CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Monkhouse on September 18, 2018, 02:44:56 PM
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It's been an tumultuous season... Somewhere, along the horizon, 76ers fans crowd alongside each other like a pack of murderous crows. Seeking solace, they warm themselves with whispers of, "rookie of the year, ROOKIE OF THE YEAR, ROOKIEE OF THE YEAR!!" As if to prove the point that Simmons is better than Tatum...
So who do you choose?
Personally? I like Tatum's personality, and his silent but killer assassin-like ego. I loved his 1 on 1 battle against Embiid in the Hanlen's workout video, where he proclaimed, "4-1 is all I know." And the stare down on LeBron after he famously dunked and chest bumped him.
But I also love how dangerous Simmons can be in the offense. If he could ever improve his shooting form, (which seems like Julius Randle's sadly...) then he would be the perfect fit for Steven's system. His unbelievable mobility and height along with his precise court vision seems like the modern day Draymond Green.
I would choose Tatum still, but I would trade anyone not named Kyrie or Tatum for Simmons.
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I don't mean to sound like a complete homer, but there isn't anyone on the Sixers that I would trade for Tatum (straight up, forget salaries). I'm sorry, I'm just not a believer in Simmons and Embiid doesn't feel like he'll be around for many more years. I think the same goes for Brown. I might give up Horford for Embiid because I think their timeline is about the same but that's in an isolation environment... in reality Horford is better for the Celtics than Embiid.
"But I also love how dangerous Simmons can be in the offense. If he could ever improve his shooting form, (which seems like Julius Randle's sadly...) then he would be the perfect fit for Steven's system."
It's just not that easy. People can become better shooters over time, but he's starting with a broken shot. He has to learn a brand new shooting form and then master that to being "NBA ready." I'd say minimum 5 years if he works his ass completely off.
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It will be interesting to see how it shakes out but in last years playoffs it was Tatum and it wasn't close.
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I don't mean to sound like a complete homer, but there isn't anyone on the Sixers that I would trade for Tatum (straight up, forget salaries). I'm sorry, I'm just not a believer in Simmons and Embiid doesn't feel like he'll be around for many more years.
Oh, yeah definitely I agree, me neither. But I was just asking who's game seems more appealing or could have more impact. That being said, I'm not giving up on Simmons, although I sort of dislike his ego in the off-season. Brown/Tatum were working out with the greats, and Simmons was in Paris, Dubai, and Miami taking pics for his Instagram account.
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Right now it’s Simmons for me, but it ultimately depends on if he develops a jump shot. The Celtics showed how important it is that Simmons develops that part of his game. If he can’t do it, I think Tatum overtakes him pretty quickly.
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It will be interesting to see how it shakes out but in last years playoffs it was Tatum and it wasn't close.
Playoff numbers for both
16.3 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg, 4.4 tpg, 3.4 fpg, 54.1 TS%, 36.9 mpg
18.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.2 tpg, 2.6 fpg, 57.8 TS%, 35.9 mpg
Not sure what stats you were looking at, but those numbers seem fairly close as the better shooter takes care of the ball better, but is basically worse every where else.
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Right now it’s Simmons for me, but it ultimately depends on if he develops a jump shot. The Celtics showed how important it is that Simmons develops that part of his game. If he can’t do it, I think Tatum overtakes him pretty quickly.
Yeah, as of this minute I think Simmons is the better player, but I think Tatum has higher upside and will eventually become the better player, maybe as soon as next year.
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I think Tatum is the better overall player. Simmons may be more athletic but Tatum is more cerebral and that makes up fo anything he lacks in athleticism. Tatum has a huge advantage in shooting they aren’t even on the same planet. Now if Simmons learns how to shoot then he might have an edge.
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I think Simmons is a better player now and has the higher ceiling. But I think Tatum is more likely to reach his ceiling. Tatum’s ultimate upside is dependent upon improving skills that he has already demonstrated to some degree. Meanwhile, Simmons has ‘best player in the NBA’ upside that is locked behind an absent jumpshot.
Simmons is a worse shooter than early-career Rondo. Think about that.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
I suggest you go watch Playoffs versus Sixers videos if you haven't
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference. Also, Tatum's defense isn't all that much better than Simmons. It just isn't. And Tatum isn't close to being the rebounder or passer Simmons is. Never will be.
As for the playoffs, Tatum is in a better system and has better and smarter team mates than Simmons has. The Celtics knew they could pack it in and guard Simmons and Embiid tight because they knew no one else on the Sixers were good enough to win games. Sure, its a roadmap to beat the Sixers and it will force the Sixers and Simmons to adjust and develop their schemes and games but that is to be expected.
Simmons is going to get better just like Tatum will. He isn't going to just stay the same player the rest of his career. Simmons has a very similar game to that of the Greek Freak and he was a pretty awful shooter his first few years too and is still a poor outside shooter, but he is now a top 6 player in the league.
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If my life depended on a shot I ain't taking Simmons.
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Tatum. Younger, no injury history, and has a gamestyle that is proven to be successful. His shooting and scoring knack propels him ahead of Simmons.
Simmons is definitely overrated. People had no idea how to defend him (except CBS come playoffs) so he put up layup after layup because people were even somewhat concerned with him shooting. His game, as it stands now, does not translate to long-term success. Even Rondo is a monumentally better shooter than Simmons
p.s. Julius Randle is offended you compared him to Simmons
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference. Also, Tatum's defense isn't all that much better than Simmons. It just isn't. And Tatum isn't close to being the rebounder or passer Simmons is. Never will be.
As for the playoffs, Tatum is in a better system and has better and smarter team mates than Simmons has. The Celtics knew they could pack it in and guard Simmons and Embiid tight because they knew no one else on the Sixers were good enough to win games. Sure, its a roadmap to beat the Sixers and it will force the Sixers and Simmons to adjust and develop their schemes and games but that is to be expected.
Simmons is going to get better just like Tatum will. He isn't going to just stay the same player the rest of his career. Simmons has a very similar game to that of the Greek Freak and he was a pretty awful shooter his first few years too and is still a poor outside shooter, but he is now a top 6 player in the league.
That's just false. Tatum is a better scorer any person who watched both guys play will say the better scorer is Tatum. Tatum can scorer on anyone while Simmons has been shut down in games. And most NBA "experts" would tell you Simmons is a poor defender while Tatum is underrated.
As for a better system. A system's success is dependent on the skills of the team's players. Tatum and Horford were the main cogs to the system in the playoffs allowing others to thrive off what they did. Yet Simmons' weakness hinders Embid and his strength doesn't allow a PG to be a PG on his team.
It's easily Tatum over Simmons
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference. Also, Tatum's defense isn't all that much better than Simmons. It just isn't. And Tatum isn't close to being the rebounder or passer Simmons is. Never will be.
As for the playoffs, Tatum is in a better system and has better and smarter team mates than Simmons has. The Celtics knew they could pack it in and guard Simmons and Embiid tight because they knew no one else on the Sixers were good enough to win games. Sure, its a roadmap to beat the Sixers and it will force the Sixers and Simmons to adjust and develop their schemes and games but that is to be expected.
Simmons is going to get better just like Tatum will. He isn't going to just stay the same player the rest of his career. Simmons has a very similar game to that of the Greek Freak and he was a pretty awful shooter his first few years too and is still a poor outside shooter, but he is now a top 6 player in the league.
That's just false. Tatum is a better scorer any person who watched both guys play will say the better scorer is Tatum. Tatum can scorer on anyone while Simmons has been shut down in games. And most NBA "experts" would tell you Simmons is a poor defender while Tatum is underrated.
As for a better system. A system's success is dependent on the skills of the team's players. Tatum and Horford were the main cogs to the system in the playoffs allowing others to thrive off what they did. Yet Simmons' weakness hinders Embid and his strength doesn't allow a PG to be a PG on his team.
It's easily Tatum over Simmons
You need to find some new NBA "experts". Simmons is a rather good defender. He had a 101.4 defensive rating.
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Right now, it’s very close but I think I’d take Tatum. I think Simmons has more upside though. Tatum is a good bet to be a better version of Carmelo Anthony. But if Simmons learns to shoot he will be similar to Lebron James, never mind Draymond Green like the OP mentioned.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Nick, sorry but this is not your best argument.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Nick, sorry but this is not your best argument.
I think it makes complete sense. What exactly are you refuting.? The stats? The fact that bad shooters can't be great scorers? That Simmons isn't elite inside which makes up for his inability to score effeciently from outside? That Tatum is better than mediocre from inside? He shot 32% from inside 3 feet. That borders on bad. What exactly is so poor about my argument? I think Tatum is a better shooter. Much better. I think Simmons is as good a scorer if not slightly better. There's a difference between being a scorer and a shooter. I think these two players exemplify that. And, as I said earlier, I think Simmons is better right now based on last year. But I think Tatum will be better in time.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference. Also, Tatum's defense isn't all that much better than Simmons. It just isn't. And Tatum isn't close to being the rebounder or passer Simmons is. Never will be.
As for the playoffs, Tatum is in a better system and has better and smarter team mates than Simmons has. The Celtics knew they could pack it in and guard Simmons and Embiid tight because they knew no one else on the Sixers were good enough to win games. Sure, its a roadmap to beat the Sixers and it will force the Sixers and Simmons to adjust and develop their schemes and games but that is to be expected.
Simmons is going to get better just like Tatum will. He isn't going to just stay the same player the rest of his career. Simmons has a very similar game to that of the Greek Freak and he was a pretty awful shooter his first few years too and is still a poor outside shooter, but he is now a top 6 player in the league.
That's just false. Tatum is a better scorer any person who watched both guys play will say the better scorer is Tatum. Tatum can scorer on anyone while Simmons has been shut down in games. And most NBA "experts" would tell you Simmons is a poor defender while Tatum is underrated.
As for a better system. A system's success is dependent on the skills of the team's players. Tatum and Horford were the main cogs to the system in the playoffs allowing others to thrive off what they did. Yet Simmons' weakness hinders Embid and his strength doesn't allow a PG to be a PG on his team.
It's easily Tatum over Simmons
You need to find some new NBA "experts". Simmons is a rather good defender. He had a 101.4 defensive rating.
Ah no they put him on the opposing teams worst offensive player to hide him. Sometimes they move him to the Center on defense just to keep him away from ball handlers. He will play the point on offense then grab the worst guy. That's his thing
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Nick, sorry but this is not your best argument.
I think it makes complete sense. What exactly are you refuting.? The stats? The fact that bad shooters can't be great scorers? That Simmons isn't elite inside which makes up for his inability to score effeciently from outside? That Tatum is better than mediocre from inside? He shot 32% from inside 3 feet. That borders on bad. What exactly is so poor about my argument? I think Tatum is a better shooter. Much better. I think Simmons is as good a scorer if not slightly better. There's a difference between being a scorer and a shooter. I think these two players exemplify that. And, as I said earlier, I think Simmons is better right now based on last year. But I think Tatum will be better in time.
Worse TS numbers means he isn't better. And considering the doubles Embid gets opens up Simmons to get a few bunnies every game, that pads the inside fg% compared to Tatum who mostly is slashing from the 3pt line trying to finish while getting hacked.
Seriously do you watch the games?
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Those guys aren't comparable to Ben Simmons in terms of shooting though. At all. Those guys are willing to take outside shots, and are actually a threat to hit them.
Simmons, on the other hand, has a worse 3PT% than Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan. Simmons scores a bit more than DJ, is slightly more efficient from the line, but way less efficient from the field.
He's a worse FT shooter than Dwight, worse from the field, and hasn't come close to the points Dwight put up in his prime.
You wouldn't make the argument that Dwight was a better scorer than TD when they were playing against each other during the late 2000's, would you? Despite D12 shooting better from the field than TD almost ever did, TD was the better scorer, no?
Those are the guys who Simmons is comparable to on offence way more than LeBron or Giannis. Giannis and LeBron have both attempted over 100 three's multiple times, with LeBron attempting over 350 numerous times. Simmons shot 11 threes and hit 0
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Seriously do you watch the games?
I hate when people say this. I find it terribly insulting.
No, I don't watch games. Never have. Just decided to join a basketball blog and post heavily in it for 10 years just for the hell of it.
I have a difference of opinion and am giving the reasons why. I have shown everyone complete respect. I expect same same in return.
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Simmons 1 pt game was proof he is overrated especially as a scorer
I agree with nick. I think Simmons is a lot of hype
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Simmons 1 pt game was proof he is overrated especially as a scorer
I agree with nick. I think Simmons is a lot of hype
So does Tatum's 6 games of 5 points or less prove he isn't a great scorer? One game is never proof of anything for any player. Players have bad games and series. It happens. Steph Curry didn't exactly look like an MVP in two different NBA Finals. He was very un-Curry like. It happens.
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It will be interesting to see how it shakes out but in last years playoffs it was Tatum and it wasn't close.
Playoff numbers for both
16.3 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg, 4.4 tpg, 3.4 fpg, 54.1 TS%, 36.9 mpg
18.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.2 tpg, 2.6 fpg, 57.8 TS%, 35.9 mpg
Not sure what stats you were looking at, but those numbers seem fairly close as the better shooter takes care of the ball better, but is basically worse every where else.
I'm seeing Simmons per game vs Celtics in the playoffs: 14pts 8 rbs 6 ast no 3pt % 69% FT 43% FG
Tatum per game vs Sixer's in playoffs: 23pts 3 ast 3 rbs 31% 3pt 81% Ft 52% FG
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Comparing Simmons' shooting to the likes of Lebron, Giannis, and Wade is about as non-analogous as they come. While they were not known as good three point shooters, each one of them, especially Wade and Lebron, had/have proficient (if not even dangerous) midrange games, and all were at least threats from the midrange and even three point shot, too. The same simply cannot be said about Simmons, who was given the Dwight Howard treatment most of the time out on the perimeter.
http://bkref.com/tiny/YLBZ5 - one of these is not like the other.
Watching the Boston/Philly series is all you need to know about who is the better scorer. The fact that simply sagging off of Simmons 4-5 feet totally nullified him in most games of the series highlights why Tatum's versatility clearly overcomes whatever advantage Simmons has at finishing at the basket.
And this is all besides the fact that Tatum is nearly two years younger, too. Once Tatum's body matures, he'll be even more dangerous due to being more explosive and having the strength and size to finish even better at the rim, which he is already no chump at.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Comparing Simmons' shooting to the likes of Lebron, Giannis, and Wade is about as non-analogous as they come. While they were not known as good three point shooters, each one of them, especially Wade and Lebron, had/have proficient (if not even dangerous) midrange games, and all were at least threats from the midrange and even three point shot, too. The same simply cannot be said about Simmons, who was given the Dwight Howard treatment most of the time out on the perimeter.
http://bkref.com/tiny/YLBZ5 - one of these is not like the other.
Watching the Boston/Philly series is all you need to know about who is the better scorer. The fact that simply sagging off of Simmons 4-5 feet totally nullified him in most games of the series highlights why Tatum's versatility clearly overcomes whatever advantage Simmons has at finishing at the basket.
And this is all besides the fact that Tatum is nearly two years younger, too. Once Tatum's body matures, he'll be even more dangerous due to being more explosive and having the strength and size to finish even better at the rim, which he is already no chump at.
Comparing LeBron's, Giannis' and Wade's entire careers versus Simmons' rookie year is pretty non-analogous. My guess is Simmons will improve his shot as time passes much like those players did. If he doesn't it's clear who will be the better scorer as soon as next year, Tatum.
I also refuse to make my complete decision on both players based on one series. Way too small a sample size.
And, I completely agree with your last paragraph.
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I'm one of the 3 that selected Simmons.
Based on the one season I think it was pretty clear.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Nick, sorry but this is not your best argument.
I think it makes complete sense. What exactly are you refuting.? The stats? The fact that bad shooters can't be great scorers? That Simmons isn't elite inside which makes up for his inability to score effeciently from outside? That Tatum is better than mediocre from inside? He shot 32% from inside 3 feet. That borders on bad. What exactly is so poor about my argument? I think Tatum is a better shooter. Much better. I think Simmons is as good a scorer if not slightly better. There's a difference between being a scorer and a shooter. I think these two players exemplify that. And, as I said earlier, I think Simmons is better right now based on last year. But I think Tatum will be better in time.
You are mistaken. Of the shots Tatum attempted, 32% of them came from within 3 feet. Of those shots he took within 3 feet, he made 63% which is a good number and a great number for a rookie.
You're right that Simmons is an elite finisher around the rim but Tatum is also quite good at finishing, you're misreading basketball-reference.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Nick, sorry but this is not your best argument.
I think it makes complete sense. What exactly are you refuting.? The stats? The fact that bad shooters can't be great scorers? That Simmons isn't elite inside which makes up for his inability to score effeciently from outside? That Tatum is better than mediocre from inside? He shot 32% from inside 3 feet. That borders on bad. What exactly is so poor about my argument? I think Tatum is a better shooter. Much better. I think Simmons is as good a scorer if not slightly better. There's a difference between being a scorer and a shooter. I think these two players exemplify that. And, as I said earlier, I think Simmons is better right now based on last year. But I think Tatum will be better in time.
You are mistaken. Of the shots Tatum attempted, 32% of them came from within 3 feet. Of those shots he took within 3 feet, he made 63% which is a good number and a great number for a rookie.
You're right that Simmons is an elite finisher around the rim but Tatum is also quite good at finishing, you're misreading basketball-reference.
Thanks for that. TP. You're absolutely right. I read that wrong. Strangely, I knew both stat percentages we're on the same line and thought I triple checked to make sure I was reading it right. Chalk it up to a senior moment.
My point still stands though. Simmons elite inside game makes up for his poor shooting game. It is possible to be a great scorer and not be proficient at scoring from everywhere on the court.
Giannis' rookie year he was an absolutely dreadful shooter. He shot 17% from 3-10, 10.5% from 10-16, 22% from 16-23 and shot just 1.5 threes a game, though he did shoot 34.7%. The next year however, he shot only .5 threes a game at 16%.
I really see a lot of comparisons in Simmons and Giannis' games.
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
Nick, sorry but this is not your best argument.
I think it makes complete sense. What exactly are you refuting.? The stats? The fact that bad shooters can't be great scorers? That Simmons isn't elite inside which makes up for his inability to score effeciently from outside? That Tatum is better than mediocre from inside? He shot 32% from inside 3 feet. That borders on bad. What exactly is so poor about my argument? I think Tatum is a better shooter. Much better. I think Simmons is as good a scorer if not slightly better. There's a difference between being a scorer and a shooter. I think these two players exemplify that. And, as I said earlier, I think Simmons is better right now based on last year. But I think Tatum will be better in time.
You are mistaken. Of the shots Tatum attempted, 32% of them came from within 3 feet. Of those shots he took within 3 feet, he made 63% which is a good number and a great number for a rookie.
You're right that Simmons is an elite finisher around the rim but Tatum is also quite good at finishing, you're misreading basketball-reference.
Thanks for that. TP. You're absolutely right. I read that wrong. Strangely, I knew both stat percentages we're on the same line and thought I triple checked to make sure I was reading it right. Chalk it up to a senior moment.
My point still stands though. Simmons elite inside game makes up for his poor shooting game. It is possible to be a great scorer and not be proficient at scoring from everywhere on the court.
Giannis' rookie year he was an absolutely dreadful shooter. He shot 17% from 3-10, 10.5% from 10-16, 22% from 16-23 and shot just 1.5 threes a game, though he did shoot 34.7%. The next year however, he shot only .5 threes a game at 16%.
I really see a lot of comparisons in Simmons and Giannis' games.
I've done the same thing before. BBR marks those shooting %'s in a confusing way.
But I do think you're way off. Simmons only mode of scoring is attacking the basket. He's an elite finisher but he can't do anything else. It's not just that he can't shoot, he can't really post up either. Tatum has shown potential is basically every possible area of scoring. I think the conversation of who is better is close and Simmons maybe even has the edge but the question of who is the better scorer isn't close. It's Tatum.
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Tatum would win this question even on the 6ers forum.
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Seriously do you watch the games?
I hate when people say this. I find it terribly insulting.
No, I don't watch games. Never have. Just decided to join a basketball blog and post heavily in it for 10 years just for the hell of it.
I have a difference of opinion and am giving the reasons why. I have shown everyone complete respect. I expect same same in return.
It was a serious question because I watched plenty of games of both guys. Simmons' game is more Rondo than LeBron. He is quick and has great length and vision. He isn't a freak athlete who imposes his will like GA or LeBron. He takes advantage of mismatches at both ends of the court by how the 76ers use him and his flaws do hurt his team again like Rondo. Do Simmons skill equal a great player, like Rondo yes they do. Tatum is unworldly on offense to the point that it makes me shake my head. Think how he was leading the way in three % for a time as a true rookie. He also has much better defense when squared up on guys you see him slide his feet and bother shots often when a guy tries to iso him. Tatum makes guys look foolish when they try hard on both ends that's skill. Simmons tends to catch guys sleeping, that is so limited it only takes a opponent to back off 3ft to neutralize. Understanding these differences takes watching the game and not just looking at stats or numbers. So that is why I pose the question.
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Seriously do you watch the games?
I hate when people say this. I find it terribly insulting.
No, I don't watch games. Never have. Just decided to join a basketball blog and post heavily in it for 10 years just for the hell of it.
I have a difference of opinion and am giving the reasons why. I have shown everyone complete respect. I expect same same in return.
It was a serious question because I watched plenty of games of both guys. Simmons' game is more Rondo than LeBron. He is quick and has great length and vision. He isn't a freak athlete who imposes his will like GA or LeBron. He takes advantage of mismatches at both ends of the court by how the 76ers use him and his flaws do hurt his team again like Rondo. Do Simmons skill equal a great player, like Rondo yes they do. Tatum is unworldly on offense to the point that it makes me shake my head. Think how he was leading the way in three % for a time as a true rookie. He also has much better defense when squared up on guys you see him slide his feet and bother shots often when a guy tries to iso him. Tatum makes guys look foolish when they try hard on both ends that's skill. Simmons tends to catch guys sleeping, that is so limited it only takes a opponent to back off 3ft to neutralize. Understanding these differences takes watching the game and not just looking at stats or numbers. So that is why I pose the question.
Yeah i basically have the same question, i mean even a Sixer fan will admit that Tatum is better on offense, how can a Celtic fan that watched games didn't see that, it's so obvious out there to a point if you still can't see it i really don't know what words will convince you
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Tatum is better but the way 76ers use Simmons I see Simmons always being a better stat stuffer.
So for fantasy basketball I draft Simmons ahead of Tatum. In the real NBA I take Tatum.
This is unfair. Simmons is a tremendous passer and rebounder. Much better than Tatum in those areas. Those stats aren't empty stat stuffing stats. He is also an extremely good finisher, something Tatum really needs to work on. Sure, Tatum is a better shooter but Simmons is still average in his scoring efficiency.
Playoffs, Simmons got exposed while Tatum soared. I'm sure teams will be playing Simmons a lot more differently. If Simmons doesn't develop that shot he is going to be in trouble. Tatum has no flaws other than he isn't going to have a high usage rate. Tatum is basically a bigger version of Klay Thompson in that sense. Two things to also consider is whenever Tatum was at point foward he did well passing. Tatum is also a better defender than Simmons. Tatum isn't simply a better scorer he is a better overall player.
Tatum is not a better scorer than Simmons. He is a better shooter. Big difference.
Uh, what? This is a joke, right? Tatum is categorically, hands-down a better scorer than Simmons. He can score at all three levels; Simmons can only score on one level. Further, Tatum has shown that he can score on all types of defense - man, zone, pressure, etc. - and can both do it on his own (iso) or via ball movement. How exactly did Simmons do when we sagged off of him in the playoffs?
This just isn't a sensible argument that can be made by a reasonable person.
Of course it's a sensible argument. Don't be ridiculous. Tatum may be able to score more ways but Simmons is elite at scoring inside and finishing where Tatum is mediocre. His elite ability inside makes up for his lack of shooting.
Gianni's isn't a good shooter but is an elite scorer. LeBron wasn't a good shooter for many early years but was a elite scorer. Wade was similar. Just because you can't shoot from outside doesn't mean you aren't a scorer.
Tatum had a TS% of 58%. Simmons was at 56%. Not much difference there despite Tatum's great three point shooting and better FT shooting. Simmons scored a half point higher per36 taking less than 1 shot more per36. These stats show that an argument that Tatum is unquestionably a better scorer than Tatum is, to be nice, bunk.
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say.
So because Simmons scored half a point more, while taking nearly a shot more, he’s somehow better?
Then you point to inferior TS% as some sort of reason Simmons is better? He was the better finisher last season, you’re right. He was Shaq around the rim, and better than LeBron’s career mark (ergo, unlikely to sustain). Tatum is polished in every offensive facet, he just needs to keep improving. Simmons obviously needs drastic fundamental changes.
Playoff numbers bear some mention as well, when Tatum emerged as one of our go-to weapons while Simmons faded.
Not sure about the Giannis comp either. Guess we can say Tatum is KD.
Tatum is a better scorer, nothing you have said backs up your claim he isn’t.
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It's a joke to say Simmons is more Rondo than Lebron. In year one Rondo scored 6pts on 41% shooting. Simmons scored 16pts on 55% shooting which is incredibly efficient regardless of where he was shooting from. James shot 41% his rookie year. So in year one Simmons was far more efficient than both of them. And this isn't really part of this particular debate but Simmons averaged far more assists and rebounds as a rookie than Lebron. It's ridiculous how some posters think every player on the Celtics will keep improving and all the players on other teams are finished products at 20 years old.
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It's a joke to say Simmons is more Rondo than Lebron. In year one Rondo scored 6pts on 41% shooting. Simmons scored 16pts on 55% shooting which is incredibly efficient regardless of where he was shooting from. James shot 41% his rookie year. So in year one Simmons was far more efficient than both of them. And this isn't really part of this particular debate but Simmons averaged far more assists and rebounds as a rookie than Lebron. It's ridiculous how some posters think every player on the Celtics will keep improving and all the players on other teams are finished products at 20 years old.
When all you can do on offense is inside 5 feet you will get a high percentage and more rebounds,that just shows how limited a player he is
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It's a joke to say Simmons is more Rondo than Lebron. In year one Rondo scored 6pts on 41% shooting. Simmons scored 16pts on 55% shooting which is incredibly efficient regardless of where he was shooting from. James shot 41% his rookie year. So in year one Simmons was far more efficient than both of them. And this isn't really part of this particular debate but Simmons averaged far more assists and rebounds as a rookie than Lebron. It's ridiculous how some posters think every player on the Celtics will keep improving and all the players on other teams are finished products at 20 years old.
You technically should be comparing Rondo and LeBron's second years. Simmons has been two years in the league.
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It's a joke to say Simmons is more Rondo than Lebron. In year one Rondo scored 6pts on 41% shooting. Simmons scored 16pts on 55% shooting which is incredibly efficient regardless of where he was shooting from. James shot 41% his rookie year. So in year one Simmons was far more efficient than both of them. And this isn't really part of this particular debate but Simmons averaged far more assists and rebounds as a rookie than Lebron. It's ridiculous how some posters think every player on the Celtics will keep improving and all the players on other teams are finished products at 20 years old.
When all you can do on offense is inside 5 feet you will get a high percentage and more rebounds,that just shows how limited a player he is
Had he been a Celtic the narrative would have been
although everyone knows he can only do offence inside 5 feet he still gets a high percentage which shows how good he is at penetrating and when he develops his range he will be unstoppable
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It's a joke to say Simmons is more Rondo than Lebron. In year one Rondo scored 6pts on 41% shooting. Simmons scored 16pts on 55% shooting which is incredibly efficient regardless of where he was shooting from. James shot 41% his rookie year. So in year one Simmons was far more efficient than both of them. And this isn't really part of this particular debate but Simmons averaged far more assists and rebounds as a rookie than Lebron. It's ridiculous how some posters think every player on the Celtics will keep improving and all the players on other teams are finished products at 20 years old.
When all you can do on offense is inside 5 feet you will get a high percentage and more rebounds,that just shows how limited a player he is
Had he been a Celtic the narrative would have been
although everyone knows he can only do offence inside 5 feet he still gets a high percentage which shows how good he is at penetrating and when he develops his range he will be unstoppable
No way. Celtics fans would never make excuses for a poor-shooting point guard based on other aspects of his game.
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Better scorer, Simmons vs Tatum?
Pro Simmons data- More PPG, higher overall FG%, less% of buckets were assisted, and teams can have a hard time keeping him away from the rim where he scores with ease.
Pro Tatum data- He can score from all 3 levels, unlike Simmons who only scores from inside 3 feet. Higher TS%, higher PPS, PPG is almost identical weighted per 36 minutes, Tatum can do a lot more different things and with less shots and lower usage, didn't get the same opportunity.
Though there's evidence for Simmons, I'd take Tatum. The more advanced stats and the eye test definitely support Tatum, while the counting stats and rim dominance support Simmons.
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It's a joke to say Simmons is more Rondo than Lebron. In year one Rondo scored 6pts on 41% shooting. Simmons scored 16pts on 55% shooting which is incredibly efficient regardless of where he was shooting from. James shot 41% his rookie year. So in year one Simmons was far more efficient than both of them. And this isn't really part of this particular debate but Simmons averaged far more assists and rebounds as a rookie than Lebron. It's ridiculous how some posters think every player on the Celtics will keep improving and all the players on other teams are finished products at 20 years old.
When all you can do on offense is inside 5 feet you will get a high percentage and more rebounds,that just shows how limited a player he is
Had he been a Celtic the narrative would have been
although everyone knows he can only do offence inside 5 feet he still gets a high percentage which shows how good he is at penetrating and when he develops his range he will be unstoppable
No way. Celtics fans would never make excuses for a poor-shooting point guard based on other aspects of his game.
his name rhymes with hondo :)
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It will be interesting to see how it shakes out but in last years playoffs it was Tatum and it wasn't close.
Playoff numbers for both
16.3 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg, 4.4 tpg, 3.4 fpg, 54.1 TS%, 36.9 mpg
18.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.2 tpg, 2.6 fpg, 57.8 TS%, 35.9 mpg
Not sure what stats you were looking at, but those numbers seem fairly close as the better shooter takes care of the ball better, but is basically worse every where else.
I'm seeing Simmons per game vs Celtics in the playoffs: 14pts 8 rbs 6 ast no 3pt % 69% FT 43% FG
Tatum per game vs Sixer's in playoffs: 23pts 3 ast 3 rbs 31% 3pt 81% Ft 52% FG
a series is not the playoffs though. The Celtics are a bad matchup for the Simmons and the inverse is also true. What I posted was their entire playoffs, obviously Tatum played more games (and the extra series), but that is absolutely a better gauge than a 5 game series and using the whole season was also a better gauge, and in that the numbers were similar to the playoff numbers.
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Last season, Simmons probably had the edge. Simmons is probably the better all-around player and may be for his whole career.
But, I believe Tatum has a superstar ceiling on his offensive abilities and I don't think Simmons has a superstar ceiling on anything he does, just a very solid all-around game. I doubt he's the next LBJ but you never know.
Who would I take? In the long run Tatum, I find his game to be more entertaining and I think he has a higher ceiling. Just my opinion.
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IMO Tatum by the end of the year should be our second best option on offense. I think the kid has star written all over him. Dare I say, Kevin Durant-ish if he gets the shot opportunities.
As for Simmons, besides not liking him very much, I remember all those easy shots he missed in the
Playoffs from 10-15 feet away. He struggles with shooting the ball too much. He'll have a good career and get many triple doubles. But, he ain't Magic Johnson.
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IMO Tatum by the end of the year should be our second best option on offense. I think the kid has star written all over him. Dare I say, Kevin Durant-ish if he gets the shot opportunities.
As for Simmons, besides not liking him very much, I remember all those easy shots he missed in the
Playoffs from 10-15 feet away. He struggles with shooting the ball too much. He'll have a good career and get many triple doubles. But, he ain't Magic Johnson.
I'm not quite so sure about Tatum being second option at any point this year. He's talented no doubt, but Kyrie and Hayward are one and two I think, although Hayward may need some time to get into real game shape. It is certainly possible that Tatum could surpass one or both of them, but I think people forget just how good Hayward is.
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It's a joke to say Simmons is more Rondo than Lebron. In year one Rondo scored 6pts on 41% shooting. Simmons scored 16pts on 55% shooting which is incredibly efficient regardless of where he was shooting from. James shot 41% his rookie year. So in year one Simmons was far more efficient than both of them. And this isn't really part of this particular debate but Simmons averaged far more assists and rebounds as a rookie than Lebron. It's ridiculous how some posters think every player on the Celtics will keep improving and all the players on other teams are finished products at 20 years old.
When all you can do on offense is inside 5 feet you will get a high percentage and more rebounds,that just shows how limited a player he is
Had he been a Celtic the narrative would have been
although everyone knows he can only do offence inside 5 feet he still gets a high percentage which shows how good he is at penetrating and when he develops his range he will be unstoppable
No way. Celtics fans would never make excuses for a poor-shooting point guard based on other aspects of his game.
his name rhymes with hondo :)
smarto????
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Tatum is one year and eight months younger. This is all going to be about long term mental approach and improvement. We are about two weeks away from having a very good idea about how much each guy did with their offseason.
Simmons did more last year by a significant margin, but I'll bet on Tatum in the long term. Let's take another look after the first week of October.
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I wanted to answer Tatum for some time now, but I felt the need to provide some deep insight, some thoughtful argument and acute observation in my comment. 8)
(https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26169291_10156023101968659_5187205491392885826_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=289a431c29fe97cb06d1d0fe4c21e2ac&oe=5C20AD55)
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Why do we care who is better.....???
The real question is do you like tatum or Simmons with irwing Hayward rozier smart and brown around him.? I think everyone will choose tatum..
If the question was jordan or drexler it would be obvious.. but times and the games has changed...
And the simple question for every celtics fan is...
Was pierce better before or after the garnett allen arrival.. obviously before.. but wouldn't you prefer to have those guys 2 or 3 years earlier? That would limit pierces touches
So lets say i want the right pick even he could do more for a team like the kings.... tatum for me
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It's a joke to say Simmons is more Rondo than Lebron. In year one Rondo scored 6pts on 41% shooting. Simmons scored 16pts on 55% shooting which is incredibly efficient regardless of where he was shooting from. James shot 41% his rookie year. So in year one Simmons was far more efficient than both of them. And this isn't really part of this particular debate but Simmons averaged far more assists and rebounds as a rookie than Lebron. It's ridiculous how some posters think every player on the Celtics will keep improving and all the players on other teams are finished products at 20 years old.
When all you can do on offense is inside 5 feet you will get a high percentage and more rebounds,that just shows how limited a player he is
Had he been a Celtic the narrative would have been
although everyone knows he can only do offence inside 5 feet he still gets a high percentage which shows how good he is at penetrating and when he develops his range he will be unstoppable
No way. Celtics fans would never make excuses for a poor-shooting point guard based on other aspects of his game.
Well i was the one calling Danny to trade Rondo before the deadline because he is hurting the team so much with his inability to shoot and ball hug
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Why do we care who is better..... ???
The real question is do you like tatum or Simmons with irwing Hayward rozier smart and brown around him.? I think everyone will choose tatum..
If the question was jordan or drexler it would be obvious.. but times and the games has changed...
And the simple question for every celtics fan is...
Was pierce better before or after the garnett allen arrival.. obviously before.. but wouldn't you prefer to have those guys 2 or 3 years earlier? That would limit pierces touches
So lets say i want the right pick even he could do more for a team like the kings.... tatum for me
Personally, I don't, but I find Philly fans obnoxious and hope some of them read this thread.
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Tatum's ceiling for his game is Kobe. He may never be the ultra aggressive Mamba assassin, but his execution when it counts is already reliable. I would even say I'm taking Tatum over healthy Kyrie for a last second shot to win a game.
Simmons obviously has more to grow, but it is only in his jump shot, IMO. He has a very unhealthy arrogance.....the self-centered kind, not the team leader kind. If he gets a jump shot going, he can be like 80-85% of what Lebron has done in the league with that skill set. I just see him getting more in his own way than Tatum, who seems immensely more coachable and a better teammate.
I'm taking Tatum now, and I think 3-5 years from now, the answer won't change.
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They are different types of players. Simmons will be a top player in this league, probably the next great point forward after LeBron. The question as to how good he will be depends on of he figures out with what hand to shoot a jump shot with. Green goggles aside, Simmons has the size, athleticism, and ball ha doing ability to be a top 5 player in this league.
All that being said, Tatum has his own skill set that can lead him as an elite player on this league. His scoring game is already elite. His main question is how his body fills out. He's going to be one of the most lethal scorers in the league when he physically matures.
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Tatum's ceiling for his game is Kobe. He may never be the ultra aggressive Mamba assassin, but his execution when it counts is already reliable. I would even say I'm taking Tatum over healthy Kyrie for a last second shot to win a game.
Simmons obviously has more to grow, but it is only in his jump shot, IMO. He has a very unhealthy arrogance.....the self-centered kind, not the team leader kind. If he gets a jump shot going, he can be like 80-85% of what Lebron has done in the league with that skill set. I just see him getting more in his own way than Tatum, who seems immensely more coachable and a better teammate.
I'm taking Tatum now, and I think 3-5 years from now, the answer won't change.
I'd say his ceiling is Durant and, for my money, Durant > Kobe.
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Tatum's ceiling for his game is Kobe. He may never be the ultra aggressive Mamba assassin, but his execution when it counts is already reliable. I would even say I'm taking Tatum over healthy Kyrie for a last second shot to win a game.
Simmons obviously has more to grow, but it is only in his jump shot, IMO. He has a very unhealthy arrogance.....the self-centered kind, not the team leader kind. If he gets a jump shot going, he can be like 80-85% of what Lebron has done in the league with that skill set. I just see him getting more in his own way than Tatum, who seems immensely more coachable and a better teammate.
I'm taking Tatum now, and I think 3-5 years from now, the answer won't change.
I'd say his ceiling is Durant and, for my money, Durant > Kobe.
Kobe with a deadly 3 point game! And longer ... so basically Durant
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I like consistency in terms of what a player delivers and the confidence of that player. Ben Simmons is that Player. He knows who he is in that offense, Jayson's confidence is fragile and with deduction in playing time with Hayward coming back, the 'Green Light' a player needs will not be there. Outside of that Ben Simmons is not getting pulled. Simmons is stronger and has more stamina.
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I like consistency in terms of what a player delivers and the confidence of that player. Ben Simmons is that Player. He knows who he is in that offense, Jayson's confidence is fragile and with deduction in playing time with Hayward coming back, the 'Green Light' a player needs will not be there. Outside of that Ben Simmons is not getting pulled. Simmons is stronger and has more stamina.
i simply have to ask at this point...would you please provide any evidence at all that the bolded above has any basis in fact or reality? armchair psychology is not sufficient to make a post informative or insightful.
i saw tatum take and make numerous shots in close games last season. that does not seem to indicate a confidence that is fragile.
may i suggest you think your posts through a bit more and find supporting evidence/data to support what you write. i think your posts would be a lot stronger if you did these things.
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I like consistency in terms of what a player delivers and the confidence of that player. Ben Simmons is that Player. He knows who he is in that offense, Jayson's confidence is fragile and with deduction in playing time with Hayward coming back, the 'Green Light' a player needs will not be there. Outside of that Ben Simmons is not getting pulled. Simmons is stronger and has more stamina.
It's weird that you cite consistency as a factor influencing who you prefer, as Tatum put in a more consistent playoff run (i.e., when the pressure is significantly higher).
Not sure how you think JT's confidence is fragile. At all.
And the difference in strength and stamina can pretty easily be attributed to the 21 month age gap between the two.
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As much as I love Tatum I had to vote with my head, not my heart. Simmons only just at this point. It could change it is so even depending on their development over the next two years.
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Z które natrafi), jakiej o tak dalece prawidowo cz, nie byo w dziwaku. TUDZIE jednak impuls na wspomaganie niepodlegych demiurgów w ich niepowszednich strona z recenzjami gier (http://www.recenzjegier.xyz) koncepcjach to nie owo tego co IP mienione w charakterze AAA, owo zawsze lepsze to ni figa. Hodowanie prywatnej buki naprowadza nieco frajd w Tamagotchi za podobnie nie istnieje za bardzo zawie. Teje wypranie nie istnieje bast naszych awantur z achami, skoro naley jeszcze rozwiesi sotnego ubiór na suszarce lub kolejny raz uatwi sobie obecno tudzie posuy si sporód suszarki bezwiednej. Udane pranie (pachnce, milutkie, cieplutkie...) owo gwarancja dobrego samopoczucia tu przy hardware cda (http://www.recenzjegier.xyz) Podczas gdy na powóczysty kula ziemska dopucioby, sklepy, szkolenie czy domki mieszcz si w brystolach, natomiast w wyposaeniu nie moe zawie koszyczków a do spania, kaloryferów, zasobników z karm bd kuwet ze wirkiem. Nareszcie wic stopie bdzie kolosalna. O w jakim stopniu jest sporód kim, materia przekonujca. Sporadycznie mam warto zajrzec (http://www.grywideo.xyz) szans odtwarza takie detal w recenzjach, tymczasem Fe owszem nie zdobyoby poszerzonej wojny marketingowej i bez ryzyka niektórzy nasi czytelnicy nawet pod adnym pozorem nie syszeli o tym tytule.
TP
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Z które natrafi), jakiej o tak dalece prawidowo cz, nie byo w dziwaku. TUDZIE jednak impuls na wspomaganie niepodlegych demiurgów w ich niepowszednich strona z recenzjami gier (http://www.recenzjegier.xyz) koncepcjach to nie owo tego co IP mienione w charakterze AAA, owo zawsze lepsze to ni figa. Hodowanie prywatnej buki naprowadza nieco frajd w Tamagotchi za podobnie nie istnieje za bardzo zawie. Teje wypranie nie istnieje bast naszych awantur z achami, skoro naley jeszcze rozwiesi sotnego ubiór na suszarce lub kolejny raz uatwi sobie obecno tudzie posuy si sporód suszarki bezwiednej. Udane pranie (pachnce, milutkie, cieplutkie...) owo gwarancja dobrego samopoczucia tu przy hardware cda (http://www.recenzjegier.xyz) Podczas gdy na powóczysty kula ziemska dopucioby, sklepy, szkolenie czy domki mieszcz si w brystolach, natomiast w wyposaeniu nie moe zawie koszyczków a do spania, kaloryferów, zasobników z karm bd kuwet ze wirkiem. Nareszcie wic stopie bdzie kolosalna. O w jakim stopniu jest sporód kim, materia przekonujca. Sporadycznie mam warto zajrzec (http://www.grywideo.xyz) szans odtwarza takie detal w recenzjach, tymczasem Fe owszem nie zdobyoby poszerzonej wojny marketingowej i bez ryzyka niektórzy nasi czytelnicy nawet pod adnym pozorem nie syszeli o tym tytule.
TP
Hahaha, this had me laughing
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2017 Pre Season Tatum
2017 Regular Season Tatum
2018 Regular Season Simmons
2018 Post Season Tatum
2018 Pre Season Simmons
2018 Regular Season ????
2019 Regular Season ????
2019 Post season ????
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It will be interesting to see how it shakes out but in last years playoffs it was Tatum and it wasn't close.
Playoff numbers for both
16.3 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg, 4.4 tpg, 3.4 fpg, 54.1 TS%, 36.9 mpg
18.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.2 tpg, 2.6 fpg, 57.8 TS%, 35.9 mpg
Not sure what stats you were looking at, but those numbers seem fairly close as the better shooter takes care of the ball better, but is basically worse every where else.
Another great example od how the stats don’t tell the whole story. I remember Simmons being benched and T.J taking over his role and finishing games due to Ben’s lack of shooting and playmaking in midst of defense sagging off of him.
Tatum is younger and a better scorer but Simmons is a poor mans LBJ(which is still an all star). No one can really tell who will have a better career, but it’s 1-0 Team Tatum right now.
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I like consistency in terms of what a player delivers and the confidence of that player. Ben Simmons is that Player. He knows who he is in that offense, Jayson's confidence is fragile and with deduction in playing time with Hayward coming back, the 'Green Light' a player needs will not be there. Outside of that Ben Simmons is not getting pulled. Simmons is stronger and has more stamina.
i simply have to ask at this point...would you please provide any evidence at all that the bolded above has any basis in fact or reality? armchair psychology is not sufficient to make a post informative or insightful.
i saw tatum take and make numerous shots in close games last season. that does not seem to indicate a confidence that is fragile.
may i suggest you think your posts through a bit more and find supporting evidence/data to support what you write. i think your posts would be a lot stronger if you did these things.
Yeah, this is a strange criticism to me. Tatum hit the rookie wall mid season last year but rebounded and finished the season strong. He had bad games in the playoffs and always turned it around to play great the next night. If there's anything about Tatum I feel like I can bank on, it's his confidence.
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While techincally a rookie, if people want to talk strength. Tatum was in college while Simmons was undergoing an NBA training regimen.
Over the long run, I think tatum will be better. he went toe to toe with Lebron in the ECF nearly dragging us to the finals. Not sure how some can say he has fragile confidence. Kid was a 19 year old rookie. Celtics shut down simmons in the playoffs. all they realized was to keep him off the fast break and lay off him forcing him to shoot. and he did nothing.
I still an skeptical if a team built around essentially a bigger Rondo and a back to the basket big can be a contender in todays NBA, but we will see. Maybe simmons will develop a shot.
But I feel like there is alot more questions about how Simmons needs to improve his game than tatum.
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While techincally a rookie, if people want to talk strength. Tatum was in college while Simmons was undergoing an NBA training regimen.
Over the long run, I think tatum will be better. he went toe to toe with Lebron in the ECF nearly dragging us to the finals. Not sure how some can say he has fragile confidence. Kid was a 19 year old rookie. Celtics shut down simmons in the playoffs. all they realized was to keep him off the fast break and lay off him forcing him to shoot. and he did nothing.
I still an skeptical if a team built around essentially a bigger Rondo and a back to the basket big can be a contender in todays NBA, but we will see. Maybe simmons will develop a shot.
But I feel like there is alot more questions about how Simmons needs to improve his game than tatum.
did nothing except average 14.5/8/6.5 and really game 2 was historically awful, but the rest of the series he was about what he was during the regular season.
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It's been an tumultuous season... Somewhere, along the horizon, 76ers fans crowd alongside each other like a pack of murderous crows. Seeking solace, they warm themselves with whispers of, "rookie of the year, ROOKIE OF THE YEAR, ROOKIEE OF THE YEAR!!" As if to prove the point that Simmons is better than Tatum...
So who do you choose?
Personally? I like Tatum's personality, and his silent but killer assassin-like ego. I loved his 1 on 1 battle against Embiid in the Hanlen's workout video, where he proclaimed, "4-1 is all I know." And the stare down on LeBron after he famously dunked and chest bumped him.
But I also love how dangerous Simmons can be in the offense. If he could ever improve his shooting form, (which seems like Julius Randle's sadly...) then he would be the perfect fit for Steven's system. His unbelievable mobility and height along with his precise court vision seems like the modern day Draymond Green.
I would choose Tatum still, but I would trade anyone not named Kyrie or Tatum for Simmons.
I voted Tatum. IMHO, there’s only so far these “who’s better” debates get you, though. And they’re both very good at basketball.
After I voted I checked ESPN’s Real Plus/Minus. No one stat gives you a judgment on a player, but I pay attention to that one because it’s looking at the whole contribution that a player makes, including all the stuff that we don’t know how to quantify- not just assists or shooting or whatever.
Here’s what I found:
Tatum was 33rd in the league, with a composite of +2.92 points per possession.
Simmons was 35th in the league, with a composite of +2.89 points per possession.
The difference, in other words, was statistical noise.
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Quote
While techincally a rookie, if people want to talk strength. Tatum was in college while Simmons was undergoing an NBA training regimen.
This is the reason why guys who get hurt should not have a chance to earn rookie of the year the following year. Too bad, life happens...
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Quote
While techincally a rookie, if people want to talk strength. Tatum was in college while Simmons was undergoing an NBA training regimen.
This is the reason why guys who get hurt should not have a chance to earn rookie of the year the following year. Too bad, life happens...
This
He agreed to an NBA deal and has been in the NBA system. It's not fair to the real rookies.