If the Celts are going to make a blockbuster...

[Fierce1]

Yeah I don't see any of the small moves being an upgrade over Theis/Kanter.

If one of them gets injured or completely flat lines into a Greg Monroe type production it would make sense of course.

If production is the basis then it's true there's no need to upgrade.

But Theis and Kanter have flaws on the defensive end.

Theis is very good if the opposing team doesn't have a quality big man.

Kanter is simply horrible on defense.

What the Celts need is a big man like Baynes.

[Fierce1]

Sure was hoping Kanter was going to be the rebounder.  Apparently not.  They need a guy.  Once the big 5 is together I really think all scoring is taken care of.  I really think those 5 can average 85-90 points.  After that little scoring is needed as they will play at least 2 of those 5 all game.  POst D and rebounding is the biggest weakness.

Kanter has been excellent rebounding. He just doesn't get many minutes because he's so bad defensively.

Adding another big at almost any cost as some want to do might seem ideal in some regards, but not if it costs one of our key players. We are one of if not the only team in the league that can get a mismatch almost constantly. We would lose a lot of that by trading, say, Hayward. And just like that what makes this team unique and difficult to defend would be gone.

Agree.

Hayward will not be going anywhere any time soon.

A small move like getting a guy like Poeltl is the best solution.

You have been incessant in your view that the Celtics go nowhere in the post season if they don't get a big to deal with Giannis, the Lopez brothers, Embiid, Anthony Davis and other bigs and you think the best solution is getting Jakob Poeltl?

Jakob Poeltl? A guy who is about a 6 point, 6 rebound bench player that can't get more than 18 MPG on a bad San Antonio club? He is your best solution for slowing down Giannis, Embiid and other dominant bigs and keeping them off the offensive boards?

Okay

Here's the games before the trade deadline when we play the teams with the aforementioned bigs that our lineup of midgets can't deal with (I threw Detroit and Drummond/Griffin in there for giggles). So far we've only played Philly (away) with Kemba shooting poorly and Milwaukee which we won.

Dec 12 - Philly (Home)
Dec 20 - Det (Home)
Jan 9 - Philly (Away)
Jan 15 - Det (Home)
Jan 16 - Mil (Away)
Jan 20 - Lakers (Home)
Feb 1 - Philly (Home)

I honestly think we should at least see how we play against them before we start giving away assets to pursue Poeltl or Kardashian et al to beef up our frontcourt. We may actually do ok.

Against the Cavs, the Celts allowed the Cavs to get 18 offensive rebounds, 8 from Kardashian.

It didn't matter because the Cavs are a bad team.

I don't think the Celts will win a lot of playoff games if they keep allowing opposing teams to get that many 2nd chance opportunities.

FWIW the Cavs are a pretty good offense rebounding team, top 10 in the league.

The C's will give up some offensive boards, just baked into their team.

Also Poltl isn't even a good guy on the defensive glass!

It's not just the Cavs.

Celts allowed the Sixers to get 62 rebounds in the first game of the season.

In the loss to the Nets, Jordan and Allen combined for 22 points and 22 rebounds.

I can understand if you don't want Poeltl, but if not Poeltl then a big man like Baynes.

[Fafnir]

Okay who is "like Baynes"? FWIW Theis is essentially giving us what Baynes did last year.

Our defensive rebounding issue is because we're playing smaller lineups that pressures the ball. That leads to more rotation and opens up rebounding lanes. Also when play small big guys just naturally out jump or out muscle you. Our defense is still really good, but its not perfect and that's the flaw.

Not having Williams really hurts as he's the best rebounder we have on the team by far. But even if we get a bigger backup C or a backup PF we're still going to be playing smaller lineups that pressure the ball for a lot of minutes.

[Jvalin]

Sure was hoping Kanter was going to be the rebounder.  Apparently not.  They need a guy.  Once the big 5 is together I really think all scoring is taken care of.  I really think those 5 can average 85-90 points.  After that little scoring is needed as they will play at least 2 of those 5 all game.  POst D and rebounding is the biggest weakness.

Kanter has been excellent rebounding. He just doesn't get many minutes because he's so bad defensively.

Adding another big at almost any cost as some want to do might seem ideal in some regards, but not if it costs one of our key players. We are one of if not the only team in the league that can get a mismatch almost constantly. We would lose a lot of that by trading, say, Hayward. And just like that what makes this team unique and difficult to defend would be gone.

Agree.

Hayward will not be going anywhere any time soon.

A small move like getting a guy like Poeltl is the best solution.

You have been incessant in your view that the Celtics go nowhere in the post season if they don't get a big to deal with Giannis, the Lopez brothers, Embiid, Anthony Davis and other bigs and you think the best solution is getting Jakob Poeltl?

Jakob Poeltl? A guy who is about a 6 point, 6 rebound bench player that can't get more than 18 MPG on a bad San Antonio club? He is your best solution for slowing down Giannis, Embiid and other dominant bigs and keeping them off the offensive boards?

Okay

Or Tristan Thompson! Who we'd have to trade basically our entire big-man rotation for...

Not if we sign him via the buyout market though.

Thompson is on a $18,539,130 expiring contract. It's possible that the Cavs won't find a team willing to match salaries for him and they end up cutting him. I mean, they have the 3rd worst record in the NBA right now (5-18).

[Fierce1]

Okay who is "like Baynes"? FWIW Theis is essentially giving us what Baynes did last year.

Our defensive rebounding issue is because we're playing smaller lineups that pressures the ball. That leads to more rotation and opens up rebounding lanes. Also when play small big guys just naturally out jump or out muscle you. Our defense is still really good, but its not perfect and that's the flaw.

Not having Williams really hurts as he's the best rebounder we have on the team by far.

That's the problem, the Celts must always be at their best because they're a small team.
They're trying to compensate for their lack of size.
Hence the there is that flaw that you're talking about.

So why not try to correct it?

Celts have the assets to do it.
They don't even have to trade Tatum, Kemba, Hayward, Brown, and Smart.

It's Ainge's job to correct that flaw.

[Fierce1]

Sure was hoping Kanter was going to be the rebounder.  Apparently not.  They need a guy.  Once the big 5 is together I really think all scoring is taken care of.  I really think those 5 can average 85-90 points.  After that little scoring is needed as they will play at least 2 of those 5 all game.  POst D and rebounding is the biggest weakness.

Kanter has been excellent rebounding. He just doesn't get many minutes because he's so bad defensively.

Adding another big at almost any cost as some want to do might seem ideal in some regards, but not if it costs one of our key players. We are one of if not the only team in the league that can get a mismatch almost constantly. We would lose a lot of that by trading, say, Hayward. And just like that what makes this team unique and difficult to defend would be gone.

Agree.

Hayward will not be going anywhere any time soon.

A small move like getting a guy like Poeltl is the best solution.

You have been incessant in your view that the Celtics go nowhere in the post season if they don't get a big to deal with Giannis, the Lopez brothers, Embiid, Anthony Davis and other bigs and you think the best solution is getting Jakob Poeltl?

Jakob Poeltl? A guy who is about a 6 point, 6 rebound bench player that can't get more than 18 MPG on a bad San Antonio club? He is your best solution for slowing down Giannis, Embiid and other dominant bigs and keeping them off the offensive boards?

Okay

Or Tristan Thompson! Who we'd have to trade basically our entire big-man rotation for...

Not if we sign him via the buyout market though.

Thompson is on a $18,539,130 expiring contract. It's possible that the Cavs won't find a team willing to match salaries for him and they end up cutting him. I mean, they have the 3rd worst record in the NBA right now (5-18).

There's already talk of Toronto wanting to bring Tristan back home to Canada.

So why would Tristan choose Boston over Canada?

The problem with the buyout market is it's going to be a bidding war and the Celts only have the vet's minimum to offer right now.

All the cap space money remaining was given to Poirier.

[seancally]

Sure was hoping Kanter was going to be the rebounder.  Apparently not.  They need a guy.  Once the big 5 is together I really think all scoring is taken care of.  I really think those 5 can average 85-90 points.  After that little scoring is needed as they will play at least 2 of those 5 all game.  POst D and rebounding is the biggest weakness.

Kanter has been excellent rebounding. He just doesn't get many minutes because he's so bad defensively.

Adding another big at almost any cost as some want to do might seem ideal in some regards, but not if it costs one of our key players. We are one of if not the only team in the league that can get a mismatch almost constantly. We would lose a lot of that by trading, say, Hayward. And just like that what makes this team unique and difficult to defend would be gone.

Agree.

Hayward will not be going anywhere any time soon.

A small move like getting a guy like Poeltl is the best solution.

You have been incessant in your view that the Celtics go nowhere in the post season if they don't get a big to deal with Giannis, the Lopez brothers, Embiid, Anthony Davis and other bigs and you think the best solution is getting Jakob Poeltl?

Jakob Poeltl? A guy who is about a 6 point, 6 rebound bench player that can't get more than 18 MPG on a bad San Antonio club? He is your best solution for slowing down Giannis, Embiid and other dominant bigs and keeping them off the offensive boards?

Okay

Or Tristan Thompson! Who we'd have to trade basically our entire big-man rotation for...

Not if we sign him via the buyout market though.

Thompson is on a $18,539,130 expiring contract. It's possible that the Cavs won't find a team willing to match salaries for him and they end up cutting him. I mean, they have the 3rd worst record in the NBA right now (5-18).

Would be happy to sign TT off the buyout market but we won't be the only suitors. Why wouldn't he to LA, Miami, etc.?

[seancally]

Sure was hoping Kanter was going to be the rebounder.  Apparently not.  They need a guy.  Once the big 5 is together I really think all scoring is taken care of.  I really think those 5 can average 85-90 points.  After that little scoring is needed as they will play at least 2 of those 5 all game.  POst D and rebounding is the biggest weakness.

Kanter has been excellent rebounding. He just doesn't get many minutes because he's so bad defensively.

Adding another big at almost any cost as some want to do might seem ideal in some regards, but not if it costs one of our key players. We are one of if not the only team in the league that can get a mismatch almost constantly. We would lose a lot of that by trading, say, Hayward. And just like that what makes this team unique and difficult to defend would be gone.

Agree.

Hayward will not be going anywhere any time soon.

A small move like getting a guy like Poeltl is the best solution.

You have been incessant in your view that the Celtics go nowhere in the post season if they don't get a big to deal with Giannis, the Lopez brothers, Embiid, Anthony Davis and other bigs and you think the best solution is getting Jakob Poeltl?

Jakob Poeltl? A guy who is about a 6 point, 6 rebound bench player that can't get more than 18 MPG on a bad San Antonio club? He is your best solution for slowing down Giannis, Embiid and other dominant bigs and keeping them off the offensive boards?

Okay

Or Tristan Thompson! Who we'd have to trade basically our entire big-man rotation for...

Not if we sign him via the buyout market though.

Thompson is on a $18,539,130 expiring contract. It's possible that the Cavs won't find a team willing to match salaries for him and they end up cutting him. I mean, they have the 3rd worst record in the NBA right now (5-18).

There's already talk of Toronto wanting to bring Tristan back home to Canada.

So why would Tristan choose Boston over Canada?

The problem with the buyout market is it's going to be a bidding war and the Celts only have the vet's minimum to offer right now.

All the cap space money remaining was given to Poirier.

Or Toronto!  TP

[Fafnir]

Its still December buyout talk is silly. We have no idea what the team will look like at that point, or the league.

[Fierce1]

Its still December buyout talk is silly. We have no idea what the team will look like at that point, or the league.

I agree.

What's worse is if it's already buyout season, that means the trade deadline has passed.

Last season the top 3 teams in the east upgraded their roster.

Only Boston didn't upgrade at the trade deadline and Ainge admitted that it was a mistake.

[seancally]

Its still December buyout talk is silly. We have no idea what the team will look like at that point, or the league.

Yeah, and TBH the blockbuster talk is also a little premature. We have the No. 3 record in the league with wins over Nos. 2, 4, 7, 8 and 9. Yes, that top 10 will shift around and the standing might look much different in 4 months. But we're now more than 25% through the season and have had our top 6 players in uniform for, what, less than half of that? IMO the biggest reasons for success are, in no particular order:

- Kemba's attitude and leadership
- Tatum/Brown learning how to play together really well, and taking individual steps forward
- Hayward showing his stuff
- The fact that we have wing mismatches with every team in the league, when all of Brown/Tatum/Hayward are playing.

Any blockbuster trade would change the last item, could well change the second and third, and have no guarantee of paying off.

[Jvalin]

There's already talk of Toronto wanting to bring Tristan back home to Canada.

So why would Tristan choose Boston over Canada?

The problem with the buyout market is it's going to be a bidding war and the Celts only have the vet's minimum to offer right now.

All the cap space money remaining was given to Poirier.

Would be happy to sign TT off the buyout market but we won't be the only suitors. Why wouldn't he to LA, Miami, etc.?

Cause he'd be a starter for us and the C's are likely to make a deep playoff run.

The Raps have Gasol-Ibaka at the 5. I get that Gasol is struggling this season, but I highly doubt they would trade him for Thompson. The same goes for the Lakers (Howard-McGee are both playing great this season, plus AD can provide cover at the 5 as well), the Heat (Bam), you name it. If Thompson wants to play big minutes in the playoffs with a view to maximizing his value in free agency, we might be the ideal fit for him.

Not saying we would be favorites to sign him. Just saying that imo we would have a legit chance.

[Fierce1]

Its still December buyout talk is silly. We have no idea what the team will look like at that point, or the league.

Yeah, and TBH the blockbuster talk is also a little premature. We have the No. 3 record in the league with wins over Nos. 2, 4, 7, 8 and 9. Yes, that top 10 will shift around and the standing might look much different in 4 months. But we're now more than 25% through the season and have had our top 6 players in uniform for, what, less than half of that? IMO the biggest reasons for success are, in no particular order:

- Kemba's attitude and leadership
- Tatum/Brown learning how to play together really well, and taking individual steps forward
- Hayward showing his stuff
- The fact that we have wing mismatches with every team in the league, when all of Brown/Tatum/Hayward are playing.

Any blockbuster trade would change the last item, could well change the second and third, and have no guarantee of paying off.

True.

That's why it's a good thing the Celts have lots of options.

Celts can do a blockbuster trade if they want to.

Celts can do a trade for a player worth 18m.

And Celts can do a minor trade.

It's Ainge's decision to make.

[nickagneta]

Sure was hoping Kanter was going to be the rebounder.  Apparently not.  They need a guy.  Once the big 5 is together I really think all scoring is taken care of.  I really think those 5 can average 85-90 points.  After that little scoring is needed as they will play at least 2 of those 5 all game.  POst D and rebounding is the biggest weakness.

Kanter has been excellent rebounding. He just doesn't get many minutes because he's so bad defensively.

Adding another big at almost any cost as some want to do might seem ideal in some regards, but not if it costs one of our key players. We are one of if not the only team in the league that can get a mismatch almost constantly. We would lose a lot of that by trading, say, Hayward. And just like that what makes this team unique and difficult to defend would be gone.

Agree.

Hayward will not be going anywhere any time soon.

A small move like getting a guy like Poeltl is the best solution.

You have been incessant in your view that the Celtics go nowhere in the post season if they don't get a big to deal with Giannis, the Lopez brothers, Embiid, Anthony Davis and other bigs and you think the best solution is getting Jakob Poeltl?

Jakob Poeltl? A guy who is about a 6 point, 6 rebound bench player that can't get more than 18 MPG on a bad San Antonio club? He is your best solution for slowing down Giannis, Embiid and other dominant bigs and keeping them off the offensive boards?

Okay

If I remember right, Williams outplayed Poetl last time they met.

That's the difference between the regular season and the playoffs, you can get away with it once, but can you do it 4 times?

The playoffs is all about adjustments.

If you guys also don't want Poeltl then let's just say a "quality big man".

One thing's for sure, Ainge can't let the Celts go into the playoffs without addressing the big man issue.

Actually, it's not for sure, it's just your opinion. If their offense gets everyone healthy, they could get so good everyone would have to adjust to them. It's the old Lombardi football idea. Don't worry about/ adjust to what the opponent is doing, just do what you do so well, the opponents have to worry about/adjust to you. That's what champions do.

If you're talking about the Patriots then that's true.

But this year's Celtics team is not a champion team yet.

So saying "what champions do" does not yet apply to this Celts team.
Brad Stevens has yet to make it to the Finals.

Against the Cavs, the Celts allowed the Cavs to get 18 offensive rebounds, 8 from Tristan.
It didn't matter because the Cavs are a bad team.
Try letting playoff teams get 18 offensive rebounds against the Celts in the playoffs, I'm sure it will not end well for the Celts.

Obviously you aren't comprehending the concept here. You don't have to be a champion to have a team philosophy of a champion.

The concept here is play your game and play it to the best of your abilities and if you do so well enough, you can have some flaws and still win. Play your game so well that the opposition has to adjust to you not you adjusting to them. Play small ball so we'll, the other team has to go small to and play a game they aren't used to playing.

The Celtics are doing that and are 17-5, while also being 7-4 against teams currently slotted into the playoffs.

And if the Celtics don't win a title this year, guess what, they really weren't supposed to. This is a rebuild year given the team is the one of the youngest and least experienced in the NBA if not the youngest and least experienced in the league. This is a growth year.

With development and a whole off-season to add to the core, next year and beyond will most likely be the true contending years, not this year.

[Fierce1]

Sure was hoping Kanter was going to be the rebounder.  Apparently not.  They need a guy.  Once the big 5 is together I really think all scoring is taken care of.  I really think those 5 can average 85-90 points.  After that little scoring is needed as they will play at least 2 of those 5 all game.  POst D and rebounding is the biggest weakness.

Kanter has been excellent rebounding. He just doesn't get many minutes because he's so bad defensively.

Adding another big at almost any cost as some want to do might seem ideal in some regards, but not if it costs one of our key players. We are one of if not the only team in the league that can get a mismatch almost constantly. We would lose a lot of that by trading, say, Hayward. And just like that what makes this team unique and difficult to defend would be gone.

Agree.

Hayward will not be going anywhere any time soon.

A small move like getting a guy like Poeltl is the best solution.

You have been incessant in your view that the Celtics go nowhere in the post season if they don't get a big to deal with Giannis, the Lopez brothers, Embiid, Anthony Davis and other bigs and you think the best solution is getting Jakob Poeltl?

Jakob Poeltl? A guy who is about a 6 point, 6 rebound bench player that can't get more than 18 MPG on a bad San Antonio club? He is your best solution for slowing down Giannis, Embiid and other dominant bigs and keeping them off the offensive boards?

Okay

Or Tristan Thompson! Who we'd have to trade basically our entire big-man rotation for...

Not if we sign him via the buyout market though.

Thompson is on a $18,539,130 expiring contract. It's possible that the Cavs won't find a team willing to match salaries for him and they end up cutting him. I mean, they have the 3rd worst record in the NBA right now (5-18).

There's already talk of Toronto wanting to bring Tristan back home to Canada.

So why would Tristan choose Boston over Canada?

The problem with the buyout market is it's going to be a bidding war and the Celts only have the vet's minimum to offer right now.

All the cap space money remaining was given to Poirier.

Cause he'll be a starter for us and the C's are likely to make a deap playoff run.

The Raps have Gasol-Ibaka at the 5. I get that Gasol is struggling this season, but I highly doubt they would trade him for Thompson. The same goes for the Lakers (Howard-McGee are both playing great this season, plus AD can provide cover at the 5 as well), the Heat (Bam), you name it. If Thompson wants to play big minutes in the playoffs with a view to maximizing his value in free agency, we might be the ideal fit for him.

Not saying we would be favorites to sign him. Just saying that imo we would have a legit chance.

Too risky IMO.

If the Celts don't do anything and gamble on the buyout market, Celts could end up getting nothing.

Also, Tristan has significant trade value right now.
There will be a team who will give up assets for Tristan.

It's not like Tristan is old or damaged goods.

Tristan is just 28 years old.