CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: johnnygreen on February 19, 2018, 02:32:00 PM
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ESPN ran an article, asking 48 NBA players where they think certain players (mostly LeBron) will end up in the summer of 2018. The one question that drew my interest was the last one which asked, "Which team have you heard makes the best free-agent pitches?" The Celtics lead with 27% of the vote. Now I know having only 48 players vote is an extremely small sample size, but I'll take it for this discussion. The last two off seasons, Danny has managed to get two premier free-agents. Danny also managed to trade for an arguably top 15 player in Irving too. What this holds in the future, I do not know, but I like how players in the league have taken notice of the Celtics regarding free agency.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22467429/nba-pros-dish-2018-summer-lebron-demarcus-okc
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The biggest part of making a great pitch is having something worth pitching. We have one of the best young coaches in the NBA, one of the best GMs in the NBA, and one of the most storied and successful franchises in all of sports.
That's a pretty easy package to sell.
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Which team have you heard makes the best free-agent pitches?
Celtics: 27 percent
Heat: 15 percent
Lakers: 12 percent
Warriors: 9 percent
Other: 37 percent
Others gaining votes: Clippers, Grizzlies, Hornets, Knicks, Mavericks, Pacers, Rockets, Spurs, Wizards
"Boston [has the best]. If you bring Tom Brady? That's pretty [dang] cool." -- Eastern Conference guard
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7 out of 11 questions on Lebron. If I was one of those NBA players, I would have told ESPN to stuff it after the 1st 3 or 4 questions.
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This implies that all the concern about being disloyal and trading guys like IT and Crowder, and even KG and Truth before that was overblown.
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It's just too bad it didn't work on KD.
Yeah I'm still kind of mad about it. I really thought we had him especially after bringing TB12 in, but then out of nowhere he just chooses the Warriors. Hell, I don't even think Warriors fans thought he was legitimately going to choose them until he actually did... :P
But anyways, this is fantastic to hear! 8)
I know it's an extreme long shot and would be complicated, but I'm hoping Anthony Davis at least dreams about playing here in Boston sometime in his career (hopefully sooner rather than later) and that Irving, Ainge, etc. are dropping some "hints" and "feelers" his way ;D
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You know what makes great in a pitch? $
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“And in other news, 27% if NBA players chose Tom Brady as the basketball player that they’d most like to meet.”
Mike
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I love the Celtics, but I was born here.
If I were a star, I'd go to a team that: 1) can win the whole thing, 2) has great weather, and 3) pays me a ton of $.
2/3 isn't bad!
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If I were a 21 year old entering the league I'd want a place with cold weather and blonde women or Irish Catholic women. 2nd most would be good community with fun stuff and food so Orlando would be surprisingly high on my list. Maybe San Fran. Stir stuff up there with my conservative views.
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Well, the Celtics won't be making a pitch at a major free agent anytime soon, so I am not sure this makes a difference. Hopefully their pitches are so good they can add some quality with the MLE in the future.
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If I were a 21 year old entering the league I'd want a place with cold weather and blonde women or Irish Catholic women. 2nd most would be good community with fun stuff and food so Orlando would be surprisingly high on my list. Maybe San Fran. Stir stuff up there with my conservative views.
A place known for cold weather and blonde hair?
Where is that?
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This implies that all the concern about being disloyal and trading guys like IT and Crowder, and even KG and Truth before that was overblown.
It may be overblown but it’s a seperate thing from the pitch.
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This implies that all the concern about being disloyal and trading guys like IT and Crowder, and even KG and Truth before that was overblown.
It may be overblown but it’s a seperate thing from the pitch.
True. And ultimately, we’re talking about the opinion of 13 players out of roughly 450. Still, it’s not a bad thing in any sense.
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A place known for cold weather and blonde hair?
Where is that?
Sweden? 8)
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I never understood the whole weather thing. Is it really that big a deal? First off, nearly half the season you spend in the road in various climates. When you’re home, you drive everywhere, so what does it really matter (not like you’re walking/taking public in extreme conditions)? The offseason can run anywhere from 3-5 months depending on a playoff run, plenty of time to get your sun fix.
As for the city itself, I’m not a Bostonian but I’m tired of the racist narrative. The Celtics were the first team to draft an African-American AND the first to make one a head coach. This isn’t 40+ years ago. It’s a great city for any race or culture. Not every city is NYC, but you can find everything you need in the Boston area.
The reality is all you need to do is have them stand under all those banners. Show them clips like Celtics fans chanting “Let’s Go Celtics” for about 3 minutes straight as we are getting closed out. Show them how we welcome back our beloved stars. Have them sit down with DA, Wyc, and Brad and see they are all amongst the best in the league in their respective roles.
There is no franchise that compares to us. Not the Lakers. Not the Spurs. Not the Bulls or Warriors or any other flavor of a decade. We are the Boston Celtics. Putting on that white and green jersey is a basketball history lesson.
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A place known for cold weather and blonde hair?
Where is that?
Sweden? 8)
Timberwolves?
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The biggest part of making a great pitch is having something worth pitching.
Tommy Point for you! We hear so much about spin, but at the end of the day, if there's nothing to back up a great pitch, the guy on the other end knows it. You've gotta have the horses.
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I never understood the whole weather thing. Is it really that big a deal? First off, nearly half the season you spend in the road in various climates. When you’re home, you drive everywhere, so what does it really matter (not like you’re walking/taking public in extreme conditions)? The offseason can run anywhere from 3-5 months depending on a playoff run, plenty of time to get your sun fix.
As for the city itself, I’m not a Bostonian but I’m tired of the racist narrative. The Celtics were the first team to draft an African-American AND the first to make one a head coach. This isn’t 40+ years ago. It’s a great city for any race or culture. Not every city is NYC, but you can find everything you need in the Boston area.
The reality is all you need to do is have them stand under all those banners. Show them clips like Celtics fans chanting “Let’s Go Celtics” for about 3 minutes straight as we are getting closed out. Show them how we welcome back our beloved stars. Have them sit down with DA, Wyc, and Brad and see they are all amongst the best in the league in their respective roles.
There is no franchise that compares to us. Not the Lakers. Not the Spurs. Not the Bulls or Warriors or any other flavor of a decade. We are the Boston Celtics. Putting on that white and green jersey is a basketball history lesson.
weather absolutely makes a difference. Even if you just drive everywhere, why would you want to drive in a snow/ice storm when you can drive in perfect conditions. But not all of these guys drive everywhere. Lebron pretty famously rode a bicycle to games in Miami as a way to warm up. If you are staying in a downtown condo, why would you want to drive 2 minutes to the arena when you can walk there (with security of course). Aside from the players themselves, many of these players have families with kids who may not drive everywhere all the time as well.
It is nice to think all those great things about the Celtics, but the Boston Celtics have won exactly 1 title in the last 31 seasons (this year will make 32 if no title). There are becoming increasingly fewer players that were even alive during the great 80's teams and the ones that were probably don't remember Larry Bird. Heck, the younger generation never even saw Jordan win the titles with the Bulls (and remember it). History is nice, but you can't just trot out history like it matters to the current players, it doesn't. Now thankfully Boston has a great young coach, is trending upward, etc., but without max dollars, Boston will be competing for the veteran minimum type players and in that market winning makes the most difference and there Boston likely comes up short at the present moment.
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I'd think income tax is also a strong factor.
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I'd think income tax is also a strong factor.
most definitely. Massachusetts is 5.1%. Florida and Texas are 0%. Who wouldn't like to have 5.1% more income every year (and I know it isn't exactly that, since they are paid based on where they work so away games count differently), but the point remains a state with no income tax is a big draw for that reason.
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I'd think income tax is also a strong factor.
most definitely. Massachusetts is 5.1%. Florida and Texas are 0%. Who wouldn't like to have 5.1% more income every year (and I know it isn't exactly that, since they are paid based on where they work so away games count differently), but the point remains a state with no income tax is a big draw for that reason.
Can you imagine the amount of work a tax lawyer or a CPA has to go through to prepare an NBA player's taxes? Good grief.
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I'd think income tax is also a strong factor.
most definitely. Massachusetts is 5.1%. Florida and Texas are 0%. Who wouldn't like to have 5.1% more income every year (and I know it isn't exactly that, since they are paid based on where they work so away games count differently), but the point remains a state with no income tax is a big draw for that reason.
Can you imagine the amount of work a tax lawyer or a CPA has to go through to prepare an NBA player's taxes? Good grief.
As someone who is currently studying and working in an accounting firm, I can attest that would get pretty complicated and annoying considering the wealth of sports athletes leads to more deductions, audits, financial statements, and preparing in advance for different state income taxes.
Even if you go out for a business dinner meeting, and someone foots the bill, you still have to claim that as part of a deduction which could be for 'Fringe Benefits, (100% deduction for the business),' or Meal and Entertainment, (which usually get 50% deduction.)
Even after accountants make sense of athlete clients’ taxes, their work is often not finished. Pro athletes are audited frequently, most likely because they claim unusual deductions, like payments to personal trainers and masseuses, said Brad Gastineau, tax manager at Gatto, Pope & Walwick in San Diego.
For an all-star accountant able to handle the pressure of keeping world-class athletes tax-compliant, the trophy is steady business.
“I had one client who was so pleased that he invited me to dinner with a bunch of his teammates, and I got some new business that way,” said Halpern, who handles taxes for 30 to 40 athletes each year. “I ended up with like nine Patriots.”
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this will really be put to the test the next couple of years. Lets see if the pitch is strong enough to get solid rotation players to fill out this roster as the team approaches luxury tax and loses cap flexibility. DA is going to have to do a lot with young cost controlled contracts, cap exceptions and min salary vets.
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I'd think income tax is also a strong factor.
most definitely. Massachusetts is 5.1%. Florida and Texas are 0%. Who wouldn't like to have 5.1% more income every year (and I know it isn't exactly that, since they are paid based on where they work so away games count differently), but the point remains a state with no income tax is a big draw for that reason.
Can you imagine the amount of work a tax lawyer or a CPA has to go through to prepare an NBA player's taxes? Good grief.
yeah, I mean anyone on the Celtics or Sixers, now has to account for not just the various states they play in, but also Canada every year, and for this year England as well.
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Back on subject. What has come out about what's impressive about the Celtics pitches is less about the city, the franchise and so forth but how prepared Ainge and Stevens are in discussing basketball and telling the players exactly how they would be used by showing game film and discussing the x's and o's of how the team works. I think that's often very important to players. More than the average fan would think.
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I never understood the whole weather thing. Is it really that big a deal? First off, nearly half the season you spend in the road in various climates. When you’re home, you drive everywhere, so what does it really matter (not like you’re walking/taking public in extreme conditions)? The offseason can run anywhere from 3-5 months depending on a playoff run, plenty of time to get your sun fix.
As for the city itself, I’m not a Bostonian but I’m tired of the racist narrative. The Celtics were the first team to draft an African-American AND the first to make one a head coach. This isn’t 40+ years ago. It’s a great city for any race or culture. Not every city is NYC, but you can find everything you need in the Boston area.
The reality is all you need to do is have them stand under all those banners. Show them clips like Celtics fans chanting “Let’s Go Celtics” for about 3 minutes straight as we are getting closed out. Show them how we welcome back our beloved stars. Have them sit down with DA, Wyc, and Brad and see they are all amongst the best in the league in their respective roles.
There is no franchise that compares to us. Not the Lakers. Not the Spurs. Not the Bulls or Warriors or any other flavor of a decade. We are the Boston Celtics. Putting on that white and green jersey is a basketball history lesson.
weather absolutely makes a difference. Even if you just drive everywhere, why would you want to drive in a snow/ice storm when you can drive in perfect conditions. But not all of these guys drive everywhere. Lebron pretty famously rode a bicycle to games in Miami as a way to warm up. If you are staying in a downtown condo, why would you want to drive 2 minutes to the arena when you can walk there (with security of course). Aside from the players themselves, many of these players have families with kids who may not drive everywhere all the time as well.
It is nice to think all those great things about the Celtics, but the Boston Celtics have won exactly 1 title in the last 31 seasons (this year will make 32 if no title). There are becoming increasingly fewer players that were even alive during the great 80's teams and the ones that were probably don't remember Larry Bird. Heck, the younger generation never even saw Jordan win the titles with the Bulls (and remember it). History is nice, but you can't just trot out history like it matters to the current players, it doesn't. Now thankfully Boston has a great young coach, is trending upward, etc., but without max dollars, Boston will be competing for the veteran minimum type players and in that market winning makes the most difference and there Boston likely comes up short at the present moment.
Give me a break. Have you ever driven in Los Angeles? Seriously. It is a nightmare 100% of the time. New York is even worse. I hear San Fran is terrible. Actually almost all cities are pretty bad. But the biggest ones are the worst.
As for the weather/driving conditions, you do realize these athletes can afford awesome 4WD cars? my **** Subaru Impreza dominates in the snow, and sometimes in my rural area I have to drive way further than a couple blocks/miles or whatever. And that's on winding roads. But i always feel pretty safe, and the weather here in Mine is worse than Boston.
On a side note, it's actually pretty easy having a good winter. Wear fleece-lined pants and spend some time outside. Keeping the legs warm makes literally all the difference. And spending some time outside is really refreshing. I used to take my dog for daily runs in 10-degree weather and we had a blast, his enthusiasm was infectious. You just gotta embrace it.
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Back on subject. What has come out about what's impressive about the Celtics pitches is less about the city, the franchise and so forth but how prepared Ainge and Stevens are in discussing basketball and telling the players exactly how they would be used by showing game film and discussing the x's and o's of how the team works. I think that's often very important to players. More than the average fan would think.
And that's why the system is so important. Play a system-based style and then you can plug in better talent when it's available, adjusting the system to strengths of course but players like to know they'll be put in a position to succeed.
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I never understood the whole weather thing. Is it really that big a deal? First off, nearly half the season you spend in the road in various climates. When you’re home, you drive everywhere, so what does it really matter (not like you’re walking/taking public in extreme conditions)? The offseason can run anywhere from 3-5 months depending on a playoff run, plenty of time to get your sun fix.
As for the city itself, I’m not a Bostonian but I’m tired of the racist narrative. The Celtics were the first team to draft an African-American AND the first to make one a head coach. This isn’t 40+ years ago. It’s a great city for any race or culture. Not every city is NYC, but you can find everything you need in the Boston area.
The reality is all you need to do is have them stand under all those banners. Show them clips like Celtics fans chanting “Let’s Go Celtics” for about 3 minutes straight as we are getting closed out. Show them how we welcome back our beloved stars. Have them sit down with DA, Wyc, and Brad and see they are all amongst the best in the league in their respective roles.
There is no franchise that compares to us. Not the Lakers. Not the Spurs. Not the Bulls or Warriors or any other flavor of a decade. We are the Boston Celtics. Putting on that white and green jersey is a basketball history lesson.
weather absolutely makes a difference. Even if you just drive everywhere, why would you want to drive in a snow/ice storm when you can drive in perfect conditions. But not all of these guys drive everywhere. Lebron pretty famously rode a bicycle to games in Miami as a way to warm up. If you are staying in a downtown condo, why would you want to drive 2 minutes to the arena when you can walk there (with security of course). Aside from the players themselves, many of these players have families with kids who may not drive everywhere all the time as well.
It is nice to think all those great things about the Celtics, but the Boston Celtics have won exactly 1 title in the last 31 seasons (this year will make 32 if no title). There are becoming increasingly fewer players that were even alive during the great 80's teams and the ones that were probably don't remember Larry Bird. Heck, the younger generation never even saw Jordan win the titles with the Bulls (and remember it). History is nice, but you can't just trot out history like it matters to the current players, it doesn't. Now thankfully Boston has a great young coach, is trending upward, etc., but without max dollars, Boston will be competing for the veteran minimum type players and in that market winning makes the most difference and there Boston likely comes up short at the present moment.
So this is all pretty negative stuff. Why do you the Celtics were able to sign one of the top 2-3 free agents the last 2 summers? Also, why is being alive when it happened relevant to approaching history. Do you think the NBA players don't care about Martin Luther King Jr. cause they weren't alive at the same time? Many many players (including your favorite, Lebron) regularly speak about being students of the game and studying NBA history. While maybe they weren't alive, they all know who Larry Bird is and appreciate the Celtics history. Here is one of literally thousands examples of this:
"James has a deep appreciation for the Celtics' history and mystique. He says that while playing in Boston he has looked toward the rafters to admire the retired jerseys and 17 championship banners."
http://www.cleveland19.com/story/35442780/lebron-james-wears-leprechaun-t-shirt-before-celtics-game
Why so negative about the Celtics like this? I really don't get it...
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I never understood the whole weather thing. Is it really that big a deal? First off, nearly half the season you spend in the road in various climates. When you’re home, you drive everywhere, so what does it really matter (not like you’re walking/taking public in extreme conditions)? The offseason can run anywhere from 3-5 months depending on a playoff run, plenty of time to get your sun fix.
As for the city itself, I’m not a Bostonian but I’m tired of the racist narrative. The Celtics were the first team to draft an African-American AND the first to make one a head coach. This isn’t 40+ years ago. It’s a great city for any race or culture. Not every city is NYC, but you can find everything you need in the Boston area.
The reality is all you need to do is have them stand under all those banners. Show them clips like Celtics fans chanting “Let’s Go Celtics” for about 3 minutes straight as we are getting closed out. Show them how we welcome back our beloved stars. Have them sit down with DA, Wyc, and Brad and see they are all amongst the best in the league in their respective roles.
There is no franchise that compares to us. Not the Lakers. Not the Spurs. Not the Bulls or Warriors or any other flavor of a decade. We are the Boston Celtics. Putting on that white and green jersey is a basketball history lesson.
weather absolutely makes a difference. Even if you just drive everywhere, why would you want to drive in a snow/ice storm when you can drive in perfect conditions. But not all of these guys drive everywhere. Lebron pretty famously rode a bicycle to games in Miami as a way to warm up. If you are staying in a downtown condo, why would you want to drive 2 minutes to the arena when you can walk there (with security of course). Aside from the players themselves, many of these players have families with kids who may not drive everywhere all the time as well.
It is nice to think all those great things about the Celtics, but the Boston Celtics have won exactly 1 title in the last 31 seasons (this year will make 32 if no title). There are becoming increasingly fewer players that were even alive during the great 80's teams and the ones that were probably don't remember Larry Bird. Heck, the younger generation never even saw Jordan win the titles with the Bulls (and remember it). History is nice, but you can't just trot out history like it matters to the current players, it doesn't. Now thankfully Boston has a great young coach, is trending upward, etc., but without max dollars, Boston will be competing for the veteran minimum type players and in that market winning makes the most difference and there Boston likely comes up short at the present moment.
So this is all pretty negative stuff. Why do you the Celtics were able to sign one of the top 2-3 free agents the last 2 summers? Also, why is being alive when it happened relevant to approaching history. Do you think the NBA players don't care about Martin Luther King Jr. cause they weren't alive at the same time? Many many players (including your favorite, Lebron) regularly speak about being students of the game and studying NBA history. While maybe they weren't alive, they all know who Larry Bird is and appreciate the Celtics history. Here is one of literally thousands examples of this:
"James has a deep appreciation for the Celtics' history and mystique. He says that while playing in Boston he has looked toward the rafters to admire the retired jerseys and 17 championship banners."
http://www.cleveland19.com/story/35442780/lebron-james-wears-leprechaun-t-shirt-before-celtics-game
Why so negative about the Celtics like this? I really don't get it...
That is what you took out of my comments. Come on.
The Celtics signed Horford because they offered him a max contract and Hayward because of Stevens and they offered him a max contract. Having max contract space helps a great deal. If Hayward had equal money offers from Boston, Golden State, San Antonio, Cleveland, Toronto, and Houston, the only reason he would have chosen Boston would have been his connection to Stevens. That is Boston's new reality. No longer does Boston have the dollar advantage on the other top teams.
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I never understood the whole weather thing. Is it really that big a deal? First off, nearly half the season you spend in the road in various climates. When you’re home, you drive everywhere, so what does it really matter (not like you’re walking/taking public in extreme conditions)? The offseason can run anywhere from 3-5 months depending on a playoff run, plenty of time to get your sun fix.
As for the city itself, I’m not a Bostonian but I’m tired of the racist narrative. The Celtics were the first team to draft an African-American AND the first to make one a head coach. This isn’t 40+ years ago. It’s a great city for any race or culture. Not every city is NYC, but you can find everything you need in the Boston area.
The reality is all you need to do is have them stand under all those banners. Show them clips like Celtics fans chanting “Let’s Go Celtics” for about 3 minutes straight as we are getting closed out. Show them how we welcome back our beloved stars. Have them sit down with DA, Wyc, and Brad and see they are all amongst the best in the league in their respective roles.
There is no franchise that compares to us. Not the Lakers. Not the Spurs. Not the Bulls or Warriors or any other flavor of a decade. We are the Boston Celtics. Putting on that white and green jersey is a basketball history lesson.
weather absolutely makes a difference. Even if you just drive everywhere, why would you want to drive in a snow/ice storm when you can drive in perfect conditions. But not all of these guys drive everywhere. Lebron pretty famously rode a bicycle to games in Miami as a way to warm up. If you are staying in a downtown condo, why would you want to drive 2 minutes to the arena when you can walk there (with security of course). Aside from the players themselves, many of these players have families with kids who may not drive everywhere all the time as well.
It is nice to think all those great things about the Celtics, but the Boston Celtics have won exactly 1 title in the last 31 seasons (this year will make 32 if no title). There are becoming increasingly fewer players that were even alive during the great 80's teams and the ones that were probably don't remember Larry Bird. Heck, the younger generation never even saw Jordan win the titles with the Bulls (and remember it). History is nice, but you can't just trot out history like it matters to the current players, it doesn't. Now thankfully Boston has a great young coach, is trending upward, etc., but without max dollars, Boston will be competing for the veteran minimum type players and in that market winning makes the most difference and there Boston likely comes up short at the present moment.
So this is all pretty negative stuff. Why do you the Celtics were able to sign one of the top 2-3 free agents the last 2 summers? Also, why is being alive when it happened relevant to approaching history. Do you think the NBA players don't care about Martin Luther King Jr. cause they weren't alive at the same time? Many many players (including your favorite, Lebron) regularly speak about being students of the game and studying NBA history. While maybe they weren't alive, they all know who Larry Bird is and appreciate the Celtics history. Here is one of literally thousands examples of this:
"James has a deep appreciation for the Celtics' history and mystique. He says that while playing in Boston he has looked toward the rafters to admire the retired jerseys and 17 championship banners."
http://www.cleveland19.com/story/35442780/lebron-james-wears-leprechaun-t-shirt-before-celtics-game
Why so negative about the Celtics like this? I really don't get it...
That is what you took out of my comments. Come on.
The Celtics signed Horford because they offered him a max contract and Hayward because of Stevens and they offered him a max contract. Having max contract space helps a great deal. If Hayward had equal money offers from Boston, Golden State, San Antonio, Cleveland, Toronto, and Houston, the only reason he would have chosen Boston would have been his connection to Stevens. That is Boston's new reality. No longer does Boston have the dollar advantage on the other top teams.
What part of your comments do you feel like I am not asking a fair question about? You said "History is nice, but you can't just trot out history like it matters to the current players, it doesn't." Then you commented further that they don't care because they weren't alive when Larry was playing. I point out that whether they were alive is fairly irrelevant, as many of them, including one of your favorite players, has talked about how they are aware of NBA history and they admire the Celtics History.
So is your original comment not something you really believe? Or are you standing by it? My take is that it is not true at all because I have heard many current players say in interviews how aware they are of the celtics history and mystique and how it impresses them.
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I'd think income tax is also a strong factor.
On Bill Simmons' most recent podcast, he asked Daryl Morey what is most important. His answer: The first, second, and third most important factors are the players that a free agent would be playing with. Everything else is secondary.
I will trust that Morey knows more than me on this subject. I also agree with him. The most talented players want to win championships. They can vacation anywhere they want, and the marginal tax difference over a couple years pales in comparison to winning or losing.
I'm not talking about the secondary players, but the top 25 or so. They want to win.
Fortunately, Boston is set up to win with a little bit more roster improvement.
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I'd think income tax is also a strong factor.
On Bill Simmons' most recent podcast, he asked Daryl Morey what is most important. His answer: The first, second, and third most important factors are the players that a free agent would be playing with. Everything else is secondary.
I will trust that Morey knows more than me on this subject. I also agree with him. The most talented players want to win championships. They can vacation anywhere they want, and the marginal tax difference over a couple years pales in comparison to winning or losing.
I'm not talking about the secondary players, but the top 25 or so. They want to win.
Fortunately, Boston is set up to win with a little bit more roster improvement.
of course winning matters, but when comparing contending teams, the other factors come into play. Personal relationships are obviously a factor, as is money, weather, taxes, cost of living, comfort of living, etc.