A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)

[nickagneta]

I don't think killing the Night King is going to change the climate and weather in Martin's world. I think the fluctuating seasons, some lasting years, is still going to happen. I think all killing the Night King did was remove an enemy that thrived in winter and stop the possibility of a Long Night happening again. And by Long Night I mean a generational winter where the White Walkers would come forth again.

I think a generational winter could still happen. My theory is Westeros is on a planet with a wobbly orbit around their star which causes the unpredictable climatology. I don't think the Night King controlled the changing of the seasons. I think he just just derived a lot of his power in cold weather.

[Csfan1984]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

[nickagneta]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

[Moranis]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode. 

[RPGenerate]

I honestly feel like just dropping the show altogether. I've had absolutely no interest in Cersei as a character or as a villain ever since we moved passed the books. She being the big villain to end the show feels like the absolute antithesis of everything we've learned about this world prior. Plus I can't think of a major character whose story arc hasn't been butchered in one way or another.

[Csfan1984]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

Exactly. TP for understanding where I coming from.

[Csfan1984]

I honestly feel like just dropping the show altogether. I've had absolutely no interest in Cersei as a character or as a villain ever since we moved passed the books. She being the big villain to end the show feels like the absolute antithesis of everything we've learned about this world prior. Plus I can't think of a major character whose story arc hasn't been butchered in one way or another.

Feel kind of worried to watch the rest of the season after seeing the last episode. It's as bad as the Sansa and Arya stuff from last season. Just bad writing/story makes me cringe thinking what's to come.

[fairweatherfan]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

The point of the library stuff was to change pace from the huge battle to focus tension around a single major character and to prep the viewer for her sneak attack on the Night King. Cramming in more mythology or references only a book-reader would know about only makes the overall story denser with no real added narrative value. They've made some dumb decisions on the show but trimming down the lore and storylines in favor of more character beats  hasn't been one of them.

[Csfan1984]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

The point of the library stuff was to change pace from the huge battle to focus tension around a single major character and to prep the viewer for her sneak attack on the Night King. Cramming in more mythology or references only a book-reader would know about only makes the overall story denser with no real added narrative value. They've made some dumb decisions on the show but trimming down the lore and storylines in favor of more character beats  hasn't been one of them.

 I disagree with the choice. Arya had seasons of prepping she didn't need another scene, the library did nothing. Also they had change of pace that had tension and drama that was much better already with Theon and Bran left in the Gods wood. That was good because we saw the redemption of Theon and finish to his story arch.

Also it's not adding lore it's building off what the show already introduced in Reeds being so involved already with the fight and then not one being there in the end and then Stanis lightbringer/dawn there at Jon's birth. It's bring that to a close.

[fairweatherfan]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

The point of the library stuff was to change pace from the huge battle to focus tension around a single major character and to prep the viewer for her sneak attack on the Night King. Cramming in more mythology or references only a book-reader would know about only makes the overall story denser with no real added narrative value. They've made some dumb decisions on the show but trimming down the lore and storylines in favor of more character beats  hasn't been one of them.

 I disagree with the choice. Arya had seasons of prepping she didn't need another scene, the library did nothing. Also they had change of pace that had tension and drama that was much better already with Theon and Bran left in the Gods wood. That was good because we saw the redemption of Theon and finish to his story arch.

Also it's not adding lore it's building off what the show already introduced in Reeds being so involved already with the fight and then not one being there in the end and then Stanis lightbringer/dawn there at Jon's birth. It's bring that to a close.

No worries on disagreement, I enjoyed it the first time through even while mostly disappointed with the overall episode, but to each their own on liking or not. Alfie Allen did an excellent job with Theon's end just as he did for about all of the series, for sure.

But the Reeds have barely been in the show - Jojen's dead, Meera helped Bran travel then had no more purpose, Howland only in flashback. Barely mentioned outside of that. Dawn I believe is never even named in the flashback where Dayne has 2 swords, while Lightbringer comes up exactly once and is never seen again, and the whole point of it in the books is that it's a fraud. They'd have had to shoehorn them in there really late in the game and we don't even know from the books if any of the sword stuff is going to actually matter. Hell, might as well just say the dagger was the true Lightbringer.

[tazzmaniac]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

The point of the library stuff was to change pace from the huge battle to focus tension around a single major character and to prep the viewer for her sneak attack on the Night King. Cramming in more mythology or references only a book-reader would know about only makes the overall story denser with no real added narrative value. They've made some dumb decisions on the show but trimming down the lore and storylines in favor of more character beats  hasn't been one of them.

 I disagree with the choice. Arya had seasons of prepping she didn't need another scene, the library did nothing. Also they had change of pace that had tension and drama that was much better already with Theon and Bran left in the Gods wood. That was good because we saw the redemption of Theon and finish to his story arch.

Also it's not adding lore it's building off what the show already introduced in Reeds being so involved already with the fight and then not one being there in the end and then Stanis lightbringer/dawn there at Jon's birth. It's bring that to a close.

No worries on disagreement, I enjoyed it the first time through even while mostly disappointed with the overall episode, but to each their own on liking or not. Alfie Allen did an excellent job with Theon's end just as he did for about all of the series, for sure.

But the Reeds have barely been in the show - Jojen's dead, Meera helped Bran travel then had no more purpose, Howland only in flashback. Barely mentioned outside of that. Dawn I believe is never even named in the flashback where Dayne has 2 swords, while Lightbringer comes up exactly once and is never seen again, and the whole point of it in the books is that it's a fraud. They'd have had to shoehorn them in there really late in the game and we don't even know from the books if any of the sword stuff is going to actually matter. Hell, might as well just say the dagger was the true Lightbringer.

I agree with you.  The Arya library scene was a nice change of pace and it led to Melisandre kick starting Arya to kill the Night King.  As for the Reeds, Howland Reed might have a role to play now since he should be able to confirm Jon's origin. 

[Moranis]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

The point of the library stuff was to change pace from the huge battle to focus tension around a single major character and to prep the viewer for her sneak attack on the Night King. Cramming in more mythology or references only a book-reader would know about only makes the overall story denser with no real added narrative value. They've made some dumb decisions on the show but trimming down the lore and storylines in favor of more character beats  hasn't been one of them.

There were  better ways to do change of pace though.  The Sansa and Tyrion scene for example was nice.  They could have added more in the Gods Wood.  They also could have cut out a few of the battle scenes.  For what they've actually shown in 190 minutes this season easily could have been 120 minutes and they could have then added stuff that filled in gaps, advanced the story better, etc.  It was a huge problem last season as well. 

And let's be clear this is a fantasy series.  The show has gone heavily away from what makes a great fantasy series since they've passed the books and the quality of the show has suffered significantly. 

[nickagneta]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

The point of the library stuff was to change pace from the huge battle to focus tension around a single major character and to prep the viewer for her sneak attack on the Night King. Cramming in more mythology or references only a book-reader would know about only makes the overall story denser with no real added narrative value. They've made some dumb decisions on the show but trimming down the lore and storylines in favor of more character beats  hasn't been one of them.

There were  better ways to do change of pace though.  The Sansa and Tyrion scene for example was nice.  They could have added more in the Gods Wood.  They also could have cut out a few of the battle scenes.  For what they've actually shown in 190 minutes this season easily could have been 120 minutes and they could have then added stuff that filled in gaps, advanced the story better, etc.  It was a huge problem last season as well. 

And let's be clear this is a fantasy series.  The show has gone heavily away from what makes a great fantasy series since they've passed the books and the quality of the show has suffered significantly.

Moranis, if it's so bad, and has been for years, why do you continue to watch it?

I loved The Walking Dead and even got into reading some of the comics stuff because of it. But haven't watched the last few seasons because they went off the rail and it started to suck. If it's so bad, why don't you just do what I did with The Walking Dead and stop watching it?

[tazzmaniac]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

The point of the library stuff was to change pace from the huge battle to focus tension around a single major character and to prep the viewer for her sneak attack on the Night King. Cramming in more mythology or references only a book-reader would know about only makes the overall story denser with no real added narrative value. They've made some dumb decisions on the show but trimming down the lore and storylines in favor of more character beats  hasn't been one of them.

There were  better ways to do change of pace though.  The Sansa and Tyrion scene for example was nice.  They could have added more in the Gods Wood.  They also could have cut out a few of the battle scenes.  For what they've actually shown in 190 minutes this season easily could have been 120 minutes and they could have then added stuff that filled in gaps, advanced the story better, etc.  It was a huge problem last season as well. 

And let's be clear this is a fantasy series.  The show has gone heavily away from what makes a great fantasy series since they've passed the books and the quality of the show has suffered significantly.

What's made the show great is the characters.  The fantasy element is relatively small.  The dragons being the most important.  The Night King and White Walkers weren't even known to most of the characters until season 7. 

[fairweatherfan]

Any fans disappointed in no Reeds or Dawn sword in the long night battle? Felt there was so much missing that should have been there. Even after rewatching I still think they missed a lot of opportunities. Like if they cut out the Arya library stuff they could have introduced those elements before the battle.

It's not like they were held to a time limit on the length of the episode as that went 80 minutes. If they wanted to introduce any other stuff to the story they could have easily done so without needing to cut that Arya scene.

They didn't add the stuff you would like to have seen because they didn't think it added anything to the story.

I'm pretty sure his point was more that they didn't need the Arya in the library scene as it added almost nothing to the story.  IMO, that has been a pretty consistent problem with the show once they advanced past the books.  There is a lot of useless stuff, but yet they don't have stuff that should be in there or that would help fill in tremendous gaps and holes.  The show really has gone down hill and they absolutely took a crap on the first 6 seasons in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

The point of the library stuff was to change pace from the huge battle to focus tension around a single major character and to prep the viewer for her sneak attack on the Night King. Cramming in more mythology or references only a book-reader would know about only makes the overall story denser with no real added narrative value. They've made some dumb decisions on the show but trimming down the lore and storylines in favor of more character beats  hasn't been one of them.

There were  better ways to do change of pace though.  The Sansa and Tyrion scene for example was nice.  They could have added more in the Gods Wood.  They also could have cut out a few of the battle scenes.  For what they've actually shown in 190 minutes this season easily could have been 120 minutes and they could have then added stuff that filled in gaps, advanced the story better, etc.  It was a huge problem last season as well. 

And let's be clear this is a fantasy series.  The show has gone heavily away from what makes a great fantasy series since they've passed the books and the quality of the show has suffered significantly.

What's made the show great is the characters.  The fantasy element is relatively small.  The dragons being the most important.  The Night King and White Walkers weren't even known to most of the characters until season 7.

Yeah I've dumped on the last couple seasons plenty but the problems ain't about not enough tertiary characters and One True Magic Sword That Will Fix Everything talk. They're much more about plot armor protecting characters from increasingly bad decisions and rushing through too much story. The character beats are a step in the right direction.