If the Celts are going to make a blockbuster...

[liam]

I'm not even seeing an available trade target that makes us better for what we'd have to give up. Maybe a small tweak for a vet for one of the rookies but I'm not sure how much it moves the needle. Needs are a defensive big and a shooter off the bench. Maybe some buy out guys could fill the bill.

[nickagneta]

There are some Celtics fans so obsessed with "big men" and the way the game was played was played in the 80s that they won't shut up about a Center until they see some 7'0"(6'10" in Drummond's case) plodding dinosaur in the middle for the Celtics. And they willingly want to blow up the good young team we have now for their mythical BigFoot. Thankfully Aingie isn't going to trade players like Tatum, Smart, or Hayward.

There are also some who, for whatever reason, don't realize you need a productive center in order to win a championship.

Did all those Miami and GSW teams have a productive center? I don't think they did unless you count those teams using their PFs at center.

Miami had Chris Bosh and a Lebron who basically reached his peak as the best player in the game during his Miami days.

I still have nightmares about game 6 in the 2012 ECF (especially consdering I was there.)

As for GSW, shooters like Curry and Thompson are a very breed.

Then you admit, teams can win titles without productive centers.

Also, just want to point out that combined our three centers are averaging:

51 MPG
17.9 PPG
17.2 RPG
2.2 SPG
3.1 BPG

Or in 48 mins 16.8 points, 16.1 rebounds, 2 steals and 3 blocks a game. Even if one singular player doesn't have great stats, as a center unit, they appear to be rather productive.

I'd be curious to see how you did those calculations.  Is that a straight sum of Kanter+Theis+RWIII?  If C's are really getting 18/17 with 3 bpg out of our center position then obviously we don't need a trade and should instead be talking about how well our 3-headed monster is working, not trading for a center.  The fact that you have 51mpg implies that some of those minutes are for PF slot.

Not trying to be over-critical, in fact the numbers are quite interesting.

Just added their numbers. Then fixed them so they reflected a 48 minute game. Since all three regularly play center every game when healthy, I figured it would be interesting to see what they do combined in a game.

Let's look at the last few games where all three played:

Vs Denver
46 minutes, 15 points, 8 rebounds, 1 blocks, 1 steals

Vs Miami
52 minutes, 13 points, 21 rebounds, 4 blocks, 1 steals

Vs New York
40 minutes, 16 points, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks, 0 steals

Vs Brooklyn
45 minutes, 18 points, 14 rebounds, 2 blocks, 2 steals

Vs Brooklyn
48 minutes, 18 points, 16 rebounds, 2 blocks, 5 steals

All three playing give you some decent production from the three headed center monster.

I think the more pertinent question isnt "Are they productive during the regular season" but rather "Are they good enough in the playoffs" and I don't think its crazy to if you think the answer is "No." The playoffs are a very different animal, teams spend a lot more time in preparation for an opponent and spend more time on exploiting a weakness. Having to play a team 4-7 times leaves you far more vulnerable to a specific weakness dooming your team, and its entirely possible that facing Embiid or Giannis without a defensive big would be a fatal flaw.

Now I don't KNOW for sure it will be the C's undoing, but it very well could be. Its also entirely possible given the C's salary structure that they have no choice other than to hope it works out.

It's also possible that most teams in a 4-7 game series versus Boston are going to have tremendous trouble shutting down the Celtics three wing circus.

As much as the C's might struggle to defend some bigs, if their offense causes enough trouble, other teams are going to have to adjust to the Celtics to win every bit as much the Celtics would need to adjust to their big players. And their adjustment probably means those teams go small.

It's just going to be a matter of who forces who to adjust.

And as you say, the salary situation pretty much makes the point moot. Ainge isn't trading any of the top 5 players and the salary just isn't there to get someone that is demonstrably better than what we get from mixing and matching Theis, Williams and Kanter.

[Fierce1]

There are some Celtics fans so obsessed with "big men" and the way the game was played was played in the 80s that they won't shut up about a Center until they see some 7'0"(6'10" in Drummond's case) plodding dinosaur in the middle for the Celtics. And they willingly want to blow up the good young team we have now for their mythical BigFoot. Thankfully Aingie isn't going to trade players like Tatum, Smart, or Hayward.

There are also some who, for whatever reason, don't realize you need a productive center in order to win a championship.

Did all those Miami and GSW teams have a productive center? I don't think they did unless you count those teams using their PFs at center.

Right now the Celts don't even have a real PF that they can use as a Center.

And right now, Tatum, a wing player, is leading the Celts in rebounding.

Clearly the Celts have a big man problem.
I mean the wing player is leading the team in rebounds?

Whether the Celts get a big like Drummond or someone like Poeltl, it's very clear the Celts need to address the big man problem before the playoffs start.

It's just too big of a risk to rely solely on Marcus Smart to defend guys like Embiid and Giannis.

Is it really a problem?  They're 16-5 with the piecemealing so far and outside of a couple of opposing team matchups, it hasn't really been an issue at all. 

What realistic blockbuster trade is out there for a big man that wouldn't gut the depth of this Celtics team?  What trade is a bonafide slam dunk to put the team over the top?  I just don't see it.  Piece-mealing it has been fine so far.  I remember people wanting to move Jaylen for Serge Ibaka years  ago because people wanted a big man.  That would've been disasterous.

Getting a guy like Poeltl won't gut the depth of the Celts.

I don't know what the Spurs would be asking for, but most probably it will be draft picks.

[Donoghus]

There are some Celtics fans so obsessed with "big men" and the way the game was played was played in the 80s that they won't shut up about a Center until they see some 7'0"(6'10" in Drummond's case) plodding dinosaur in the middle for the Celtics. And they willingly want to blow up the good young team we have now for their mythical BigFoot. Thankfully Aingie isn't going to trade players like Tatum, Smart, or Hayward.

There are also some who, for whatever reason, don't realize you need a productive center in order to win a championship.

Did all those Miami and GSW teams have a productive center? I don't think they did unless you count those teams using their PFs at center.

Right now the Celts don't even have a real PF that they can use as a Center.

And right now, Tatum, a wing player, is leading the Celts in rebounding.

Clearly the Celts have a big man problem.
I mean the wing player is leading the team in rebounds?

Whether the Celts get a big like Drummond or someone like Poeltl, it's very clear the Celts need to address the big man problem before the playoffs start.

It's just too big of a risk to rely solely on Marcus Smart to defend guys like Embiid and Giannis.

Is it really a problem?  They're 16-5 with the piecemealing so far and outside of a couple of opposing team matchups, it hasn't really been an issue at all. 

What realistic blockbuster trade is out there for a big man that wouldn't gut the depth of this Celtics team?  What trade is a bonafide slam dunk to put the team over the top?  I just don't see it.  Piece-mealing it has been fine so far.  I remember people wanting to move Jaylen for Serge Ibaka years  ago because people wanted a big man.  That would've been disasterous.

Getting a guy like Poeltl won't gut the depth of the Celts.

I don't know what the Spurs would be asking for, but most probably it will be draft picks.

What's Poeltl gonna give you that you're not already getting from Theis right now besides an additional few inches?

[Fierce1]

There are some Celtics fans so obsessed with "big men" and the way the game was played was played in the 80s that they won't shut up about a Center until they see some 7'0"(6'10" in Drummond's case) plodding dinosaur in the middle for the Celtics. And they willingly want to blow up the good young team we have now for their mythical BigFoot. Thankfully Aingie isn't going to trade players like Tatum, Smart, or Hayward.

There are also some who, for whatever reason, don't realize you need a productive center in order to win a championship.

Did all those Miami and GSW teams have a productive center? I don't think they did unless you count those teams using their PFs at center.

Miami had Chris Bosh and a Lebron who basically reached his peak as the best player in the game during his Miami days.

I still have nightmares about game 6 in the 2012 ECF (especially consdering I was there.)

As for GSW, shooters like Curry and Thompson are a very breed.

Then you admit, teams can win titles without productive centers.

Also, just want to point out that combined our three centers are averaging:

51 MPG
17.9 PPG
17.2 RPG
2.2 SPG
3.1 BPG

Or in 48 mins 16.8 points, 16.1 rebounds, 2 steals and 3 blocks a game. Even if one singular player doesn't have great stats, as a center unit, they appear to be rather productive.

I don't think production is the problem.
It's the defense that's lacking.

Theis is very good if the opposing teams don't have a big man like Embiid or Jarrett Allen.
It's not Theis' fault that he's only 6-8.

Kanter comes in and he always gets points and rebounds.
The problem with Kanter is he's so bad on defense.
Opposing guards always get to the rim because Kanter just doesn't know how defend when he's forced to switch.

I think the stats you should look at is how many points and rebounds the opposing Center got.

DeAndre and Jarrett burned the Celts for 22 points and 22 rebounds combined.
That's why the Celts lost.

If the consensus is not to trade Kemba, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, and Smart, at least make a move to get a bigger big man who can defend.

When the Celtics lost to the Nets on 11/29 by 5 on the road, Tatum had a good game, but Walker and Smart were both terrible, and Jaylen Brown only got 8 shots. Theis played 7 minutes in that game.

While it is fair to claim that our centers were outplayed, its hard to see that as the primary reason for the loss.

Imagine if the Celts have to play the Nets in the 1st round.

That's the reason why the regular season is different from the playoffs.

Celts would certainly need to be shooting well all the time just to offset the impact of the Nets big men.

If the Celts don't shoot well then they lose.

But if the Celts have that quality big man, Celts can still beat the Nets, even if the Celts don't shoot well, because the Nets big men won't be dominating the Celts in the paint.

[Fierce1]

There are some Celtics fans so obsessed with "big men" and the way the game was played was played in the 80s that they won't shut up about a Center until they see some 7'0"(6'10" in Drummond's case) plodding dinosaur in the middle for the Celtics. And they willingly want to blow up the good young team we have now for their mythical BigFoot. Thankfully Aingie isn't going to trade players like Tatum, Smart, or Hayward.

There are also some who, for whatever reason, don't realize you need a productive center in order to win a championship.

Did all those Miami and GSW teams have a productive center? I don't think they did unless you count those teams using their PFs at center.

Right now the Celts don't even have a real PF that they can use as a Center.

And right now, Tatum, a wing player, is leading the Celts in rebounding.

Clearly the Celts have a big man problem.
I mean the wing player is leading the team in rebounds?

Whether the Celts get a big like Drummond or someone like Poeltl, it's very clear the Celts need to address the big man problem before the playoffs start.

It's just too big of a risk to rely solely on Marcus Smart to defend guys like Embiid and Giannis.

Is it really a problem?  They're 16-5 with the piecemealing so far and outside of a couple of opposing team matchups, it hasn't really been an issue at all. 

What realistic blockbuster trade is out there for a big man that wouldn't gut the depth of this Celtics team?  What trade is a bonafide slam dunk to put the team over the top?  I just don't see it.  Piece-mealing it has been fine so far.  I remember people wanting to move Jaylen for Serge Ibaka years  ago because people wanted a big man.  That would've been disasterous.

Getting a guy like Poeltl won't gut the depth of the Celts.

I don't know what the Spurs would be asking for, but most probably it will be draft picks.

What's Poeltl gonna give you that you're not already getting from Theis right now besides an additional few inches?

The few inches also means longer wingspan.

What that means is guys like Jarrett Allen and DeAndre Jordan won't be going over Poeltl's head like what they did to Theis.

It's easier to out-jump someone who's shorter than you than trying to out-jump someone who's as tall as you.

During GSW's championship run, they always had guys like Bogut and Pachulia to somewhat contain opposing bigs.

It's true that in today's NBA, you really don't need an MVP type big man to win a championship.
But you can't also win a championship if your best big man is only 6-8.

[hwangjini_1]

There are some Celtics fans so obsessed with "big men" and the way the game was played was played in the 80s that they won't shut up about a Center until they see some 7'0"(6'10" in Drummond's case) plodding dinosaur in the middle for the Celtics. And they willingly want to blow up the good young team we have now for their mythical BigFoot. Thankfully Aingie isn't going to trade players like Tatum, Smart, or Hayward.

There are also some who, for whatever reason, don't realize you need a productive center in order to win a championship.

Did all those Miami and GSW teams have a productive center? I don't think they did unless you count those teams using their PFs at center.

Right now the Celts don't even have a real PF that they can use as a Center.

And right now, Tatum, a wing player, is leading the Celts in rebounding.

Clearly the Celts have a big man problem.
I mean the wing player is leading the team in rebounds?

Whether the Celts get a big like Drummond or someone like Poeltl, it's very clear the Celts need to address the big man problem before the playoffs start.

It's just too big of a risk to rely solely on Marcus Smart to defend guys like Embiid and Giannis.

Is it really a problem?  They're 16-5 with the piecemealing so far and outside of a couple of opposing team matchups, it hasn't really been an issue at all. 

What realistic blockbuster trade is out there for a big man that wouldn't gut the depth of this Celtics team?  What trade is a bonafide slam dunk to put the team over the top?  I just don't see it.  Piece-mealing it has been fine so far.  I remember people wanting to move Jaylen for Serge Ibaka years  ago because people wanted a big man.  That would've been disasterous.

Getting a guy like Poeltl won't gut the depth of the Celts.

I don't know what the Spurs would be asking for, but most probably it will be draft picks.

What's Poeltl gonna give you that you're not already getting from Theis right now besides an additional few inches?

The few inches also means longer wingspan.

What that means is guys like Jarrett Allen and DeAndre Jordan won't be going over Poeltl's head like what they did to Theis.

It's easier to out-jump someone who's shorter than you than trying to out-jump someone who's as tall as you.

During GSW's championship run, they always had guys like Bogut and Pachulia to somewhat contain opposing bigs.

It's true that in today's NBA, you really don't need an MVP type big man to win a championship.
But you can't also win a championship if your best big man is only 6-8.

first, longer arm span does not always provide a higher standing reach. but that is a small point.

if you want standing reach, then the celtics have it already. Poeltl standing reach is 9'3.5". timelord standing reach is 9'4".

[Fierce1]

I'm sure if Theis and Poeltl will stand side by side and they both raise both of their hands, I'm sure the difference in reach will be closer to a foot than just a few inches.

That's the difference between a 6-8 player and a 7-footer.

[Fierce1]

There are some Celtics fans so obsessed with "big men" and the way the game was played was played in the 80s that they won't shut up about a Center until they see some 7'0"(6'10" in Drummond's case) plodding dinosaur in the middle for the Celtics. And they willingly want to blow up the good young team we have now for their mythical BigFoot. Thankfully Aingie isn't going to trade players like Tatum, Smart, or Hayward.

There are also some who, for whatever reason, don't realize you need a productive center in order to win a championship.

Did all those Miami and GSW teams have a productive center? I don't think they did unless you count those teams using their PFs at center.

Right now the Celts don't even have a real PF that they can use as a Center.

And right now, Tatum, a wing player, is leading the Celts in rebounding.

Clearly the Celts have a big man problem.
I mean the wing player is leading the team in rebounds?

Whether the Celts get a big like Drummond or someone like Poeltl, it's very clear the Celts need to address the big man problem before the playoffs start.

It's just too big of a risk to rely solely on Marcus Smart to defend guys like Embiid and Giannis.

Is it really a problem?  They're 16-5 with the piecemealing so far and outside of a couple of opposing team matchups, it hasn't really been an issue at all. 

What realistic blockbuster trade is out there for a big man that wouldn't gut the depth of this Celtics team?  What trade is a bonafide slam dunk to put the team over the top?  I just don't see it.  Piece-mealing it has been fine so far.  I remember people wanting to move Jaylen for Serge Ibaka years  ago because people wanted a big man.  That would've been disasterous.

Getting a guy like Poeltl won't gut the depth of the Celts.

I don't know what the Spurs would be asking for, but most probably it will be draft picks.

What's Poeltl gonna give you that you're not already getting from Theis right now besides an additional few inches?

The few inches also means longer wingspan.

What that means is guys like Jarrett Allen and DeAndre Jordan won't be going over Poeltl's head like what they did to Theis.

It's easier to out-jump someone who's shorter than you than trying to out-jump someone who's as tall as you.

During GSW's championship run, they always had guys like Bogut and Pachulia to somewhat contain opposing bigs.

It's true that in today's NBA, you really don't need an MVP type big man to win a championship.
But you can't also win a championship if your best big man is only 6-8.

first, longer arm span does not always provide a higher standing reach. but that is a small point.

if you want standing reach, then the celtics have it already. Poeltl standing reach is 9'3.5". timelord standing reach is 9'4".

No doubt RWill is the big man of the Celtics for the future.

I will not disagree with you on that.

But here's the thing, with all the player movement that happened last summer, the east is weaker this season compared to last season.

That means the only real threat is the Bucks.

So the Celts really have a chance at getting to the Finals.

Right now the difference between Poeltl and RWill is experience.
Poeltl will make less mistakes in the playoffs than RWill.

RWill just makes too many mistakes at this point in time.

But yeah, the future big of the Celts is RWill, there's no doubt about that.

[nickagneta]

Yay!!!!! Potlt is tall. Now only if he was good enough to be worth bringing in and making a difference, because he is not a difference maker. Heck, I am not sure is an an actual better basketball player than any of our three centers. Actually, I don't think he is.

[Donoghus]

Yay!!!!! Potlt is tall. Now only if he was good enough to be worth bringing in and making a difference, because he is not a difference maker. Heck, I am not sure is an an actual better basketball player than any of our three centers. Actually, I don't think he is.

Yup.  I'm not seeing much, if any, of an upgrade right now.

[Fierce1]

Yay!!!!! Potlt is tall. Now only if he was good enough to be worth bringing in and making a difference, because he is not a difference maker. Heck, I am not sure is an an actual better basketball player than any of our three centers. Actually, I don't think he is.

But if it will only cost the Celts Poirier and a draft pick, you still wouldn't do it?

Celts won't have to trade Kanter, Theis, and RWill.

Poeltl will just replace Poirier.

The question is what draft pick will the Spurs be asking for.

[Fierce1]

Yay!!!!! Potlt is tall. Now only if he was good enough to be worth bringing in and making a difference, because he is not a difference maker. Heck, I am not sure is an an actual better basketball player than any of our three centers. Actually, I don't think he is.

Yup.  I'm not seeing much, if any, of an upgrade right now.

From Poirier to Poeltl is not an upgrade?

[Donoghus]

Yay!!!!! Potlt is tall. Now only if he was good enough to be worth bringing in and making a difference, because he is not a difference maker. Heck, I am not sure is an an actual better basketball player than any of our three centers. Actually, I don't think he is.

Yup.  I'm not seeing much, if any, of an upgrade right now.

From Poirier to Poeltl is not an upgrade?

You still have Theis, Wiliams, & Kanter on the roster.  Who is Poetl spelling?  Where's he getting the minutes.

[Fierce1]

Yay!!!!! Potlt is tall. Now only if he was good enough to be worth bringing in and making a difference, because he is not a difference maker. Heck, I am not sure is an an actual better basketball player than any of our three centers. Actually, I don't think he is.

Yup.  I'm not seeing much, if any, of an upgrade right now.

From Poirier to Poeltl is not an upgrade?

You still have Theis, Wiliams, & Kanter on the roster.  Who is Poetl spelling?  Where's he getting the minutes.

Let them fight it out in practice.

Right now Poeltl is better than RWill because Poeltl has more experience and will make less mistakes.

Poeltl is also better than Kanter on the defensive end.

So let Brad figure it out.