KG's #5 going to the rafters!

[Moranis]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh. 

[Donoghus]

No brainer to me. 

Pierce was the Captain but KG was the straw that stirred the drink.    Locally, the '01-02 run put the Celtics back on the map for a lot of Boston sports fans after a dreadful decade but it was the KG acquisition that really kick-started the Celtics resurgence in the region.   The impact of his arrival in town was huge.   Then when the games actually started in '07-08, it was like "Whoa".   He definitely changed the culture inside that locker room and pulled back in the casual Celtics fans.  His importance on the court was glaring. 

In today's day & age of sports, its rare that you're going to see guys play 10-15 years with one organization.  Guys move around.  KG might've only been in Boston for 6 seasons but  with his accomplishments during that time on the court and with the impact he made, I have zero qualms with having his number being retired.   The Celtics have retired numbers for guys who've done lesser.   

[gift]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Had Allen not left the way he did, he might have a shot just because of the whirlwind of a '07 to '08 it was and it's impact on the league. Had they managed to win in 2010 (should we blame Allen for that one?), all three might get retired anyway. However, let's not waste our time arguing that Allen had the same impact as KG.

Had the Celtics acquired Allen, but not had Pierce, they wouldn't have gotten KG either. Ray Allen wasn't the catalyst. That's silly.

[manl_lui]

very well deserved, he brought a great culture and helped bring Celtics pride back!

[Moranis]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Had Allen not left the way he did, he might have a shot just because of the whirlwind of a '07 to '08 it was and it's impact on the league. Had they managed to win in 2010 (should we blame Allen for that one?), all three might get retired anyway. However, let's not waste our time arguing that Allen had the same impact as KG.

Had the Celtics acquired Allen, but not had Pierce, they wouldn't have gotten KG either. Ray Allen wasn't the catalyst. That's silly.

Sure but Pierce was here and Allen was not.  Allen changed the culture.  his acquisition is what took Boston from mediocre to good.  Now sure they needed KG as well to go from good to great (though if they had only acquired KG and not Allen, Boston doesn't win the title either, they needed all 3). 

And I do think it is always strange that people forget that Allen was traded to Memphis by Boston.  Told of the trade and everything.  Why not hold Ainge accountable for that, why only blame Allen when the organization clearly didn't want him?  I mean your boss tells you we don't want you anymore, why would you stick around when you didn't have to?

[perks-a-beast]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Had Allen not left the way he did, he might have a shot just because of the whirlwind of a '07 to '08 it was and it's impact on the league. Had they managed to win in 2010 (should we blame Allen for that one?), all three might get retired anyway. However, let's not waste our time arguing that Allen had the same impact as KG.

Had the Celtics acquired Allen, but not had Pierce, they wouldn't have gotten KG either. Ray Allen wasn't the catalyst. That's silly.

It’s funny, after the whole ordeal we went through with that diva Kyrie, Ray Allen doesn’t seem so bad anymore in comparison. And to be honest, If KG never goes down in 2009, we hoist another banner and there’s not even a debate as to if #20 goes in the ceiling. Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world where the only praise Ray will get in Boston ever again is from a vast minority of fans when he gets into the hall of fame.

[Fafnir]

Ed Macauley has his number retired (his greatest accomplishment in Boston was getting traded for Russell)
Jim Loscutoff would have his number retired but refused the honor so he got Loscy up there  (mostly known for his nickname and fighting prowess)
K.C. Jones has his number retired (zero time all star scored 7.4 PPG)

So lets chill out with the idea that KG getting recognized cheapens the honor.

[gift]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Had Allen not left the way he did, he might have a shot just because of the whirlwind of a '07 to '08 it was and it's impact on the league. Had they managed to win in 2010 (should we blame Allen for that one?), all three might get retired anyway. However, let's not waste our time arguing that Allen had the same impact as KG.

Had the Celtics acquired Allen, but not had Pierce, they wouldn't have gotten KG either. Ray Allen wasn't the catalyst. That's silly.

Sure but Pierce was here and Allen was not.  Allen changed the culture.  his acquisition is what took Boston from mediocre to good.  Now sure they needed KG as well to go from good to great (though if they had only acquired KG and not Allen, Boston doesn't win the title either, they needed all 3). 

And I do think it is always strange that people forget that Allen was traded to Memphis by Boston.  Told of the trade and everything.  Why not hold Ainge accountable for that, why only blame Allen when the organization clearly didn't want him?  I mean your boss tells you we don't want you anymore, why would you stick around when you didn't have to?

Lol, I know you don't believe Allen changed the culture. He wasn't even in Boston before KG. If you are arguing his acquisition changed the culture, then I guess Ainge really changed the culture.

I'd love to see a reunion of the team with Allen included. I don't blame him for leaving. But I recognize that it did sour the feelings between him, his teammates, and the fans. It's just a reality.

[RPGenerate]

Maybe America should honor Benedict Arnold as well lol. Ray Allen was a snake that turned his back on his teammates. Danny wanting to trade him had nothing to do with the other players. Maybe we should also bring up that Ray was a massive introvert, so this talk of changing the culture is nonsense. Rondo did more for the culture than Ray Allen did. I'll always appreciate Ray Allen for his on-court contributions for our team, but nothing more.

[Somebody]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Allen was nowhere near as valuable as KG in those years, that's like comparing 89-92 Bird to 89-92 Parish lol. Allen was the third best player on the Celtics in the '08 finals behind Garnett (the real finals MVP) and Pierce, the box score doesn't show you who drove the offence (Pierce) and spearheaded the defence (Garnett). Our drop from 2012 to 2013 was mainly because of Pierce and Garnett dropping off instead of Allen leaving, obviously losing an All-Star hurts, but Pierce went from an All-Star into a top 50ish player while Garnett dropped off from being arguably a top 10 player into an All-Star, that's a huge downgrade which dwarfs whatever downgrade we had from an old Allen to an old Terry. Ray was a great complementary star (and I've been on record praising guys like that), but he didn't have a huge longevity advantage over Garnett as a Celtic to make up for that gap created in '08 (ntm that Garnett reinvented himself into a DPOY candidate/All-NBA big in '11 and '12 to further separate himself from Allen).

I did have reservations about Garnett having his number retired, but after I dug into former Celtics greats who had their numbers retired I think he's more than deserving of the honour (we've retired numbers in honour of 6 years of Ed McCauley, absolute legends in KC Jones, Jim Loscutoff and Don Nelson, 7 and 8 years of Dennis Johnson and Cedric Maxwell respectively, etc).

[gift]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Had Allen not left the way he did, he might have a shot just because of the whirlwind of a '07 to '08 it was and it's impact on the league. Had they managed to win in 2010 (should we blame Allen for that one?), all three might get retired anyway. However, let's not waste our time arguing that Allen had the same impact as KG.

Had the Celtics acquired Allen, but not had Pierce, they wouldn't have gotten KG either. Ray Allen wasn't the catalyst. That's silly.

It’s funny, after the whole ordeal we went through with that diva Kyrie, Ray Allen doesn’t seem so bad anymore in comparison. And to be honest, If KG never goes down in 2009, we hoist another banner and there’s not even a debate as to if #20 goes in the ceiling. Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world where the only praise Ray will get in Boston ever again is from a vast minority of fans when he gets into the hall of fame.

Absolutely, if they managed to win three straight titles they might all go up in the rafters regardless of how it ended.

[Somebody]

The impact he made on this franchise is only rivalled by a handful of players. Well deserved KG!

like Ray Allen 

You stop that right now

I mean I winked, but I was only half joking.  He played only 48 less regular season games (and only 22 less wins) and 7 more playoff games than Garnett did as Celtics.  Allen was the best player in the Finals when Boston won (I get why Pierce was Finals MVP, but Allen was just better).  Just uber efficient and very good overall.  The first year, KG had a higher WS, but every year after that Allen had higher WS until his final season when he wasn't healthy (now a lot of that is because he was healthier).  I also don't think it is a coincidence that Boston goes from winning the Atlantic and the ECF in Allen's last year to barely making the playoffs and losing to the Knicks in the 1st round the year with KG but no Allen (the Nets also went from 49 wins to 44 wins in KG's first year though did win a playoff series unlike the prior season). Let's also remember KG wouldn't even come to Boston until after Boston had acquired Allen.  Allen was the one that let KG know the team was good enough.  Boston doesn't acquire Allen, then Boston doesn't convince KG to come to town.  Allen changed the culture. 

I know Allen left in a poor manner and that clouds how we in Boston think of him, but if you put KG in the rafters you almost have to put Allen in the rafters also.  I personally wouldn't put either as I think it cheapens every one else up in the rafters when you add people that didn't even play 400 regular season games for the franchise in the rafters (I mean if you play 400 games and are the best player on several title teams, maybe that changes things, but that didn't happen here).  6 partial years is good enough for the rafters.  pish posh.

Had Allen not left the way he did, he might have a shot just because of the whirlwind of a '07 to '08 it was and it's impact on the league. Had they managed to win in 2010 (should we blame Allen for that one?), all three might get retired anyway. However, let's not waste our time arguing that Allen had the same impact as KG.

Had the Celtics acquired Allen, but not had Pierce, they wouldn't have gotten KG either. Ray Allen wasn't the catalyst. That's silly.

It’s funny, after the whole ordeal we went through with that diva Kyrie, Ray Allen doesn’t seem so bad anymore in comparison. And to be honest, If KG never goes down in 2009, we hoist another banner and there’s not even a debate as to if #20 goes in the ceiling. Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world where the only praise Ray will get in Boston ever again is from a vast minority of fans when he gets into the hall of fame.

I think a lot of guys would praise him as an All-Time great (including me) when he gets into the hall, just not as a Celtic

[Moranis]

Ed Macauley has his number retired (his greatest accomplishment in Boston was getting traded for Russell)
Jim Loscutoff would have his number retired but refused the honor so he got Loscy up there  (mostly known for his nickname and fighting prowess)
K.C. Jones has his number retired (zero time all star scored 7.4 PPG)

So lets chill out with the idea that KG getting recognized cheapens the honor.

Those guys shouldn't be up there either.  No way Boston should have 21 players retired plus Brown (1), Red (2), and Most (mic).  Not that you can take anyone down, but you also don't need to keep doubling down on it.  I do think you could probably remove the numbers from Brown and Red and just leave up a banner.  I think there are strong arguments that Ramsey, Nelson, Sanders, and then Maxwell and DJ (for service time) should have never been up there.  Maybe you do what the Lakers did for the Minneapolis players and just honor the player, but not retire the number.

The Lakers by comparison have 11 players retired, plus honor 5 players from Minneapolis (which aren't retired - well 2 are since they were also worn by LA Lakers) along with Kundla and Hearn for other contributions.  That seems more appropriate. 

Retiring a number should be reserved for the best of the best and in my mind KG just wasn't a Celtic for long enough to have earned that honor.  You start putting KG up there, then why not have Tiny, Allen, Rondo, or Toine?  Tiny in particular seems pretty close to KG.  Integral member of a title team.  363 games (less than KG's 396, but not a ton).  Great player before he arrived.  Shorter run starting past his prime.  etc.

[Fafnir]

You really brought up the Lakers as having a better tradition in this conversation? 

[nickagneta]

Any model that makes the Celtics franchise more like the Lakers, I reject totally, out of hand. I could not care less how many retired numbers the Lakers have or how they honored their non-players. THE CELTICS ARE NOT THE LAKERS!!!

The Celtics honor those players that are major contributors to championship teams. The Celtics have won a lot of titles, so that means a lot of retired numbers. The Celtics felt Red and Walter Brown were as important to the team as players so honored them with player numbers. That's cool and unique and should never even be thought about reversing.

And there is still a huge amount of numbers still to be used. If the Celtics over the next 50 or so years win 17 more titles and retire another 20 numbers, they will still have enough numbers for another hundred years after that. I doubt they retire that many numbers over the next 50 years so the Celtics are good with numbers for probably the next 200 years or so

I have no sympathy for the refs because signaling numbers like 86 or 67 will take more hand signals to the sideline during fouls. And if players are going to get all nutty because they can't have #33 or #5 or #35, then I am not sure they are a player I want on this team. These are the available numbers. Pick one. Make it your own, help this team win a title and it too will be retired.