Carmelo Anthony on the trading block? Would you trade Rondo for Melo?( POLL)

[Moranis]

Absolutely witout question without giving it a second thought.  This is a no brainer.  

Melo is the better player.  Melo plays a position that historically is far more important to winning titles.  Melo is still young and in his prime.  Melo provides a much better base to attract future players.  

  Aside from the fact that the "historical importance of positions" is basically bunk, how would small forward be historically more important than pg? When's the last time a small forward besides Larry Bird been the best player on a title team? Has it ever happened? Has any team with a really good small forward (aside from Pierce) won a title in the last 12 years?

in the last 12 years, no, but I don't see teams with really good PG's winning in that period either.  

Billups was really good for Detroit, though not historically good.

billups was Detroit's 4th best player the year they won the title.

[ajgoodman]

Absolutely witout question without giving it a second thought.  This is a no brainer.  

Melo is the better player.  Melo plays a position that historically is far more important to winning titles.  Melo is still young and in his prime.  Melo provides a much better base to attract future players.  

  Aside from the fact that the "historical importance of positions" is basically bunk, how would small forward be historically more important than pg? When's the last time a small forward besides Larry Bird been the best player on a title team? Has it ever happened? Has any team with a really good small forward (aside from Pierce) won a title in the last 12 years?

in the last 12 years, no, but I don't see teams with really good PG's winning in that period either.  

Billups was really good for Detroit, though not historically good.

billups was Detroit's 4th best player the year they won the title.

Fourth best? That's not very generous.

[tenn_smoothie]

Yeah good mix there w/ Iverson and Melo. 

allen iverson and carmelo anthony in celtic green ?


to quote one of my all time favorite Celtics, Charlie Scott, when he commented on a certain teammate who played power forward in Boston way back in 1977 ...............


"He ain't a Celtic"

[Mr October]

- Position importance is most assuredly not bunk.

  For players under 6'10", it pretty much is.

I'm coming around on this. When it comes to winning titles the only position that carries 'positional importance' is center and a legit big PF. If you can get a top 5 big man overall, then its a heck of a lot easier to build pieces around him.

So, yeah, I'd trade Rondo for Anthony. Rondo may be a 16-20th best player in the NBA, but Anthony is legit top 10. He's arguably as high as top 4 or 5.

[Moranis]

Tony Parker is the only PG to win a NBA title in the same year he was an all star since Isiah Thomas' Pistons won back to back titles.

Until Rondo this season, Jason Kidd (twice) and John Stockton (once) are the only PG's to even appear in the finals in the same year they were an all star since Isiah Thomas in 87/88.


EDIT: I was doing this off of memory as I had looked it up in the past.  It is possible I forgot someone.

[Moranis]

Absolutely witout question without giving it a second thought.  This is a no brainer.  

Melo is the better player.  Melo plays a position that historically is far more important to winning titles.  Melo is still young and in his prime.  Melo provides a much better base to attract future players.  

  Aside from the fact that the "historical importance of positions" is basically bunk, how would small forward be historically more important than pg? When's the last time a small forward besides Larry Bird been the best player on a title team? Has it ever happened? Has any team with a really good small forward (aside from Pierce) won a title in the last 12 years?

in the last 12 years, no, but I don't see teams with really good PG's winning in that period either.  

Billups was really good for Detroit, though not historically good.

billups was Detroit's 4th best player the year they won the title.

Fourth best? That's not very generous.

may not be generous, but it was very accurate.  Hamilton, Wallace, and Wallace were all better then Billups during the title run.  By the time Billups was traded he was the best player on his team, but he was not when they won the title.

[ajgoodman]

Tony Parker is the only PG to win a NBA title in the same year he was an all star since Isiah Thomas' Pistons won back to back titles.

Until Rondo this season, Jason Kidd (twice) and John Stockton (once) are the only PG's to even appear in the finals in the same year they were an all star since Isiah Thomas in 87/88.

A Tommy Point for you, sir. Great statistic.

[Birdbrain]

Yeah good mix there w/ Iverson and Melo. 

allen iverson and carmelo anthony in celtic green ?


to quote one of my all time favorite Celtics, Charlie Scott, when he commented on a couple of his teammates way back in 1977 ...............


"He ain't a Celtic"

Yeah my comment was sarcasm so we agree on those 2.  Of course I felt same way about Sheed last year as well.  Not sure if I was proven right or wrong about him in the end...

[Moranis]

Tony Parker is the only PG to win a NBA title in the same year he was an all star since Isiah Thomas' Pistons won back to back titles.

Until Rondo this season, Jason Kidd (twice) and John Stockton (once) are the only PG's to even appear in the finals in the same year they were an all star since Isiah Thomas in 87/88.

A Tommy Point for you, sir. Great statistic.

And it was only the last Spurs title that Parker was an all star.  The first two titles he won, he was not an all star.

[ajgoodman]

Tony Parker is the only PG to win a NBA title in the same year he was an all star since Isiah Thomas' Pistons won back to back titles.

Until Rondo this season, Jason Kidd (twice) and John Stockton (once) are the only PG's to even appear in the finals in the same year they were an all star since Isiah Thomas in 87/88.

A Tommy Point for you, sir. Great statistic.

And it was only the last Spurs title that Parker was an all star.  The first two titles he won, he was not an all star.

And it's not like he was "the man" either...

[Birdbrain]

Tony Parker is the only PG to win a NBA title in the same year he was an all star since Isiah Thomas' Pistons won back to back titles.

Until Rondo this season, Jason Kidd (twice) and John Stockton (once) are the only PG's to even appear in the finals in the same year they were an all star since Isiah Thomas in 87/88.


EDIT: I was doing this off of memory as I had looked it up in the past.  It is possible I forgot someone.

Yeah like why did you stop at 87 and I guess Stockton losing some finals to Jordan doesn't count.  Also I'm having a hard time believing Magic didn't go to AS game in 88, 89, or 90.  Gary Payton and KJ lost to Jordan as well...

I think your stat has some holes.

[Scribbles]

I agree with what Moranis is saying in a sense, not about trading Rondo for Melo, but that point guards as your main building piece don't win championships. Its very rare for a team to win a championship when built around a point guard. It can happen but its not very likely.  Here is a link I found that seemed like they did their research on the subject. 

http://www.hornets247.com/journals/2010/01/27/can-a-team-build-a-championship-contender-around-a-point-guard

So there it is, 62+ years of NBA history, and three teams won championships with the PG being the centerpiece. Those teams won a total of 6 titles, so there is hope.

The only other team I can think of that you could make a case for would be the teams in Detroit that Billups played on, but they weren't really a title contender until they got Rasheed in  that midseason trade. 

[ManUp]

I should probably say yes, but I'm gonna go with no. I think Rondo has been groomed into a winner he has learned to affect the game on more levels than Carmelo. Melo is a 1 trick pony, although it's a very good trick. I think Rondo can be a Nash type player, making mediocre players good, good players great and great players champions.

[Who]

No.


Celtics need to keep Rondo if they trade for Melo so he signs an extension.



Sign and trade Pierce if you want Melo.  Pierce gets to stay with a contender and get the max money (something I don't think the Celtics want to do)

Denver stays a contender out West.

agree
my vote is no
rondos upside is incredible if he reaches his full potential
he is the sort of player who will make everyone better, cannot say that about melo

What do you think Rondo's full potential is? What do you think Melo's full potential is?

I think Melo's full potential, if he reaches it, is better than Pierce.

It is so easy to throw around the word "potential", but we need to be realistic in our projections.

I think Melo has a higher ceiling but is very unlikely to ever fulfill his potential.

I think Rondo's potential is very good + has a fair chance (50-50) of surpassing Melo when it's all said and done.

[BballTim]

Absolutely witout question without giving it a second thought.  This is a no brainer.  

Melo is the better player.  Melo plays a position that historically is far more important to winning titles.  Melo is still young and in his prime.  Melo provides a much better base to attract future players.  

  Aside from the fact that the "historical importance of positions" is basically bunk, how would small forward be historically more important than pg? When's the last time a small forward besides Larry Bird been the best player on a title team? Has it ever happened? Has any team with a really good small forward (aside from Pierce) won a title in the last 12 years?

in the last 12 years, no, but I don't see teams with really good PG's winning in that period either.  

Billups was really good for Detroit, though not historically good.

billups was Detroit's 4th best player the year they won the title.

Fourth best? That's not very generous.

may not be generous, but it was very accurate.  Hamilton, Wallace, and Wallace were all better then Billups during the title run.  By the time Billups was traded he was the best player on his team, but he was not when they won the title.

  No, Billups wasn't 4th best. And all I'm seeing is "you can win a title without a great point guard". I agree. You can also win a title without a good/great shooting guard. You can also win a title without a good/great small forward. Which was my point. Great players at any spot can bring you a title (Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq). Lacking a player of that magnitude you need a top big and a few other very good players. Those players can be point guards, small forwards, shooting guards, or one of those and another Big. It doesn't matter.

  It's also worth pointing out that the last 2 point guards to win finals mvps in the last 20 years (Billups and Parker) weren't the best (or arguably the best) player on their respective teams. They're the only players in the last 20 years that really fit that category. While you basically dismiss these because "they weren't the best player on those teams", it's also a sign that point guards are able to make more of an impact on those playoff series than their skill level dictates they should.

  If Pippin hadn't been fortunate enough to have MJ on his team than, aside from Pierce, those "historically significant" small forwards wouldn't have an elite player (besides possibly PP) win the title in the last 20 years.