If can only choose one to keep after this season - Stevens or Irving (poll)

[PhoSita]

All I know is I liked Doc a lot more than I like Brad.

And it seems players respect him more.

Yeah, I mean, Isaiah Thomas, Evan Turner, Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, Amir Johnson, etc.


So many players who clearly didn't respect Brad and didn't play hard for him.

They were playing to prove themselves.  Every single one of them was a player who felt they were being undervalued.

Rondo clearly didn't respect him.

Brad just doesn't have that kind of cache.  Stars dismiss him.

Maybe the issue is with the stars who don't respect their coaches.  Crazy thought, I know.


As IP suggested, I kinda doubt that you're going to see Kyrie being super respectful and trust-the-process if you put him on a different team with a different coach.  Kyrie trusts his own judgment too much.  He takes his cues from LeBron in that regard.



I'm willing to believe that the Celts could bring in a different coach who is more of a personality-manager / motivator, a la Doc, and get better results in that department.

The issue is that you could easily end up with a team that has fewer locker room issues but is much worse at the x's and o's (e.g. ATO plays) and can't adapt a gameplan in a tough post-season series.  Those are areas where Brad excels.


Sure, we'd love to have a coach who is great at managing superstar personalities and also has  a great offensive and defensive system to implement, is wonderful at developing and integrating young players, draws up amazing ATO plays, is gifted at motivating the team during rough patches, etc.

But tell me which coach out there who isn't currently employed by an NBA team is going to be able to check off every one of those boxes and immediately be better than Brad Stevens.

You tell me that the next Greg Popovich is out there just waiting for a chance to coach an NBA team, OK fine.  But seems to me that more often than not when teams get rid of an established, successful coach, the next guy isn't any better, or at least has just as many glaring flaws as the guy that preceded him.

[Donoghus]

Coaches are much easier to replace than players.

Bad to mediocre coaches, sure.

Above average to very good coaches?

I'm not so sure about that.

I think what it takes to win a championship in the NBA skews much more towards the talent than the coaching.

[gouki88]

Coaches are much easier to replace than players.

Bad to mediocre coaches, sure.

Above average to very good coaches?

I'm not so sure about that.

I think what it takes to win a championship in the NBA skews much more towards the talent than the coaching.

Completely agree

[KGs Knee]

All I know is I liked Doc a lot more than I like Brad.

And it seems players respect him more.

Yeah, I mean, Isaiah Thomas, Evan Turner, Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, Amir Johnson, etc.


So many players who clearly didn't respect Brad and didn't play hard for him.

They were playing to prove themselves.  Every single one of them was a player who felt they were being undervalued.

Rondo clearly didn't respect him.

Brad just doesn't have that kind of cache.  Stars dismiss him.

Maybe the issue is with the stars who don't respect their coaches.  Crazy thought, I know.


As IP suggested, I kinda doubt that you're going to see Kyrie being super respectful and trust-the-process if you put him on a different team with a different coach.  Kyrie trusts his own judgment too much.  He takes his cues from LeBron in that regard.



I'm willing to believe that the Celts could bring in a different coach who is more of a personality-manager / motivator, a la Doc, and get better results in that department.

The issue is that you could easily end up with a team that has fewer locker room issues but is much worse at the x's and o's (e.g. ATO plays) and can't adapt a gameplan in a tough post-season series.  Those are areas where Brad excels.


Sure, we'd love to have a coach who is great at managing superstar personalities and also has  a great offensive and defensive system to implement, is wonderful at developing and integrating young players, draws up amazing ATO plays, is gifted at motivating the team during rough patches, etc.

But tell me which coach out there who isn't currently employed by an NBA team is going to be able to check off every one of those boxes and immediately be better than Brad Stevens.

You tell me that the next Greg Popovich is out there just waiting for a chance to coach an NBA team, OK fine.  But seems to me that more often than not when teams get rid of an established, successful coach, the next guy isn't any better, or at least has just as many glaring flaws as the guy that preceded him.

Doc is that guy.  I think with the right type of smooth talking by Kyrie (who is on record as supporting him big time) and Danny, they could convince him to return.

I know the chance is slim, if not none, but I'd pay the price to get him back.  A coach like him is invaluable. 

Given that isn't really a likely option, I still would prefer someone who commands more respect, even at the expense of 'x's & o's".  Stars will figure it out as long as they have someone to guide them in a singular direction (the specific direction matters less).

[RPGenerate]

Where's the "I hope they set aside their differences and make the Celtics into something that we can be proud of" option? It's like some people here want our team and fanbase to break apart into factions.

[RPGenerate]

All I know is I liked Doc a lot more than I like Brad.

And it seems players respect him more.

Yeah, I mean, Isaiah Thomas, Evan Turner, Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, Amir Johnson, etc.


So many players who clearly didn't respect Brad and didn't play hard for him.

They were playing to prove themselves.  Every single one of them was a player who felt they were being undervalued.

Rondo clearly didn't respect him.

Brad just doesn't have that kind of cache.  Stars dismiss him.

Maybe the issue is with the stars who don't respect their coaches.  Crazy thought, I know.


As IP suggested, I kinda doubt that you're going to see Kyrie being super respectful and trust-the-process if you put him on a different team with a different coach.  Kyrie trusts his own judgment too much.  He takes his cues from LeBron in that regard.



I'm willing to believe that the Celts could bring in a different coach who is more of a personality-manager / motivator, a la Doc, and get better results in that department.

The issue is that you could easily end up with a team that has fewer locker room issues but is much worse at the x's and o's (e.g. ATO plays) and can't adapt a gameplan in a tough post-season series.  Those are areas where Brad excels.


Sure, we'd love to have a coach who is great at managing superstar personalities and also has  a great offensive and defensive system to implement, is wonderful at developing and integrating young players, draws up amazing ATO plays, is gifted at motivating the team during rough patches, etc.

But tell me which coach out there who isn't currently employed by an NBA team is going to be able to check off every one of those boxes and immediately be better than Brad Stevens.

You tell me that the next Greg Popovich is out there just waiting for a chance to coach an NBA team, OK fine.  But seems to me that more often than not when teams get rid of an established, successful coach, the next guy isn't any better, or at least has just as many glaring flaws as the guy that preceded him.

Doc is that guy.  I think with the right type of smooth talking by Kyrie (who is on record as supporting him big time) and Danny, they could convince him to return.

I know the chance is slim, if not none, but I'd pay the price to get him back.  A coach like him is invaluable.

The funny thing is that this take was mysteriously absent when Doc coached one of the biggest underachievers in the NBA for 5 years. But I guess making the playoffs this year as the Warriors footstool made everything go away, huh?

[jambr380]

If we lose Brad, we would still likely acquire AD and be totally in contention. I trust Danny to find the right coach for this group...even if he isn't quite as good as Brad.

If we lose Kyrie, we likely try to build with Tatum and Brown as our core pieces and use our mid-late draft picks as wisely as possible. It might be a fun team to watch, but we would be relegated to being a mid-level team with the hopes that our young players become stars.

As much as I like Brad, and as long as Kyrie isn't the one actively forcing him out (this is an unlikely hypothetical afterall), the first option is the only option. We've been building a good thing, I hate to go backwards when we can have an AD/Kyrie led team (with still very good pieces around them).

[tstorey_97]

To rewrite the question for a second.

Do you build the team around Irving?

And, since we aren't the people building it? Will Ainge do so?

Ainge hasn't been following Irving since he was at St. Patrick High School in New Jersey dreaming of ways to get him on the Celtics.

The reason for my speculation is Red Auerbach never built around a guard. The rim is 10 feet off the court.

I know the NBA is different now, but,  "you can't coach size."

If our GM had a choice? Irving stays if he can "bring another player."

If Ainge had to choose as is implied in the question?

He would "keep Stevens." Auerbach would never fire a coach if some diva demanded it. (not that that sort of thing ever happened with Red's teams).

Stevens is on board with defense and that is what has always worked.

I wish Irving would stay and be a "team guy" but, he's not. I assure you, wherever he goes, he won't like the coach and he'll always be looking at other options.

No team, coach or situation is going to make Kyrie Irving happy ever. Until he learns that? He can flop around all he wants.

I'm making this up?

2009/10 Montclair Kimberley High School freshman/sophomore starting Point Guard

Transfer

2011/12 St. Patrick High School Junior/Senior starting Point Guard

Never going to sit still.

[LilRip]

While you need elite players to win a ring, what DA and CBS share is something special. You need a strong relationship in management as well to build a winning culture. Voted for CBS

Had the situations been reversed though, with CBS being a new coach from the Cavs and wanting Irving out who has been a Celtics lifer, I would致e voted for Kyrie.

[PhoSita]

Doc is that guy.

Your opinion of Doc is way higher than mine.  He's a good coach, but I don't think he's on that level.

[PhoSita]

Coaches are much easier to replace than players.

Bad to mediocre coaches, sure.

Above average to very good coaches?

I'm not so sure about that.

I think what it takes to win a championship in the NBA skews much more towards the talent than the coaching.

Sure but are we winning a championship with Kyrie?

Maybe, if we can find a LeBron type guy to be the lead talent on the team as well as the primary personality and leader in the locker room.

Is Anthony Davis that guy?  I'm not sure.



In a vacuum, I'll take the Brad Stevens experience over the Kyrie experience.


If it's "Kyrie + an alpha superstar whose talent is unquestionably greater than Kyrie's OR Brad Stevens" then I'd lean toward the talent.

[Celtics4ever]

I for one, don't think Kyrie is as good as he thinks he is.... All this wanting the ball at the end of games but misses shots when games are on the line as much as the next guy.   Amazing talent to be certain, but is he an Alpha Dog?   Not in my eyes.

[Who]

Coaches are much easier to replace than players.

Bad to mediocre coaches, sure.

Above average to very good coaches?

I'm not so sure about that.

Every year there are above average to excellent coaches available in the summer time.

They are easy to replace.

[gouki88]

To rewrite the question for a second.

Do you build the team around Irving?

And, since we aren't the people building it? Will Ainge do so?

Ainge hasn't been following Irving since he was at St. Patrick High School in New Jersey dreaming of ways to get him on the Celtics.

The reason for my speculation is Red Auerbach never built around a guard. The rim is 10 feet off the court.

I know the NBA is different now, but,  "you can't coach size."

If our GM had a choice? Irving stays if he can "bring another player."

If Ainge had to choose as is implied in the question?

He would "keep Stevens." Auerbach would never fire a coach if some diva demanded it. (not that that sort of thing ever happened with Red's teams).

Stevens is on board with defense and that is what has always worked.

I wish Irving would stay and be a "team guy" but, he's not. I assure you, wherever he goes, he won't like the coach and he'll always be looking at other options.

No team, coach or situation is going to make Kyrie Irving happy ever. Until he learns that? He can flop around all he wants.

I'm making this up?

2009/10 Montclair Kimberley High School freshman/sophomore starting Point Guard

Transfer

2011/12 St. Patrick High School Junior/Senior starting Point Guard

Never going to sit still.

LOL. This is truly hilarious.

Using his high school transfer as an indicator of character is so funny to me. It's almost as if St. Patrick had actual basketball talent, including 2 future NBA players in MKG and Bembry, whereas Montclair had none.

Glad to see we have a poster with such an insight into Kyrie Irving's personality

[gouki88]

I for one, don't think Kyrie is as good as he thinks he is.... All this wanting the ball at the end of games but misses shots when games are on the line as much as the next guy.   Amazing talent to be certain, but is he an Alpha Dog?   Not in my eyes.

If he wasn't statistically the second best clutch scorer in the whole league this argument would hold up a bit more.