtics honor those players that are major contributors to championship teams. The Celtics have won a lot of titles, so that means a lot of retired numbers. The Celtics felt Red and Walter Brown were as important to the team as players so honored them with player numbers. That's cool and unique and should never even be thought about reversing.

And there is still a huge amount of numbers still to be used. If the Celtics over the next 50 or so years win 17 more titles and retire another 20 numbers, they will still have enough numbers for another hundred years after that. I doubt they retire that many numbers over the next 50 years so the Celtics are good with numbers for probably the next 200 years or so

I have no sympathy for the refs because signaling numbers like 86 or 67 will take more hand signals to the sideline during fouls. And if players are going to get all nutty because they can't have #33 or #5 or #35, then I am not sure they are a player I want on this team. These are the available numbers. Pick one. Make it your own, help this team win a title and it too will be retired.

TP both for the general sentiment and the correct use of the term 'could not care less'.

[Somebody]

Any model that makes the Celtics franchise more like the Lakers, I reject totally, out of hand. I could not care less how many retired numbers the Lakers have or how they honored their non-players. THE CELTICS ARE NOT THE LAKERS!!!

The Celtics honor those players that are major contributors to championship teams. The Celtics have won a lot of titles, so that means a lot of retired numbers. The Celtics felt Red and Walter Brown were as important to the team as players so honored them with player numbers. That's cool and unique and should never even be thought about reversing.

And there is still a huge amount of numbers still to be used. If the Celtics over the next 50 or so years win 17 more titles and retire another 20 numbers, they will still have enough numbers for another hundred years after that. I doubt they retire that many numbers over the next 50 years so the Celtics are good with numbers for probably the next 200 years or so

I have no sympathy for the refs because signaling numbers like 86 or 67 will take more hand signals to the sideline during fouls. And if players are going to get all nutty because they can't have #33 or #5 or #35, then I am not sure they are a player I want on this team. These are the available numbers. Pick one. Make it your own, help this team win a title and it too will be retired.

TP both for the general sentiment and the correct use of the term 'could not care less'.

I'll add another one!

[nickagneta]

K.C. Jones was the Marcus Smart of 8 title winning teams. If Smart helps the Celtics to win one or two titles in Boston by doing Marcus Smart type things, his number 36 would be retired. Well, KC did that not on one or two title teams he did it on 8 straight.

I just don't agree that the at absolute best the 5th best player and often 6th or 7th best player on every single team he was on should have his number retired.  It is the highest honor a franchise can give and you shouldn't give it to role players.

Great. That's the way you feel. That's not the way the Celtics organization feels.

That's what makes the Celtics special in sports. They recognize you can't have all-time great teams without those other guys. And those special other guys are recognized as well. That's Celtic tradition. That's the Celtic way.

[GreenFaith1819]

K.C. Jones was the Marcus Smart of 8 title winning teams. If Smart helps the Celtics to win one or two titles in Boston by doing Marcus Smart type things, his number 36 would be retired. Well, KC did that not on one or two title teams he did it on 8 straight.

I just don't agree that the at absolute best the 5th best player and often 6th or 7th best player on every single team he was on should have his number retired.  It is the highest honor a franchise can give and you shouldn't give it to role players.

Saying that Marcus Smart is "just" a role player is like saying Michael Jackson was "just" a performer.

Smart does INCREDIBLE things...often when we NEED them and oftentimes out of the blue.

IMO he embodies Celtic Mystique - just like KG did.

[mmmmm]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Had Allen not left the way he did, he might have a shot just because of the whirlwind of a '07 to '08 it was and it's impact on the league. Had they managed to win in 2010 (should we blame Allen for that one?), all three might get retired anyway. However, let's not waste our time arguing that Allen had the same impact as KG.

Had the Celtics acquired Allen, but not had Pierce, they wouldn't have gotten KG either. Ray Allen wasn't the catalyst. That's silly.

Sure but Pierce was here and Allen was not.  Allen changed the culture.  his acquisition is what took Boston from mediocre to good.  Now sure they needed KG as well to go from good to great (though if they had only acquired KG and not Allen, Boston doesn't win the title either, they needed all 3). 

Well, the reason they had Allen was because they were able to trade the #5 pick.  The reason they were able to trade the #5 pick is because Pierce and Tony Allen had both got injured and that lead to the Cs tanking it out.   If both those guys were healthy, fair chance that the Celtics would have finished that year looking better than mediocre.   Remember, prior to his injury, Allen had started to look like a potential two-way player, with his insane pre-injury athleticism working on the offensive end as well as defense.

Danny already had all the pieces that he ended up trading for KG independent of the Ray trade.   Who knows?  If Pierce and Allen had played out that year healthy, maybe the Cs are a decent middle-seed playoff team and KG agrees to come?

A lineup of Perk + KG + Pierce + (Tony)Allen+Rondo might still have been pretty potent (assumes no career-changing injury to Tony).   It would have probably been less offensively potent without Rays shooting, but probably even more lock-down on defense.

[gouki88]

You really brought up the Lakers as having a better tradition in this conversation? 

The Lakers have been around as long and have nearly as many titles.  They also have a similar number of all time great players, but they don't honor role players with the greatest honor a franchise can give.  So yeah, the Lakers do that particular thing better than Boston.  Having your name and number in the rafters is the greatest thing a franchise can do for a player, it should be reserved for the best of the best and I'm sorry having guys like KC Jones up there, diminishes the honor.  It just does.

It doesn’t diminish the honour at all - you just don’t understand it, clearly.

[RockinRyA]

You really brought up the Lakers as having a better tradition in this conversation? 

The Lakers have been around as long and have nearly as many titles.  They also have a similar number of all time great players, but they don't honor role players with the greatest honor a franchise can give.  So yeah, the Lakers do that particular thing better than Boston.  Having your name and number in the rafters is the greatest thing a franchise can do for a player, it should be reserved for the best of the best and I'm sorry having guys like KC Jones up there, diminishes the honor.  It just does.

It doesn’t diminish the honour at all - you just don’t understand it, clearly.

The guy has been consistently going against the Celtics in his posts. Even when he compliments them they are backhanded. At this point is this really a surprise?

[Moranis]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Had Allen not left the way he did, he might have a shot just because of the whirlwind of a '07 to '08 it was and it's impact on the league. Had they managed to win in 2010 (should we blame Allen for that one?), all three might get retired anyway. However, let's not waste our time arguing that Allen had the same impact as KG.

Had the Celtics acquired Allen, but not had Pierce, they wouldn't have gotten KG either. Ray Allen wasn't the catalyst. That's silly.

Sure but Pierce was here and Allen was not.  Allen changed the culture.  his acquisition is what took Boston from mediocre to good.  Now sure they needed KG as well to go from good to great (though if they had only acquired KG and not Allen, Boston doesn't win the title either, they needed all 3). 

Well, the reason they had Allen was because they were able to trade the #5 pick.  The reason they were able to trade the #5 pick is because Pierce and Tony Allen had both got injured and that lead to the Cs tanking it out.   If both those guys were healthy, fair chance that the Celtics would have finished that year looking better than mediocre.   Remember, prior to his injury, Allen had started to look like a potential two-way player, with his insane pre-injury athleticism working on the offensive end as well as defense.

Danny already had all the pieces that he ended up trading for KG independent of the Ray trade.   Who knows?  If Pierce and Allen had played out that year healthy, maybe the Cs are a decent middle-seed playoff team and KG agrees to come?

A lineup of Perk + KG + Pierce + (Tony)Allen+Rondo might still have been pretty potent (assumes no career-changing injury to Tony).   It would have probably been less offensively potent without Rays shooting, but probably even more lock-down on defense.

C's won 33 game the year before and were 20-27 with Pierce.  They were a bad team and Pierce had basically checked out.  He was going to demand a trade until Ainge acquired Allen, which then led to KG changing his mind about coming to Boston.  Pierce alone was never going to be enough for KG because Pierce alone was not good enough.

[celticsclay]

You really brought up the Lakers as having a better tradition in this conversation? 

The Lakers have been around as long and have nearly as many titles.  They also have a similar number of all time great players, but they don't honor role players with the greatest honor a franchise can give.  So yeah, the Lakers do that particular thing better than Boston.  Having your name and number in the rafters is the greatest thing a franchise can do for a player, it should be reserved for the best of the best and I'm sorry having guys like KC Jones up there, diminishes the honor.  It just does.

It doesn’t diminish the honour at all - you just don’t understand it, clearly.

The guy has been consistently going against the Celtics in his posts. Even when he compliments them they are backhanded. At this point is this really a surprise?

TPs to Nick, Gouki and rocky. You guys all make this board a better place. Thank you.

[GreenEnvy]

No brainer to me. 

Pierce was the Captain but KG was the straw that stirred the drink.    Locally, the '01-02 run put the Celtics back on the map for a lot of Boston sports fans after a dreadful decade but it was the KG acquisition that really kick-started the Celtics resurgence in the region.   The impact of his arrival in town was huge.   Then when the games actually started in '07-08, it was like "Whoa".   He definitely changed the culture inside that locker room and pulled back in the casual Celtics fans.  His importance on the court was glaring. 

In today's day & age of sports, its rare that you're going to see guys play 10-15 years with one organization.  Guys move around.  KG might've only been in Boston for 6 seasons but  with his accomplishments during that time on the court and with the impact he made, I have zero qualms with having his number being retired.   The Celtics have retired numbers for guys who've done lesser.

I’ll never forget opening night in 2007. Every season opener is exciting for a variety of reasons, but I cannot remember a season that comes remotely close to 2007 (2008 was next for the repeat and 2017 was actually up there too, but we all know that excitement lasted less than 6 minutes).

Obviously we had a lot of hype (and our fair share of doubters), but watching KG go nuts for the first time against Washington was amazing. We blew them out easily and Garnett showcased his talent (monster 20/20 game and was everywhere on defense) and the new culture of the Boston Celtics.

Also a little sad reminiscing because that injury in 2009 was truly heartbreaking for him and the team, as I think they may have been even better that season than 2008 and clear title favorites. There’s valid reasoning to think a healthy Garnett may have spearheaded a true dynasty (three-peat?) for the ages.

Nonetheless, I was always in awe of the dedication to his craft and couldn’t be happier that his number is going into the rafters alongside #34. 

[Donoghus]

No brainer to me. 

Pierce was the Captain but KG was the straw that stirred the drink.    Locally, the '01-02 run put the Celtics back on the map for a lot of Boston sports fans after a dreadful decade but it was the KG acquisition that really kick-started the Celtics resurgence in the region.   The impact of his arrival in town was huge.   Then when the games actually started in '07-08, it was like "Whoa".   He definitely changed the culture inside that locker room and pulled back in the casual Celtics fans.  His importance on the court was glaring. 

In today's day & age of sports, its rare that you're going to see guys play 10-15 years with one organization.  Guys move around.  KG might've only been in Boston for 6 seasons but  with his accomplishments during that time on the court and with the impact he made, I have zero qualms with having his number being retired.   The Celtics have retired numbers for guys who've done lesser.

I’ll never forget opening night in 2007. Every season opener is exciting for a variety of reasons, but I cannot remember a season that comes remotely close to 2007 (2008 was next for the repeat and 2017 was actually up there too, but we all know that excitement lasted less than 6 minutes).

Obviously we had a lot of hype (and our fair share of doubters), but watching KG go nuts for the first time against Washington was amazing. We blew them out easily and Garnett showcased his talent (monster 20/20 game and was everywhere on defense) and the new culture of the Boston Celtics.

Also a little sad reminiscing because that injury in 2009 was truly heartbreaking for him and the team, as I think they may have been even better that season than 2008 and clear title favorites. There’s valid reasoning to think a healthy Garnett may have spearheaded a true dynasty (three-peat?) for the ages.

Nonetheless, I was always in awe of the dedication to his craft and couldn’t be happier that his number is going into the rafters alongside #34.

The energy in the arena on Opening Night '07 was unreal.    That atmosphere was like an NBA Finals game (which we would end up seeing months later). 

That's what KG brought to town. 

[GreenFaith1819]

I remember that Wiz game - Nov 2 2007...Gilbert Arenas was running his trap prior the game...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4gElbL41mU

KG told him to have a seat.