Author Topic: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)  (Read 238659 times)

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Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1530 on: December 11, 2018, 01:34:22 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Holding Davis to sub-50% shooting and keeping him off the FT line is solid work for a rookie playing his first real meaningful minutes.

I mean, the kid looked like an NBA player.  That's good enough for me.  The rest of it -- ball denial, help defense, switches, etc. -- comes with experience and repetition.  I still feel confident that Williams can be Sam Dalembert, which would be a steal for where he was drafted.
Agree with all this but there are posters arguing that when everyone is healthy Williams deserves minutes over Theis, Baynes and Horford. He just isn't good enough to be taking minutes away from those proven vets.

There's a decent chance Baynes or Theis or both are gone next year. Williams can get his chance then.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1531 on: December 11, 2018, 01:46:44 PM »

Offline playdream

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Holding Davis to sub-50% shooting and keeping him off the FT line is solid work for a rookie playing his first real meaningful minutes.

I mean, the kid looked like an NBA player.  That's good enough for me.  The rest of it -- ball denial, help defense, switches, etc. -- comes with experience and repetition.  I still feel confident that Williams can be Sam Dalembert, which would be a steal for where he was drafted.

It's not a solid work it's a fantastic work

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1532 on: December 11, 2018, 02:12:51 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Holding Davis to sub-50% shooting and keeping him off the FT line is solid work for a rookie playing his first real meaningful minutes.

I mean, the kid looked like an NBA player.  That's good enough for me.  The rest of it -- ball denial, help defense, switches, etc. -- comes with experience and repetition.  I still feel confident that Williams can be Sam Dalembert, which would be a steal for where he was drafted.

It's not a solid work it's a fantastic work
my only thing is that the power of the unknown can skew early results. Anthony David has probably never even heard of Robert Williams and likely didn’t know his defensive tendencies or capabilities.  Maybe once the word gets out that Robert bites on everything they will just upfake him into fouling out in a couple minutes.  Who knows. 

Gotta see more of him, but that was a nice stint last nights.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1533 on: December 11, 2018, 02:34:10 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Holding Davis to sub-50% shooting and keeping him off the FT line is solid work for a rookie playing his first real meaningful minutes.

I mean, the kid looked like an NBA player.  That's good enough for me.  The rest of it -- ball denial, help defense, switches, etc. -- comes with experience and repetition.  I still feel confident that Williams can be Sam Dalembert, which would be a steal for where he was drafted.

It's not a solid work it's a fantastic work
my only thing is that the power of the unknown can skew early results. Anthony David has probably never even heard of Robert Williams and likely didn’t know his defensive tendencies or capabilities.  Maybe once the word gets out that Robert bites on everything they will just upfake him into fouling out in a couple minutes.  Who knows. 

Gotta see more of him, but that was a nice stint last nights.

This was my worry when watching Williams last night.  It'll be interesting to see how Williams plays once he gets a little more comfortable, but it will also be interesting to see how the opponents react once they get a scouting report on him.

I felt like I saw signs of block chasing.  Lowe had a decent piece on Nerlens Noel being the worst in the league at it (#6 if anybody is interested) Not saying this is what Williams will become, but just something to keep an eye on.

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Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1534 on: December 11, 2018, 02:45:27 PM »

Offline liam

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Holding Davis to sub-50% shooting and keeping him off the FT line is solid work for a rookie playing his first real meaningful minutes.

I mean, the kid looked like an NBA player.  That's good enough for me.  The rest of it -- ball denial, help defense, switches, etc. -- comes with experience and repetition.  I still feel confident that Williams can be Sam Dalembert, which would be a steal for where he was drafted.
Agree with all this but there are posters arguing that when everyone is healthy Williams deserves minutes over Theis, Baynes and Horford. He just isn't good enough to be taking minutes away from those proven vets.

There's a decent chance Baynes or Theis or both are gone next year. Williams can get his chance then.

I think he deserves situational minutes against some of the longer centers in the NBA. I don't think he'll be playing in front of those guys but he can play. We could've used a guy like Williams last year when Theis went down...
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 02:54:09 PM by liam »

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1535 on: December 11, 2018, 02:54:36 PM »

Offline CF033

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Williams IMO has a higher ceiling than either Baynes or Theis. He's an athletic freak and obviously has good instincts on the defensive end. That's not to say he should get minutes over them this year but I def want to see him develop more.

Given the circumstances I think he did an amazing job against arguably the best center in the NBA.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1536 on: December 11, 2018, 03:00:50 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Did we showcase robert Williams to the pelicans? Lol

https://youtu.be/xs7_8wUYSm8

Forget his blocking ability--- he has a knack for blocking the shot then tipping it to a teammate or retrieving the ball. Its a really good instinct he has

Re: More Robert Williams please....
« Reply #1537 on: December 11, 2018, 03:01:53 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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according to Chris Forsberg's twitter...

How did Robert Williams fare, defensively, vs. Anthony Davis?

The NBA's tracking data had Williams defending Davis on a team-high 32 possessions (tied with Daniel Theis) and allowing 15 points on 7-of-17 shooting with 2 blocks (Theis allowed Davis 21 points on 8-of-13 FG)

Sorry, you can't quote facts here.  Board consensus is already out; Williams was abysmal defending AD last night.

Per 100 possessions, Davis average 34 ppg.  Pels average 108 possessions per game.  Not sure it's possible to overlay those stats exactly, but they suggest both Williams and Theis may well have allowed Davis more ppg than his average.  That Theis was worse doesn't suggest Williams was good - those stats are probably unfavorable.  I like Williams and he shows promise, but you're criticizing others for a bias in the face of yours.

I don't get what you are trying to say, here.

Remember that CBS left Williams and Theis on an island against AD. The gameplan was to allow him to go one-on-one against those guys, as long as the rest of the team didn't get going. In possessions against AD, Williams 15 points on 7-17 shooting. Williams didn't break against AD one-on-one, and this allowed the rest of the Cs to stay home on their guys, which ultimately limited a team that normally averages 117 ppg to 100 points.

Williams could have done better, for sure. He lacked fundamentals and gave up some easy buckets to AD, but he played him pretty well for the most part.

We're probably saying the same thing. I know it just annoys some posters on here when you take an overly negative take when you could be more much more positive about it.

We do share the same perspective, I was just replying to the above suggesting that the stats provided a perfect picture and disagreement was inaccurately biased.  Qualitative stuff actually seems like a better indicator and I am optimistic about big Boo Butt. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 03:07:49 PM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1538 on: December 11, 2018, 03:08:03 PM »

Offline playdream

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Holding Davis to sub-50% shooting and keeping him off the FT line is solid work for a rookie playing his first real meaningful minutes.

I mean, the kid looked like an NBA player.  That's good enough for me.  The rest of it -- ball denial, help defense, switches, etc. -- comes with experience and repetition.  I still feel confident that Williams can be Sam Dalembert, which would be a steal for where he was drafted.

It's not a solid work it's a fantastic work
my only thing is that the power of the unknown can skew early results. Anthony David has probably never even heard of Robert Williams and likely didn’t know his defensive tendencies or capabilities.  Maybe once the word gets out that Robert bites on everything they will just upfake him into fouling out in a couple minutes.  Who knows. 

Gotta see more of him, but that was a nice stint last nights.
Comments like this make me wonder if people really watch the game or just imagine things up?
Williams is a smart defender that rarely bite on pump fakes

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1072336424870035456
AD on Robert Williams blocks: "Yeah, I was surprised. I thought he was going to go for the pump fake, and he didn’t. I just tried to shoot over. He’s good. He’s talented. A good defensive player."

Inexperienced and lack of fundamental he is, but stupid he is not
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 03:14:24 PM by playdream »

Re: More Robert Williams please....
« Reply #1539 on: December 11, 2018, 03:31:59 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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according to Chris Forsberg's twitter...

How did Robert Williams fare, defensively, vs. Anthony Davis?

The NBA's tracking data had Williams defending Davis on a team-high 32 possessions (tied with Daniel Theis) and allowing 15 points on 7-of-17 shooting with 2 blocks (Theis allowed Davis 21 points on 8-of-13 FG)

So is it correct to interpret this as Davis scoring 15 pts in 32 possessions against Williams so this would be 46.9 pts per 100 possessions?  I know by this same math Theis would have given up over 65 pts/100 but I am just trying to make sure I am interpreting these data correctly.

I am not trying to knock Williams (or Theis).  It was clear that NOP was working the Davis match up.  He took 34 shots.  41 pts on 34 shots is not crazy, it is a lot of shots.

I think Williams is coming along nicely.

I don't think that is what he means. Williams guarded AD on 32 possessions. In those 32 possessions, AD took 17 shots, converting on only 7 of them (this doesn't include free throws). On the remaining possessions, other Pelicans' players took shots with varying levels of success. This would add to the total amount of pts/100 since AD isn't the only player taking and making shots...even if it sometimes feels like it.

What the data does show is the Williams did a considerably better job defending AD 1 on 1 than Theis. Stevens probably also noticed this which is why Williams was re-inserted quickly (I think near the end of the 3rd) when Theis was letting AD have a field day on him on several consecutive possessions.

What the data does not really show is team defense, where I think Theis currently has a discernible edge on Williams...but that's because one is a young rookie and the other a 26 yo former DPOY in his former league.

The tl;dr of it all - Williams was surprisingly good and we should be happy he is developing at a nice pace.

I am not sure I follow this.  The original stats said that Davis scored 15 pts in 32 minutes that Williams covered him.  What you are getting at is how many points the team scored in those 32 minutes.  Two completely different things.

My extrapolation would be based on the assumption that Davis got the same exact usage rate and scored at the same exact efficiency over 100 possessions as he did in the 32 possessions that are referenced.  I think the numbers per 100 possessions look high because NOP was forcing the ball to him thinking they had a favorable match up and so Davis had an unusually high usage rate.

Of course it is not realistic that Davis would be on the court for 100 possessions, that is just a way to normalize the data, like per 36 minutes.  This type of normalization does create some distortion of course.

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1540 on: December 11, 2018, 04:13:05 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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To everyone bashing Williams' defense, allowing Davis 14 points on 7-17 shooting is really good. 

Also, everyone pointing to the 41 points... Davis put up 46 on us in the Garden last year when Al was guarding him.  So I guess RW is a terrible defender, but hey, by your logic at least he's better than Al Horford. 
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Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1541 on: December 11, 2018, 04:24:52 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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The only thing I saw that he really needs to work on was that he helped too much at times. Other than that he was altering shots left and right. He just needs more experience on when to help. Needs playing time but you can't force it!
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Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1542 on: December 11, 2018, 04:40:00 PM »

Offline footey

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Holding Davis to sub-50% shooting and keeping him off the FT line is solid work for a rookie playing his first real meaningful minutes.

I mean, the kid looked like an NBA player.  That's good enough for me.  The rest of it -- ball denial, help defense, switches, etc. -- comes with experience and repetition.  I still feel confident that Williams can be Sam Dalembert, which would be a steal for where he was drafted.

Dalembert does not come to mind. Williams considerably more athletic. Dalembert better shooting touch.

Re: More Robert Williams please....
« Reply #1543 on: December 11, 2018, 04:48:31 PM »

Offline jambr380

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according to Chris Forsberg's twitter...

How did Robert Williams fare, defensively, vs. Anthony Davis?

The NBA's tracking data had Williams defending Davis on a team-high 32 possessions (tied with Daniel Theis) and allowing 15 points on 7-of-17 shooting with 2 blocks (Theis allowed Davis 21 points on 8-of-13 FG)

So is it correct to interpret this as Davis scoring 15 pts in 32 possessions against Williams so this would be 46.9 pts per 100 possessions?  I know by this same math Theis would have given up over 65 pts/100 but I am just trying to make sure I am interpreting these data correctly.

I am not trying to knock Williams (or Theis).  It was clear that NOP was working the Davis match up.  He took 34 shots.  41 pts on 34 shots is not crazy, it is a lot of shots.

I think Williams is coming along nicely.

I don't think that is what he means. Williams guarded AD on 32 possessions. In those 32 possessions, AD took 17 shots, converting on only 7 of them (this doesn't include free throws). On the remaining possessions, other Pelicans' players took shots with varying levels of success. This would add to the total amount of pts/100 since AD isn't the only player taking and making shots...even if it sometimes feels like it.

What the data does show is the Williams did a considerably better job defending AD 1 on 1 than Theis. Stevens probably also noticed this which is why Williams was re-inserted quickly (I think near the end of the 3rd) when Theis was letting AD have a field day on him on several consecutive possessions.

What the data does not really show is team defense, where I think Theis currently has a discernible edge on Williams...but that's because one is a young rookie and the other a 26 yo former DPOY in his former league.

The tl;dr of it all - Williams was surprisingly good and we should be happy he is developing at a nice pace.

I am not sure I follow this.  The original stats said that Davis scored 15 pts in 32 minutes that Williams covered him.  What you are getting at is how many points the team scored in those 32 minutes.  Two completely different things.

My extrapolation would be based on the assumption that Davis got the same exact usage rate and scored at the same exact efficiency over 100 possessions as he did in the 32 possessions that are referenced.  I think the numbers per 100 possessions look high because NOP was forcing the ball to him thinking they had a favorable match up and so Davis had an unusually high usage rate.

Of course it is not realistic that Davis would be on the court for 100 possessions, that is just a way to normalize the data, like per 36 minutes.  This type of normalization does create some distortion of course.

I must have misunderstood your point. I was referring to NOP having a total of 32 possessions with Williams guarding AD. On those 32 possessions, AD only scored 15 points (I say only because his usage rate was so high - 17 shots on 32 possessions is very high usage). It is actually possible for AD to be on the court for 100 NOP possessions in a game - he just wouldn't be taking shots on all of them. That is why I referenced other players taking and making shots above.

I think you are referencing a different metric where a player's points are compared to the team's total possessions (rather than team points/team possessions. In this case, AD's 46.9 pts/100 possessions would, on the surface, look quite good, but when you delve deeper, you see that the efficiency is less than impressive (17 shots to get 15 points).

I apologize if you were referring to something different. I have really only ever seen points/100 possessions referenced in terms of team points, not an individual. You are right - two totally different things.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 05:01:41 PM by jambr380 »

Re: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)
« Reply #1544 on: December 11, 2018, 06:38:51 PM »

Offline liam

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The only thing I saw that he really needs to work on was that he helped too much at times. Other than that he was altering shots left and right. He just needs more experience on when to help. Needs playing time but you can't force it!

He does need work on when to help and when to stay home but teammates also need to cover when he helps off his man to stop penetration. Williams is a young big man with a ton of raw talent but he also needs to put in a ton of work if he wants to be a good NBA player. He's very exciting to watch already.