End of Age restriction

[Chris]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

[JSD]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

In my opinion, the market and philosophy of the GM should dictate what kind of a contract that kid gets. If a team makes a bad investment, that's on them.

[Chris]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

In my opinion, the market and philosophy of the GM should dictate what kind of a contract that kid gets.

Agree to disagree.  I personally think when you don't have regulations on a market like that, it becomes a slippery slope, and suddenly teams need to sign kids younger and younger in order to get anyone with any sort of talent.  And I think that would ultimately kill the economics of the league, because they will have way too much money and roster spaces in young projects that are nowhere near producing at the NBA level.

Now, I absolutely think these kids have the right to make money playing basketball, I just think it is bad business for the NBA to be the place, based on the way the current CBA is constructed, and particularly that they don't have a true minor league. 

With certain tweaks to the system, it could certainly work, but based on the system now, I just don't think it works.

[Eja117]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

In my opinion, the market and philosophy of the GM should dictate what kind of a contract that kid gets.

Agree to disagree.  I personally think when you don't have regulations on a market like that, it becomes a slippery slope, and suddenly teams need to sign kids younger and younger in order to get anyone with any sort of talent.  And I think that would ultimately kill the economics of the league, because they will have way too much money and roster spaces in young projects that are nowhere near producing at the NBA level.

Now, I absolutely think these kids have the right to make money playing basketball, I just think it is bad business for the NBA to be the place, based on the way the current CBA is constructed, and particularly that they don't have a true minor league. 

With certain tweaks to the system, it could certainly work, but based on the system now, I just don't think it works.

You're ignoring the role of market leaders. 

[Fafnir]

Are we okay with franchises failing, going bankrupt, and moving? Or some sort of relegation system? Without mechanisms to destroy franchises for awful decision making I'm not a fan of having no regulation when it comes to salaries and player movement.

[StartOrien]

I'd like to see the age restriction lifted if anything.

I think its extremely difficult for teams to be able to project the talent of High School kids, and it puts lottery teams in tough situations: Potential vs. Proven. Forcing them into at least one year of collegiante basketball at least makes the proccess somewhat easier

[Chris]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

In my opinion, the market and philosophy of the GM should dictate what kind of a contract that kid gets.

Agree to disagree.  I personally think when you don't have regulations on a market like that, it becomes a slippery slope, and suddenly teams need to sign kids younger and younger in order to get anyone with any sort of talent.  And I think that would ultimately kill the economics of the league, because they will have way too much money and roster spaces in young projects that are nowhere near producing at the NBA level.

Now, I absolutely think these kids have the right to make money playing basketball, I just think it is bad business for the NBA to be the place, based on the way the current CBA is constructed, and particularly that they don't have a true minor league. 

With certain tweaks to the system, it could certainly work, but based on the system now, I just don't think it works.

You're ignoring the role of market leaders. 

That's probably because I have no clue what your talking about.  Please elaborate.

[Eja117]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

In my opinion, the market and philosophy of the GM should dictate what kind of a contract that kid gets.

Agree to disagree.  I personally think when you don't have regulations on a market like that, it becomes a slippery slope, and suddenly teams need to sign kids younger and younger in order to get anyone with any sort of talent.  And I think that would ultimately kill the economics of the league, because they will have way too much money and roster spaces in young projects that are nowhere near producing at the NBA level.

Now, I absolutely think these kids have the right to make money playing basketball, I just think it is bad business for the NBA to be the place, based on the way the current CBA is constructed, and particularly that they don't have a true minor league. 

With certain tweaks to the system, it could certainly work, but based on the system now, I just don't think it works.

You're ignoring the role of market leaders. 

That's probably because I have no clue what your talking about.  Please elaborate.

Essentially a good organization steps up and publicly takes a stand.  There's more than one way to do it.  For example, I guarantee if Mac comes out with a great computer tomorrow for $700 you'd see instant responses from its competitors, because a standard gets set.
Otherwise everything would always just degenerate to the lowest common denominator.

I don't believe these doom and gloom scenarios of the league ruining itself with willing employees being matched up with willing employers.

[Chris]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

In my opinion, the market and philosophy of the GM should dictate what kind of a contract that kid gets.

Agree to disagree.  I personally think when you don't have regulations on a market like that, it becomes a slippery slope, and suddenly teams need to sign kids younger and younger in order to get anyone with any sort of talent.  And I think that would ultimately kill the economics of the league, because they will have way too much money and roster spaces in young projects that are nowhere near producing at the NBA level.

Now, I absolutely think these kids have the right to make money playing basketball, I just think it is bad business for the NBA to be the place, based on the way the current CBA is constructed, and particularly that they don't have a true minor league. 

With certain tweaks to the system, it could certainly work, but based on the system now, I just don't think it works.

You're ignoring the role of market leaders. 

That's probably because I have no clue what your talking about.  Please elaborate.

Essentially a good organization steps up and publicly takes a stand.  There's more than one way to do it.  For example, I guarantee if Mac comes out with a great computer tomorrow for $700 you'd see instant responses from its competitors, because a standard gets set.
Otherwise everything would always just degenerate to the lowest common denominator.

I don't believe these doom and gloom scenarios of the league ruining itself with willing employees being matched up with willing employers.

Well, I am not talking about the league ruining itself.  I am talking about them losing money, and then being forced to pass those losses on to the consumer, or more likely just correcting it in the next CBA (just like they did by putting in the age limit in the first place after enough teams got burned by highschool kids and young Euros).

Of course the other thing that could happen would be a major backlash against highschool kids, and suddenly these kids would no longer be drafted because they would be seen as too much of a risk, and a lot of them would be left inneligible for college, but without a job in the NBA either.

They put the age limit in for a reason.  The influx of highschool kids (which was absolutely a slippery slope), was getting worse and worse.  It was hurting teams financially, because there was too much pressure to draft them, and they were expending way too much money to try to develop them without enough payback.

[Eja117]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

In my opinion, the market and philosophy of the GM should dictate what kind of a contract that kid gets.

Agree to disagree.  I personally think when you don't have regulations on a market like that, it becomes a slippery slope, and suddenly teams need to sign kids younger and younger in order to get anyone with any sort of talent.  And I think that would ultimately kill the economics of the league, because they will have way too much money and roster spaces in young projects that are nowhere near producing at the NBA level.

Now, I absolutely think these kids have the right to make money playing basketball, I just think it is bad business for the NBA to be the place, based on the way the current CBA is constructed, and particularly that they don't have a true minor league. 

With certain tweaks to the system, it could certainly work, but based on the system now, I just don't think it works.

You're ignoring the role of market leaders. 

That's probably because I have no clue what your talking about.  Please elaborate.

Essentially a good organization steps up and publicly takes a stand.  There's more than one way to do it.  For example, I guarantee if Mac comes out with a great computer tomorrow for $700 you'd see instant responses from its competitors, because a standard gets set.
Otherwise everything would always just degenerate to the lowest common denominator.

I don't believe these doom and gloom scenarios of the league ruining itself with willing employees being matched up with willing employers.

Well, I am not talking about the league ruining itself.  I am talking about them losing money, and then being forced to pass those losses on to the consumer, or more likely just correcting it in the next CBA (just like they did by putting in the age limit in the first place after enough teams got burned by highschool kids and young Euros).

Of course the other thing that could happen would be a major backlash against highschool kids, and suddenly these kids would no longer be drafted because they would be seen as too much of a risk, and a lot of them would be left inneligible for college, but without a job in the NBA either.

They put the age limit in for a reason.  The influx of highschool kids (which was absolutely a slippery slope), was getting worse and worse.  It was hurting teams financially, because there was too much pressure to draft them, and they were expending way too much money to try to develop them without enough payback.

I disagree. There's no guarantee whatsoever that the team dumb enough to draft Ndudi Ebi and get caught breaking rules would have somehow made great decisions that would have made them successful because of an age limit. 

[Chris]

I'm against any age restriction. You're good enough and dunking on everyone at 14? Lace em up.

Heres the thing though, would you like to be the one paying Millions of dollars to the 14 year old, and hoping it ends up as a good investment?  These rules allow the league to protect themselves from having to make that decision, and allow them to limit their risk.

In my opinion, the market and philosophy of the GM should dictate what kind of a contract that kid gets.

Agree to disagree.  I personally think when you don't have regulations on a market like that, it becomes a slippery slope, and suddenly teams need to sign kids younger and younger in order to get anyone with any sort of talent.  And I think that would ultimately kill the economics of the league, because they will have way too much money and roster spaces in young projects that are nowhere near producing at the NBA level.

Now, I absolutely think these kids have the right to make money playing basketball, I just think it is bad business for the NBA to be the place, based on the way the current CBA is constructed, and particularly that they don't have a true minor league. 

With certain tweaks to the system, it could certainly work, but based on the system now, I just don't think it works.

You're ignoring the role of market leaders. 

That's probably because I have no clue what your talking about.  Please elaborate.

Essentially a good organization steps up and publicly takes a stand.  There's more than one way to do it.  For example, I guarantee if Mac comes out with a great computer tomorrow for $700 you'd see instant responses from its competitors, because a standard gets set.
Otherwise everything would always just degenerate to the lowest common denominator.

I don't believe these doom and gloom scenarios of the league ruining itself with willing employees being matched up with willing employers.

Well, I am not talking about the league ruining itself.  I am talking about them losing money, and then being forced to pass those losses on to the consumer, or more likely just correcting it in the next CBA (just like they did by putting in the age limit in the first place after enough teams got burned by highschool kids and young Euros).

Of course the other thing that could happen would be a major backlash against highschool kids, and suddenly these kids would no longer be drafted because they would be seen as too much of a risk, and a lot of them would be left inneligible for college, but without a job in the NBA either.

They put the age limit in for a reason.  The influx of highschool kids (which was absolutely a slippery slope), was getting worse and worse.  It was hurting teams financially, because there was too much pressure to draft them, and they were expending way too much money to try to develop them without enough payback.

I disagree. There's no guarantee whatsoever that the team dumb enough to draft Ndudi Ebi and get caught breaking rules would have somehow made great decisions that would have made them successful because of an age limit. 

That's a different thing.  Its not about guaranteeing they make good decisions.  However, if they can make a rule that eliminates the chances of a bad decision that many teams have made, with very minimal negative side effects, then it is good for the business.

What players came straight from highschool, and made a significant contribution their rookie year, relative to their draft position?

Lebron
Dwight Howard

KG and Kobe were pretty mediocre as rookies. 

Who am I missing?

Basically, for most of these players, if the teams lost their production their rookie years, it would not have been a loss at all.  So, it would have been highly beneficial to get that extra year of development on someone elses dime.

[Celtics18]

I don't like the blatant flim flam operation in effect between the NCAA and the NBA.  Remember that the 19 year old age limit was sold to the fans as a way to protect the young ball players from themselves.  We all know that's not the real reason, but, rather, that it's to protect owners from themselves.

Throw in the fact that you assure that the top NCAA programs  continue to get some really good talent to come work for free for their organizations for at least a year, and you've got a win-win for the greedy.

Stop the charade.  Expand the D-League so you can have legitimate training and development outfits for young, talented basketball players where they can be paid while they are trying to crack the big leagues.

Many of the players drafted straight out of High School have turned out to be among the best players of their generation.  The list of straight from High School to the pros players who have had long, successful careers is extensive.

Please stop babying NBA owners so much. 

[Jon]

I personally don't like the age restriction.  If the owners don't want to draft 18-year-olds, they should stop doing so.  They shouldn't need a rule to tell them this. 

Furthermore, I think the NBA needs a legit minor league like the NHL and MLB.  College sports has turned into such a sham anyway.  Between the under-the-table money and the joke classes most of these players take, the whole notion of a college experience is absurd and wishful thinking anyway. 

Finally, I don't think the players really care about this (they're all already in the league).  I think they just brought it back on the table to have another bargaining chip with the league.  I think eventually they'll give up on it, but if they play their cards right, they'll get something back from the owners in return. 

[EJPLAYA]

It's easy to say the owners should stop drafting them if they don't think they should be in the league, but harder to do when all it takes is one owner to take those players. Just like paying those huge contracts. I guarantee you that they'd all rather be paying 50% or less of what they are paying to them but the exception forces them all to.

Remember one thing. It's easy to hate the "rich owners" but if it weren't for them we'd all be watching something else on tv and the players would all be a whole lot poorer. It is their league and what they want should prevail. If the NBA players don't like it then they can go play overseas. How did that work for Josh Childress and numerous others?!

[TradeProposalDude]

An argument (by no means am I stating a "fact" - I am simply rehashing an argument made by the age limit opponents) that has been made against the age limit since its initial inception is that its purpose was to help shed a perception David Stern (and/or the NBA) has about NBA players being thugs. The bottom line - pardon the pun - is to help save the NBA financially by protecting the interests of white America - its largest fan base.

In addition, there were a lot of busts that made the leap from HS to the NBA. They made millions of dollars but hardly produced during their time in the association.

Essentially. The NBA thinks that enacting an age limit will help tame the unruly African American high school kids who need the direction a collegiate environment before stepping into the real world nature of the NBA. Or perhaps, they wanted to avoid white America holding that view of NBA players, leading to the age limit.

I just wonder if this argument will be brought up once again by the opponents of the lobby to get rid of the age limit.