Rondo goes through full practice

[nickagneta]

I am surprised so many do not remember the beginning of the 2012-13 season and because of a poor overall team record during that time that they are so quick to place the blame on Rondo, who with KG were about the only players on the Celtics at that time that were playing well.

- Bradley was out during almost the entire time that Rondo was playing and was healthy to start that season.
- Pierce came into camp out of shape and played some of his worst ever as a Celtic during that period. Offensively he had an ORtg of about 102(as compared to a career 107) and a TS% of 52%(as compared to a career 57%)
- Jeff Green was just coming back from his heart surgery, was out of NBA shape and averaged 9 PPG, 3 RPG, with a TS% of about 50% and an ORtg less than 100.
- Sullinger was a rookie and showed an occasional flash of what he could be but was overall not good.
- Jason Terry was just pathetic in both phases of the game and has never recovered.
- Courtney Lee though he shot slightly above average was unaggressive and didn't appear to fit well with the team or get the offensive or defensive rotations. His normally very good defense was extremely poor
- Bass was Bass with all the good and bad that entails though didn't seem to be shooting as much or as well as he did the two years before that.

Meanwhile, Rondo was averaging a career best 13.7 PPG, 11.1 APG, 1.8 SPG, shooting 51.2% on two point shots and appeared to have developed a real mid range game, something that was lacking from his arsenal up until that time. His defense though did appear to have taken a step back though, I will say that.

But to look at the C's 20-23 record and state it was Rondo's fault is just not paying attention to all the other variables that were occurring at the time or the fact that starting in February Sullinger, Green, Lee, and Pierce started playing much better overall basketball individually, probably because they were just rounding into playing shape or getting familiar with the team concepts and system.

And all this doesn't even address the fact that Doc Rivers probably had his worst coaching performance of his Celtic career that year.

Just not getting the whole "The past two years the Celtics have played better without Rondo than with him" phenomenon. Its an aberration that doesn't take into consideration the multitude on contextual variables that need to be addressed before jumping to the conclusions that some are based on that one statistic.

[KGs Knee]

TP, Nick.

All of the points you brought up are pretty spot on, and put a lot of the team's struggles that season into better context. But I'm not surprised most here ignore those points.  Most people apparently are too lazy too actually look a bit deeper into what was happening, and in their haste to find a scape goat, simply look for the "easy" explanation, or common denominator.

The only thing that season in noticed, that I would put any blame onto Rondo, was the weird on-court vibe that seemed to exist between Pierce and Rondo. It seemed like they just were never on the same page as to how to best run the offense.  That partly goes on Pierce too, but obviously people will just automatically give Pierce the benefit of the doubt, being the established HoF'er of the two.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I am surprised so many do not remember the beginning of the 2012-13 season and because of a poor overall team record during that time that they are so quick to place the blame on Rondo, who with KG were about the only players on the Celtics at that time that were playing well.

- Bradley was out during almost the entire time that Rondo was playing and was healthy to start that season.
- Pierce came into camp out of shape and played some of his worst ever as a Celtic during that period. Offensively he had an ORtg of about 102(as compared to a career 107) and a TS% of 52%(as compared to a career 57%)
- Jeff Green was just coming back from his heart surgery, was out of NBA shape and averaged 9 PPG, 3 RPG, with a TS% of about 50% and an ORtg less than 100.
- Sullinger was a rookie and showed an occasional flash of what he could be but was overall not good.
- Jason Terry was just pathetic in both phases of the game and has never recovered.
- Courtney Lee though he shot slightly above average was unaggressive and didn't appear to fit well with the team or get the offensive or defensive rotations. His normally very good defense was extremely poor
- Bass was Bass with all the good and bad that entails though didn't seem to be shooting as much or as well as he did the two years before that.

Meanwhile, Rondo was averaging a career best 13.7 PPG, 11.1 APG, 1.8 SPG, shooting 51.2% on two point shots and appeared to have developed a real mid range game, something that was lacking from his arsenal up until that time. His defense though did appear to have taken a step back though, I will say that.

But to look at the C's 20-23 record and state it was Rondo's fault is just not paying attention to all the other variables that were occurring at the time or the fact that starting in February Sullinger, Green, Lee, and Pierce started playing much better overall basketball individually, probably because they were just rounding into playing shape or getting familiar with the team concepts and system.

And all this doesn't even address the fact that Doc Rivers probably had his worst coaching performance of his Celtic career that year.

Just not getting the whole "The past two years the Celtics have played better without Rondo than with him" phenomenon. Its an aberration that doesn't take into consideration the multitude on contextual variables that need to be addressed before jumping to the conclusions that some are based on that one statistic.

The most important thing worth noting is that FINALLY you agree that Doc Rivers did a poor job. I've been a big Doc Rivers guy, even through the losing seasons, but after the first 2 or so with the Big 3, his coaching seemed not up to the task anymore, and 2012-2013 was the epitome of bad for him.

[BballTim]

For much of the Bird era Parrish "moved the w/l meter" more than Bird did because our backup forwards (like Wedman) were very good but our backup centers were very poor. I don't think that's a very good indication of those players relative impact on the game.

Very good point. KG was/is a great player, but he didn't have any real help at his position. That's one of the main things us posters complained about the last few years. We couldn't afford for him to have an injury or sit on the bench too long because the drop off in talent at his position was extremely noticeable.

So when did Rondo have a great back up?  Wasn't there a significant drop off between Rondo and the back up PG?

  Whoever backed up Rondo shared running the offense with PP and, to a lesser extent, KG. Paul was one of the better ball handling/passing wings in the league. It wasn't really an ideal situation but it was a better situation than our backup rim protector when KG was on the bench.

[2short]

TP, Nick.

All of the points you brought up are pretty spot on, and put a lot of the team's struggles that season into better context. But I'm not surprised most here ignore those points.  Most people apparently are too lazy too actually look a bit deeper into what was happening, and in their haste to find a scape goat, simply look for the "easy" explanation, or common denominator.

The only thing that season in noticed, that I would put any blame onto Rondo, was the weird on-court vibe that seemed to exist between Pierce and Rondo. It seemed like they just were never on the same page as to how to best run the offense.  That partly goes on Pierce too, but obviously people will just automatically give Pierce the benefit of the doubt, being the established HoF'er of the two.

The rondo Paul thing is a very good point to bring up.  I think mainly it was two offensive alpha dogs (trying) to work together.  I'd much rather see the ball in rondos hands with Paul and Ray running off screens or curling to the basket than pp ISO ball.  I wouldn't blame either guy Paul had to do most everything himself for awhile.  Docs first season there was an adjustment between those two pp and doc as well

[IlCapitano]

Boston Celtics        ? @celtics
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Brad Stevens says Rondo will have one more imaging test after prac before deciding on tomorrow. Rondo told Stevens to tell media he's at 83%

[manl_lui]

Boston Celtics        ? @celtics
Follow

Brad Stevens says Rondo will have one more imaging test after prac before deciding on tomorrow. Rondo told Stevens to tell media he's at 83%

where does Rondo get those numbers - 79% and 83%?

[IlCapitano]

He's just messing around...

[Celtics18]

I think Rondo's funny, but he needs a new schtick.  The percentage thing is kind of played out.

C'mon, Rajon, you can come up with some new material.   

[LooseCannon]

I think Rondo's funny, but he needs a new schtick.  The percentage thing is kind of played out.

C'mon, Rajon, you can come up with some new material.

He should add a significant digit or two.  Then he can hand out complicated math problems to give to journalists and let them solve for how many percent.

[IlCapitano]

I think Rondo's funny, but he needs a new schtick.  The percentage thing is kind of played out.

C'mon, Rajon, you can come up with some new material.

https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/527129331001479168

Rondo won't commit to opening night return. Messing around, as usual: "When I wake up from my nap, I'll let you guys know. Around 4:30."

Good enough? 

[LooseCannon]

Boston Celtics        ? @celtics
Follow

Brad Stevens says Rondo will have one more imaging test after prac before deciding on tomorrow. Rondo told Stevens to tell media he's at 83%

where does Rondo get those numbers - 79% and 83%?

83% comes from being 4% better than the last time they asked that question.

[hwangjini_1]

I am surprised so many do not remember the beginning of the 2012-13 season and because of a poor overall team record during that time that they are so quick to place the blame on Rondo, who with KG were about the only players on the Celtics at that time that were playing well.

- Bradley was out during almost the entire time that Rondo was playing and was healthy to start that season.
- Pierce came into camp out of shape and played some of his worst ever as a Celtic during that period. Offensively he had an ORtg of about 102(as compared to a career 107) and a TS% of 52%(as compared to a career 57%)
- Jeff Green was just coming back from his heart surgery, was out of NBA shape and averaged 9 PPG, 3 RPG, with a TS% of about 50% and an ORtg less than 100.
- Sullinger was a rookie and showed an occasional flash of what he could be but was overall not good.
- Jason Terry was just pathetic in both phases of the game and has never recovered.
- Courtney Lee though he shot slightly above average was unaggressive and didn't appear to fit well with the team or get the offensive or defensive rotations. His normally very good defense was extremely poor
- Bass was Bass with all the good and bad that entails though didn't seem to be shooting as much or as well as he did the two years before that.

Meanwhile, Rondo was averaging a career best 13.7 PPG, 11.1 APG, 1.8 SPG, shooting 51.2% on two point shots and appeared to have developed a real mid range game, something that was lacking from his arsenal up until that time. His defense though did appear to have taken a step back though, I will say that.

But to look at the C's 20-23 record and state it was Rondo's fault is just not paying attention to all the other variables that were occurring at the time or the fact that starting in February Sullinger, Green, Lee, and Pierce started playing much better overall basketball individually, probably because they were just rounding into playing shape or getting familiar with the team concepts and system.

And all this doesn't even address the fact that Doc Rivers probably had his worst coaching performance of his Celtic career that year.

Just not getting the whole "The past two years the Celtics have played better without Rondo than with him" phenomenon. Its an aberration that doesn't take into consideration the multitude on contextual variables that need to be addressed before jumping to the conclusions that some are based on that one statistic.

nick, a good post as usual, but on the last point I think the argument you are trying to address is a bit more nuanced, at least the one I have seen. It is not a case of "celtics played better without Rondo" as much as "the proposal by many that Rondo makes the Celtics better in terms of w/l" does not seem supported by the data. and for me, w/l record is one very very important data point in assessing whether a team is better or not. it is not a "rondo's fault" argument, though i can see how it could easily be described as such.

next, you mentioned a number of factors that supposed explained why we cannot hold Rondo responsible for loses, yet that begs the question of whether other factors would hold him equally non-responsible for for the wins. that is, i don't see any obvious balance in your larger argument.

final point on the points you raise to mitigate Rondo's role in the losses and thereby (implicitly) promote his role in the wins, how do we know the points you raise are any more important than the "limited contribution to wins" argument put forth by others? for example, did all these reasons mentioned suddenly cease and end simultaneously with the loss of rondo? none of them continued past the point of rondo's departure?

[Celtics18]

I think Rondo's funny, but he needs a new schtick.  The percentage thing is kind of played out.

C'mon, Rajon, you can come up with some new material.

https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/527129331001479168

Rondo won't commit to opening night return. Messing around, as usual: "When I wake up from my nap, I'll let you guys know. Around 4:30."

Good enough? 

That's better.

[IlCapitano]

https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/527136425108865024

Sounds like the decision's mostly on Rondo. So I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't play.